| Press for Fall of 1906 in ghodstoo |
Movement
Private message from Russia to Turkey:
You know, Jamie, now that you mention it, there have been three guys
outside my office with eyeholes cut out of newspapers recently....and
they're wearing black trenchcoats in 80* weather.
Geez, Pitt, if you're really tired, Jamie and I can submit your stuff.
After all, WE hired the guy to go out and all night and keep you up in
the first place!
Mark "Dick Tracy" Fassio
Criminology & History Major, 1979
Private message from England to Germany:
Oh! So *that's* why that 'dry cleaning van' has been parked outside my
house and following me around! And I thought Pitt was just really good at
guessing my orders....
>Sorry for being late. One of my investigators fell ill yesterday afternoon
>and I had to go out on a surveillance myself on short notice.
>Unfortunately, I had no opportunity to get in orders before going and,
>since this was a mobile surv and this turkey is a night owl, I was on the
>go all night. I just got home a little while ago and I'm putting in orders
>now. I hope they make sense but I'm too beat to really tell.
>
>-Pitt
Private message from Russia to France:
Hi Guys
Just got done coloring in the map, and am in a "lull" between
transportation crises, so figured I'd drop a line. I'll tell you:
scheduling 60 VIP academicians, generals, and industry gurus for this
3-day love-in has not been a bed of roses, but at least it keeps me busy
(yeah...) Anyway, here's my game views:
Germany. I doubt that he expected the French hit. I think his fatigue
just led him to the "move of least resistance" this turn. And it made
sense. He covers, sees which way the west and east winds blow, and
bides his time until E and R die off. Not a great move, but not a bad
one. And he gets a center from Nwy, killing me.
THIS MOVE CONFIRMS MY SUSPICIONS of his pro-east leanings. Now would've
been the perfect time to unlimber his fleets and send them eastward, as
well as prep an army for convoy to the weak north Turkish flank. But
instead he sends them in a _westward_ orientation, holds in the center,
leaving SIL and PRU inviolable, and generally threatening to King Jean.
*We made the right call, Napoleon IV!!!!!*
Italy. A shame he lost two to Edi; that could've been Birsan's death
knell. Heck, he could've died before ME :>) wishful thinking. I have
a way to kill Edi as I die, which will be mentioned shortly.
Turkey. Nice stab. He probably expected Italy to be firm in Vie and
Tri, thus really gutting Edi. Nonetheless, Edi can't take anything back
from Hohn. I imagine T/I commmunications will be hot and heavy in the
next few days. That's both a boon (kill Edi) and a threat (westward
ho?), although one easily circumvented by an F/T, John.
Austria. Doubtless Edi will be pulling out all the stops to get Italy
reoriented, stabbing Hohn, etc etc...of course, Italy can't get *at*
Hohn, due to wise positioning by the Perry Mason of the West. I'd be
curious if Edi writes anything to you guys about his position. Maybe I
can offer "commentary" on his moves in a nice turnabout, hmmm? To
misquote Alfred E newman, "What? Me gloat?"
E/F/R. Ah, yessss.....now to us, and what should be done. There are
several ways to skin this cat, and I think E/F need to make the lion's
share of the decisions, with me as the witless accomplice.
Option 1: Faz to Munich and stays alive.
Boh-Mun (Tyo and Bur S), Mar S Bur, Pic-Bel (Ech S), Nth-Hol. This may
or may not work, depending if he does Bel-Bur, Ber S Mun. England does
Hel S Nth-Hol, or Hel-Kie.
Option 2: Faz, ever so loyal, sacrifices self for the Grand Alliance.
Bur-Mun, Boh (and Tyo) S Bur-Mun, Mar-Bur, other moves the same
Option 3: Eastward Ho! Death to Edi! Here we work with Italy to
effect:
Apu-Tri (Apu C), Ven S; Tyo-Vie (Boh S), or vice versa. This assumes
either a quiet Hohn (mutual holds everywhere) or a greedy Hohn (assuming
we're hitting Edi and thus capitalizing on simultaneous hits).
GKJ, your options, given that France is allowing you a home survival
center, seem to be either support for Nth-Hol (if John takes that
route), or a spoiler, hitting Kie (or outguessing him and going to Den,
merhaps).
For me, the options depend on French goodwill and logical tactical
positioning. I mean, I would LOVE to live and be in either VIE or MUN,
but if greater circumstances dictate otherwise, then let's discuss it
and see how I can die with maximum benefit to you both.
I throw myself in prostration before Napoleon IV and beg for the return
of an ancient fiefdom somewhere as compensation from the rapacious Hun.
How doth my friends see this board?
Tsar faz
>
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I will be out of town from tonight until Sunday night, as I will be
> attending a friend's wedding. I will be answering very short
> correspondence this morning and afternoon, but I will be quite busy
> preparing to go away on my trip and making sure I get some work done
> before I leave. Jim, I'd really appreciate a one day extension, so
> that the turn processes on Friday, June 13.
Friday, the 13th?? Are you sure?? Just because it could be such
a "crucial" turn for some of you, I'll do it!
>
> P.S.: Congrats to Edi on the retaking of Vienna and Trieste!
>
I'll just bet you do....
Jim
Private message from Russia to Turkey:
Thanks, Hohn; that's all I can ask. It just makes delicious sense to
consider it, and it's very do-able. See what the others say; I'm not
going anywhere..
Mark
>----------
>From: USIN Diplomacy Judge[SMTP:[email protected]]
>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 1997 2:26 PM
>To: Fassio, M. MAJ SOC
>Subject: Diplomacy notice: ghodstoo
>
> News about USIN can be found at
> http://kleiman.indianapolis.in.us/usin.htm
>
> Game creation has been disabled. USIN has had some
> reliability problems, so until it is settled down...
>
> All unmoderated games will be removed.
> Judge keeper is [email protected].
> Judge address is [email protected]
>
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ghodstoo':
>
>Mark,
>
>Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take it under advisement, and broach
>the subject with the others.
>
>Hohn
>
>
Private message from Turkey to England:
Jamie,
> Nwe Frontrunner Witch,
> We each had our secrets. I hope you won't mind my not having revealed mine....
Not at all.
> >Sure, I'm always interested in hearing about options.
> >Let me know.
>
> I didn't, sorry.
No worries.
> I kind of gave you a clue, but then John specifically asked me not to tell,
> and in fact suggested that I lie and tell you that he had resisted my
> overtures. I struck a compromise of silence.
> Good timing, anyway. And a huge stab. And good cover--John told me a couple
> of days ago that at first he was worried that an I/T alliance might spoil
> his personal plot, but that then he had determined that "Austria and Turkey
> are thick as thieves". Well, no honor among thieves, they say!
> Witch still hanging on
Thanks for the compliments. I've been planning this for quite some
time. Edi going down to 4 was as good a time as any, I thought. I'm
just glad everything went off so well.
Let me know if I can be of assistance to you.
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Russia:
Mark,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take it under advisement, and broach
the subject with the others.
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
> I think you can now see why I could not be entirely open with you.
No problem at all. You graciously did not support VEN-TRI, and that's
good enough for me. The "miswritten" order regarding TYS also was a
particularly neat stroke of genius. You have my gratitude and
anticipated cooperation. Thanks!
> I do
> believe the current situation affords us more opportunities than before.
> How do you read it?
I think you're absolutely right. We're sitting well, both of us. I'm
amenable to whatever reasonable proposal you may have.
Let me know how you want to cooperate.
Hohn
Private message from Russia to Turkey:
Hi Hohn
Hope this gets to you before your wedding departure.
Nice stab; all things in their own time, I guess.
Listen, I know you will probably just play it safe and support SER this
turn, but please consider helping F/I/R eliminate Edi in conjunction
with my own demise. Done with max effort, Tri, Vie and possibly Bud can
go this season. I mean, you're gaining two off of Edi this turn anyway,
and probably expected stouter Italian defense up north. This might be
the only 'real' cooperation we can do this game for mutual benefit.
Either way, my congrats on a good game. It'll be F/T with a G spoiler
to throw his diminishing weight around.
Tsar faz
Private message from France to Turkey:
Sultan H:
I think you can now see why I could not be entirely open with you. I do
believe the current situation affords us more opportunities than before.
How do you read it?
John, France
Maybe now I'll get some mail once in a while. You never know what bored
Frenchman will do.
Napolean IV
Private message from Russia to Italy:
The Tsar agrees that we should delay the moves until Friday the 13th.
After all, the East doesn't write to me anyway, so this is an extra day
of life for my nation. Plus it gives me an extra day to spin my
threads of malice around the neck of two Tuetons who done me wrong!
Who knows, we may even have special edition of "Interview with a
Vampire, Part II" in honor of the recent rurn of events. (I *thought* I
heard a knife balde in the background during that interview.) Given
that Pitt is always out on "night surveillance," this merely confirms
the theme of my show!
Cal, too bad you lost two to BirTeflon. Having said that, however, his
position is akin to Custer at the Big Horn: under siege from three
directions. Edi, if you're truly the man I've come to grudgingly
admire, you will produce yet another Houdini-like escape from the jaws
of your tormentors. But I say in reflection: Would it not be poetic
justice to have someone else die before (or concurrent with) me? Ah
well, wishful thinking....
Great game, guys. I'm out next season, so I'll withhold mushy goodbyes
until then.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Italy to Germany:
Well, now that France, Turkey and Russia have stabbed me
all on the same turn, and France has stabbed YOU, perhaps
we have more reason to talk, y'figure?
I'm willing to do my best to suicide against Turkey, but I
may need some help simply surviving. Anything you can offer?
Cal
Private message from Master to Russia:
You know, in the wake of you finally stabbing (lying to) Cal as well,
shall we take a tally?????? (there are six, count 'em, six players
to lie to, how many have you lied to now??????)
Perhaps just Jean de France is untouched by the Cossack sword. I
can count all the others ;-)
Jim-Bob
Private message from France to Italy:
You ask, why did I screw you so badly? I did not intend to. I wrote you
early yesterday and I checked mail all day right until the deadline, then
again after Germany was late. I got no reply from you. If I was cryptic
or you had to have my support, why didn't you write? We could have at
least talked about it. As is, my support for Boh-Mun did not accomplish
anything, so I wish we had.
Private message from Italy to Russia:
Okay, I should have expected Hohn to lie to me and it was
hardly a surprise that France screwed me around, but I'm very
surprised that you did the same thing. What did I do to you
that you wouldn't let me know that you and France were going
to leave me on my own against Austria? I can understand
wanting to gain one more centre to stick around, but a
simple warning would have been nice.
Enquiring minds want to know! :)
Cal
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> > Even if I felt safe enough to move west now, I would need to get
> > another centre or two from Austria to have the forces to do so.
> > Catch-22.
>
> You could do that with land forces while your navy starts going west?
Could have, but not anymore, "buddy"... :)
> I've been corresponding with Pitt and Edi a good amount. Not a lot
> from John.
Methinx this not be true.
> I think Edi is still with me. Pitt claims friendship, but I am
> dubious.
Bet he gets friendlier... grin.
> OK, so I'm tapping Albania and Serbia, and moving into position.
Well, the LAST half of this sentence was true.
I guess this was a case of "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me
twice, shame on me". Of course, I never expected to have France
AND Russia turn on me as well, but I shouldn't have believed you
the second time.
Ah well, I guess it's suicide time. Make me an offer.
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> FYI, I was subjected to some extremely heavy diplomacy from the AT cabal
> last night. Their phone calls came almost upon one another. They expect
> me to attack you. Turkey promises to attack Austria later. Yeah, right.
> They are joined at the hip.
Well, maybe not joined so tightly anymore, but it doesn't look as if it
is going to do ME any good. Sigh.
> Tactics: Fleet, yes, army, can't do it. Plan accordingly.
Well, your vagueness on the army matter has pretty much screwed me
for this game. Between your non-support and the Russian "treachery",
I've lost all the gains I had made over the last two years. You
now have to face a Turkey which is going to have at least another four
Austrian centres virtually unopposed. You'll be involved with
Germany and Hohn will be able to do as he pleases. Can you please
explain why you screwed me so badly? I thought you understood that
I was your best buffer against the East?
I guess I now have to decide who to suicide against... sigh. Maybe
I can give England my centres. :)
Cal
Private message from Russia to France:
Guys
Thanks to Jamie for his usual thorough analysis. In retrospect, I see I
was a little cavalier with F Nth and the Germanic fleet threat.
Actually, I figured that, given a German loss of Mun and.or Hol and Bel,
Pitt would be reduced and more determined to defend the Reich, vice
playing Pirate of the High Seas. Again, though, that's probably not
reassuring news or views for the Frenchman....what do I know?
>
>>Option 1: Faz to Munich and stays alive.
>>Boh-Mun (Tyo and Bur S), Mar S Bur, Pic-Bel (Ech S), Nth-Hol. This may
>>or may not work, depending if he does Bel-Bur, Ber S Mun. England does
>>Hel S Nth-Hol, or Hel-Kie.
>
>This option is pretty good, actually. I thought it through wrongly before.
>
** If it looks good, I'm willing to do it; never hurts to survive!
>
>>Option 2: Faz, ever so loyal, sacrifices self for the Grand Alliance.
>>Bur-Mun, Boh (and Tyo) S Bur-Mun, Mar-Bur, other moves the same
>
>This option is best for France. Faz should investigate his alternatives
>with Italy and see whether he's really willing to make the sacrifice.
** Ditto here. if Cal is busy with other options (like, regaining his
centers), then perhaps this is my curtain call...
>
>Here France could either try for Bel *and* Mun, with Mun assured, or he
>could settle for Mun and a really good position, by ordering Pic S Mar-Bur,
>while Eng S Nth and my fleet tries some trick or other (I have an idea).
>
>A wild possibility is to take Bel, Hol, and Mun. This is a *lock*, if Faz
>sacrifices, but Germany will enter Nth. He is quite likely to get Edinburgh
>and Liverpool the next year, but my fleet takes Kiel (I break even as
>France enters London, France loses one--this is 1907 I'm talking about--and
>Russia is already dead). As I said, a very wild position. Germany must
>scramble around with six units, unable to defend the Fatherland but running
>rampant in Scand and England. When Germany gains, he has no place to build.
>Mopping up is messy. I probably don't make it to witness the endgame, but
>taking a German home center would be fun.
>
** Messy in both the short- and long-term, and probably not up
Napoleon's alley, wot?
>
>>Option 3: Eastward Ho! Death to Edi! Here we work with Italy to
>>effect:
>>Apu-Tri (Apu C), Ven S; Tyo-Vie (Boh S), or vice versa. This assumes
>>either a quiet Hohn (mutual holds everywhere) or a greedy Hohn (assuming
>>we're hitting Edi and thus capitalizing on simultaneous hits).
>
>If Hohn goes for this, it looks quite good.
>
>I feel quite safe now, thanks. It is very clear that my fleet helps the
>Empereur a lot, much more than a new unit of his own could do.
>I've outlined my view of my fleet's options. I actually think it will not
>be very helpful this move. My guess for Pitt's approach is that he will
>give up on Belgium, try to defend Munich with all forces (thus, Bel-Bur,
>Ber S Mun), lash out at Nth (Nwy S Ska-Nth), and order Hol-Kie, Den-Kie to
>defend all three of those centers against a sneaky British fleet. I am
>inclined either to order Hel S Nth, leaving the English F Eng to support an
>attack on Bel, or, well, a trick, which I reserve to a later note.
>
>>For me, the options depend on French goodwill and logical tactical
>>positioning. I mean, I would LOVE to live and be in either VIE or MUN,
>>but if greater circumstances dictate otherwise, then let's discuss it
>>and see how I can die with maximum benefit to you both.
>
>Good show, old chap.
>
>Have a chat with Brother Calvin and His Most Excellent Sultan. Shall I
>broach the topic with him (with Hohn)?
** i have discussed the possibility of an Edi FeastFest with Sultan
Hohn. he said he'll "keep it under advisement" and see what the others
thought. he is on-line now and may be amenable. The question is as
England mentions: how quick does France want Austria to die?
Am in the midst of a crisis; scheduled a guy for LaGuardia pickup, and
he's at newark. Must go.
Just tell me what France and England see is best for me, and I'll do it.
>
Tsar Faz
Private message from England to France:
John,
Here's my analysis.
1. You pretty much have to defend Nth, because Germany has little to do
with the two fleets but attack Nth. You could take Hol and cede control of
Nth, but I think this would work out badly. Control of Nth is more
important than the extra center.
2. So if you want to make sure you get Bel, you have to attack with Pic and
Bur, both. (And either Hel-Hol, or Hel S Nth, Eng S Bur-Bel.)
3. Surely Germany will support Munich from Berlin. My bet is that he will
also order Bel-Bur, because he is in deep trouble if he loses Munich. So
you might like to gamble, attacking Bel only with two units, saving F Hel
for something else. But, Hol-Kie, Den-Kie looks good, rendering F Hel
pretty much useless.
4. A pretty nice move would be this. My F Hel S Nth. F Eng S Pic-Bel,
Pic-Bel, Bur-Ruh!, Mar-Bur (probably bouncing A Bel). Unless I miss my
guess, the German A Hol won't bother supporting A Bel--then A Bel is
destroyed with no retreat, and you are in Ruhr. Mildly risky, since you
*might* not take Belgium. But even in that case, you would be in Ruhr, and
though Germany would get a build there's a good chance that Den-Kie, so he
couldn't use the build anyway. The real problem would be that you wouldn't
have the new fleet to bring into play.
Assuming no trouble in the Med., and assuming you could get into Ruhr and
also take Bel, I think you would solidly have the upper hand in the mess
with Germany. My F Hel, a new fleet for you swinging up over England, your
A Tyo, and an army penetrated to Ruhr, these are each a small advantage,
and they add up to a decisive one. I think you would have little trouble
adding Hol next year, and likely Munich the following year. At that point
you would clearly have a big advantage, and the Mediterranean powers might
start getting worried, or maybe *you* would have to start seriously
worrying about Turkey's chances of winning, I haven't looked into that. But
as long as you can feel safe with that single fleet in the Med., I am
pretty sure you would continue to make slow progress against Germany.
The safe approach leaves you in Bel, Bur, Tyo. (Germany would be in Mun,
Ruh, Hol, but not in Kie.) But then you have to guess to make future
progress, and (I think) any real attacking move leaves you open to losing
some ground (Bel, or control of Bur). This is probably ok, you probably
still have the upper hand, *if* you feel you have all the time in the
world, or if you think Turkey will bother the Germans from behind.
(Unlikely, I think. I am not pointing out, you'll notice, that you were
utterly wrong about Turkey and Austria holding together!)
I was thinking that Russia could not realistically be kept alive. I now
think maybe his idea of Eng S Pic-Bel, Bur&Tyo S Boh-Mun (Hel S Nth) might
be reasonable. But the problems I mentioned in the press to fr are
worrying, and if you do get Bel and not Mun, you are not in a great
position without an army in Ruhr.
The move I outlined against Austria doesn't help you or me at all, but it
is so aesthetically appealing I just couldn't keep my mouth shut.
Let me know what you want me to do.
And the best of luck,
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to Russia:
Comrades,
Glad to see the Tsar in good spirits.
I think there is one glaring flaw in the Tsar's analysis. France must
defend the North Sea. Germany has nothing to do with the two fleets (Ska &
Nwy) but Nwy S Ska-Nth. In point of fact, we could swipe both Bel and Hol
for the French, if Napolean is willing to give up his North Sea position --
but I must say I do not recommend this.
I will have my own full analysis ready later, if you want it. Here now a
few critical remarks on Faz's. (Upon re-reading, I see they turned out
somewhat lengthy....)
>Option 1: Faz to Munich and stays alive.
>Boh-Mun (Tyo and Bur S), Mar S Bur, Pic-Bel (Ech S), Nth-Hol. This may
>or may not work, depending if he does Bel-Bur, Ber S Mun. England does
>Hel S Nth-Hol, or Hel-Kie.
This option is pretty good, actually. I thought it through wrongly before.
The problem is that the French F Nth must not move. Even so, the move snags
either Munich or Belgium, leaving Germany even. If he protects Munich by A
Bel-Bur, then the move is turns out essentially the same as (a reasonable
variant of) Option 3, with France in Burg and owning Bel, Germany stuck
defending with a big cluster of five armies against France's superior
position (but smaller land contingent). Here I think France has a *small*
advantage. If Germany defends Bel, he loses Munich, which is very bad for
him. But the drawback is that France gets no build, and he really does need
to build a new fleet and start it heading around England for Nwg.
>Option 2: Faz, ever so loyal, sacrifices self for the Grand Alliance.
>Bur-Mun, Boh (and Tyo) S Bur-Mun, Mar-Bur, other moves the same
This option is best for France. Faz should investigate his alternatives
with Italy and see whether he's really willing to make the sacrifice.
Here France could either try for Bel *and* Mun, with Mun assured, or he
could settle for Mun and a really good position, by ordering Pic S Mar-Bur,
while Eng S Nth and my fleet tries some trick or other (I have an idea).
A wild possibility is to take Bel, Hol, and Mun. This is a *lock*, if Faz
sacrifices, but Germany will enter Nth. He is quite likely to get Edinburgh
and Liverpool the next year, but my fleet takes Kiel (I break even as
France enters London, France loses one--this is 1907 I'm talking about--and
Russia is already dead). As I said, a very wild position. Germany must
scramble around with six units, unable to defend the Fatherland but running
rampant in Scand and England. When Germany gains, he has no place to build.
Mopping up is messy. I probably don't make it to witness the endgame, but
taking a German home center would be fun.
>Option 3: Eastward Ho! Death to Edi! Here we work with Italy to
>effect:
>Apu-Tri (Apu C), Ven S; Tyo-Vie (Boh S), or vice versa. This assumes
>either a quiet Hohn (mutual holds everywhere) or a greedy Hohn (assuming
>we're hitting Edi and thus capitalizing on simultaneous hits).
If Hohn goes for this, it looks quite good. (The "Apu C" ought to read "Adr
C", of course.) Hohn could order the spectacular move, Rum-Bud!, Ser S
Rum-Bud!, Gre-Alb! These moves are almost unbelievable, since the natural
expectation is that Turkey will sit on the new centers and certainly not
order his units *out* of them; but in fact the move is utterly safe, since
(a) the Austrian fleet *cannot* get out of Alb, so Turkey holds Gre, and
(b) every possible Austrian support is cut, so Ser is safe. It leaves
Austria with a mere *two* centers. Maybe Austria orders Tri-Tyo, but this
seems quite unlikely, and in that case he loses Budapest.
The problem is that it leaves Germany relatively unmolested. But France
still has good chances, even without the Russian help. I don't know.
John/Nap, think about it. Do you want to see Austria collapse so quickly?
(I suspect not. Edi is a goner. Making his death slow tends to slow down
the development of any difficulties Napoleon might have in the
Mediterranean.)
>GKJ, your options, given that France is allowing you a home survival
>center, seem to be either support for Nth-Hol (if John takes that
>route), or a spoiler, hitting Kie (or outguessing him and going to Den,
>merhaps).
I feel quite safe now, thanks. It is very clear that my fleet helps the
Empereur a lot, much more than a new unit of his own could do.
I've outlined my view of my fleet's options. I actually think it will not
be very helpful this move. My guess for Pitt's approach is that he will
give up on Belgium, try to defend Munich with all forces (thus, Bel-Bur,
Ber S Mun), lash out at Nth (Nwy S Ska-Nth), and order Hol-Kie, Den-Kie to
defend all three of those centers against a sneaky British fleet. I am
inclined either to order Hel S Nth, leaving the English F Eng to support an
attack on Bel, or, well, a trick, which I reserve to a later note.
>For me, the options depend on French goodwill and logical tactical
>positioning. I mean, I would LOVE to live and be in either VIE or MUN,
>but if greater circumstances dictate otherwise, then let's discuss it
>and see how I can die with maximum benefit to you both.
Good show, old chap.
Have a chat with Brother Calvin and His Most Excellent Sultan. Shall I
broach the topic with him (with Hohn)?
And let's see what His Other Excellency Bonaparte thinks...?
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Russia to France:
Guys
Don't know if Cal sent similar things to you, but this one kind of
stung. I've already sent my mushy reply; any chance you guys can help
rationalize and assuage the Doge's sense of abandonment? We really need
him happy and with us.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Hi Cal
Well, first off, my moving to MUN shouldn't have been a big killer to
you. I mean, had I done what I intended (moving to GAL), I would've
thrown a fist at air and moved into something Edi was moving out of. I
couldn't have helped you, in retrospect, moving to GAL.
France offered support and then wavered. I figured, well...if I move to
GAL I know the probable result. But if France is telling the truth, I
at least have a chance to hurt Pitt. Now, having France leave you in
the lurch was chintzy, but he made the call that he wanted to try it --
Big Picture vs Germany.
I apologize for not telling you anything. E/F both thought, for
interests of Absolute Secrecy -- to avoid even a casual slip -- that we
should all be mum on this. I can see where you feel wronged, but at the
time, we figured you'd be able to hold your ground. And again, Cal,
honestly: my going to GAL wouldn't have changed a thing regarding moves
vs you, and I didn't know if France was being truthful or not. I just
wanted to do something for me this turn, is all. I'm absolutely crushed
that it cost you two centers. I would think France is, too.
Now, the "brighter" side: Hohn is seriously discussing simultaneous
crushing of Edi. France is also interested. One option would be
Apu-Tri (Adr C), Ven S, with either France or me hitting Vie (and the
other in support). if that is done (and if Hohn moves, versus
supports-in-place) Edi stands to lose Tri and Vie again. One for sure.
Cal, I'm on the way out. No matter what option E/F (and you) decide on,
it's doubtful I'll get the center. I'm willing to do anything you want
-- I think my entire game behavior towards you has shown utterly loyalty
and doing what I've said, has it not? In that vein, I'm willing to help
you with this last season's breath of life I have left. But I also want
to maximize pain on A and/or G, and that means we (you, me and John)
need to figure out the best option.
I hope you forgive me for my one season of independent forays into
Germany, and I hope you see France's point of view. I'm more than
willing to tell him any move that re-maximizes your position.
Does this help at all?
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to Master:
Jim, Jim,
OK, in the Demo Game I've lied to everyone -- I admit that. here I
wouldn't call it "lying" to Cal. Yes, i didn't go where he thought, but
that's not really lying. France should be the 'heavy' here. I just
figured Cal could hold off Edi. Ooops.
Y'know, his letter kind of hurt. Here I spend all my life in BOH, for
God's sake, supporting him hither and yon. The ONE turn I do something
on my own, it's a federal case. Sheesh. There oughta be a law...
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to England:
GKJ,
Well, I can understand where he's coming from. I do feel badly about
it, though. My reply to him is below.
Hi Cal
Well, first off, my moving to MUN shouldn't have been a big killer to
you. I mean, had I done what I intended (moving to GAL), I would've
thrown a fist at air and moved into something Edi was moving out of. I
couldn't have helped you, in retrospect, moving to GAL.
France offered support and then wavered. I figured, well...if I move to
GAL I know the probable result. But if France is telling the truth, I
at least have a chance to hurt Pitt. Now, having France leave you in
the lurch was chintzy, but he made the call that he wanted to try it --
Big Picture vs Germany.
I apologize for not telling you anything. We thought, for
interests of Absolute Secrecy -- to avoid even a casual slip -- that we
should all be mum on this. I can see where you feel wronged, but at the
time, we figured you'd be able to hold your ground. And again, Cal,
honestly: my going to GAL wouldn't have changed a thing regarding moves
vs you, and I didn't know if France was being truthful or not. I just
wanted to do something for me this turn, is all. I'm absolutely crushed
that it cost you two centers. I would think France is, too.
Now, the "brighter" side: Hohn is seriously discussing simultaneous
crushing of Edi. France is also interested. One option would be
Apu-Tri (Adr C), Ven S, with either France or me hitting Vie (and the
other in support). if that is done (and if Hohn moves, versus
supports-in-place) Edi stands to lose Tri and Vie again. One for sure.
Cal, I'm on the way out. No matter what option E/F (and you) decide on,
it's doubtful I'll get the center. I'm willing to do anything you want
-- I think my entire game behavior towards you has shown utterly loyalty
and doing what I've said, has it not? In that vein, I'm willing to help
you with this last season's breath of life I have left. But I also want
to maximize pain on A and/or G, and that means we (you, me and John)
need to figure out the best option.
I hope you forgive me for my one season of independent forays into
Germany, and I hope you see France's point of view. I'm more than
willing to tell him any move that re-maximizes your position.
Does this help at all?
Tsar Faz
To top it off, the GM sends me a humor-gram saying that I've now lied to
every adjacent neighbor! Makes me feel reeeeal good. I need a drink.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as England to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> (on France)
> >Funny, as he's the one who messed me up the biggest...
>
> I didn't realize that. He'd promised to help with his A Tyo, huh? And that
> 'miscommunication' over who was going to Ionian Sea....
Actually, it was his secrecy over the whole thing. I thought A Tyo &
A Boh would be helping me to hang on to Vie & Tri. I didn't know they
were leaving me out to dry like that. As for the "miscommunication",
that was legit. France notified me that he wanted my F Tun to go to
Ion, but he did so at the last minute and I never saw the message.
> Well, he decided to go for it, and naturally he wasn't going to tell
> anyone. You know how *that* is.
In terms of retaining me as an ally, it was a mistake. If I'd been in
on the secret, I could have moved accordingly.
> Here's what I meant. First, in my experience he's been the most trustworthy
> player. Sure, he'll stab if there's a lot in it for him, everyone will. But
> he tends to think friends are worth something. (I am worth something to
> him--witness his Wal-Eng when he could just as well have ordered Wal-Lon --
> and you are too.) Second, it is strongly in his interest to have you
> blocking Turkey, keeping his part of the Med quiet. He's totally committed
> against Germany now, sliding into Rome or the like isn't going to help him.
> (I guess he might see it as a way to 'teleport' that backward fleet, taking
> Rome and building up north, then just disbanding the Med. fleet when he's
> kicked out. But I don't figure he'll think it's worth the aggravation it
> would cause him later.)
I'll take that into consideration. Thanks.
> >I guess I do have to decide whether to trust someone (ie F or T) or
> >simply suicide. I'll see who makes me an offer first... :)
> I can't honestly say I'm too disappointed to see that the rest of the
> woeful RIAE 'alliance' is crashing and burning along with me.
It certainly is ironic, isn't it?
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
Shit, I knew I'd screw up onec this game. This was intended for
England obviously. Sorry.
> Message sent to France:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Italy to France in 'ghodstoo':
>
> > Message from [email protected] as England to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> >
> > (on France)
> > >Funny, as he's the one who messed me up the biggest...
> >
> > I didn't realize that. He'd promised to help with his A Tyo, huh? And that
> > 'miscommunication' over who was going to Ionian Sea....
>
> Actually, it was his secrecy over the whole thing. I thought A Tyo &
> A Boh would be helping me to hang on to Vie & Tri. I didn't know they
> were leaving me out to dry like that. As for the "miscommunication",
> that was legit. France notified me that he wanted my F Tun to go to
> Ion, but he did so at the last minute and I never saw the message.
>
> > Well, he decided to go for it, and naturally he wasn't going to tell
> > anyone. You know how *that* is.
>
> In terms of retaining me as an ally, it was a mistake. If I'd been in
> on the secret, I could have moved accordingly.
>
> > Here's what I meant. First, in my experience he's been the most trustworthy
> > player. Sure, he'll stab if there's a lot in it for him, everyone will. But
> > he tends to think friends are worth something. (I am worth something to
> > him--witness his Wal-Eng when he could just as well have ordered Wal-Lon --
> > and you are too.) Second, it is strongly in his interest to have you
> > blocking Turkey, keeping his part of the Med quiet. He's totally committed
> > against Germany now, sliding into Rome or the like isn't going to help him.
> > (I guess he might see it as a way to 'teleport' that backward fleet, taking
> > Rome and building up north, then just disbanding the Med. fleet when he's
> > kicked out. But I don't figure he'll think it's worth the aggravation it
> > would cause him later.)
>
> I'll take that into consideration. Thanks.
>
> > >I guess I do have to decide whether to trust someone (ie F or T) or
> > >simply suicide. I'll see who makes me an offer first... :)
>
> > I can't honestly say I'm too disappointed to see that the rest of the
> > woeful RIAE 'alliance' is crashing and burning along with me.
>
> It certainly is ironic, isn't it?
>
> Cal
>
> End of message.
>
> Movement orders for Fall of 1906. (ghodstoo.022)
>
> Italy: Army Venice, No Order Processed.
> Italy: Fleet Tunis, No Order Processed.
> Italy: Fleet Adriatic Sea, No Order Processed.
> Italy: Fleet Naples, No Order Processed.
> Italy: Army Apulia, No Order Processed.
>
> Orders not received for all units. If complete orders are not
> received by Fri Jun 13 1997 23:30:00 EST, you will be considered late.
> You will be considered abandoned if nothing is received by
> Fri Jul 25 1997 14:30:00 EST.
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as England to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> (on France)
> >Funny, as he's the one who messed me up the biggest...
>
> I didn't realize that. He'd promised to help with his A Tyo, huh? And that
> 'miscommunication' over who was going to Ionian Sea....
Actually, it was his secrecy over the whole thing. I thought A Tyo &
A Boh would be helping me to hang on to Vie & Tri. I didn't know they
were leaving me out to dry like that. As for the "miscommunication",
that was legit. France notified me that he wanted my F Tun to go to
Ion, but he did so at the last minute and I never saw the message.
> Well, he decided to go for it, and naturally he wasn't going to tell
> anyone. You know how *that* is.
In terms of retaining me as an ally, it was a mistake. If I'd been in
on the secret, I could have moved accordingly.
> Here's what I meant. First, in my experience he's been the most trustworthy
> player. Sure, he'll stab if there's a lot in it for him, everyone will. But
> he tends to think friends are worth something. (I am worth something to
> him--witness his Wal-Eng when he could just as well have ordered Wal-Lon --
> and you are too.) Second, it is strongly in his interest to have you
> blocking Turkey, keeping his part of the Med quiet. He's totally committed
> against Germany now, sliding into Rome or the like isn't going to help him.
> (I guess he might see it as a way to 'teleport' that backward fleet, taking
> Rome and building up north, then just disbanding the Med. fleet when he's
> kicked out. But I don't figure he'll think it's worth the aggravation it
> would cause him later.)
I'll take that into consideration. Thanks.
> >I guess I do have to decide whether to trust someone (ie F or T) or
> >simply suicide. I'll see who makes me an offer first... :)
> I can't honestly say I'm too disappointed to see that the rest of the
> woeful RIAE 'alliance' is crashing and burning along with me.
It certainly is ironic, isn't it?
Cal
Private message from England to Russia:
>GKJ,
>Well, I can understand where he's coming from.
Yeah, a small country in the Alps, ruled by horses they say, called
'Hippocracy', that's where he's coming from. (There's nothing like a really
good pun.)
>I do feel badly about it, though.
Oh good, I bet that will be a great comfort to him -- I know how much
happier it made me in days of yore!
:-) :-) :-)
>To top it off, the GM sends me a humor-gram saying that I've now lied to
>every adjacent neighbor! Makes me feel reeeeal good.
I think it was probably a compliment, knowing Jim. (How about those
non-adjacent neighbors? Lie to them next.)
> I need a drink.
A black Russian might be appropriate, doncha think? Let's order two.
We'll drink to the crashing and burning of the great AIRE 'alliance',
Cheers!
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to Austria:
Jim,
>> I am becoming conscious of the approach of the Summer vacation
>> season. Be sure to let me know of your lack of access times in
>> advance.
I'll be out of town the week *following* July 4th. Probably some other week
too, later, but let's see whether my participation is really necessary
(ahem).
Doge Cal:
>I'll be around until the two weeks after Labour Day
Oh yeah? You're pretty sure about that?
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to Italy:
(on France)
>Funny, as he's the one who messed me up the biggest...
I didn't realize that. He'd promised to help with his A Tyo, huh? And that
'miscommunication' over who was going to Ionian Sea....
Well, he decided to go for it, and naturally he wasn't going to tell
anyone. You know how *that* is.
Here's what I meant. First, in my experience he's been the most trustworthy
player. Sure, he'll stab if there's a lot in it for him, everyone will. But
he tends to think friends are worth something. (I am worth something to
him--witness his Wal-Eng when he could just as well have ordered Wal-Lon --
and you are too.) Second, it is strongly in his interest to have you
blocking Turkey, keeping his part of the Med quiet. He's totally committed
against Germany now, sliding into Rome or the like isn't going to help him.
(I guess he might see it as a way to 'teleport' that backward fleet, taking
Rome and building up north, then just disbanding the Med. fleet when he's
kicked out. But I don't figure he'll think it's worth the aggravation it
would cause him later.)
>I guess I do have to decide whether to trust someone (ie F or T) or
>simply suicide. I'll see who makes me an offer first... :)
I'm surprised you aren't thinking of settling things with Edi. Seems like
the obvious approach. If you two re-ally, it's your seven plus a little
French help against TEN Turkish centers. Whereas joining with Turkey leaves
you the weak partner by a long shot.
Well, I certainly will leave you to figure how best to deal with Edi.
And I can't honestly say I'm too disappointed to see that the rest of the
woeful RIAE 'alliance' is crashing and burning along with me.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Italy to England:
> Message from [email protected] as England to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> It's not pleasant suddenly and without forewarning to be left to fight
> alone, is it? Shocking that Tsar Faz would do such a thing! Why, nothing at
> all in his history would suggest it.... Believe me, I feel your pain.
>
> (Think how long I've been waiting to say that.)
I hear you.
> But seriously, if you want to know whom you can trust: you can believe that
> M. Jean "Napoleon IV" Bark. will be on your side in any Mediterranean
> battle, for years to come. He would most like to keep all the action
> contained in the eastern part of the pond, while he fights furiously with
> his new enemy.
Funny, as he's the one who messed me up the biggest...
I guess I do have to decide whether to trust someone (ie F or T) or
simply suicide. I'll see who makes me an offer first... :)
Cal
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Cal,
>----------
>
>It was the secrecy that screwed me. If I'd known I'd be left on my
>own, I could have tried to accomplish something more defensive.
** Yes, I know it was. I think France was concerned you and Turkey
would strike a deal, hammer TYS and dash for the Med, or whatever, and
he didn't want to give out any state secrets. Why keep an ally in the
dark is beyond me...but I guess I shouldn't be talking too loudly right
now.
>I would probably have to be offered real cash to trust Hohn again
>(grin) as this is the second time he's done this. Right now, my
>intentions lean towards picking a direction and suiciding. With
>F/G going at it and Hohn seemingly unopposed, I suppose East is
>as good a direction as any.
** Yeah, at this stage, it looks to be F/T as the main powers. Pitt can
be the lever to throw weight either way, but he stands to lose HOL and
BEL this turn, so his power is more of a Kingmaker, than King. You
heading west only allows quicker Turkish gains, with perhaps a resurgent
Austria; hardly what we both want at this stage. At least keeping true
to E/F keeps you alive longer. As for "suiciding out:" bite your
tongue! Poorly-played one-center Russias suicide out. Well-played
Italian "swing nations" have much going for them -- to include retaking
centers from Edi. And France needs (and wants) your help.
>> I hope you forgive me for my one season of independent forays into
>> Germany, and I hope you see France's point of view. I'm more than
>> willing to tell him any move that re-maximizes your position.
>
>No problem. I was sincere when I said I hoped we could get you a
>centre. I'm sure the "secrecy" thing was John's idea.
** I appreciate the sincerity; we're mutually sympatico here. I also
would LOVE a center, and would hope John sees fit to have me go for VIE
or MUN again. The problem is that A and G can defend both centers, if
they suspect it. Ah well, life's a gamble and I have one center...so
what?
Take care, amigo. You'll regain TRI this turn, methinks. Keep bugging
France. (And yes, he was in the secrecy mode; his idea.)
Faz
Private message from Russia to France:
Hi Guys:
Whew; Day 1 of the conference is over, with only one last professor (my
error, unfortunately). the good news: he's a department alum with a
low-key attitude, so life blessed me there. Today is "tour West Point
and take a boat ride" day, so I'll be The Love Boat cruise guide, to
boot.
Yesiree, your military tax dollars at work. Actually a few heavy
hitters at this: Secretary Wm Perry, Ashton Carter, Harlan Ullman,
fareed Zakaria, and all the other cogniscenti and wannabes. Yawn.
OK, more important sutff: the game.
I was thinking about this (hard to believe, I know). If I were Germany,
I'd be more than happy -- given the fact that I have never to date done
_any_ eastward movement anyway -- to once again support MUN and watch
the hated Faz wither on his vine...his whiny, acerbic mouth forever
silenced. As Jamie pointed out, BEL is lost to him anyway, so he'll
either retreat it to HOL, or hit Bur to ensure no taking of
MUN...because once MUN/Ruh go, his whole flank is rolled -- everything
else is poised for the northern breakout.
And, if I were Hohn and/or Edi, I'd want same said Fassio dead, and
would ensure I cover Vienna, or perhaps hold in place and let Edi live.
Therefore, my 'druthers (if I'm allowed to have any) would be to have
French A Tyo S Boh-Vie, but *tell* Turkey that France is going into it
instead, and could he please hit TRI and/or BUD this turn.
If Hohn moves at all, Bud's support is cut. Italy should be retaking
TRI this turn(?), which means all of Edi's units have no
supports....which means I would get VIE (Munich certainly won't hit
Tyo).
These are a lot of "ifs," I realize. And if you don;'t want me staying
in the game, or if you want to try and gut Germany via MUN again, I'm
game. Whatever. I just think the Vienna option is the best potential
successful option -- and the most satisfying for me, after seeing Edi
chase me out of my homeland. To be in HIS center -- with him at the
same level as me -- well, that would be deliciously good retribution
before I died.
What say my assembled friends?
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to France:
>So, if I understand you correctly, all I need to do is flood you with mail
>and you'll immediately withdraw from your nasty froggy stab?
** Ouch, such a nasty stab. Gosh, you lost all of, um, let's see, oh--
you GAINED one. Sorry.
>
>-Pitt
> (smarting but already thinking of devious ways to get some payback...Cal?,
>Edi?, Jamie?)
>Hey hey, Pitt!
Don't leave out Russia in here! I'm not dead...yet! Of course, I'm
*certain* Jamie and Cal will immediately forget their current states
and help you unselfishly. And Edi has *so* much free time now. So I
guess that leaves me to help you. SURE, buddy; be glad to!
Cackle...ah, it's too bad I'm destined to die next turn...this is
>getting fun.
Tsar Faz
Not Smarting--Already Desensitized
>Maybe now I'll get some mail once in a while. You never know what bored
>Frenchman will do.
Oh, I think I do...
So, if I understand you correctly, all I need to do is flood you with mail
and you'll immediately withdraw from your nasty froggy stab?
-Pitt
(smarting but already thinking of devious ways to get some payback...Cal?,
Edi?, Jamie?)
Private message from England to Germany:
Dear Pitt,
I'll pass up this lovely chance to gloat, but you'll be glad to know that
this was just a glorious turn as far as I'm concerned. Everyone against
whom I've ever wanted revenge got stuck with the Big Fork.
I know you are very happy for me, so don't bother saying so.
We won't pretend that there's any chance I'd switch sides now, but if ever
I manage to build in London, well, who knows. Stranger things have
happened. (If you can think of one, remind me of what it was.)
Cheers!
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as England to Master, Italy, France,
> Germany, Russia, Turkey and Austria in 'ghodstoo':
> Doge Cal:
>
> >I'll be around until the two weeks after Labour Day
>
> Oh yeah? You're pretty sure about that?
Actually, I bit back some sarcasm when I wrote that... grin
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Master to Austria, England, France,
> Germany, Italy, Russia and Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I am becoming conscious of the approach of the Summer vacation
> season. Be sure to let me know of your lack of access times in
> advance. For those of you new to the E-Mail world, I will
> remind you of the high likelihood of VERY long delays in the
> game during the summer (with overlapping vacations). I will
> be more or less available for most of the summer, so I won't
> inhibit you. If it gets "really bad" we may just stop the whole
> game for a month or two rather than lurch around.
I'll be around until the two weeks after Labour Day when I take
off for the wilds of Northern Ontario on a solo canoe trip.
As for e-mail, I have 24/7/365 access.
Cal
Private message from Russia to Master:
Jim,
I'll be in the field training cadets from 6 July-13 August. I imagine
I'll have once-a-week returns for system checks and whatnot, but
certainly not daily mumbo-jumbo. Of course, should I die next turn,
it's all moot....
Faz
Private message from Italy to Russia:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Hi Cal
> Well, first off, my moving to MUN shouldn't have been a big killer to
> you. I mean, had I done what I intended (moving to GAL), I would've
> thrown a fist at air and moved into something Edi was moving out of. I
> couldn't have helped you, in retrospect, moving to GAL.
>
> France offered support and then wavered. I figured, well...if I move to
> GAL I know the probable result. But if France is telling the truth, I
> at least have a chance to hurt Pitt. Now, having France leave you in
> the lurch was chintzy, but he made the call that he wanted to try it --
> Big Picture vs Germany.
>
> I apologize for not telling you anything. E/F both thought, for
> interests of Absolute Secrecy -- to avoid even a casual slip -- that we
> should all be mum on this. I can see where you feel wronged, but at the
> time, we figured you'd be able to hold your ground. And again, Cal,
> honestly: my going to GAL wouldn't have changed a thing regarding moves
> vs you, and I didn't know if France was being truthful or not. I just
> wanted to do something for me this turn, is all. I'm absolutely crushed
> that it cost you two centers. I would think France is, too.
It was the secrecy that screwed me. If I'd known I'd be left on my
own, I could have tried to accomplish something more defensive.
> Now, the "brighter" side: Hohn is seriously discussing simultaneous
> crushing of Edi. France is also interested. One option would be
> Apu-Tri (Adr C), Ven S, with either France or me hitting Vie (and the
> other in support). if that is done (and if Hohn moves, versus
> supports-in-place) Edi stands to lose Tri and Vie again. One for sure.
I would probably have to be offered real cash to trust Hohn again
(grin) as this is the second time he's done this. Right now, my
intentions lean towards picking a direction and suiciding. With
F/G going at it and Hohn seemingly unopposed, I suppose East is
as good a direction as any.
> Cal, I'm on the way out. No matter what option E/F (and you) decide on,
> it's doubtful I'll get the center. I'm willing to do anything you want
> -- I think my entire game behavior towards you has shown utterly loyalty
> and doing what I've said, has it not? In that vein, I'm willing to help
> you with this last season's breath of life I have left. But I also want
> to maximize pain on A and/or G, and that means we (you, me and John)
> need to figure out the best option.
>
> I hope you forgive me for my one season of independent forays into
> Germany, and I hope you see France's point of view. I'm more than
> willing to tell him any move that re-maximizes your position.
No problem. I was sincere when I said I hoped we could get you a
centre. I'm sure the "secrecy" thing was John's idea.
Cal
Private message from Russia to Master:
You're right about the phones. Seems I forgot to change one guy's
airport terminus, and he's been sitting in Newark since 1; and there've
been two vans that have passed him up since then. he's missing, and my
name is mud. And then comes both Italy's and your notes! "Hyork,
hyork" is about right at this juncture, pal!
Thanks for the humor break; I really did need it. But I need a drink
even more right now.
Faz
Private message from Master to Russia:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Master in 'ghodstoo':
>
>
> Jim, Jim,
You recall the Bob Olsen hyork, hyork chortle, don't you?
I just couldn't resist. I know you're busy with three cellular
phones all ringing at once in Faz Central and thought you needed
my UNIQUE perspective ;-)
>
> OK, in the Demo Game I've lied to everyone -- I admit that. here I
> wouldn't call it "lying" to Cal. Yes, i didn't go where he thought, but
> that's not really lying. France should be the 'heavy' here. I just
> figured Cal could hold off Edi. Ooops.
>
Ooops indeed, I, of course, saw all of this coming and I certainly
can see your semantic point, which makes it all the more fun!!
I really can't recall, have you lied to France too? About Jamie's
attack, perhaps?
> Y'know, his letter kind of hurt. Here I spend all my life in BOH, for
> God's sake, supporting him hither and yon. The ONE turn I do something
> on my own, it's a federal case. Sheesh. There oughta be a law...
>
> Tsar Faz
>
Actually, there oughta. Making the GM giggle should not be the sole
goal of this game. You have had a lot of "tough breaks". I still
honestly think you are just as good a player as any of these people
and my estimation has not gone down except that I thought you might
pick up on some subtleties of E-Mail more quickly than you did, though
my sorry case was no better. John, in particular, has shown me a lot.
With E-Mail sometimes it is difficult to resist the "one more E-Mail"
when silence would serve your position better. John also is a master
of the "why make a statement when asking a simple question would do"
School of Diplomacy, that builds on the theory (most ably implemented
in sales negotiation) where it is said that the one asking the most
questions gets the better price.
Don't give up yet, there is at least one more week of great Diplomacy
left in you!
Jim
Private message from Master to Turkey:
I am becoming conscious of the approach of the Summer vacation
season. Be sure to let me know of your lack of access times in
advance. For those of you new to the E-Mail world, I will
remind you of the high likelihood of VERY long delays in the
game during the summer (with overlapping vacations). I will
be more or less available for most of the summer, so I won't
inhibit you. If it gets "really bad" we may just stop the whole
game for a month or two rather than lurch around.
Thanks,
Jim
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> You ask, why did I screw you so badly? I did not intend to. I wrote you
> early yesterday and I checked mail all day right until the deadline, then
> again after Germany was late. I got no reply from you. If I was cryptic
> or you had to have my support, why didn't you write? We could have at
> least talked about it. As is, my support for Boh-Mun did not accomplish
> anything, so I wish we had.
I do too, but it's not the lack of coordination of moves that did me
in.
It was the fact that you and Russia (and E according to Mark) didn't
wish to clue me in on what was going on. That, effectively, left me out
to dry and cost me Vie & Tri. If I had known what was going on, I
could have made my moves accordingly.
Cal
Private message from England to Italy:
Hm.
It's not pleasant suddenly and without forewarning to be left to fight
alone, is it? Shocking that Tsar Faz would do such a thing! Why, nothing at
all in his history would suggest it.... Believe me, I feel your pain.
(Think how long I've been waiting to say that.)
But seriously, if you want to know whom you can trust: you can believe that
M. Jean "Napoleon IV" Bark. will be on your side in any Mediterranean
battle, for years to come. He would most like to keep all the action
contained in the eastern part of the pond, while he fights furiously with
his new enemy.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to Russia:
Hah!
I guess he's forgotten Spring 1902!
Suffice it to say he wouldn't dare send me a reproachful message about
failing to inform someone that one was about to abandon him to fight a foe
alone. And why he would ever think that you are 'above' such a thing is
well beyond my ken.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Russia to France:
Guys:
Whoops. Forgot to include the DogeGram...here 'tis...
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to Russia in 'ghodstoo':
>
>Okay, I should have expected Hohn to lie to me and it was
>hardly a surprise that France screwed me around, but I'm very
>surprised that you did the same thing. What did I do to you
>that you wouldn't let me know that you and France were going
>to leave me on my own against Austria? I can understand
>wanting to gain one more centre to stick around, but a
>simple warning would have been nice.
>
>Enquiring minds want to know! :)
>
>Cal
Private message from France to Italy:
I think it was fortuitous that your message to England accidently arrived
in my box. A frank exchange of views will vastly improve our situation.
I don't know what Russia promised you regarding tactics. I never said I'd
use Tyrolia to support you. In fact, for whatever reason, you did not
mention Tryolia in our earlier communications. I assumed, then, that you
had other ideas, so I began to entertain the idea of using the unit against
Germany. I'm sorry we communicated so badly. We were obviously working
from different playbooks. England's observation that I want you to remain
strong is correct. I certainly did not want you to lose any centers.
Regarding the fleet, with Germany's lateness, we had about a day between my
message and final orders. I assumed we had plenty of time, even if orders
processed without delay, because you have been online regularly throughout
this game. Again, I am sorry things did not work out as I expected.
My point is that my commitment to you doing well remains. I'll continue to
help you.
Personally, I think you have a great opportunity. Austria now has his home
back. If I were Edi, I'd be thinking in terms of a clean slate. And I'd
be observing Hohn's stab. I'd be looking for new friends and the obvious
one is Italy. With Austria's fleet joining ours, Turkey is easily
outnumbered. If you and Edi patch it up, Austria can even mount a
counterattack on Turkey next year.
Austria clearly needs you. Without Italy's help, he's out. The rest of us
will be engaged in the north, so it's just the three of you. AI has the
upper hand, I think. It won't be easy, but Turkey can be beaten.
Regarding suicide, I think that's totally unwarranted. If nothing else,
remember that you need only one unit remaining to share in a draw. I would
not be at all surprised to see this game end in a five-way, with Italy very
much alive. I'm sorry for what happened, but I do remain on your side.
John, France
France has observed with growing concern Germany inching westward for
several years. Were Germany a true friend of France, we would not now see
two fleets threatening the North Sea. We would have seen German armies
move, even tentatively, to the eastern front. None of this has occurred.
The Foreign Ministry believes that France, in concert with its good friends
England and Russia, moved just in time to avert a German attack on French
soil.
Private message from France to Austria:
Edi,
As promised, I did nothing hostile to your efforts, and that part worked
out. Unfortunately, it seems Turkey stuck a knife in you, probably without
telling too many outright lies.
Italy is very depressed about how all this turned out. I have suggested
that he contact you about working together. If I were in your shoes, I'd
say, okay, I've got my home centers back, let's clear the decks and start
over.
Any help I can give, let me know.
John, France
Private message from France to Russia:
Further ruminations. I am not as averse to moving out of North as GKJ. I
think we should force Germany to decide what to keep. A fleet in Nth would
bother me if he did not face maybe two disbands. If he did lose hol, bel,
and mun (gaining nwy), then I wonder if he'd really hang onto the fleet,
which would be a major nuisance, but not that useful for defending the
homeland. IMO, he's bound to keep the armies. Perhaps he'd disband stp
and ska, leaving nth and nwy in play. Not good, but is that impossible to
manage? I'd have f bre and a par to add to our forces. Even his fleets
might have to head back to Germany for defense. At worst, maybe he picks
up lon or edi, but at what price?
The key is that we could hit Denmark. That creates real problems for
Germany, including the unattractiveness of bouncing in Kie. I hope you
look this over again, with that problem in mind. I certainly want to know
if I'm missing anything.
I say, again, let's hit him with all we can. As long as neither Italy or
Austria taps Tyrolia, we're certain to take three centers (losing one). If
we hear something to give us reason not to take that gamble, then the Tsar
can go out in a blaze of glory, but given the tactical situation in the
east, I think Russia can take Munich.
Private message from France to Russia:
Regarding tactics, I wish to note one small point. Germany might not
attack North Sea because we could (in fact, were I Germany I would expect)
order f hel s f nth-den. Therefore, ska must support Den. Thus, I could
defend nth with ech-nth alone. On first glance, my inclination is to knock
out both low countries and take a shot at mun.
I say, forget the eastern war. I'll have a hand with my fleet for a while,
but for the most part let ATI work it out. We have a big job to do as it
is.
Private message from Russia to France:
Nappy IV and GKJ
I agree about the DEN threat/option, and I for one am a wholehearted
supporter of the "turn the center/south German flank, and forget Nth"
cabal. I too believe Germany will concern himself most with army
retention and solidifying his line somewhere (even if it becomes a North
german/Scandy rump state). Quite honestly, if there's a way to snag
both Low Countries and try for others, I say go for it.
As for me going to MUN, I'm not so sanguine. I think Germany will
deliberately support MUN again (no other real use for BER, is there?) to
ensure "minimal" loss and my death. I'm pessimistic about success, but
will give it the ol' college try.
Suggest one or both of you perhaps write Italy and mention we'd like to
see him retake TRI. Having said that, are we to "ignore" him again in
the interests of security, or should we warn him not to expect Tyo/Boh
help, and thus tip our hand? I leave that to the big boys to decide.
Will order to Munich again; thanks for the help, mon ami.
Faz
Private message from Russia to France:
John,
So, mu understanding, then, is you wish me to try for MUN again? or am
I dying and supporting you there? The Vie thing is off?
Faz
Private message from Russia to Turkey:
Wow, now *this* is a strange combination to be writing to!
Gentlemen:
I'll do the standard Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF) so well-loved by
military men everywhere:
I want Vienna. I don't expect to live forever in this game. Don't even
know if I want to, being a one-center "life support" piece. Having said
that, if Turkey hits Austria (Rum-Bud, Ser S, Gre-Alb) concurrent with
an Italian hit on TRI and French support of me to Vienna, we could
reduce Edi to QUITE delicious proportions. Italy and Turkey stand to
gain most from this (given that France will gain two from BEL and DEN,
why have him get any more in the south?), and, fir me, it will be one
small happy point in an otherwise dismal game. A Russian unit in the
enemy's capital -- after seeing (ahem) enemy units in MY cities -- would
go a great way in providing JUSTICE for we downtrodden types.
Please consider joint ops. We can take down Vienna, but not if his
other support pieces are untapped.
I throw myself before the Balkan Powers.
Tsar Faz
>
>France has observed with growing concern Germany inching westward for
>several years. Were Germany a true friend of France, we would not now see
>two fleets threatening the North Sea. We would have seen German armies
>move, even tentatively, to the eastern front. None of this has occurred.
>The Foreign Ministry believes that France, in concert with its good friends
>England and Russia, moved just in time to avert a German attack on French
>soil.
** Hear, hear! Russia applauds the bold and *necessary* move of its
new-found friend, Napoleon IV. The great French nation was, we believe,
only a turn or two from experiencing the same perfidy that befell poor
England and, of course, our valiant nation. The Germanic-speaking
peoples of the board lie silent and sullen now, realizing how it feels
to receive a backslip, rather than giving them out.
Three cheers for France the Fabulous! A thousand huzzahs for England
the Effervescent and Efflusive! May the red-and-black plague darkening
central Europe become enlightened to true democracy and peace. Only
France and Italy -- perhaps in conjunction with E and R -- can effect
such a transformation.
As for the Turk, well....
Tsar Faz
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Hi guy:
I know this has taken a while to write, but I've obviously had to do a
LOT of thinking about what course of action is best for me. I've
finally decided. Let me give you some background as to what went into
my decision.
First off, I had to pick between two "evils". While you lied to me for
the second time this game, France and Russia also screwed me pretty good
last turn when they left me out to dry by withholding support for my
units in Austria.
The way I figure it, you may have lied to me, but both times it was in
the context of the game and did benefit you. The first time, it was
merely a matter of you having to choose between Edi and I. I can
understand and live with that. The second time (this last turn), you
DID hit Edi, but you also hurt me by cutting my support of Trieste from
Adriatic. Again, I grudgingly admit that this makes sense because it
took down TWO powers in your neighbourhood. You took the risk that I
would continue working with France, but I'm sure that seemed likely to
you anyway. Who knows? You may have been right.
France And Russia really did me wrong last turn and it was for really,
really, REALLY bad reasons. I was under the impression that they would
be helping me retain both Vienna and Trieste by supporting me with their
units in Boh & Tyo. Instead, at the last minute, they decide to hit
Munich. Okay, that was fine per se - Mark wanted to survive and France
wanted another means to attack Germany in his stab. Unfortunately, they
made the mistake of declaring this Top Secret. That meant that they
didn't tell me "in case I inadvertantly tipped someone off". Not only
is this insulting, it meant that I couldn't even TRY to defend myself
and hang onto one of the Austrian centres. As upset as I am. I've still
tried to get over this figuring that, if I attack them now, it gives you
the game. Unfortunately (for them, not so for you), I can't forgive the
personal insult part of their actions. I don't mind living with an ally
who may perpetrate the "big stab", but I hate working with someone who
screws me around over the little things (Death of 1000 Cuts?)
My take on the upcoming season is this: their letters have indicated
that they are going to try to take Vienna off Edi so Mark can survive.
I ASSUME that you are going to try and take Budapest for yourself. This
means that if Edi uses his fleet in Albania to support Trieste, I cannot
retake that centre and will lose one of my units. (I consider this a
bad thing - at four centres, I will have little effect on the game).
Here's the deal: if you will use your fleet in Greece to hit Albania and
cut support, I should retake Trieste and not have to remove any units.
Once this happens, I will turn west and go against France. Since I
cannot in all conscience continue to work with him after last turn, this
course of action appeals to me most. It should appeal to you as well as
it will almost certainly guarantee your growth up to at least 13 or 14
centres (um, hopefully none of them Italian centres...). This will
certainly guarantee that you are in at the finish of the game. With any
luck, this will mean some sort of survival for me as well. I doubt I
have much chance otherwise.
To convince you of my seriousness, I'll pass along a tidbit that may be
of use to you: France, Russia AND England have all been urging me to
patch things up with Edi and have the two of us try to blockade you
until they can finish with Germany and step in to help. Methinx this
would simply give the game to France so I have no intention of doing so
(regardless of your answer). I definitely do NOT think France has
played well enough to win this game and will do pretty much anything to
stop this from happening.
Please consider this offer.
I think the Judge is down so I am CC'ing a copy to your home (work?)
address. You might want to respond the same way.
Cal
Private message from Italy to Master:
Jim: I'm sure you'll be wondering (from my recent press to Hohn) if I'm
seriously considering throwing him the game simply because I'm pissed
off at France.
The truth is no, I'm not THAT pissed off. While I am annoyed at what
happened, I think that France currently has the upper hand in this game.
Even if Hohn is allowed to expand unchecked for the next few turns, he
will be stopped at the stalemate line. France, on the other hand, has
the edge in that he can cross the Med stalemate line and take his time
mopping up English, German and Scandinavian centres.
I figure my best chance at this point is to let Hohn grow til John has
to turn to face him (earlier than he wants I hope). With any luck, I
can be stuck in the middle and invaluable to both sides. If I attack
Hohn now, it helps France and at best puts me into a large (5-way?)
draw.
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Adriatic Sea -> Ionian
> Sea.
>
> Let me know if this is useful to you or you'd like something else.
I'll get back to you in more detail when I've had another chance to
study the board. Right now, I CAN tell you my priority is to regain the
centres I've lost.
Cal
Private message from France to Italy:
France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Adriatic Sea -> Ionian
Sea.
Let me know if this is useful to you or you'd like something else.
Private message from France to Russia:
Here's another thing to keep in mind. If Germany disbands stp and ska,
he's opening the door to Turkey. Turkey has to sit in warsaw for one turn,
then he can move north, backed by his new units. Germany can't think about
only causing us trouble, because his other flank would be vulnerable.
Private message from France to Turkey:
Sultan,
As you see, I am fully engaged with Germany. I expect that, with the help
of the small powers, I can have Germany on the defensive. I was wondering
if you were interested in playing a part in this battle. If we force
Germany to disband one, it's likely to be f stp, leaving the north open for
a Turkish army. This depends, of course, on your attitude toward Germany.
If I may say, his gradual shift my direction, coupled with talk of FTG
3-way, indicate that you and he were on friendly terms. I wonder if that
has changed, in light of recent events.
John, France
Private message from France to England:
I am assuming we take Munich also. Thus, G loses Holland, Belgium, and
Munich, he gains Norway. net loss two.
If he did try nwy-nth, then he'd lose three, because I'd vacate the north.
I think he has to keep armies over fleets. We'll be all over his homeland.
I can't see a convoy to England under such circumstances.
I may have missed something, though, so let's keep talking.
Private message from England to France:
I'll play it however you want. I won't really look carefully at your plan
until Monday, but I will say that Germany in Nth still looks bad to me.
Germany could keep the F Nth and convoy into Edi in S07. He would then get
Lvp and Edi. Could you take two of his centers to compensate?
With Germany in Nth, I would also be quite worried about my survival, but
that's obviously my special concern.
Let me also note that you have miscalculated if you think Germany would have
to take *two* disbands--he's got Norway, after all.
Let me look it over on Monday, and if I really hate the idea I'll try to
talk you out of it.
Hm. You know, if he really does support Den with Ska, he won't order Nwy-Nth
(he *really* couldn't afford to lose both lowlands and fail to get Norway).
That means the F Nth could do *support* duty, which makes me a little more
comfortable (since if dislodged it could retreat to Edi, or Yor). Think
about that option.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from France to Russia:
If we do give up on taking Munich in favor of boh-vie, then I would suggest
the following:
a bur s a pic-bel
f hel s f nth - hol
f ech - nth
Ths should net us both low countries and perhaps block G out of nth, if he
does defend den. Of course, G might also be averse to moving nwy, which
would be all the better - we'd have a fleet in nth, and the two centers.
Private message from France to Russia:
Further thoughts. I see that the surest way to take Munich is bur-mun with
support from tyrolia and bohemia. This, of course, means Russia's demise.
But, the longer I look at the map, the more permutations I see. For
instance, Germany has a real problem figuring out how to defend Kiel. As I
said, bouncing Hol and Den won't do if we attack Den. And, if Germany
defends Denmark, he won't move Nwy, so we need not worry about a German
fleet in the North Sea. In addition, Germany should want to block Bur-Ruh.
Perhaps he will order Bel-Bur (cutting support for the attack on Munich)
and Hol-Ruh. Then how does he defend Kiel? Den-Kie? Or perhaps he
doesn't block Bur-Ruh, ordering Hol-Kie instead. Then Hel (or Nth) could
take Hol unopposed. He'd be in a guessing game with England on whether to
cover Kie or Hol. Maybe, then, the solution is to bounce Mun and Ber. If
so, then a two-unit attack on Munich works.
Let's start with what I think is a fairly obvious German play:
F Nwy S F Ska-Nth
F Ska - Nth
A Den - Kie
A Hol - Kie
A Bel - Bur
F Stp - GOB
A Ber S A Mun
How can we unhinge this? And, if Germany assumes we respond to this play,
what will he do?
This seems to call for bur-mun, mar-bur, pic-bel, ech s pic-bel. The fun
begins with deciding whether to hit den, or hol, or to order hel s nth. In
any case, the result is Russia's gone, but Germany is in trouble.
An alternative is to respond to Italy's situation with an attack on
Austria. If, as GKJ has suggested, we gang up, Austria's out next turn.
France might do better with a live but crippled Austria in the game, but
it's not absolutely necessary to me. ( I tried to get A and I talking, but
Italy has told me he wants his centers back, so it might be best to help
Italy now, before he switches sides.)
Actually, a bigger question might be whether Turkey wants to take Austria
out. Without his help (cutting alb and bud), no one gains - except him.
He might not order the cuts.
This plan keeps Russia alive, but it also leaves Germany in better shape.
He'll take only one disband - none if we hold in nth, and if he guesses
right he might even gain. In addition, his defensive position will
improve. Russia won't be in boh any more, and at earliest in Fall of the
following year.
That's as far as I've thought it through.
What do you think?
Private message from France to Germany:
Our system received a major upgrade over the weekend, so of course nothing
worked for two days after. I have no idea whether we lost mail as
undeliverable, but if you sent anything on Saturday, Sunday, or early
Monday, probably best to resend.
France
Private message from England to Russia:
Gents,
I do see that there are many permutations.
Upon further consideration, I still believe that it is not wise to allow
Germany to capture the North Sea. However, I can see that from the French
perspective it might be ok, especially if France could capture three German
centers.
My last reservation is this. If Germany enters Nth, he will threaten
London. If France protects London by Eng-Lon in S1907, (a) the German fleet
could sneak into Eng, and (b) it might be very difficult for France to
leave London in the Fall safely (or, the move might just bounce, in which
case there would be another similar situation in the Fall). What this adds
up to is a significant danger of my elimination.
There is some chance that France could get me into Kiel in '07. And, if
that's the way you want to play it, giving up Nth for the centers, I'll go
along. I've committed my last forces to the Cause, and I'll follow through
with that commitment.
I guess if it were up to me, I'd choose Bur-Ruh, Eng S Pic-Bel, Hel S Nth.
I think the chance of taking Bel that way is very high, and the chance of
getting the army into Ruh is also high. This would leave a strong and tight
position for next year, strong enough to ensure the upper hand against
Germany in years to come, without ceding control of Nth. I generally prefer
the slow but sure crushing of an enemy. But again, it's Napoleon's call,
I'll go along.
For me, extinguishing Austria is no great benefit, so I leave that up to
you two. It would be a kindness for France to escort the Russian unit into
Vienna (assuming always that Turkey will play along by cutting Austrian
support), but Napoleon must do what is best for the French people.
Cheerio,
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Italy to France:
Don't know if you got this, so here's a resend:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> I don't know what Russia promised you regarding tactics. I never said
I'd
> use Tyrolia to support you. In fact, for whatever reason, you did not
> mention Tryolia in our earlier communications. I assumed, then, that you
> had other ideas, so I began to entertain the idea of using the unit
against
> Germany. I'm sorry we communicated so badly. We were obviously working
> from different playbooks.
I did mention Tyrolia in the last letter I wrote: here's the quote
<>
> England's observation that I want you to remain
> strong is correct. I certainly did not want you to lose any centers.
Well, I hope this translates into a desire to see me regain them.
> My point is that my commitment to you doing well remains. I'll continue
to
> help you.
Well, heh heh, I need all the help I can get at this point.
> Personally, I think you have a great opportunity. Austria now has his
home
> back. If I were Edi, I'd be thinking in terms of a clean slate. And I'd
> be observing Hohn's stab. I'd be looking for new friends and the obvious
> one is Italy. With Austria's fleet joining ours, Turkey is easily
> outnumbered. If you and Edi patch it up, Austria can even mount a
> counterattack on Turkey next year.
>
> Austria clearly needs you. Without Italy's help, he's out. The rest of
us
> will be engaged in the north, so it's just the three of you. AI has the
> upper hand, I think. It won't be easy, but Turkey can be beaten.
While I see your point, allying with Edi will just reduce me to a role
player. I would have NO avenues of expansion and would simply have to
be content as a buffer between France and you until you finish with
Germany. I think I'd prefer to have a few more units to mess around
with. I hope you'll help me get them.
> Regarding suicide, I think that's totally unwarranted. If nothing else,
> remember that you need only one unit remaining to share in a draw. I
would
> not be at all surprised to see this game end in a five-way, with Italy
very
> much alive. I'm sorry for what happened, but I do remain on your side.
Let me know how you feel about helping me get (at least) Trieste back.
Certainly we can still work together as I don't want to see Turkey waltz
to an easy and (as yet) undeserved win.
Cal
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy and Turkey in
> 'ghodstoo':
>
> Wow, now *this* is a strange combination to be writing to!
I consider being called "strange" a compliment... grin
> Gentlemen:
> I'll do the standard Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF) so well-loved by
> military men everywhere:
>
> I want Vienna.
>
> I throw myself before the Balkan Powers.
This is certainly fine with me, but I have little say in this.
I will do my part by attacking Trieste, but it's up to Hohn to
do HIS part to help you by taking Budapest. I hope Hohn will
help ME by hitting Albania so we can take Edi out completely.
Cal
Private message from Russia to France:
Nappy IV
Thanks you for your help. If it still comes out that you don't trust
Turkey, or that you want Germany further reduced, then I will go gently
into that good night and help you get MUN. It's just that I would like
one good smack across Edi's chops this game, if possible. But if that
puts the anti-G operation out of position and awry, then we need to
forget it.
Tsar Faz
Private message from France to Russia:
I have sent a message to Turkey re the Balkans. I am waiting for his
answer.
Nappy 4
Private message from Russia to Turkey:
Guys:
First off, thanks for your replies.
Next, I agree with Cal. Killing Edi does three things, in my mind:
1) It "tidies up the board" by eliminating a variable. (My turn will
come soon enough, I'm certain.)
2) It benefits Hohn the most, as it gives him the lion's share of the
region, and geographic position to boot. Turkey can then play on
alliance talks with Germany (common French enemy, for example), can work
with Italy to crunch France if that's the way it works), or work with
France to turn Germany into "the next Edi." From a gains perspective,
Turkey would get the most long-term benefit from snuffing the Archduke.
3) The last intangible is the most petty, but it involves Russian
feelings of _amoure proper_, and merely gives me one happy time this
game before I, too, become T/I/G fodder in 1907. And that is seeing
Edi, the Critiquer, die before me. It is the least point to consider,
but certainly an incentive for me.
I've asked France to contact Turkey with his thoughts and intentions.
Hopefully he will, and the results will be favorable. If France says
no, then I'll say my goodbyes now.
Tsar faz
Private message from Russia to France:
Guys:
Stop the presses. Note the comms between I, T and myself. You recall I
sent a note to i/t about their help in killing Edi. Hohn gives a
"tentatively favorable" reply, although who can say if he's being
up-front?
Having been screwed by him all game, I suppose I should be the most
wary, but hey -- I'm going to die anyway, and if he's willing to snuff
out Edi and I'm able to help the cause one more turn, why not do so?
John: please note -- whatever your decision, a timely reply to Hoh
would be really appreciated.
Here's my review of the West:
1) We can defend Nth and go after Hol and Bel, possibly risking Nth
(i.e., if he uses two fleets on it, he's got it):
Nth-Hol, Hel S
Pic-Bel (Bur S)
Mar S Bur
Ech-Nth
Result: Germany goes -1 (+ nwy, -bel & Hol)
2) We can hit the Low Countries and risk Nth Sea for sure:
Pic-Bel (Ech and Bur S), Mar S Bur, and Nth-Hol (hel S)
Result is the same: -1 for Germany
3) John can try for Mun:
Bur-Mun (Tyo and Boh S), Mar-Bur, Pic-Bel (Ech S) and Nth-Hol (Hel S)
This causes germany to go -2...again, assuming no A/G collusion
(extremely doubtful)
Or, we can believe Hohn and try for Vienna. IF he's telling the truth,
it means the death of Edi, a semi-happy Cal
(only goes -1, and I can offer him Vie later), and a rapidly-growing
Hohn. Could be an extra ally vs Germany (because he's the only one who
can be hurt geographically as long as F/I stay together).
John, here's the bottom line. I believe Hohn and wouldn't mind trying
for Vie. Having said that, though, you must do as Jamie mentioned in
one note: decide what's best for France. if a rapidly-growing Hohn and
a semi-satisfied (i.e., potentially-turncoat) Italy isn't up your ally
and you'd prefer to keep Edi around as a cats-paw, then consider
crushing Germany first, and I'll give up my last unit to help yopu take
him down. My only concern is if A/T are fibbing...Edi will then live,
I'll be dead, Boh is open, and Germany will be after you regardless.
I'd rather take the left arm off of the A/T colossus if possible,
knowing Germany is an eenmy whether at -1 or -2. We can reduce him even
further next year.
The other concern I have is with England's lifespan. I wouldn't want
Germany to threaten LON (Or force France to cover it and then have GKJ
taken out "by friendly fire"). That's why I roll over on final moves.
**Tell me what you want me to do, and I'll do it.**
** but please respond to Turkey, regardless, even with a negative
reply.** We owe him that much, methinks.
Faz
>
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy and Russia in 'ghodstoo':
>
>> > (Faz)Wow, now *this* is a strange combination to be writing to!
>>
>>(Cal) I consider being called "strange" a compliment... grin
>>
>> > (Faz) Gentlemen:
>> > I'll do the standard Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF) so well-loved by
>> > military men everywhere:
>> > I want Vienna.
>> > I throw myself before the Balkan Powers.
>>
>> (Cal) This is certainly fine with me, but I have little say in this.
>> I will do my part by attacking Trieste, but it's up to Hohn to
>> do HIS part to help you by taking Budapest. I hope Hohn will
>> help ME by hitting Albania so we can take Edi out completely.
>
>(Hohn) I've thought about it, and although I was initially considering just
>having BUD support SER, I'm more and more leaning towards the idea of
>eliminating Edi outright this turn, if we can manage it. I wasn't
>very impressed with certain press he sent me this past turn, and I
>would like to make my displeasure known in some fashion.
>
>(Hohn) If we can coordinate all parties, and if John verifies he will support
>a Russian move on VIE, then I will probably hit RUM-BUD, SER S
>RUM-BUD. If I can't receive or am not convinced by mutual commitment
>to the plan, then I will stick with the safe route.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Hohn
Private message from France to Turkey:
Sultan,
Your proposal is most intriguing. Needless to say, I like it a lot. In
the short term, this seems to imply next turn will be anti-Austria. Is
that so? I could play a part in that. Or any other plan, for that matter.
John, France
Private message from Russia to France:
Nappy & GKJ
I see about 6 other Dip messages in the queue, so this one will be short
(to avoid repetition that I'm sure will come as I read sequentially).
The plan seems ok, and if it means Russia's demise, then I grudgingly
accept my fate. John didn't list A Mun's actions, but I imagine it's
moot: I mean, unless Edi takes the unheard-of step of hitting Tyo (with
german support), then (a) the south is secure, and (b) France's
essentially support piece for guaranteeing Mun's fall is still there
(doubtful anyone will hit Boh, ha ha).
Let me read the rest of my mail and see if I have anything further to
add.
Tsar faz
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> You have a deal. With respect to substantive orders, I suggest the
> following:
>
> ADR-TRI
> VEN S ADR-TRI
> APU-ROM
> (NAP and TUN make a supported attack on TYS, don't tell me which one
> moves because I don't need to know)
>
> RUM-BUD
> SER S RUM-BUD
> GRE-ALB
> ION S GRE-ALB
> AEG S ION
> WAR HOLDS
> BLA HOLDS
>
> I will build all armies. I will also retreat ION in Spring (I'd love
> to retreat it now, but I don't want the French to retreat there).
> I'll be happy to allocate to you TRI and VIE, in addition to of course
> Italy and TUN, plus whatever else we can wrest off of France. I don't
> much care whether Edi dies completely or whether Mark dies and Edi has
> one. We will finish off the survivor next year, regardless.
>
> Thoughts?
Deal. I'll send in the orders now.
Cal
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
You have a deal. With respect to substantive orders, I suggest the
following:
ADR-TRI
VEN S ADR-TRI
APU-ROM
(NAP and TUN make a supported attack on TYS, don't tell me which one
moves because I don't need to know)
RUM-BUD
SER S RUM-BUD
GRE-ALB
ION S GRE-ALB
AEG S ION
WAR HOLDS
BLA HOLDS
I will build all armies. I will also retreat ION in Spring (I'd love
to retreat it now, but I don't want the French to retreat there).
I'll be happy to allocate to you TRI and VIE, in addition to of course
Italy and TUN, plus whatever else we can wrest off of France. I don't
much care whether Edi dies completely or whether Mark dies and Edi has
one. We will finish off the survivor next year, regardless.
Thoughts?
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy and Russia in 'ghodstoo':
> I've thought about it, and although I was initially considering just
> having BUD support SER, I'm more and more leaning towards the idea of
> eliminating Edi outright this turn, if we can manage it. I wasn't
> very impressed with certain press he sent me this past turn, and I
> would like to make my displeasure known in some fashion.
>
> If we can coordinate all parties, and if John verifies he will support
> a Russian move on VIE, then I will probably hit RUM-BUD, SER S
> RUM-BUD. If I can't receive or am not convinced by mutual commitment
> to the plan, then I will stick with the safe route.
>
> Thoughts?
Well, not that I have much say in it (as I noted earlier), I am in
favour of eliminating Edi simply for that favourable effect of
eliminating a variable.
Cal
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
> As you see, I am fully engaged with Germany. I expect that, with
> the help of the small powers, I can have Germany on the defensive.
> I was wondering if you were interested in playing a part in this
> battle. If we force Germany to disband one, it's likely to be f
> stp, leaving the north open for a Turkish army. This depends, of
> course, on your attitude toward Germany. If I may say, his gradual
> shift my direction, coupled with talk of FTG 3-way, indicate that
> you and he were on friendly terms. I wonder if that has changed, in
> light of recent events.
I have no problems with Pitt, but neither do I have problems with you.
I am content with a three-way. But to be honest, I see the potential
for better.
If we work together closely, and monitor each other closely, we can
whittle the field down to me, you, and small Germany and small Italy.
Then, if we are meticulous, we can move simultaneously toward the
stalemate line and obtain a two-way draw result.
This is not some lame BS designed to snooker you into letting me grab
a solo while you're not looking, btw. It's a real and realistic
proposal. We're both good enough players where we can plan ahead,
examine the tactical realities, and call it off if it looks like it
won't work, and we can then just take a three-way. But we sit astride
some of the most natural stalemate lines there are, and I think we can
do it.
And let's assume worst case scenario, and one of us miscalculates and
the other solos. In such a case, I'd have only myself to blame if I
miscalculated, and I'd begrudge your solo not at all. Moreover, I
don't mind risking letting another person solo if I have a similar
shot at soloing.
But again, I think a two-way would be elegant and very workable. We
just have to be careful. And I think it would impress people, that we
pulled off the extremely difficult.
Alternatively, I'm open to the idea of three-way with either Italy or
Germany as the third power. Please let me know your thoughts on the
matter.
Thanks,
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Russia:
> > Wow, now *this* is a strange combination to be writing to!
>
> I consider being called "strange" a compliment... grin
>
> > Gentlemen:
> > I'll do the standard Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF) so well-loved by
> > military men everywhere:
> > I want Vienna.
> > I throw myself before the Balkan Powers.
>
> This is certainly fine with me, but I have little say in this.
> I will do my part by attacking Trieste, but it's up to Hohn to
> do HIS part to help you by taking Budapest. I hope Hohn will
> help ME by hitting Albania so we can take Edi out completely.
I've thought about it, and although I was initially considering just
having BUD support SER, I'm more and more leaning towards the idea of
eliminating Edi outright this turn, if we can manage it. I wasn't
very impressed with certain press he sent me this past turn, and I
would like to make my displeasure known in some fashion.
If we can coordinate all parties, and if John verifies he will support
a Russian move on VIE, then I will probably hit RUM-BUD, SER S
RUM-BUD. If I can't receive or am not convinced by mutual commitment
to the plan, then I will stick with the safe route.
Thoughts?
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
> I am being beseeched to assist both sides in the I-A struggle. What
> is your preference?
Holy crossing e-mails, Batman! I just got this after I sent my reply
to you.
Please read my mail, and let me know what you think. If you are
amenable to my proposal, we can probably answer the above question in
favor of the most efficient route to whittling down all other powers
save us.
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> My condolences over your frustration with John and Mark. As for me, I
> apologize for screwing you over. I'd toyed with the idea of claiming,
> "Sorry, it was a miswritten order!" but I quickly dismissed the idea
> because I didn't want to insult your intelligence.
Good thing me bucko, I was frustrated enough... heh heh.
> I must admit I'm a bit annoyed with Edi right now as well. Well, not
> annoyed, but a bit disappointed. After my stab, he sent me some press
> indicating how letting him live and me retreating from the centers I
> took from him would unquestionably be "the best strategic decision,"
> or some such similar nonsense.
> I mean, please. Don't insult my intelligence, Edi! Anyway, if he's
> going to do that, I suppose I could do the same, and play along, and
> promise to retreat, etc. etc. I suppose I'm rambling a bit, and for
> that I apologize, but I'm in a bit of a strange mood right now.
It's okay; this damned game will do that to you... I think I'll allow
myself the luxury of a small chuckle here. I know exactly what you
mean - what do you think I'VE been hearing from him for the past two
years?
> As for your substantive offer, I plan on having RUM support SER, and
> SER is available to support you into TRI. I haven't yet determined
> whether GRE is free to tap ALB yet, but it is probable that I can do
> so. I'll confirm for sure later, after I've examined my tactical
> situation.
If I hit Trieste and Rum hits Bud, Serbia is in no danger. If you
support me from Serbia, I probably wouldn't need the hit on Alb
(assuming Rum can tap Budapest...).
What do you think of Mark's plan? I have no objection to seeing him
around for one more turn although, after last turn, I won't shed a tear
if he isn't. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Edi go out completely if
for no other reason than to reduce one variable. Course that applies
to Mark as well... :)
> I will also promise you this. I still don't think there's a chance in
> hell that I can solo. I do want to be the largest power in a
> three-way draw, though. That's just a pride thing. If you do work
> with me, and one power emerges victorious between Pitt and John (and
> to be honest, I don't particularly care much which one it is; as long
> as I'm part of the three-way, I'm happy), then there is still a decent
> chance that you will be able to be a part of the three-way as well,
> albeit as a small power. But a draw is a draw is a draw, in many
> ways, and I think being the precarious (but necessary) balance between
> two larger powers is eminently feasible for you. After all, we both
> know the chances of a two-way of any kind working is extremely remote.
> We'll need a buffer power, and that can be you, I think.
Given the calibre of play in this game, I think the only power with
ANY chance of an 18 centre win is France and only because he has the
best chance of crossing the stalemate line. That said, I don't
think he can do it without my cooperation which, to say the least,
ain't gonna happen.
> I take it from your press that you would prefer a GIT three-way over
> an FIT three-way. That's fine with me. Both F and G had been talking
> individually about an FGT three-way last turn, but that prospect seems
> rather unlikely in light of the French stab. What do you think?
If I can be part of a 3-way, I'm not concerned if France is part of it.
All in all, he's probably played a better game than Pitt if only because
I don't think Pitt has made as much happen (okay, it's close). If you
see me as the Kingmaker between you and France, fine, because I see it
that way too. If I get taken out, YOU risk a French win and lose a
faithful ally so I figure it's in your best interest to keep me in.
I mean, after all, I intend to work against France even if you attack
me again, so what would be the point on your part?
All I ask is that you let me have a fair share of the Balkans (your
choice on the division - just keep me viable; 6 or 7 centres is my
estimation of what I need to be effective). Given that, I'll do my
best to see that I/T is in on the draw.
Deal?
Cal
Private message from France to Turkey:
Sultan,
I am being beseeched to assist both sides in the I-A struggle. What is
your preference?
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
My condolences over your frustration with John and Mark. As for me, I
apologize for screwing you over. I'd toyed with the idea of claiming,
"Sorry, it was a miswritten order!" but I quickly dismissed the idea
because I didn't want to insult your intelligence.
I must admit I'm a bit annoyed with Edi right now as well. Well, not
annoyed, but a bit disappointed. After my stab, he sent me some press
indicating how letting him live and me retreating from the centers I
took from him would unquestionably be "the best strategic decision,"
or some such similar nonsense.
I mean, please. Don't insult my intelligence, Edi! Anyway, if he's
going to do that, I suppose I could do the same, and play along, and
promise to retreat, etc. etc. I suppose I'm rambling a bit, and for
that I apologize, but I'm in a bit of a strange mood right now.
As for your substantive offer, I plan on having RUM support SER, and
SER is available to support you into TRI. I haven't yet determined
whether GRE is free to tap ALB yet, but it is probable that I can do
so. I'll confirm for sure later, after I've examined my tactical
situation.
I will also promise you this. I still don't think there's a chance in
hell that I can solo. I do want to be the largest power in a
three-way draw, though. That's just a pride thing. If you do work
with me, and one power emerges victorious between Pitt and John (and
to be honest, I don't particularly care much which one it is; as long
as I'm part of the three-way, I'm happy), then there is still a decent
chance that you will be able to be a part of the three-way as well,
albeit as a small power. But a draw is a draw is a draw, in many
ways, and I think being the precarious (but necessary) balance between
two larger powers is eminently feasible for you. After all, we both
know the chances of a two-way of any kind working is extremely remote.
We'll need a buffer power, and that can be you, I think.
I take it from your press that you would prefer a GIT three-way over
an FIT three-way. That's fine with me. Both F and G had been talking
individually about an FGT three-way last turn, but that prospect seems
rather unlikely in light of the French stab. What do you think?
Let me know.
Thanks,
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
Did you ever get this message or send a response? FYI, I haven't
received anything from you this turn yet.
Hohn
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:00:28 -0500
:: Judge: USIN Game: Ghodstoo Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: F1906M Thu Jun 12 1997 23:30:00 EST Boardman: 1997KT
Message sent to Germany:
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
Well my friend, I'm in it with you whole hog. I'm not sure what's up
with John, his stab seems a bit odd to me, but in any case, you have
my complete friendship and support. Just let me know what you want me
to do. I'll respect whatever boundaries you propose, and I'm still
game on the three-way with whatever third-party you choose.
Hope you get some rest, and I'll talk to you soon.
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> Orders are as I said. My last decision is regarding RUM/SER, and as I
> mentioned, I will make sure I either make a supported attack or I
> support your ADR-TRI. With ALB cut, that should make you a shoe-in.
Regarding Bud & Ser, I'm still casting my vote to take Budapest out.
Edi's still writing me those "do this for your own good" letters...
:)
Cal
Private message from England to France:
Hel S Nth - Hol.
I hadn't, but I shall now.
GKJ
Private message from France to Italy:
I've reordered my priorities to give you a hand. I'm almost certain you
will regain some lost territory.
John
Private message from France to Turkey:
Okay, B-S is toast.
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
All sounds good. Thanks for your time and consideration.
Orders are as I said. My last decision is regarding RUM/SER, and as I
mentioned, I will make sure I either make a supported attack or I
support your ADR-TRI. With ALB cut, that should make you a shoe-in.
Luck to us!
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
> I did lose some mail due to computer upgrade here. I know this because
> another player resent a lost message. Perhaps yours also were lost in the
> ether.
Ah. I don't think so, I think I was referring to the 2-way proposal.
> I asked you in a previous message if your actions this year are to be
> anti-Austrian. As you can see, concerted action could immediately
> eliminate Bir-Sauron. If you don't participate, it's a waste of my time
> and I'd rather do something else. So, to bring this to a point, are you
> going to cut alb and bud so the other two centers can be taken out? That's
> what I meant that the whole world awaits your word. Just about every other
> move in the game hinges on your choice.
I get it now.
Yes, I am all for taking Edi out immediately. Let's eliminate the
smaller powers and clear the board of random variables, please.
> As to the long term, you bet I'd like to drive for a two-way. I fully
> understand and appreciate your comments about leaving our options open and
> having a clear understanding that one or the other of us could try for the
> brass ring. Knowing that and saying it up front probably makes it less
> likely to happen, of course. In any event, we are a long way from
> anything, but striving for the two-way makes a lot of sense as a point of
> reference.
Indeed it does, and I'm glad we're on the same page.
Wouldn't it be great to see the look on Edi's face when he goes down?
;)
Hohn
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> My fleet is at your disposal. I'll issue the order.
>
> Perhaps Russia has talked to you about a plot brewing to take Austria out.
> It depends on Turkey's willingess to do the necessary cuts, so you can get
> into Trieste and Russia into Vienna. What's your thinking on this?
While I would certainly be hesitant to trust Turkey yet again, he has
mentioned being angry at something Edi wrote to him after this last
turn.
I take this to mean he'd be up for it. I don't think it matters to me
at least insofar as it isn't going to change MY orders. It COULD matter
to me if Russia hits Vienna and helps me get Trieste, so I guess if
you're willing and Mark will order Boh-Vie, I'd certainly appreciate it.
Cal
Private message from France to England:
If you have not yet order hel s nth-hol, please do so.
Looking ahead, I am hoping we can secure another center for you. Perhaps
you could build an army for convoy to the Continent.
Nappy 4
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> Just had an interesting phone conversation with Edi.
> Man, he sure is a smooth talker.
That's why I stay on the Net and tie up my phone... heh heh.
> I want to work with you, Cal. It's in both of our self-interests, I
> sincerely believe.
I think so.
> So please, let's do it. I apologize if all of this is already what
> you believe, or obvious and self-evident, or otherwise displaying some
> lack of faith on my part. It's just that Edi is very convincing when
> he wants to be (although in this case, I don't think his diplomacy had
> quite the effect he desired). ;)
Don't worry about it. I always appreciate knowing that an ally has put
a lot of thought into the reasons he SHOULDN'T stab me... grin
Cal
Private message from France to Turkey:
I did lose some mail due to computer upgrade here. I know this because
another player resent a lost message. Perhaps yours also were lost in the
ether.
I asked you in a previous message if your actions this year are to be
anti-Austrian. As you can see, concerted action could immediately
eliminate Bir-Sauron. If you don't participate, it's a waste of my time
and I'd rather do something else. So, to bring this to a point, are you
going to cut alb and bud so the other two centers can be taken out? That's
what I meant that the whole world awaits your word. Just about every other
move in the game hinges on your choice.
As to the long term, you bet I'd like to drive for a two-way. I fully
understand and appreciate your comments about leaving our options open and
having a clear understanding that one or the other of us could try for the
brass ring. Knowing that and saying it up front probably makes it less
likely to happen, of course. In any event, we are a long way from
anything, but striving for the two-way makes a lot of sense as a point of
reference.
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> OK, I'm convoying APU-TUN. That should satisfy your security needs as
> well as mine. I will still hit ALB, with GRE. I am also supporting
> ADR-TRI.
Groovy! :) (Sorry, 60s flashback...)
> Although you're not going to be able to kick John out of TYS. Is that
> a problem, or is that OK?
If I'm in Wes, I bet he has better things to do with that fleet than
hit Rome. (Like scrambling back to cover his butt). And even if he
doesn't, I have one turn's worth of ven-rom; nap-rom...
> I take it NAP will take a shot at TYS anyway, in case he stabs you
> in ROM?
Yup, but I'm betting he offers to support my "attack" on Ion as I've
requested... heh heh
> > I like these moves so much I'm sending them in now, so let me know quick
> > if you have a problem with them.
>
> Done.
Ta.
Cal
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
> Message from [email protected] as France to Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
> Sultan: The whole world is awaiting your word. What's it to be?
I'm very confused. Didn't you get my most recent message or two, sent
a while ago? They outlined some moderately concrete proposals.
What do _you_ want to do? I'm willing to work in whatever fashion to
expedite a narrowing of the field for us.
Hohn
Private message from France to Turkey:
Sultan: The whole world is awaiting your word. What's it to be?
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
Just had an interesting phone conversation with Edi.
Man, he sure is a smooth talker.
In any case, I want to assure you, I have nothing better to do with my
units than to do as I've told you. ION can get kicked out by you and
France (and even Austria, if that's what you want) easily, so I'm not
going to bother moving somewhere that will be blocked, or supporting
it to hold when I know it can be dislodged. Thus, I am free to hit
GRE with my backup units. ION is free to convoy.
Meanwhile, RUM and SER have nothing better to do than to either attack
BUD or have RUM support SER while SER supports your ADR-TRI. I ain't
goin' anywhere (except maybe BUD), and that means I've got support
orders to write. I'd much rather see you work with me and play buffer
and third-party between France and me than to see an angry and now
distrustful Edi survive any longer than necessary.
Edi and Jamie and Mark are on the way out. There's no reason to keep
them in. That leaves the four of us. Pitt has been nonresponsive,
and he's also not as necessary to the stalemate line as you are (I can
scoot armies into a Russian stalemate position pretty easily, while
you and I can defend the center, and you can stop the French at the
ION/TUN/TYS/TUS/GOL/PIE (or some other variant) line). I can hang
back with my fleets (which will constitute an impenetrable defense if
you choose to go against me, incidentally; meanwhile, France will
continue infiltrating your country until he stabs for the solo) if
that will make you feel better and safer.
I want to work with you, Cal. It's in both of our self-interests, I
sincerely believe.
So please, let's do it. I apologize if all of this is already what
you believe, or obvious and self-evident, or otherwise displaying some
lack of faith on my part. It's just that Edi is very convincing when
he wants to be (although in this case, I don't think his diplomacy had
quite the effect he desired). ;)
Let me know.
Thanks,
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
Still haven't heard from you this turn. Shall we talk on the phone?
My work number is 310-858-7393, and my home number is 310-320-0331.
I stand ready to support you in any way I can, or to stay the heck
away from you and respect whatever DMZ you want so you can defend
yourself without worry, if you prefer. I've always done what I said
I'd do, and I've certainly never stabbed you like John did.
Please let me know what you want to do. If you have a preference
regarding who I work with, A or I, I'd give that preference a good
amount of weight as well.
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Message from [email protected] as Italy to Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
> Hohn: I have an idea for tactics this turn. How does this sound?
> Italy: a apu-tun; f tun-wes
> Turkey: f ion c Italian a apu-tun;
> The rest of the orders (I: f adr-tri, s by a ven. T: f gre-alb; etc)
> remain the same.
OK, I'm convoying APU-TUN. That should satisfy your security needs as
well as mine. I will still hit ALB, with GRE. I am also supporting
ADR-TRI.
Although you're not going to be able to kick John out of TYS. Is that
a problem, or is that OK? I take it NAP will take a shot at TYS
anyway, in case he stabs you in ROM?
> The reason for this is to either take a shot at Spain if Marseilles
> moves to Bur/Pie OR (and this might be more fun!) move to Mid Atlantic
> next Spring and really stir things up.
> I like these moves so much I'm sending them in now, so let me know quick
> if you have a problem with them.
Done.
Hohn
Private message from France to Italy:
My fleet is at your disposal. I'll issue the order.
Perhaps Russia has talked to you about a plot brewing to take Austria out.
It depends on Turkey's willingess to do the necessary cuts, so you can get
into Trieste and Russia into Vienna. What's your thinking on this?
Private message from Italy to France:
Hi John: I've been looking over my tactical situation and I've come up
with:
a apu-tri, s by a ven, c by f adr
f tun-ion, s by f nap (& f tyn)
Thoughts?
Cal
Private message from Italy to Austria:
Edi Birsan wrote:
>
> Well ole chap what can I say other than I have tried to get you to go after
> the Turk and to show to you that if you continued to attack me and the Turk
> came in that he and not you would gain from it.
Well, actually, if France and Russia hadn't left me out to dry, I'd have
been
in fine shape and you wouldn't be where you are... :)
> I have been straight with you the entire game and I think you know that I can
> be trusted in a long term alliance and do not silly things. Let's show the
> Turk that his move was a silly thing and toss him back.
1) Seems to me that the last time I trusted you in a long term alliance,
it
involved Russia and England. Remember the Q Continuum? Funny how
we're
all in the tank now, eh?
2) Regardless of how it affects you or I in the long run, I'd say Hohn's
move
made a lot of sense from HIS point of view. Even game-wise, it
pretty much
assures him of a place in the final result, wouldn't you say?
> I can understand that you are concerned with being between France and the
> East. However, you have no choice. If the East is Turkey you know you are
> doomed, after all how many times has he lied to you and how many times do you
> have to count to 18 to know that Tunis and Italy are the key.
I'm quite aware of my position strategically. As things stand now, I
can
probably lay claim to being this game's "Kingmaker".
> As for me, France will grow and we will need to be vigilant to stop him from
> sneaking into Tunis and making it his 18th . So from a strategic point we
> have to trust each other and go for the 3 way draw as otherwised we are both
> doomed.....
We'll see. At the moment, it doesn't look as if you'll be around long
enough
to have any meaningful effect on the final result.
Cal
Private message from Italy to Russia:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> Am idly sitting by, awaiting the decision from France for my unit: do
> I go to Vie, Mun, or support him to Mun?
Think of all the "thought energy" you're saving... :)
> I hope you can see fit to retake TRI this turn, and that entails Turkey
> supporting the destruction of Edi.
I'll be trying, so that part of your plan is met.
> Not that we've ever had good
> feedback from Hohn in terms of trustworthiness, but this time he might
> be telling the truth.
Who knows? He really has no need for intricate lies now.
> Your views on his credibility? If he's telling the truth, I'd love to
> see Edi's destruction and to occupy Vienna. Any feelers from him?
Boy, I'm the wrong guy to ask. :) He's lied to me twice and I fell
for it both times. For what it's worth, he has said that he's PO'ed
enough at Edi to do it. I guess we'll see.
Cal
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Hohn: I have an idea for tactics this turn. How does this sound?
Italy: a apu-tun; f tun-wes
Turkey: f ion c Italian a apu-tun;
The rest of the orders (I: f adr-tri, s by a ven. T: f gre-alb; etc)
remain the same.
The reason for this is to either take a shot at Spain if Marseilles
moves to Bur/Pie OR (and this might be more fun!) move to Mid Atlantic
next Spring and really stir things up.
I like these moves so much I'm sending them in now, so let me know quick
if you have a problem with them.
Cal
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Cal
Am idly sitting by, awaiting the decision from France for my unit: do
I go to Vie, Mun, or support him to Mun?
I hope you can see fit to retake TRI this turn, and that entails Turkey
supporting the destruction of Edi. Not that we've ever had good
feedback from Hohn in terms of trustworthiness, but this time he might
be telling the truth.
Your views on his credibility? If he's telling the truth, I'd love to
see Edi's destruction and to occupy Vienna. Any feelers from him?
Tsar faz
Private message from Russia to France:
I thank you both for your review of my options, and for the latest
French missive, offering Vienna support (again, assuming Turkey makes it
a "go"). _That_ decision, unfortunately, is far from my hands, and
I'll go whichever way you guys want.
I'll order to Vienna for now, and see what transpires.
You're both good men, and it's been a privelege. God, and to think what
could've been done when I had 6 times the troops....a fool and his units
are soon parted.
Tsar Faz
Private message from France to Russia:
Tactically, I would much prefer to hit Germany for three, which would take
the Tsar of All the Russias out of the game. But I do want Italy's good
will, which will probably require giving him help regaining Trieste. I
think, right now, that might be more important than knocking Germany down.
Thus, if the Sultan gives the go sign, we'll probably put Austria out of
his misery.
In other words, I have good reasons of my own for hitting Vienna, in
addition to my fervent desire to see my inestimable Russian friend wreak
his much-deserved revenge.
Nappy 4
Private message from England to Russia:
Napoleon,
I think you might have to be a *little* careful about letting Turkey
present himself as Italy's only friend. Probably Italy can't trust Turkey
enough to sail west with so few units, but you never know.
Tsar,
>1) We can defend Nth and go after Hol and Bel, possibly risking Nth
>(i.e., if he uses two fleets on it, he's got it):
>Nth-Hol, Hel S
>Pic-Bel (Bur S)
>Mar S Bur
> Ech-Nth
>
>Result: Germany goes -1 (+ nwy, -bel & Hol)
Surely Bel should be taken from Burgundy, not from Picardy. France doesn't
want to leave an army in Mar when he could have one in Pic instead. And
Burgundy is perfectly safe. Attacking from Bur is better -- unless for some
reason you think Germany will order Mun S Bel-Bur?
>2) We can hit the Low Countries and risk Nth Sea for sure:
>Pic-Bel (Ech and Bur S), Mar S Bur, and Nth-Hol (hel S)
>Result is the same: -1 for Germany
Hm. I guess I think this is better. If Germany goes for Nth with just one
unit, it will be Nwy -- better to let him in (so he doesn't get Nwy!) than
to bounce him, much as I hate to see France lose control of Nth.
>3) John can try for Mun:
>Bur-Mun (Tyo and Boh S), Mar-Bur, Pic-Bel (Ech S) and Nth-Hol (Hel S)
>This causes germany to go -2...again, assuming no A/G collusion
>(extremely doubtful)
I like this, but it means Russia is out of the game, almost certainly.
>Or, we can believe Hohn and try for Vienna. IF he's telling the truth,
>it means the death of Edi, a semi-happy Cal
>(only goes -1, and I can offer him Vie later), and a rapidly-growing
>Hohn. Could be an extra ally vs Germany (because he's the only one who
>can be hurt geographically as long as F/I stay together).
Sure, ok by me.
My bet is that Turkey is sincere, by the way.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Master to Russia:
Hi guys, I just want to say (from the point of view of the GM) that
I appreciate the effort you're continuing to put in despite being
near defeat. What I have found most interesting has been your
assessments of what is going on with the other players. Now
we shall see what is up. No interference intended, but I wish
you the best of luck.
Jim
Private message from Russia to France:
John,
A small typo; correction is below.
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to France in
> 'ghodstoo':
>
>
> John:
> Interesting! You're offering to go status quo, and I've already
> changed
> my orders to support Bur-Mun! Guess we're two swell guys, aren't we?!
>
> Truthfully, I have *no* intelligence info that suggests Turkey's not
> telling the truth, and that he's going to hit BUD and ALB. Having
> said
> that, he could also do nothing, and watch me die. But I think he's
> sincere.
((corrected paragraph follows))
> My only concern with *not* hitting VIE is that it possibly allows
> Vie S
> TRI, thus denying Cal a regain of TRI. if that happens, he will sense
> that "you screwed him" a 'second' time, and may be inclined to play on
> the side of your foemen, vice yours. That's my big concern with not
> hitting Vienna.
>
> It becomes a judgment call, really. Do we strke my second Germanic
> tormentor, and reduce Pitt by two big ones? Or do we go for a sure -1
> on Pitt, a 75% chance of helping Cal get TRI back (thus helping you in
> the long run), and a chance to eradicate Edi?
>
> My heart is with the Vienna attack, but my brain says you'd be better
> off -- even 1% better -- in reducing Pitt.
>
> Unless you tell me to go for Vienna, and that you _honestly_ 'feel
> good"
> that that's the best option FOR FRANCE, John, then I'll leave myself
> supporting you to MUN and wish you well.
>
> tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to France:
John:
Interesting! You're offering to go status quo, and I've already changed
my orders to support Bur-Mun! Guess we're two swell guys, aren't we?!
Truthfully, I have *no* intelligence info that suggests Turkey's not
telling the truth, and that he's going to hit BUD and ALB. Having said
that, he could also do nothing, and watch me die. But I think he's
sincere.
My only concern with *not* hitting MUN is that it possibly allows Vie S
TRI, thus denying Cal a regain of TRI. if that happens, he will sense
that "you screwed him" a 'second' time, and may be inclined to play on
the side of your foemen, vice yours. That's my big concern with not
hitting Vienna.
It becomes a judgment call, really. Do we strke my second Germanic
tormentor, and reduce Pitt by two big ones? Or do we go for a sure -1
on Pitt, a 75% chance of helping Cal get TRI back (thus helping you in
the long run), and a chance to eradicate Edi?
My heart is with the Vienna attack, but my brain says you'd be better
off -- even 1% better -- in reducing Pitt.
Unless you tell me to go for Vienna, and that you _honestly_ 'feel good"
that that's the best option FOR FRANCE, John, then I'll leave myself
supporting you to MUN and wish you well.
tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to England:
Jamie,
I told him -- in a very long-winded way -- that if that's what it took
to optimize the positions and to hurt the most enemy formations, then so
be it.
I've already reordered Boh to support him to Munich.
He must have some advance poop from either T or G that's causing this
reassessment. Oh well, I did offer to die if it helped the cause, and
after helping Italy ad nauseam for his gains, it'll be nice to hurt my
other germanic tormentor for a change.
If I could re-do the game from 1902 on, GKJ, rst assured I'd do so. You
deserved better, and I didn't deliver.
tsar faz
soon to be gone
Private message from France to Russia:
I know what I need to know. We'll attack Vienna, unless you can ferret out
info indicating that Boh-Mun would work. In that case, I'd far prefer that
you take Munich. This one's completely your call, now. Of course, I have
to adjust all my orders if you change from Boh-Vie.
Nappy 4
Private message from England to Russia:
So, what did you tell him???
I think I would have said the same thing, as France, and I respect the way
he's doing it, too.
He really has no interest (aside from any vicarious interest on your
behalf) in seeing Edi destroyed especially rapidly. And Burg-Mun is
practically a sure thing. It will be fun to see Pitt sink, anyway.
I do plan to be useful, as useful as I can possibly be. My survival depends
on my continued utility!
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Russia to England:
GKJ
See below.
> Message from [email protected] as France to Russia in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Tsar Faz: Looking things over, I hate to say this, but things might
> work
> out for the best if I take Munich from Burgundy. I've been working on
> various arrangements to get you into Vienna, and I still prefer that
> outcome. But it might work out otherwise. I want you to tell me
> straight
> if you are really willing to fall on the sword. This one is totally
> up to
> you. I can live with any decision. All I want is the truth, and I'll
> go
> with it, no matter what.
>
> Nothing's final, but I need to know asap.
>
> Napolean IV
>
I wish you well, and hope you're as useful (actually, moreso than I!)
regarding France. As Holmes, would say, "The game is afoot."
Tsar faz
Private message from Russia to France:
Nappy IV
Well, you need an asap reply, so here we go:
1) I'd be curious to know what's surfaced that might cause you to go for
MUN instead of the Vie support thing.
This isn't the "Italy stabbing westward" thing again, I imagine, so you
must be hearing new rumors.
2) IF you really feel Hohn won't support us, and thus Edi will cut your
support/be able to defend VIE, then *yes,* I'll accept death to help you
gain your third German center this turn. Especially if you feel he's
doing Bel-Bur to ensure I don't get a center.
This game evolves now into some personality-driven constraints. if I
were Edi and Pitt and knew Faz could still hurt them, I'd want me dead
ASAP, even if they lost something in the process. And that implies
Bel-Bur, Vie-Tyo, to ensure I get zippo. If *that* is what you're
hearing, and thus any French support for me would be unproductive, then
I'll help you into MUN and accept death. In a bummed out way, of course
(because I want Vie), but I said it in all previous letters, and I mean
it. if my death must occur to maximize the positions, then so be it.
I only wish to survive if it benefits us all and there's a viable choice
to have it be so.
Tsar Faz
Private message from France to Russia:
I did mean to add something else. If Germany were to think that no attack
on Munich is coming, he might play things a little loose there, to solve
some other problems he has, such as defending Kiel. Maybe you could use
Turkey as a channel to feel this out. Turkey should believe that we are
hitting Vienna. He might pass this info along to Germany. If we had a
pretty good idea Germany believed this, it would open up some opportunities
worth exploring.
Private message from France to Russia:
Tsar Faz: Looking things over, I hate to say this, but things might work
out for the best if I take Munich from Burgundy. I've been working on
various arrangements to get you into Vienna, and I still prefer that
outcome. But it might work out otherwise. I want you to tell me straight
if you are really willing to fall on the sword. This one is totally up to
you. I can live with any decision. All I want is the truth, and I'll go
with it, no matter what.
Nothing's final, but I need to know asap.
Napolean IV
Private message from France to Austria:
Edi, Italy will probably attack Trieste from Adriatic or Apulia. That
means that an attack on Venice would stand off. I can't say I'm that
interested in making Italy an enemy right now unless Venice falls. It
won't, so I think I have other uses for Tyrolia.
John
Private message from Russia to Master:
Hi Jim
Thanks--as always!--for the note.
I appreciate your compliment. I always play a game to its conclusion,
be it bitter defeat, draw, or solo. This game, given the high-viz with
the "ghods" involved, commands even more attention. I only hope that
the readership finds this interesting, and has made commentary in your
'zine??
I'm sanguine about my chances for survival. if I were Edi or Pitt
(neither of whom have written, as usual) and I was bombarded all game
with moronic press, acerbic letter-writing (albeit truthful) and other
such 'indignities' from the Russian, I'd make it my effort to kill the
Tsar. After all, if Edi realistically sees himself going down the
tubes, what better spite than to work with Pitt (and maybe Hohn!!) and
hit Tyo and Boh, to ensure I get nothing, anywhere? This way they "wipe
the slate" of E/R pieces, and let just the big boys decide the future of
Europe.
The key is "what do they see as the threat?" Does Edi see a three-way
hitting him (assuming Hohn's being truthful)? or is he fixated on I/T?
Is Germany expecting a repeat, thus concentrating on his own nest, or is
there cross-country collusion? I guess we'll see tomorrow.
It's been fun, in a (very) brutal way, and I'll be curious to see if I
live or die this turn. Would be nice to be in Vienna this turn, but
again, I'm not holding my breath.
Tsar Faz
Private message from England to Russia:
>I told him -- in a very long-winded way
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[what a surprise!!!] :-)
> -- that if that's what it took
>to optimize the positions and to hurt the most enemy formations, then so
>be it.
>
>I've already reordered Boh to support him to Munich.
There's a special place in heaven set aside for you. (As it happens,
there's also a special place in hell, so it'll be interesting to see which
way your soul flutters.)
>He must have some advance poop from either T or G that's causing this
>reassessment.
Check. I couldn't make out exactly what he meant, either.
>Oh well, I did offer to die if it helped the cause, and
>after helping Italy ad nauseam for his gains, it'll be nice to hurt my
>other germanic tormentor for a change.
I'm looking forward to hearing Pitt's end-of-game speech. His career has
been very bizarre. First he makes the perfect moves, establishing himself
as the frontrunner, then he utterly squanders the position, making
amateurish moves and failing to talk to anyone. Well, the whole game has
been inscrutable, as far as I'm concerned!
>If I could re-do the game from 1902 on, GKJ, rst assured I'd do so. You
>deserved better, and I didn't deliver.
Take a seat on the bench next to Karl Malone.
If I ever get to Oslo, I'll light a candle for you.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Russia to France:
Guys,
A post-script:
Please, someone notify Italy about the change of plans. I can't in good
conscience be silent and have Cal feel like he's been 'screwed" a second
time. Not only is this just "not cricket," but it bodes ill for future
F/I relations from his perspective, as well as possibly weakens him
further by preventing the recapture of TRI -- all of which are
sub-optimal for France in the long-term. So please, treat our "other"
ally nicely.
I have, for your info, sent a note to Edi, telling him that I'll save
him a seat on the bench of the afterlife. I said that I'm supporting
France to Vienna, in conjunction with T/I attacks on him. This may or
may not work, but I wanted to mess with his mind one last time. We'll
see.
tsar faz
Private message from Russia to France:
With a sad yet proud salute, the Tsar bids both of his friends a
fond farewell. Despite my desire to wreack havoc on BeerSon and the
East, this is indirect happiness on my part, seeing Germany reduced. I
wish you both well.
Russia signs off, with only a few post-move broadcasts left in
my bag of tricks (or bag of hot air, take your pick).
Long live E/F !
Tsar faz
Private message from France to Austria:
I won't attack you or support an attack.
Private message from France to Russia:
Vive La Russe! [Just guessing what the French is. ]
France graciously accepts Russia's support into Munich.
I don't have reason to believe Italy will attack me now. I do worry about
him next year. Consequently I am not so certain I want Edi dying off that
fast. A remaining Austrian army might also slow the Sultan just a tad.
These are my thoughts as I beg you to make the ultimate sacrifice.
You will figure prominently in my post-game report. In fact, I'll send one
of my periodic reports to M right away!
In your debt,
Napolean IV
Private message from Russia to Austria:
Hi Edi
Well, this will be interesting, to see which of us dies first.
Actually, it'll be me, for I'm ordering BOH S Tyo-Vie. This move,
coupled with Turkish and Italian attacks all along your borders, will
ensure you go down another 1 or 2, as well as give France more firepower
vs Germany.
Strange, how "far" we've both come since 1902....
Good luck; you'll need it. I'll reserve a spot on the bench of
afterlife for you.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to France:
Nappy IV,
Just to reconfirm: unless you 100% in favor of me going for Vie, I've
reordered to show BOH S Bur-Mun. I hope you get it, and please remember
me in your end-game report. I hope this move, coupled with my earlier
calling-off of Italy agaist you, merits a special place for me in french
memories.
Allons!
Tsar faz
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Guys:
Am resetting my address to my home system, as I'll be out of the office
for the next 3 days, and then off on vacation shortly thereafter. Those
of you who have sent voluminous correspondence to date (that would be
Edi, Pitt and Hohn, HA hahahahahahahahaha), you can also send it
"off-line" to [email protected].
I'll be home tomorrow, although with one car getting inspected and the
other getting its rock-smashed windshield fixed, I'm not sure how
"timely" I'll respond.
Still, you'll hear from me in one way or another. For there are still
surprises in the Tsar's bag of tricks; woe to those who write me off.
Tsar faz
Unrepentant to the End
Private message from France to Germany:
Honestly, f-g reconciliation appears to be a long shot, but make me an
offer I can't refuse.
Private message from France to Italy:
By the way, Turkey also told me he would attack Austria. I think it's
credible.
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
> >Well my friend, I'm in it with you whole hog. I'm not sure what's up
> >with John, his stab seems a bit odd to me, but in any case, you have
> >my complete friendship and support.
>
> That's very good news. However, as a result of John's stab, I am not in
> the best position to wage a war on Edi (or anyone else for that matter...)
That's fine. I'll just do my best.
> >Just let me know what you want me to do.
>
> Try to help convince John to reconsider? Seriously, any hekp you can give
> in that arena will be much appreciated.
I've fielded some press with him this turn, but he seems a bit set on
going after you, at least for the time being.
> >I'll respect whatever boundaries you propose, and I'm still
> >game on the three-way with whatever third-party you choose.
>
> That's reassuring. I'm just as committed as you. At this point, however,
> if John doesn't back off, I'm going to be forced to agree that your initial
> plan of GIT is the better option.
> Let me know what you hear and give me some ideas on where you think we
> should go.
I'm going to sit tight and stay away from you, unless you request
specific aid. You can feel free to disband F STP without fear of me,
as I will not move a unit adjacent. Other than that, I'm going to try
to wrangle something in the center to make sure John doesn't bust past
the important lines.
Thoughts?
Hohn
Private message from France to Italy:
I can just about ensure that Austria puts Vienna in motion, I think. I
could send him a message saying Russia insists on hitting Vienna, even
though I tried to call him off. Let me know if that would help.
John
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> In light of the new info, I believe RUM S SER, SER S ADR-TRI, GRE-ALB,
> ADR-TRI, VEN S ADR-TRI will work pretty well. I doubt Edi is just
> going to turtle up.
Yeah, that's why I REALLY wanted Vienna to get hit too so as to
eradicate ANY of his units as possible supporting pieces.
Oh well...
Cal
Private message from Italy to Germany:
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
LOVED your story about getting tossed in the cooler while doing
surveillance work. Well written too. Put me down for a copy of
the book you write after you retire, ok? :)
> Wish I'd had some idea that France was going to stab us
> *both* (I actually sort of expected it for me but I talked myself out of
> defending against it because I didn't want to give him provocation if I was
> wrong...)
Wish I'd known too... :)
> >I'm willing to do my best to suicide against Turkey, but I
> >may need some help simply surviving. Anything you can offer?
>
> I may be able to talk Turkey into getting off your back. He had previously
> suggested a GIT 3-way, so I think he's predisposed to look kindly toward you.
I was pretty ticked when I wrote the above and have decided to just
bide my time for a turn. I've tried to patch things up with Turkey
cuz I figure France is the bigger threat. I want to see how this turn
goes to make any firm decisions. I think we'll have LOTS more to talk
about by tomorrow.
> Let me know what you hear and what you'd like to do.
I can offer you this tip: despite my requests for them to attack Vienna
this turn, F/R are determined to attack Munich. You might want to act
accordingly.
Cal
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> Edi's now talking throw-game leverage in favor of France, so I'm all
> for taking him out as well. Obviously, we should try to keep this
> info from France. ;) In any event, France or no, I think the two of us
> will be able to work him over quite well this turn and the turns
> following. And if he's going to try to play the throw-game leverage
> wild card, I do believe we need to axe him ASAP.
Hmm, I definitely agree. He still has the potential to do some real
damage if he tries to puppet in France's direction. I'm pretty sure
France is really trying to make it up to me for last turn, so we have
a season's grace. Let's do take Edi out quick, ca va?
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> After talking this one over quite a lot, Russia and I have agreed to attack
> Munich. This means, I know, that you are not guaranteed recovering Trieste;
> it's now a guessing game. But we have concluded that taking Germany down
> another notch is very important this turn. Of course, after last turn's
> unfortunate events, I wanted you to be fully informed.
Hmmm, although it's not the news I wanted to hear, I DO appreciate being
told. I'll move accordingly.
> Russia told Austria that we would attack Vienna. If he believes it, he'll
> think he can't use Vienna for support. He'll have to support vie-tri to
> have any hope of hanging on. If Turkey comes through with the cuts, this
> would put you in Trieste. Austria suggested to me that he would attack
> Serbia if I did not support him into Venice. I already told him I would
> have nothing to do with an attack on Italy, so he might go ahead with the
> attack on Serbia. I think this info should allow you and Turkey to work
> out a devastating attack.
Well, I've asked Turkey for the appropriate help and he's agreed, but I
don't give 2 cents for that agreement... grin. All I can do is send in
my orders and see.
Cal
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
In light of the new info, I believe RUM S SER, SER S ADR-TRI, GRE-ALB,
ADR-TRI, VEN S ADR-TRI will work pretty well. I doubt Edi is just
going to turtle up.
Hohn
Private message from Germany to France:
Any chance of an FG rapprochement?
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to Turkey:
>Well my friend, I'm in it with you whole hog. I'm not sure what's up
>with John, his stab seems a bit odd to me, but in any case, you have
>my complete friendship and support.
That's very good news. However, as a result of John's stab, I am not in
the best position to wage a war on Edi (or anyone else for that matter...)
>Just let me know what you want me to do.
Try to help convince John to reconsider? Seriously, any hekp you can give
in that arena will be much appreciated.
>I'll respect whatever boundaries you propose, and I'm still
>game on the three-way with whatever third-party you choose.
That's reassuring. I'm just as committed as you. At this point, however,
if John doesn't back off, I'm going to be forced to agree that your initial
plan of GIT is the better option.
Let me know what you hear and give me some ideas on where you think we
should go.
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to Italy:
>Well, now that France, Turkey and Russia have stabbed me
>all on the same turn, and France has stabbed YOU, perhaps
>we have more reason to talk, y'figure?
I figure so. Wish I'd had some idea that France was going to stab us
*both* (I actually sort of expected it for me but I talked myself out of
defending against it because I didn't want to give him provocation if I was
wrong...)
>I'm willing to do my best to suicide against Turkey, but I
>may need some help simply surviving. Anything you can offer?
I may be able to talk Turkey into getting off your back. He had previously
suggested a GIT 3-way, so I think he's predisposed to look kindly toward you.
Let me know what you hear and what you'd like to do.
-Pitt
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Passing this on as it interests both of us tactically. I've just
finished TWO softball games in a row, so I have no energy to set
the board up. Hopefully, we can still make moves to get me Trieste.
I'll look at it tomorrow. Hopefully, I can get back to you before
the moves tomorrow night. If no, well, you know what I'm doing and
can act accordingly.
Cal
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> After talking this one over quite a lot, Russia and I have agreed to attack
> Munich. This means, I know, that you are not guaranteed recovering Trieste;
> it's now a guessing game. But we have concluded that taking Germany down
> another notch is very important this turn. Of course, after last turn's
> unfortunate events, I wanted you to be fully informed.
>
> Russia told Austria that we would attack Vienna. If he believes it, he'll
> think he can't use Vienna for support. He'll have to support vie-tri to
> have any hope of hanging on. If Turkey comes through with the cuts, this
> would put you in Trieste. Austria suggested to me that he would attack
> Serbia if I did not support him into Venice. I already told him I would
> have nothing to do with an attack on Italy, so he might go ahead with the
> attack on Serbia. I think this info should allow you and Turkey to work
> out a devastating attack.
>
> Don't hesitate to contact me about any of this.
Private message from Germany to England:
Yo.
I'm back.
Sorry for the sudden and unexplained silence but I have been incommunicado
for a few days. It's a long story but you may get a kick out of it.
I had to complete that investigation I spoke about last week. For obvious
reasons, I can't be too specific, but the reason we were watching the perp
is that he was suspected of stealing cars from my client (hell, they *knew*
he was lifting the cars, they just didn't have any proof). The Boston P.D.
(a good department as a whole) apparently only likes to investigate open
and shut cases unless they're drug cases, so they were lukewarm about my
client's losses. That's good for us, I suppose, since we get paid to
provide them with all the proof.
Well, as it turns out, the perp not only likes to work nights, he likes to
travel. He lives in East Boston but he gets around, including NH and ME.
I spent the weekend following him, looking for him to snatch a vehicle, my
trusty camcorder and 35mm camera ready to record his actions for posterity.
Saturday night, he went to a small town in central NH. Small enough that a
truck with MA plates has a hard time trying to hang around without looking
suspicious. Somebody (not the perp or his buddies) called the local deputy
dawg at about 5:00 a.m. Sunday morning and he cruised by to check me out
(professional hazard).
As a rule, we try not to divulge our activities to local authorities unless
we know they're cool (on one investigation I did, the local chief was
hooked up with the perp in a scam to sell seized firearms...). So, I tried
to slough the deputy off with an off-the-cuff cover story about how I was
supposed to meet my buddy, John Kurtz (whose name I had snagged off the
mailbox next door and whose house had no lights on and no vehicle in the
driveway) to go fishing. The deputy bought it (or seemed to anyway) and
left. However, he'd taken down the info off my license plate and driver's
license before he left and he was back in about 5 minutes, weapon drawn,
and ordering me to get out of the vehicle.
I, of course, did as instructed. He looked *very* twitchy and I wasn't
about to make him any more nervous. I was Mr. Compliance.
After he cuffed me and frisked me (thank ghod I wasn't carrying!), he
escorted me to his cruiser and allowed me to ask him a few questions like,
"What the hell is going on?!". Well, it turns out that, when I was in
college about 17 years ago, I got a traffic citation for speeding that I
never paid (hey, I had so many it was easy to miss one...). This citation
was still outstanding, my right to drive in NH had been suspended, and a
bench warrant had been issued for my arrest.
Now, it's important to rememeber, this was a *traffic* citation, not a
warrant for murder... Barney Fife apparently had a problem with that
distinction, however. He seemed to think that I was staking out mon ami
Kurtz's house in order to rape his wife, bugger his kids, and marry the
family dog or something. At this point, I decided that discretion was the
better part of valor and explained what I was really doing, including
showing him my PI ID.
Big problem.
In MA, the state doesn't actually issue PI ID's. The company gets a PI
license suitable for framing and then issues its own ID's to its
investigators. In NH, they apparently issue ID's, badges, bullet-proof
jock straps, etc. The Commish didn't think that my ID was real and was
even more convinced that I was, at best, a con man, and at worst, the
trigger man on the grassy knoll in Dallas.
So, I got a nice ride down to the local police station (which apparently
also doubled as the jail, city hall, barber shop, and town garage...) In I
go for mug shots, fingerprints, et al. (He was a little squeamish, so I
was spared the indignities of a strip search.) Once we're done, he puts me
in the lock-up and proceeds to go for breakfast.
Now, of course, you're probably wondering - what about your phone call?
Well, me too. Barney tells me, however, that, as long as they don't
question me, they can hold me for 24 hours without letting me make any
calls and, since he hasn't Mirandized me and isn't going to question me
until he hears from his boss (who'll be in later), I'll just have to sit
tight. (I checked later and, believe it or not, he's right.)
So, I camp out for the morning (I actually got some sleep since I was
beat). The Chief shows up about 2:00 p.m. and comes in to talk to me. I
waive my rights (figuring if I request a lawyer, I'll be waiting here for a
week) and try to explain the situation to him. He listens, cogitates for a
moment, and says he's going to check out my story. Great, thinks I, and I
start to give him the phone number. He says he already knows it and off he
goes.
Bigger problem.
There is a little, mom-and-pop security guard operation in NH that operates
under the name of Northeast Security. In NH, we DBA as Northeast
Intelligence Group but my ID says Northeast Security. Chiefie calls the NH
Northeast Security, who tell him that they never heard of me. He comes
back with the deputy and they proceed to try "good cop, bad cop" on me.
Right. I've been doing investigations, interrogations, and interviews for
15 years and these bozos think I'm going to be impressed by their
Mutt-and-Jeff routine. I tell them that I've got nothing to say and ask to
make a call, which, finally, they allow me to do.
I call my boss (who owns the company) and explain the situation to him. At
first, he thinks I'm kidding but, when he's done laughing, he gets on the
ball to square things away. Between him, me, and our Director of
Investigations, we probably know and have personal, as well as professional
relationships, with most of the law enforcement organizations in MA, both
local, state, and federal, as well as a few in NH.
A few phone calls and about 30 minutes later, Chief Littlebrain gets a call
from the Asst. Commissioner of the NH Dept. of Public Safety, basically
asking him what the hell he's doing and telling him to release me before he
starts an investigation of the East Podunk PD. Minutes later, I'm a free
man again. Unfortunately, TweedleDum and TweedleDee had already charged me
with criminal trespass, loitering, and stalking(!) so, while I can go, I
have to come back on Monday to be arraigned. That was actually fun,
though, because I got to watch the clerk magistrate grill deputy dawg and
Chiefie. (I got the oustanding traffic citation dismissed, too, which,
since I was, in fact, guilty of that, sort of paid back for all the hassle.)
So, anyway, that whole process pretty much trashed the weekend and Monday.
I had to resume the interrupted investigation Tuesday but, luckily, the
perp never twigged to any of this other stuff. Finally, Wednesday night,
he got careless and I got some good home movies of him snatching a Caddy.
I had to go to court today to testify at his arraignment and he's now
cooling his heels pending bail.
The upshot - I'm now back and ready to play. I know it's late in the week
but there's still plenty of time for us to figure out how to spank France
. Please drop me a line and let's talk.
-Pitt
It is dark, very dark.
There is a dim, yellowish light in the distance but it grows no brighter or
larger as you approach.
You move slowly but surely as the ground here is flat and featureless, at
least what you can see of it through the dim light and grayish, slightly
foul haze that clings to you.
>From afar, as from a deep well, tinny and faint, a voice calls out:
"hello...?"
You pause, listening closely.
"can anyone hear me? anyone?"
The voice is weak and faint but clear, almost as if it were right next to you.
"is anyone there?"
You can't locate the source of the voice, so you resume your shuffle toward
the light, hoping for some surcease from this endless, mindless wandering
when you stumble and almost fall. There is something on the ground at your
feet. You bend down to look closer.
"it's me. is that you?"
"Yes", you answer. "Who are you?"
"the kaiser. don't you remember me?"
You take a step back in surprise. , you think.
You look closer and then you see it. The dim yellow light glints off it
evily. A dark, sweet-smelling substance clings to it and forms a small
pool below it. You reach out to touch it and it seems to slip deeper into
his back. He groans softly.
"What happened?", you ask.
"the frog. he did it. without cause."
"He must have had some reason", you say.
"personal gain. selfishness."
"What of the others? How have they reacted?", you inquire.
"nothing. the lion and the bear gloated. the others - nothing."
You rise. This scene, while strangely appropriate for this desolate
setting, is too grim even for you. You shake your head, mutter something
about "how the mighty have fallen", and move on. You leave no parting
words, offer no assistance, give no encouragement. Instead, you ponder the
inevitable sadness of it all and wonder how you will react when it is your
time. Will you see it coming? Will you know the moment?
Meanwhile, behind you, you hear:
"it's not too late, brother. there's still time."
"it's not too late."
"please..."
Private message from Turkey to Master:
Jim,
Had some phone conversations with Edi. He tried selling me on the
idea that I should leave his centers and work with him still. I
expressed my dubiousness.
He called again, and I told him the straight dope, that I couldn't do
what he asked, and that I was sorry, but I honestly felt it was the
best thing for me. He was unhappy, but understood. Then he did
something that I felt was rather remarkable, in that he said he
believed he could engineer a French victory. I told him that if he
felt he had enough power to give throw-game leverage to France, more
power to him, but that I suspected the rest of the board would show
themselves to be better players than that. I said it was a bit early
for talk of solos for France with him only going to about ten centers
or so for now.
I was surprised he spoke of throw-game leverage to France at this time
to be honest. He isn't in very good shape, for one, to make his
threat very credible. More importantly, his threat convinced me he
must be eliminated at all costs, ASAP.
I had been intending to do the safe thing and support myself. In the
most recent phone conversation, when I honestly told him I was not
leaving his centers, I also said I honestly didn't want to see him
leave the game before Mark (which is true), so he should look to
Vienna's defense. I told him that I was going to play it safe.
Now, I'm going to go for it and attack BUD with support. We'll see if
we can vaporize Edi completetly. If not, hey, maybe we can come
close.
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Regarding Bud & Ser, I'm still casting my vote to take Budapest out.
> Edi's still writing me those "do this for your own good" letters...
> :)
Edi's now talking throw-game leverage in favor of France, so I'm all
for taking him out as well. Obviously, we should try to keep this
info from France. ;) In any event, France or no, I think the two of us
will be able to work him over quite well this turn and the turns
following. And if he's going to try to play the throw-game leverage
wild card, I do believe we need to axe him ASAP.
Luck to us!
Hohn
Private message from France to Russia:
I sent Italy the word. Hope he takes it like a man.
Actually, as long as he knows what's going on, he should be in Trieste.
In fact, his orders are the same regardless.
Private message from France to Italy:
After talking this one over quite a lot, Russia and I have agreed to attack
Munich. This means, I know, that you are not guaranteed recovering Trieste;
it's now a guessing game. But we have concluded that taking Germany down
another notch is very important this turn. Of course, after last turn's
unfortunate events, I wanted you to be fully informed.
Russia told Austria that we would attack Vienna. If he believes it, he'll
think he can't use Vienna for support. He'll have to support vie-tri to
have any hope of hanging on. If Turkey comes through with the cuts, this
would put you in Trieste. Austria suggested to me that he would attack
Serbia if I did not support him into Venice. I already told him I would
have nothing to do with an attack on Italy, so he might go ahead with the
attack on Serbia. I think this info should allow you and Turkey to work
out a devastating attack.
Don't hesitate to contact me about any of this.
Private message from France to Germany:
Pitt,
Edi, as you know, is working mightily to effect F-G reconciliation. I do
consider this worth exploring. Your conditions (recover some centers) are
not excessive, in my view. Honestly, if Italy had stayed East, I'd want to
take my chances against you, but F Wes causes me a lot of trouble.
The most important reason we might be able to pull this off is that we both
seem to be rational players. Unlike a couple of others in this game who
launch vendettas or carry grudges, we just make the best moves for our
countries. I saw you inching my way, not moving on the eastern front, and
that I had
an opportunity to make some gains. So I struck. Nothing personal.
Same for you, I expect. (Hohn is rational, too, but he thinks he can win,
so he can't be trusted on anything.)
Now the question is whether the situation calls for rethinking. I'm open
to suggestion. IMO, the game is destined for a draw, so the main question
is who will be in it. You and I are probably in, and so is Turkey, like it
or not. Italy might survive, although if he comes after me, Turkey will
eat his lunch. He's a fool if he can't see it. Edi, for all his efforts,
is probably doomed; although he thinks that F-G alliance keeps him alive, I
don't see why. So the problem for us is to ensure that we are indeed part
of the draw. The only thing to prevent that outcome would be F-G war
raging while Turkey mops up the easy pickings on his side of the board.
One thing that would help launch a new F-G alliance would be if you'd
disband Nwy instead of GOB. Nwy is secure, so it's not a risk, and GOB
can still help you defend Germany if I were to double-cross you. If you
move the fleet to Baltic, it can either support your units or convoy an
army to Livonia. This would indicate you are ready to cooperate without
leaving you exposed. We can talk over other tactical options after we
discuss this one.
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Whoa! Guess I should've read *all* the moves results before I sent out
my broadcast message, eh? So much for "I/F solidarity!" Should be a
hum-dinger of a finale for all of you. Enjoy.
Faz
Private message from Turkey to Master:
[Note press delivery destinations. If people want to open this topic
up to a larger forum, then that's fine with me, although if that's the
case, I suggest r.g.d. Otherwise, I say let folks read about it
after the game's over so we don't get bogged down here.]
Mark,
> "Soooo....this is what it comes to, eh? Russia fights loyally with its
> allies, and we are accused of suiciding? Suicide? If it be suicide,
> then it was Kevorkian-like Physician-assisted suicide from the combined
> Medical Houses of Europe.
Qualify it as you choose. It's still suicide.
> Russia would have preferred to strike for
> Vienna, but that move depended on a couple other actors contributing. As
> he has done *every* turn since 1902, Turkey prefers to be in the dominant
> position, dictating terms, vice cooperating.
My orders were all set for an attack on Budapest, until John indicated
that you and he were unilaterally pulling out of the attack.
> (Oh, but thanks for
> convoying me to Switzerland, Hohn; much appreciated, and tactically
> brilliant, if I don't say so myself.)
Psst! Hey Mark!
It was a _joke_. The other option would have been to hold. Bo-ring.
> Turkey accusing Russia of
> suiciding is as lame (or even moreso) than the initial accusation of
> Russian lameness. The only "lameness" in Russia are my legs and
> backside, from being stabbed and kicked around all game, like some
> sandlot football or whipped cur. I'm "limping lamely" out of my
> gravesite, is all. And in no small measure due to Turkish blows.
> Harumph.
Excuse me while I burn your straw man in the town square, Mark, but
I've never once contested that I've been an architect of your
downfall. That still doesn't change the fact that you committed
suicide this past turn.
> In fact, here's "lame." Russia writes letters out the kiester -- true,
> as of late only to the West -- and gets drilled repeatedly this game.
> Yet others, with their 20-hour workdays, their weird workshifts, or their
> game attitudes, can't be "bothered" with communicating or with seeing a
> different board approach. *That* is lame. What of other's "efforts,"
> (ha!) -- those who figured Russia wasn't worth communicating to on a
> 'real' mutual basis, and thus wrote only self-serving pap -- can we not
> call that "lame" as well? As for the newly-stabbed victims, well...the
> proof is in the pudding there, too. People who live in glass houses....
Actually, I've been doing plenty of negotiation lately, Mark. Just
not with you. You quickly established yourself to be unreliable in my
opinion (which is the only opinion that matters, with respect to my
own moves), and then later on you became mostly irrelevant to me. I
rejected your offers because for one I wasn't sure of their sincerity,
and for two because I felt it was in my better interest to continue
working with Edi at those points.
But I was never remiss in my negotiations when they mattered. For
example, on the first turn or two with you. Then again on the turn I
stabbed you.
> If you call Russia's sacrifice "suicide," then the Alamo was suicide;
> falling on a grenade to save your buddy is suicide; and (gasp!) Obi-Whan
> Kenobi's fight with Darth Vader!!) can be considered "suicide." Would
> any real person make such comparisons. Russia begs to differ on
> terminology.
You exited the game without even trying to survive. That's as good as
suicide in my book.
I'm honestly disappointed, Mark. I firmly believe that good players
should always act in their own best interests. Survival is key to
that, of course. To subordinate your own interests to John to the
point where you will accept death rather than try to continue is not
Good Play, not in my opinion. Please take that opinion for whatever
worth you choose; I won't mind.
The only valid exception that comes to mind is throw-game leverage,
and since that is a situation where you would be dead anyway, or when
another person solos thus resulting in a loss, there's no real
downside. Maintaining credibility and honor in a situation like that
is as good a reason as any.
But that's not the case here. It's too early for throw-game leverage,
and your one unit wasn't occupying that crucial role with respect to
throw-game leverage in any event.
I've been down to one, and I eventually made it up to a decent number
of units and a place in a draw. I've been down to two, and I've made
it back to win the game. So long as there is life, there is hope.
Gosh, Hohn Cho an optimist. Who'd a thunk it?
> Austria stays at three, and, knowing the "birds of a feather" mentality,
> Russia expects to see at least an attempted rappraochement between A and
> T...although these two buzzards will now be one very large bird, and one
> smaller, squawking one....with the runt always looking to check his
> tailfeathers. To see these foes come to blows before my death was one
> small wish come true.
Hate to tell you, but aside from your relatively quick collapse, your
actions had no impact on my decision to stab Edi. It was sheerly a
decision based on perceived self-interest. No offense.
> Reality check: yes, I'm going on vacation next week. And yes, I'll then
> be in the field for all summer, returning in mid-August to get ready to
> teach. But it wasn't for either of those reasons that I chose to support
> France.
I think that's too bad, because those are actually reasons I could
understand more readily. Or at least a reason to turn the position
over to someone.
> Quite honestly, I could've stuck around on someone else's
> perpetual "life support" system as a 1-center pawn (an influential one,
> yes, but one still destined to never regain my homeland and thus build).
> And I wanted to do that with Hohn, and Pitt, and anyone else willing to
> deal. I've had my share of vacuous words. Maybe when you're at 10, or
> 6, or even at 3, you can legitimately question the move.
I can most certainly question the move. Every one of us has been in a
similar situation before, Mark.
> But I saw the
> chance to better aid an ally this way -- with me in MUN, I become an
> obstacle to French expansion.
If you're playing toady to some other power to the extent that you
choose death over an attempt at life, you're not playing to win (or
participate in a draw). And playing to win is what this game's about,
IMO. Show me an "expert" player (whatever that is) and I'll show you
a cutthroat, drive-for-18-or-settle-reluctantly-for-a-draw player.
> And I honestly figured Edi and Pitt would
> order in such a way as to ensure I would've died (once again, fooled even
> in their antipathy).
Never know unless you try. And your way, you had no chance for
survival.
> This *is*, last time I checked, only a game, for those more rabid for
> victory than me....
I'm surprised you're trotting this tired argument out, Mark.
Of course it's just a game. Why do you think it took a back seat to
my job? Funny, you were just criticizing me for that, weren't you?
But if you're going to take on the endeavor of playing in such a game,
especially one with other "experts," you _should_ be taking it
seriously. Seriously enough to try to fulfill the objectives of the
game, namely recording a win or a draw, IMO.
Those are my honest and sincere opinions on a subject that, in the
context of Diplomacy, I feel strongly about. And as blunt and
strongly worded as those opinions may be, and even considering the
obviously opposing viewpoints we're taking here, I intend no offense.
There's also no ulterior motive here, since you are after all now gone
from the game. I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em.
And again, you and anyone else should take my opinions for exactly
what they are: merely my opinions. Assign whatever worth you choose
to them.
Hohn
>Ex-Russia might want to take another look at the board in regard to the
>French-Italian relations and he will see that the Italian has turned
>against him despite the fact that Turkey has repeatedly stabbed him.
The Italian Armada is preparing to execute one of its famous "feint west,
strike east" manouevers; a trick with which the Grand Duke must himself be
painfully familiar. Yes, it's slow, but it has proved to be *so* effective.
Or it might be the second half of a drawn-out "feint east, strike west",
it's so hard to tell, that's the beauty of the routine.
Or possibly the exTsar is colorblind and failed to notice what was going
on. Those greens look a lot like deep blues. But the yellows really do
stand out from their background, don't they?
Gentle King Jamie
>>The broadcasts just aren't *long* enough, that's the problem with this game.
>>
>>Gentle King Jamie
>
>Do you mind restating that in an appropriate Ghodstoo format, we do have an
>audience to satisfy...non-paying as it may be.
>
>---
Oh, yeah, sure.
The, uh, white knights, of, uh, the... round table, er, set sail in the
sunset, their, mm, flags... no, chargers....
Oh screw it.
GKJ
Private message from Master to Turkey:
Hi guys,
I've been travelling (in Chicago actually, the Bulls' parade is today) and
having
some technical difficulties in accessing E-Mail. It is up again just now
for this brief message.
I won't get to reading mail until Tuesday. Thank you for your patience
with me. Seems like there is
activity anyway, so the game must be progressing.
Talk to you tomorrow,
Jim
>The broadcasts just aren't *long* enough, that's the problem with this game.
>
>Gentle King Jamie
Do you mind restating that in an appropriate Ghodstoo format, we do have an
audience to satisfy...non-paying as it may be.
---
As for the Russian salutation, I might add that the main reason I stayed
quiet vs Russia in the last two seasons was that it appeared that the
higher communication gave more attention to our plight and as such I felt
that a low profile was needed. I thank the Russian for his final move which
allowed me to pull off the temporary stop in the east against the Turk and
the Italians.
Ex-Russia might want to take another look at the board in regard to the
French-Italian relations and he will see that the Italian has turned
against him despite the fact that Turkey has repeatedly stabbed him.
In retrospect I still find some of Russia's diplomatic moves and slashing
manner against multiple neighbors rather odd, however I suspect that the
odd combination of player styles, backgrounds, combined with the higher
profile of the game may have encouraged Russia to take a more risky course
of action than he might otherwise attend to. Have a good vacation and we
will see you when we see you.
Edi
Private message from France to Germany:
Okay, we'll discuss things further after the builds.
FYI, I almost called off the attack on you the day moves processed. If
you'd been able to communicate more, it might not have happened at all.
Too bad real life gets in the way of the important stuff now and again.
John
Private message from Germany to France:
John,
>Edi, as you know, is working mightily to effect F-G reconciliation. I do
>consider this worth exploring.
Glad to hear that.
You know, I kicked myself after the moves processed because I was almost
*certain* that you were going to stab me (the suggestion for BER-SIL, TYR S
MUN-BOH tipped your hand) but I talked myself out of it. I was afraid that
I might be wrong and I didn't want to give you an excuse to attack me if I
moved to defend prematurely.
It was a good short-term move on your part, although I don't think that you
are in a position to realize any ultimate long-term gain, especially given
Turkey's position and Italy's moves.
Anyway, we've now both been on the receiving end of an unprovoked attack by
the other. Last time, Edi helped convince me to ally with you to our
mutual gain. Hopefully, we'll be able to do it again this time, with you
making the decision to re-ally with me.
>Your conditions (recover some centers) are not excessive, in my view.
Thanks. I sincerely want to achieve a rapprochement but, in order to do
so, I have to feel that I'm not going to expose myself to another stab. At
the moment, I think I'm in pretty good shape to give you a run for your
money. Oh, you'd get the better of me eventually but not, I think, before
Hohn could pull off a solo. That's why I think it is still in both our
best interests to get back together.
>The most important reason we might be able to pull this off is that we both
>seem to be rational players. Unlike a couple of others in this game who
>launch vendettas or carry grudges, we just make the best moves for our
>countries.
I'm glad you feel that way. I play to maximize my interests, always, but,
after all, it is only a game. It's foolish to allow an emotional response
to another player's moves or press to affect your plans. No matter what
has gone before, you always need to step back and examine the current
situation in terms of what is best for you *now*. If that means working
with the guy who just stabbed you (so long as you can work out a plan that
benefits both of you), so be it.
After all, I'm a Diplomat - I have no morals.
;-)
>(Hohn is rational, too, but he thinks he can win,
>so he can't be trusted on anything.)
heh...If he doesn't have to worry about an FG alliance, he might well be
able to pull of a solo, though.
>IMO, the game is destined for a draw
Agreed. Unless several of us totally screw up, we should have a draw.
>You and I are probably in, and so is Turkey, like it
>or not.
I'd agree that you and Turkey are a lock and, if my prediction that Turkey
solos if you and I don't patch things up is true, I guess I'm in, too.
>Italy might survive, although if he comes after me, Turkey will
>eat his lunch.
Eventually, yes. I suspect that Hohn will polish off Austria, first, and
then munch on Italy. In fact, I'd be very surprised if Hohn wasn't pushing
Cal to move on you and promising him some Austrian SC's as part of the deal.
>Edi, for all his efforts,
>is probably doomed; although he thinks that F-G alliance keeps him alive, I
>don't see why.
It keeps him alive for awhile anyway, if we move our MUN and BER armies
east and, right now, I think Edi is just trying to buy time to stay in the
game. Thus, FG is his best bet.
>So the problem for us is to ensure that we are indeed part
>of the draw. The only thing to prevent that outcome would be F-G war
>raging while Turkey mops up the easy pickings on his side of the board.
Yes, absolutely.
>One thing that would help launch a new F-G alliance would be if you'd
>disband Nwy instead of GOB. Nwy is secure, so it's not a risk, and GOB
>can still help you defend Germany if I were to double-cross you. If you
>move the fleet to Baltic, it can either support your units or convoy an
>army to Livonia. This would indicate you are ready to cooperate without
>leaving you exposed. We can talk over other tactical options after we
>discuss this one.
Agreed. Consider it done with this message. And, consider it a sign of my
good faith and willingness to work with you again. I'm counting on you to
do the same.
-Pitt
> "[email protected]"
>
> Is this the final proof that we need to know Manus is a space cadet?
>
Guilty as charged. :-)
SYS,
Manus
"[email protected]"
Is this the final proof that we need to know Manus is a space cadet?
Private message from England to France:
Bad Mediterranean thing.
Hm.
I don't have my trusty MacDip here at home. My gut feeling is that you have
to continue to use practically everything against Pitt, because you've let
him into the North Sea. You have to crush him now. Sheesh. I really think
you shouldn't have let him into Nth.
Well, we'll see what he disbands. Probably the backward fleet.
Probably you have at least a year until Hohn does anything that will
actually be useful to you, maybe longer.
I'll try a serious analysis tomorrow.
GKJ
The broadcasts just aren't *long* enough, that's the problem with this game.
Gentle King Jamie
>From the ethereal darkness, the disembodied voice of Tsar Faz can be
heard wailing plaintively, yet accusingly, as certain European monarchs
listen in rapt silence...
"Soooo....this is what it comes to, eh? Russia fights loyally with its
allies, and we are accused of suiciding? Suicide? If it be suicide,
then it was Kevorkian-like Physician-assisted suicide from the combined
Medical Houses of Europe. Russia would have preferred to strike for
Vienna, but that move depended on a couple other actors contributing. As
he has done *every* turn since 1902, Turkey prefers to be in the dominant
position, dictating terms, vice cooperating. (Oh, but thanks for
convoying me to Switzerland, Hohn; much appreciated, and tactically
brilliant, if I don't say so myself.) Turkey accusing Russia of
suiciding is as lame (or even moreso) than the initial accusation of
Russian lameness. The only "lameness" in Russia are my legs and
backside, from being stabbed and kicked around all game, like some
sandlot football or whipped cur. I'm "limping lamely" out of my
gravesite, is all. And in no small measure due to Turkish blows.
Harumph.
In fact, here's "lame." Russia writes letters out the kiester -- true,
as of late only to the West -- and gets drilled repeatedly this game.
Yet others, with their 20-hour workdays, their weird workshifts, or their
game attitudes, can't be "bothered" with communicating or with seeing a
different board approach. *That* is lame. What of other's "efforts,"
(ha!) -- those who figured Russia wasn't worth communicating to on a
'real' mutual basis, and thus wrote only self-serving pap -- can we not
call that "lame" as well? As for the newly-stabbed victims, well...the
proof is in the pudding there, too. People who live in glass houses....
If you call Russia's sacrifice "suicide," then the Alamo was suicide;
falling on a grenade to save your buddy is suicide; and (gasp!) Obi-Whan
Kenobi's fight with Darth Vader!!) can be considered "suicide." Would
any real person make such comparisons. Russia begs to differ on
terminology.
Russia had a chance to help annihilate Austria. *Nothing* would have
been more satisfying than to occupy the Teflon King's Viennese palace and
inflict some reverse humiliation on him. However, that option involved
trusting the East -- and we know what "trust" means to A/T/G types. So
we jumped at the chance to instead hurt the man who, when we had the
chance to keep Russia at 2-3 and solidify the Eastern Ramparts against
A/T, did nothing but stab me. To see Kaiser Pitt reduced three this turn
-- and be a potential "creme filling" in the F/T Oreo cookie -- well,
that's equally good to see.
Austria stays at three, and, knowing the "birds of a feather" mentality,
Russia expects to see at least an attempted rappraochement between A and
T...although these two buzzards will now be one very large bird, and one
smaller, squawking one....with the runt always looking to check his
tailfeathers. To see these foes come to blows before my death was one
small wish come true.
Italy has a special pantheon reserved in the afterlife. He, like
England, was loyal and set his sights on a common goal. France owes
Italy eternal gratitude for turning East and stopping the A/T meance.
And we remember how one little BOH unit tied up multiple enemy forces for
quite awhile *and* helped Cal get centers...and we smile, from the grave,
about that.
To England, who always wanted Good Works with Russia and instead got
Buffoonery Personified from my poor play: I wish you survival and the
chance to hurt common enemies. You deserved better. I *told* you I'd
die before you (gad, what a thing to be right about)!
To France, who awoke from an early-game slumber, beset upon by two
enemies and a menacing Hun, only to now be the game co-leader: treat
well your green and navy blue friends. See if you can make the Hun
grovel on your terms, or else crush his big behind. Listen well to the
Sultan, but when his forked tongue emerges, make sure you have snake-oil
antidote -- just in case. And for the Archduke, well...if *he's* still
around after a few turns, buy a Teflon frying pan from him, but don't
take any of his lottery tickets or deeds to the Brooklyn Bridge.
Russia enjoyed the heck out of this game, if only to see "true ghods" in
action. Many of your game moves drove me to distraction (obviously, as I
was outplayed and now dead), but it was still a good thing to try, and I
hope you guys are enjoying it as well (and you Observers, too).
First-class players, all the way!
Reality check: yes, I'm going on vacation next week. And yes, I'll then
be in the field for all summer, returning in mid-August to get ready to
teach. But it wasn't for either of those reasons that I chose to support
France. Quite honestly, I could've stuck around on someone else's
perpetual "life support" system as a 1-center pawn (an influential one,
yes, but one still destined to never regain my homeland and thus build).
And I wanted to do that with Hohn, and Pitt, and anyone else willing to
deal. I've had my share of vacuous words. Maybe when you're at 10, or
6, or even at 3, you can legitimately question the move. But I saw the
chance to better aid an ally this way -- with me in MUN, I become an
obstacle to French expansion. And I honestly figured Edi and Pitt would
order in such a way as to ensure I would've died (once again, fooled even
in their antipathy). We gambled that France's move would succeed,
whereas a Russian thrust may or may not have succeeded. Better to go for
the sure thing, even if meant my death. Again, question it if you will,
but from the game perspective, I thought this was the better way. My
death is the last strategic move I could do to influence the game. Sure,
it frees me up for other games, as well as my real job and life (some of
you should relate, as mentioned earlier), but that was always secondary.
I fight in every game to the death, and a one-center Russia (while
discussed with France even until the last day of deadline) would've been
just ducky. But so is helping reduce Pitt, and watching Austria be the
speedbump in the middle of the F/T/I highway.
This *is*, last time I checked, only a game, for those more rabid for
victory than me....
Russia thus ceases its speaking from the grave. BirSauron may now return
to hearing his own dark whispers across the Transylvanian countryside
(those are jackals outside your walls, BeerSon, not voices of salvation).
Hohn "Go with the Flow" Cho may return to his busy work schedule,
emerging to make a quickie deal with his next accomplice in crime. The
Pitt-Meister can find a way to retain his 6 in the face of a big E/F, and
ruminate on his stab (ah, the poetic justice of it all). We wish him
every offer he gave to us -- and "more." And the West, well...EFI can
see what transpires, make the appropriate deals, and hopefully -- once,
perhaps -- say, "thanks, Tsar," for the ultimate sacrifice and for
helping. At least that's we hope."
And with that, the willowly wisp of Tsar Faz -- shrouded in liquid white,
just as his dissolved units were all game -- ascended (A-scended!?, says
England) into Dip Valhalla, where he could better watch the events on the
board unfold.
Good gaming to you all, and to Jim-Bob: thanks for the chance to play,
and for being an outstanding pubber, GM, and friend. We shall yet cross
paths again...it was *great* to talk again with you during this game's
course. You're a good man, as are all these board rats.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Germany to Italy:
>Told you we'd have more to talk about after last turn, eh? grin
heh...
>With Edi around, I can't mount as effective an
>attack on France. For one, I'll have to remove a unit this turn and
>I'll also have to watch my back for a while. sigh
I know what you mean. Still, what are the chances that Edi might back off
on you in order to allow you the opportunity to assist me with France?
It's starting to look like an F draw (or, more realistically, an F or T
solo). If you and work on France, Edi can work on Turkey (maybe even with
your help).
-Pitt
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Message from [email protected] as Italy to Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
> Yuck. I really didn't want to see Edi stay at three centres. France
> being at 11 is bad enough, but Edi having control of his own centres,
> well... (you're a lawyer, can't we declare him incompetant and get power
> of attorney re: his units? grin)(Hmm, if that would have worked, we
> should have tried it on Mark a long time ago!)
Heh.
France is at ten, only. And he can't build in MAR, which is a happy
thing. I suspect Pitt will disband F GOB, and I think you're right
about Edi disbanding F ALB.
Edi's moves were good. Oh well, I suppose it'd be too much to ask for
for this to be easy...
> Ah well, I guess we have a lot to talk about with Pitt right now, don't
> we? I'm going to be away til tomorrow night so I won't be answering
> letters. I'll take a close look at tactics then. Right now, it seems
> as if it would still be best to wipe out Austria. I admit working WITH
> Edi makes some sense, but I doubt if he would be trustful enough to
> coordinate things properly and it would also block you into the corner
> and render your units ineffectual. I'm assuming Edi removes the fleet.
I agree, wiping Edi out still seems like the right call. He's being
difficult still, and he's trying to deal for a center or two back, and
I'm telling him no, and he's still threatening throw-game leverage.
Looks like it's me, you and Pitt against John, Edi and Jamie.
> I definitely request you don't BUILD any.
Fleets, I presume you mean. Three armies comin' up.
> More after I get back.
Sounds good. What do you think about your removal? I'm thinking A
TUN might be best, and even if John retreats to ROM or TUN, we can
kick him out in fall. Thoughts?
Hohn
Private message from France to Italy:
I did want to mention one other thing. This game is destined for a draw.
We are all role players, in that sense. The question for Italy is whether
you will be part of the draw. I am quite certain I will be, but your
situation is more precarious. That's just the nature of playing Italy, and
I do think that you have done about as well as anyone can do from what is
no doubt the worst starting position in the game. I hope you make it to
the end.
Private message from France to Italy:
Let's review the situation. Not out of the goodness of my heart, but
because I have the greatest interest in having Italy as a friend, I have
supported you, never attacked you, and now, because you found it so
distressing to be left in the dark, told you everything I had planned.
Your response is to move against me, leaving yourself, I might note, open
to Turkey's inevitable attack. The only way your attack can succeed in any
reasonable time is to allow Turkish fleets out of the corner. Are you
really ready to trust him that far? Has he done anything but double-cross
you? Why should he do otherwise? Not that Hohn's a bad guy, but Turkey
has no interest in a health Italy.
I also observe that Turkey's so-called attack on Austria was awfully weak.
In fact, it's almost as if Austria knew what was coming. Granted, Edi's
tactics were nothing short of brilliant, but still, knowing Turkey would be
so limp-wristed must have made his task easier. My prediction: Turkey will
shove Austrian armies right up your behind. You might like to know that
the first message I received was from Edi, on how to wipe out Italy.
My builds are obvious, so you know what's coming. I suggest that when you
select which unit to remove, you consider what would defend Italy against
A-T. You will have France's help, even now, if you only ask.
Retreats
Private message from Germany to Italy:
>LOVED your story about getting tossed in the cooler while doing
>surveillance work. Well written too. Put me down for a copy of
>the book you write after you retire, ok? :)
Deal. Though I'm happy to say that most of the funny stories don't happen
*to* me, I do see lots of strange stuff in this business. Most of it is
people being so _stupid_ that you have to laugh, like the guy who stole
dozens of credit card numbers from his employer's customer accounts,
ordered about $75K worth of goodies, had it all delivered right to his
front door, and whose first question when apprehended was "How'd you know
it was me?...or the two-timing wife and her boss who all but stripped each
other in the elevator on the way to their hotel room and who voluntarily
sucked face with each in the hallway so I (ostensibly the hotel "courtesy
manager") could snap a few pictures for them to remember their stay by...
Maybe I *should* write a book...
>I was pretty ticked when I wrote the above and have decided to just
>bide my time for a turn. I've tried to patch things up with Turkey
>cuz I figure France is the bigger threat. I want to see how this turn
>goes to make any firm decisions. I think we'll have LOTS more to talk
>about by tomorrow.
OK, looking forward to it (and hoping that I'll still be in a position to
do something useful).
>I can offer you this tip: despite my requests for them to attack Vienna
>this turn, F/R are determined to attack Munich. You might want to act
>accordingly.
Figured that. Covering other areas.
-Pitt
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I can just about ensure that Austria puts Vienna in motion, I think. I
> could send him a message saying Russia insists on hitting Vienna, even
> though I tried to call him off. Let me know if that would help.
I think it would, thanx :)
Cal
The shadow of the master once again falls over the Dark Tower in Vienna.
Purged from its moat is the foul dropping of the Roman pagan dogs. Liberation
in Trieste was also hard won but again the vile legions of green slime have
been vanquished.
While at the height of these military victories which once again demonstrated
(if not in a somewhat vulgar manner) the Golden Age ESP feared by those who
should have known better, BirSauron can not help to be sadden at the
degeneration of the Turkish hordes to greed, avarice and rampant disorder.
"What a shame it is that what could have been has come to settle for such a
display as what we have witnessed. Is there no sanity in this world that has
not been sucked into a vat of self focused engrossment and envy for the
economy of those about them?"
As he looked into the setting sun, the Lord of Darkness sent an age old
whisper to be carried on the winds to the west and north:
'Come, Come, Come to the Darkside."
> Russia: Army Bohemia SUPPORT French Army Burgundy -> Munich.
Mark, that's just lame. At least _try_ for a center.
Hohn "Anti-Suicide" Cho
Send 'em all to Ruhr!
Adjustments
Private message from France to Italy:
What were you thinking?
>The German Army in Belgium can retreat to Ruhr.
>The German Army in Holland can retreat to Ruhr.
>The German Army in Munich can retreat to Ruhr or Berlin or Silesia.
Ruhr - crossroads of Europe...
>I wonder about Mark's move too
If a suiciding Russia has you puzzled, take a look at England's order.
True, he's still alive but how long will he be now that he has given France
*all* the newly acquired German SC's? Unless I missed something, France is
going to +3 this year.
It would appear that both Russia and England had a score to settle with
Germany...
I simply can't understand why.
All my former friends would tell you what a nice guy I was (if they could
still talk, that is...)
KaiserPitt
Private message from Italy to Germany:
Told you we'd have more to talk about after last turn, eh? grin
I had hoped things would be a lot more settled now, but unfortunately,
there's a wild card around. I had thought Edi would be pretty much
wiped out and it would be a simple case of beating France down while
keeping an eye on Hohn. With Edi around, I can't mount as effective an
attack on France. For one, I'll have to remove a unit this turn and
I'll also have to watch my back for a while. sigh
I have to leave til tomorrow night so I can't go over everything now.
I'll get back to you when I return to Toronto. Basically, our problem
lies in knocking down the leader (France), while not letting Hohn get so
close to 18 he can make a one-season run for it. We have to be the
balance of power and it's a really sharp edge we're dancing on now.
Talk to you later.
Cal
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Yuck. I really didn't want to see Edi stay at three centres. France
being at 11 is bad enough, but Edi having control of his own centres,
well... (you're a lawyer, can't we declare him incompetant and get power
of attorney re: his units? grin)(Hmm, if that would have worked, we
should have tried it on Mark a long time ago!)
Ah well, I guess we have a lot to talk about with Pitt right now, don't
we? I'm going to be away til tomorrow night so I won't be answering
letters. I'll take a close look at tactics then. Right now, it seems
as if it would still be best to wipe out Austria. I admit working WITH
Edi makes some sense, but I doubt if he would be trustful enough to
coordinate things properly and it would also block you into the corner
and render your units ineffectual. I'm assuming Edi removes the fleet.
I definitely request you don't BUILD any.
More after I get back.
Cal
I wonder about Mark's move too, but I suspect it was a result of his
upcoming vacation, no?
Private message from Italy to Russia:
Sorry to see you go, Mark. While I don't think you're too happy with
the result, I've enjoyed your letters and hope we meet again in a game
somewhere.
I would like to ask one question though. Since your final moves didn't
even try for a centre and allowed Edi to survive quite intact, I'm
wondering when you switched Pitt with Edi in the role of anti-Christ
this game? I figured you would have wanted to be in on the elimination
of Austria. Admittedly, given Hohn's moves (which were predicated on
the fact that you guys weren't going to hit Vie), it wouldn't have
happened, but I still don't understand supporting John against Pitt.
Even if John insisted, why didn't you insist on staying around for a
while. Oh wait, brainwave, was it your upcoming vacation?
Anyway, good luck and hope to cross paths or swords again.
Cal
Private message from England to Germany:
I told him not to let you into Nth. Of course, this was partly for my own
survival, but also for France's sake. But he chose the wilder alternative!
Should be interesting, anyway.
Cheers,
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to France:
Napoleon,
First things first:
I assume you will build a fleet and an army. I assume Germany will disband
the F Bot. I don't know what Italy will do; I will assume the worst, that
he disbands the F Adr, since otherwise it would surely be the F Wes,
changing his mind.
(Along these lines, I have heard nothing from you since the move, but I
certainly hope you are negotiating feverishly with Italy. I *think* I made
clear to you my feeling that Italy was on the fence; maybe you didn't
bother talking to him last season? If Turkey should build even one fleet,
you could definitely use that to your bargaining advantage with Italy.
I am happy to try to approach Italy for you -- I did tell him last year
that I believed that of the two of you and Hohn, you would be the safer
ally for him; apparently to no good end, though.)
Then consider what I mentioned before last move: Germany might convoy an
army to Edi from Denmark. Also Kie-Den, Ber S Ruh-Kie. The armies are in
retreat, but they will snag your two English centers and your hopes of
regaining them soon are small. For this reason, I suggest Hel-Den.
If you don't like that, I suggest as an alternative Hel-Kie, while you try
to take Ruhr from Belgium (with Mun supporting). This should be a fairly
safe move, and if Germany merely tries to sit tight in Nth and take Edi in
the Fall with the fleet, you'd have pretty strong counterplay against Kiel.
(I bet Germany will *not* try for London.)
I don't think Italy can do any damage this year. I wonder how aggressive
he'll be, in light of the Turkish navy over his shoulder. We'll see, I
guess.
I am a bit worried that you will make a peace with Germany again, so as to
concentrate on Italy. I think this would be a great error, myself. I know
it would spell a rapid end for me, but I mean a great error for *you*.
If you prefer to wait to see the adjustments before embarking on any
analysis, I'll be patient.
Cheers,
Gentle King Jamie
>If a suiciding Russia has you puzzled, take a look at England's order.
>True, he's still alive but how long will he be now that he has given France
>*all* the newly acquired German SC's? Unless I missed something, France is
>going to +3 this year.
Nope, you didn't miss anything! Well, , you didn't miss anything
*after* the moves, anyway.
>It would appear that both Russia and England had a score to settle with
>Germany...
Speaking only for our royal self, we can just say that we know on which
side our bread is buttered.
And note in passing that the Gut Kaiser had every opportunity to have the
mighty British navy on HIS side instead, but oddly chose to aggrandize the
French last year (by asking our northern fleet to move to Norway, though
the Kaiser knew it would be useless, instead of telling it to guard
Edinburgh against the French). Now it's time to pay debts: the Counselor of
the Exchequer has his pen hand at the ready, and the Kaiser had better have
some draughts prepared, too.
>I simply can't understand why.
:)
>All my former friends would tell you what a nice guy I was (if they could
>still talk, that is...)
So we asked ourself, "Former friend of the Kaiser, is he really a nice
guy?" But we couldn't think of anything to say.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to France:
>Can we dislodge nth? That would prevent the convoy.
We can't do it for sure, and it would be kind of a drag to force him to
retreat into London.
I'll look more carefully into that option tomorrow.
GKJ
Private message from England to Germany:
A. Cal, for ghods' sake, don't include the entirety of Mark's notes in your
broadcasts! The internet will collapse.
B. Mark,
>1) How do you unplug yourself from a game once it's over? In other
>words, how do I stop getting mail and game info?
You resign, of course. You just signon, and type the one word 'resign'.
(But are you sure you want to unplug? Won't you miss the drip, drip, drip of
the drug through your intravenous tube? Can you really go cold turkey? Oops,
maybe not the best choice of idioms....)
>2) I also signed on as an observer in another game; how do I do likewise
>and "unobserve?"
Same way. Signon as an observer, and then add 'resign'.
C. I rather enjoyed reading all the tirades and stuff, I was just giving
Mark a hard time about the long-windedness. Pot calling kettle black, kinda
thing.
-Jamie
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Look at it from my point of view. If I piss off France any more than
> I have, he and Edi have the potential to take me down to three or two
> centres. It would certainly fit Edi's game-throwing threats. At 2 or
> 3 centres, I think I'd be taking a chance on your/France's goodwill.
> I prefer to be large enough to be INdespensible as opposed to the
> opposite.
I suspect John will be working with Edi against you almost regardless.
But I think we can manage, me you and Pitt.
> > John's the big threat, now. He's the one who can romp through the
> > north and center and grab for TUN for 18. My units are way out of
> > position, and Edi is very alive and kicking. I think it's crucial
> > that we maintain a forward defense against John, so that a stalemate
> > line can be achieved.
>
> Frankly, as far as the BIG picture goes, I agree completely.
> Unfortunately, with Edi on one side and John on the other and both
> hostile, I may not have the luxury of looking at other than the local
> picture.
If you keep ADR and VEN (obviously) and NAP and WES, that's as good as
or better than keeping ADR and VEN, and NAP and TUN.
That army is just sort of hanging out there, and is of limited use.
Getting it back to the continent is inefficient, in that it ties up
two units. Moreover, a fleet in TUN for the endgame is much more
crucial, as it can support TYS, whereas an army cannot.
> > haven't given him the satisfaction of telling him that I think that's
> > the case.) ;)
>
> Grin.
>
> > I urge you to disband A TUN. Let me know if there is anything I can
> > do or any reassurances I can give to help you make your decision.
>
> I will definitely consider it as I REALLY want to find reasons to
> continue westward. What I need is to know (as far as is possible)
> is that I can survive at a decent size until Edi is no longer a factor.
> Let me look it over tactically and I'll get back to you. As I said, I
> AM very predisposed to working WITH you.
> And again, your thoughts?
My thoughts are that we can take Edi and John, especially with Pitt's
help. My armies will be moving to bring Edi down, and I don't think
he'll be able to withstand. ADR and VEN can defend pretty admirably
for a small while, and I believe keeping F WES is important to keep
the pressure on France.
Look at it this way. If you disband F WES, France will have no
incentive to hold A MAR back. It will go straight into PIE. At least
this way, you can make him think, and hopefully he'll move to SPA to
cover. If he moves to PIE, you're going to have difficulties keeping
VEN. Everything we can do to forestall the move to PIE is important,
IMO. Otherwise, we have a guessing game and it becomes a big pain.
I want to keep you viable because I can't do it alone. And I
_certainly_ want to take Edi down. Couple that to my desire to stop
John from winning, and I think keeping F WES alive and disbanding that
army in TUN is key. Again, we can push France back and build a solid
wall of fleets to greet him (and even push him back, perhaps) once he
gets done with Pitt. We will have a much harder time doing that with
an army in TUN.
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> Sure. Why not remove that army sitting out in the middle of nowhere
> in TUN? We can make sure that wherever John retreats TYS, we will
> boot him out in the fall.
Look at it from my point of view. If I piss off France any more than
I have, he and Edi have the potential to take me down to three or two
centres. It would certainly fit Edi's game-throwing threats. At 2 or
3 centres, I think I'd be taking a chance on your/France's goodwill.
I prefer to be large enough to be INdespensible as opposed to the
opposite.
> John's the big threat, now. He's the one who can romp through the
> north and center and grab for TUN for 18. My units are way out of
> position, and Edi is very alive and kicking. I think it's crucial
> that we maintain a forward defense against John, so that a stalemate
> line can be achieved.
Frankly, as far as the BIG picture goes, I agree completely.
Unfortunately, with Edi on one side and John on the other and both
hostile, I may not have the luxury of looking at other than the local
picture.
> I'm in this with you all the way now, Cal. Edi is leaving me no
> choice. He's leaving none of us any choice. His throw-game threat,
> while I still don't think it's that large, is still possible. (I just
> haven't given him the satisfaction of telling him that I think that's
> the case.) ;)
Grin.
> I urge you to disband A TUN. Let me know if there is anything I can
> do or any reassurances I can give to help you make your decision.
I will definitely consider it as I REALLY want to find reasons to
continue westward. What I need is to know (as far as is possible)
is that I can survive at a decent size until Edi is no longer a factor.
Let me look it over tactically and I'll get back to you. As I said, I
AM very predisposed to working WITH you.
And again, your thoughts?
Cal
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Sorry guys, I TRIED to finish reading this stuff, but it's so bloody
boring I lost interest AND I'M IN THE GAME!
Can we take this to a one-on-one convo?
Cal
PS: Oh, for what it's worth, Mark, that WAS a pretty lame final move,
WHATEVER your reasons were... grin.
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Austria, England, Germany, Turkey,
> Italy and France in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Guys,
> **It seems Hohn has an opinion about my broadcast message...while part of
> my earlier distaribe was a joke (you know, like his convoy of me to
> Switzerland -- ha ha, I get it now!!), I want to say my piece...again.
> (Jamie, this is your cue for the "long-winded broadcast message" thing
> again...) As always, I'm at the ** parts.
>
> ** BEFORE YOU READ THIS:
> 1) How do you unplug yourself from a game once it's over? In other
> words, how do I stop getting mail and game info?
> 2) I also signed on as an observer in another game; how do I do likewise
> and "unobserve?"
>
> OK, read on!
>
> [Note press delivery destinations. If people want to open this topic
> up to a larger forum, then that's fine with me, although if that's the
> case, I suggest r.g.d. Otherwise, I say let folks read about it
> after the game's over so we don't get bogged down here.]
>
> ** I also see no need to open this to a higher forum, as it doesn't seem
> to be worth anything in the Big Scheme of Life.
>
> Mark,
>
> > "Soooo....this is what it comes to, eh? Russia fights loyally with
> its
> > allies, and we are accused of suiciding? Suicide? If it be suicide,
> > then it was Kevorkian-like Physician-assisted suicide from the combined
> > Medical Houses of Europe.
>
> Qualify it as you choose. It's still suicide.
>
> ** Ok, if you say so. Tomato, tomatoe, whatever....
>
> > Russia would have preferred to strike for
> > Vienna, but that move depended on a couple other actors contributing.
> As
> > he has done *every* turn since 1902, Turkey prefers to be in the
> dominant
> > position, dictating terms, vice cooperating.
>
> My orders were all set for an attack on Budapest, until John indicated
> that you and he were unilaterally pulling out of the attack.
>
> ** I believe you.
>
> > (Oh, but thanks for
> > convoying me to Switzerland, Hohn; much appreciated, and tactically
> > brilliant, if I don't say so myself.)
>
> Psst! Hey Mark!
> It was a _joke_. The other option would have been to hold. Bo-ring.
>
> ** Oh, *NOW* it's obvious! Gosh, I wish I'd played the game longer and
> realized it when I first saw it. Wait, let me turn on the sound track
> here. HA, ha ha ha...ha.
>
> > Turkey accusing Russia of
> > suiciding is as lame (or even moreso) than the initial accusation of
> > Russian lameness. The only "lameness" in Russia are my legs and
> > backside, from being stabbed and kicked around all game, like some
> > sandlot football or whipped cur. I'm "limping lamely" out of my
> > gravesite, is all. And in no small measure due to Turkish blows.
> > Harumph.
>
> Excuse me while I burn your straw man in the town square, Mark, but
> I've never once contested that I've been an architect of your
> downfall. That still doesn't change the fact that you committed
> suicide this past turn.
>
> ** Let's just say when you've had all but the last ounce of air punched
> out of your stomach by 'repeated' body blows from guys you've tried to
> deal with, it affects you. That's not a whine job, only a mere
> observation. IMO, I consider "suiciding out" in Dip to be when you throw
> a multi-center country completely in one direction, or just give up the
> ghost willy-nilly, for no ulterior purpose. This one-center "fade-out"
> had a different complexion to it, IMO. I know you disagree, me hearty.
> Variety's the spice of life....
>
> > In fact, here's "lame." Russia writes letters out the kiester --
> true,
> > as of late only to the West -- and gets drilled repeatedly this game.
> > Yet others, with their 20-hour workdays, their weird workshifts, or
> their
> > game attitudes, can't be "bothered" with communicating or with seeing a
> > different board approach. *That* is lame. What of other's "efforts,"
> > (ha!) -- those who figured Russia wasn't worth communicating to on a
> > 'real' mutual basis, and thus wrote only self-serving pap -- can we
> not
> > call that "lame" as well? As for the newly-stabbed victims, well...the
> > proof is in the pudding there, too. People who live in glass
> houses....
>
> Actually, I've been doing plenty of negotiation lately, Mark. Just
> not with you. You quickly established yourself to be unreliable in my
> opinion (which is the only opinion that matters, with respect to my
> own moves), and then later on you became mostly irrelevant to me.
>
> ** Would that "irrelevant" part be after your first, or second, stab of
> me?
> C'mon, I realize you've been dealing with others besides me. The
> Germano-Turk slice up north was nice, and you've obviously been dealing
> with Italy for awhile; Lord knows you screwed him a couple more times
> than me as of late, and then there was his "conversion" to head west
> again, inspired by your silver tongue. I never doubted you were
> conversing with someone. i guess I kind of got bummed out that after
> 1901, you *seemingly* excluded me completely in your computations and
> decided that a multiple retaliation/having the last word "your way" was
> the path you were going to take. But hey, that's why you're at 10 and
> I'm dead.
>
> I rejected your offers because for one I wasn't sure of their
> sincerity,
>
> ** Well, there's a novel reason. I should've probably done the same
> after 1902....
>
> and for two because I felt it was in my better interest to continue
> working with Edi at those points.
>
> ** Logical and understood. It made you the power you are today; why
> trifle with success?
>
> But I was never remiss in my negotiations when they mattered. For
> example, on the first turn or two with you. Then again on the turn I
> stabbed you.
>
> ** And then on the next stab, and the follow-ups...let's not forget your
> up-frontness there, too.
>
> > If you call Russia's sacrifice "suicide," then the Alamo was suicide;
> > falling on a grenade to save your buddy is suicide; and (gasp!)
> Obi-Whan
> > Kenobi's fight with Darth Vader!!) can be considered "suicide."
> Would
> > any real person make such comparisons. Russia begs to differ on
> > terminology.
>
> You exited the game without even trying to survive. That's as good as
> suicide in my book.
>
> ** Well, you're reading from the Cliff notes. I played the odds to make
> what I thought was the best move for the alliance I was with. Had I
> tried and not succeeded, I'd still be dead, and Germany would be even
> instaed of -1. Hindsight is always 20-20. I guess I figured as I was
> increasingly "irrelevant" in your (and others') computations, then I
> should go with the sure-odds takedown of MUN, rather than risk a 1-center
> life. We disagree on this, but quite honestly, it's no BFD....
>
> I'm honestly disappointed, Mark. I firmly believe that good players
> should always act in their own best interests. Survival is key to
> that, of course. To subordinate your own interests to John to the
> point where you will accept death rather than try to continue is not
> Good Play, not in my opinion. Please take that opinion for whatever
> worth you choose; I won't mind.
>
> ** I understand fully. Most times I'd agree with you. But why be
> disappointed? I tried to deal with others throughout the game. Despite
> Edi's description of it as "slash and burn," those 'slashes" were always
> designed with a partner in mind: 'slash' Turkey with Austria in 1901;
> 'slash' Austria after proving my intentions to you in 1902; "Slash" A/T
> with a German ally and be his puppet. Nothing worked. Does that mean I
> shouldn't have gone down to the wire and fought-on, Nazi-like in my 1945
> Gotterdammerung? Pah. One center dies so another can live. It doesn't
> disappoint me as much as it does you, apparently. Again, that's your
> view, and I respect it.
>
> The only valid exception that comes to mind is throw-game leverage,
> and since that is a situation where you would be dead anyway, or when
> another person solos thus resulting in a loss, there's no real
> downside. Maintaining credibility and honor in a situation like that
> is as good a reason as any.
>
> But that's not the case here. It's too early for throw-game leverage,
> and your one unit wasn't occupying that crucial role with respect to
> throw-game leverage in any event.
>
> ** How about, "I got tired of being pummeled?" "I saw no growth
> potential after seizing Vienna?" or something equally inane? Again,
> our views of alliance, loyalty, and game objectives differ here. That's
> ok.
>
> I've been down to one, and I eventually made it up to a decent number
> of units and a place in a draw. I've been down to two, and I've made
> it back to win the game. So long as there is life, there is hope.
>
> ** You're seemingly one of the rabid victory guys I dragged out the tired
> argument about (below); I'm not--at least not for this game. Look,
> Hohn, when you were all of 12, I was phoning in orders from central Saudi
> Arabia at 2 a.m., using half of my weekly five-minute overseas morale
> call allocation to send orders, vice talking to my wife. Please don't
> consider me a Dip wimp when you've only observed this game. I've won a
> lot of games, and I've lost a lot of games...and I've survived in a lot
> of games. The fun comes from playing, as well as from the interaction
> and the *hope* of gain. Quite honestly, the interaction wasn't as
> great as I'd have hoped for after 1902, and your superior play (as well
> as G and A) helped ensure my gains would be near-zero. In this game, I
> just didn't feel like being the perpetual water boy, sitting on the bench
> watching you guys make the great plays, just so I could wear my trophy
> ring and say "I was part of the team." That's seemingly where we
> differ. Again, no biggie.
>
> ** With Dip, I can be -- and have been -- as rabid and as dedicated as
> the next player when it comes to loving and playing this game. I have
> never NMR'd in 21 years of play, and I've called in orders from equally
> distant and bizarre places. You don't need to sermonize me on the need
> to fight to the death in a game. I just didn't do it this turn/game.
> It wasn't fun anymore. And I doubt any of you feel "cheated' that poor
> ol' Russia -- with his acerbic cynicism and with his 'goofy' play style
> -- has died.
>
> > Austria stays at three, and, knowing the "birds of a feather"
> mentality,
> > Russia expects to see at least an attempted rappraochement between A
> and
> > T...although these two buzzards will now be one very large bird, and
> one
> > smaller, squawking one....with the runt always looking to check his
> > tailfeathers. To see these foes come to blows before my death was one
> > small wish come true.
>
> Hate to tell you, but aside from your relatively quick collapse, your
> actions had no impact on my decision to stab Edi. It was sheerly a
> decision based on perceived self-interest. No offense.
>
> ** None taken. Your steely-eyed logic once again showed itself. I
> expected nothing less, and nothing more!, from you. And don't call me
> sheerly. :>)
>
> > Reality check: yes, I'm going on vacation next week. And yes, I'll
> then
> > be in the field for all summer, returning in mid-August to get ready to
> > teach. But it wasn't for either of those reasons that I chose to
> support
> > France.
>
> I think that's too bad, because those are actually reasons I could
> understand more readily. Or at least a reason to turn the position
> over to someone.
>
> ** I don't like to give someone else my "sloppy seconds" via abandoned
> positions. And to say I'm "suiciding" because I want to go on vacation
> would be a laughable excuse, if you really knew me. Those reasons are to
> me what my last turn action probably is to you, Hohn.
>
> > Quite honestly, I could've stuck around on someone else's
> > perpetual "life support" system as a 1-center pawn (an influential one,
> > yes, but one still destined to never regain my homeland and thus
> build).
> > And I wanted to do that with Hohn, and Pitt, and anyone else willing to
> > deal. I've had my share of vacuous words. Maybe when you're at 10, or
> > 6, or even at 3, you can legitimately question the move.
>
> I can most certainly question the move. Every one of us has been in a
> similar situation before, Mark.
>
> ** See my 'sermonizing' reference, above.
>
> > But I saw the
> > chance to better aid an ally this way -- with me in MUN, I become an
> > obstacle to French expansion.
>
> If you're playing toady to some other power to the extent that you
> choose death over an attempt at life, you're not playing to win (or
> participate in a draw). And playing to win is what this game's about,
> IMO.
>
> ** Yup; that's what the rules say.
>
> Show me an "expert" player (whatever that is) and I'll show you
> a cutthroat, drive-for-18-or-settle-reluctantly-for-a-draw player.
>
> ** That would be you. And the real "ghods of this game."
> But you know what? Some guys -- even ghods -- are gonna die in this
> game. I'm willing to share a spot on my death bier with them.
>
> > And I honestly figured Edi and Pitt would
> > order in such a way as to ensure I would've died (once again, fooled
> even
> > in their antipathy).
>
> > This *is*, last time I checked, only a game, for those more rabid for
> > victory than me....
>
> I'm surprised you're trotting this tired argument out, Mark.
> Of course it's just a game. Why do you think it took a back seat to
> my job? Funny, you were just criticizing me for that, weren't you?
>
> ** Well, in part. I was also criticizing you for your
> non-correspondence to me, but that's understandable in light of all your
> other comments and game plans.
>
> But if you're going to take on the endeavor of playing in such a game,
>
> ** "Such a game?"
>
> especially one with other "experts,"
>
> **ah, I see...
>
> you _should_ be taking it
> seriously. Seriously enough to try to fulfill the objectives of the
> game, namely recording a win or a draw, IMO.
>
> ** Your opinion is duly noted. Again, I realize these are typical Hohn
> Cho "speak from the heart, no offense intended" comments. And I take no
> offense, nor do I expect you to take any from all of this spiel. After
> some very real trepidation on my part early in the game about being a
> "lesser mortal among the ghods," I suddenIy realized I needed to treat
> you guys like I treat anyone else in the hobby. You're "ghods" because
> Jim chose to ask you to play in this game. There are hundred other Hohn
> Chos out there, as well as a score of Edis and Pitts, and whomever else.
> So when I played this game, I played the position, just like I did in
> every other game. I tried to play as hard and as dedicated here as in
> other matches not because of the "expert" clientele, but because it's
> another game. I lost. C'est la fini.
>
> Those are my honest and sincere opinions on a subject that, in the
> context of Diplomacy, I feel strongly about. And as blunt and
> strongly worded as those opinions may be, and even considering the
> obviously opposing viewpoints we're taking here, I intend no offense.
>
> ** Again, Hohn, none taken. As much as we disgareed and had some spicy
> retorts back and forth, I never questioned your openness and intensity.
> You should be proud of that.
>
> There's also no ulterior motive here, since you are after all now gone
> from the game. I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em.
>
> ** I personally think the ump needs a new set of glasses. But it's easy
> to say, now that I'm in the stands and you guys are still on the playing
> field. -grin-
>
> And again, you and anyone else should take my opinions for exactly
> what they are: merely my opinions. Assign whatever worth you choose
> to them.
>
> ** I value them. But they are also irrelevant, given that they are ex
> post facto and probably no one in the Observer corps or outside of this
> game give a rat's ass.
> But thanks for opining.
>
> The Celestial Tsar Faz
Private message from Turkey to Master:
Well Mark, you have done what few people have managed to do in the
past. You've outwinded me. ;) I don't have the time or energy to
respond point by point to your last message.
Suffice it to say that while I understand your position, I still
disagree with it quite strongly. In Diplomacy, people should play to
win, or for a draw. But anyway, perhaps it's just best to agree to
disagree here.
Regardless, I did enjoy playing with you, Mark (even if we never were
able to reach quite the same wavelength at quite the same time), and I
wish you the best in your endeavors.
Hohn "Young Whippersnapper" Cho
Private message from Russia to France:
Guys,
**It seems Hohn has an opinion about my broadcast message...while part of
my earlier distaribe was a joke (you know, like his convoy of me to
Switzerland -- ha ha, I get it now!!), I want to say my piece...again.
(Jamie, this is your cue for the "long-winded broadcast message" thing
again...) As always, I'm at the ** parts.
** BEFORE YOU READ THIS:
1) How do you unplug yourself from a game once it's over? In other
words, how do I stop getting mail and game info?
2) I also signed on as an observer in another game; how do I do likewise
and "unobserve?"
OK, read on!
[Note press delivery destinations. If people want to open this topic
up to a larger forum, then that's fine with me, although if that's the
case, I suggest r.g.d. Otherwise, I say let folks read about it
after the game's over so we don't get bogged down here.]
** I also see no need to open this to a higher forum, as it doesn't seem
to be worth anything in the Big Scheme of Life.
Mark,
> "Soooo....this is what it comes to, eh? Russia fights loyally with
its
> allies, and we are accused of suiciding? Suicide? If it be suicide,
> then it was Kevorkian-like Physician-assisted suicide from the combined
> Medical Houses of Europe.
Qualify it as you choose. It's still suicide.
** Ok, if you say so. Tomato, tomatoe, whatever....
> Russia would have preferred to strike for
> Vienna, but that move depended on a couple other actors contributing.
As
> he has done *every* turn since 1902, Turkey prefers to be in the
dominant
> position, dictating terms, vice cooperating.
My orders were all set for an attack on Budapest, until John indicated
that you and he were unilaterally pulling out of the attack.
** I believe you.
> (Oh, but thanks for
> convoying me to Switzerland, Hohn; much appreciated, and tactically
> brilliant, if I don't say so myself.)
Psst! Hey Mark!
It was a _joke_. The other option would have been to hold. Bo-ring.
** Oh, *NOW* it's obvious! Gosh, I wish I'd played the game longer and
realized it when I first saw it. Wait, let me turn on the sound track
here. HA, ha ha ha...ha.
> Turkey accusing Russia of
> suiciding is as lame (or even moreso) than the initial accusation of
> Russian lameness. The only "lameness" in Russia are my legs and
> backside, from being stabbed and kicked around all game, like some
> sandlot football or whipped cur. I'm "limping lamely" out of my
> gravesite, is all. And in no small measure due to Turkish blows.
> Harumph.
Excuse me while I burn your straw man in the town square, Mark, but
I've never once contested that I've been an architect of your
downfall. That still doesn't change the fact that you committed
suicide this past turn.
** Let's just say when you've had all but the last ounce of air punched
out of your stomach by 'repeated' body blows from guys you've tried to
deal with, it affects you. That's not a whine job, only a mere
observation. IMO, I consider "suiciding out" in Dip to be when you throw
a multi-center country completely in one direction, or just give up the
ghost willy-nilly, for no ulterior purpose. This one-center "fade-out"
had a different complexion to it, IMO. I know you disagree, me hearty.
Variety's the spice of life....
> In fact, here's "lame." Russia writes letters out the kiester --
true,
> as of late only to the West -- and gets drilled repeatedly this game.
> Yet others, with their 20-hour workdays, their weird workshifts, or
their
> game attitudes, can't be "bothered" with communicating or with seeing a
> different board approach. *That* is lame. What of other's "efforts,"
> (ha!) -- those who figured Russia wasn't worth communicating to on a
> 'real' mutual basis, and thus wrote only self-serving pap -- can we
not
> call that "lame" as well? As for the newly-stabbed victims, well...the
> proof is in the pudding there, too. People who live in glass
houses....
Actually, I've been doing plenty of negotiation lately, Mark. Just
not with you. You quickly established yourself to be unreliable in my
opinion (which is the only opinion that matters, with respect to my
own moves), and then later on you became mostly irrelevant to me.
** Would that "irrelevant" part be after your first, or second, stab of
me?
C'mon, I realize you've been dealing with others besides me. The
Germano-Turk slice up north was nice, and you've obviously been dealing
with Italy for awhile; Lord knows you screwed him a couple more times
than me as of late, and then there was his "conversion" to head west
again, inspired by your silver tongue. I never doubted you were
conversing with someone. i guess I kind of got bummed out that after
1901, you *seemingly* excluded me completely in your computations and
decided that a multiple retaliation/having the last word "your way" was
the path you were going to take. But hey, that's why you're at 10 and
I'm dead.
I rejected your offers because for one I wasn't sure of their
sincerity,
** Well, there's a novel reason. I should've probably done the same
after 1902....
and for two because I felt it was in my better interest to continue
working with Edi at those points.
** Logical and understood. It made you the power you are today; why
trifle with success?
But I was never remiss in my negotiations when they mattered. For
example, on the first turn or two with you. Then again on the turn I
stabbed you.
** And then on the next stab, and the follow-ups...let's not forget your
up-frontness there, too.
> If you call Russia's sacrifice "suicide," then the Alamo was suicide;
> falling on a grenade to save your buddy is suicide; and (gasp!)
Obi-Whan
> Kenobi's fight with Darth Vader!!) can be considered "suicide."
Would
> any real person make such comparisons. Russia begs to differ on
> terminology.
You exited the game without even trying to survive. That's as good as
suicide in my book.
** Well, you're reading from the Cliff notes. I played the odds to make
what I thought was the best move for the alliance I was with. Had I
tried and not succeeded, I'd still be dead, and Germany would be even
instaed of -1. Hindsight is always 20-20. I guess I figured as I was
increasingly "irrelevant" in your (and others') computations, then I
should go with the sure-odds takedown of MUN, rather than risk a 1-center
life. We disagree on this, but quite honestly, it's no BFD....
I'm honestly disappointed, Mark. I firmly believe that good players
should always act in their own best interests. Survival is key to
that, of course. To subordinate your own interests to John to the
point where you will accept death rather than try to continue is not
Good Play, not in my opinion. Please take that opinion for whatever
worth you choose; I won't mind.
** I understand fully. Most times I'd agree with you. But why be
disappointed? I tried to deal with others throughout the game. Despite
Edi's description of it as "slash and burn," those 'slashes" were always
designed with a partner in mind: 'slash' Turkey with Austria in 1901;
'slash' Austria after proving my intentions to you in 1902; "Slash" A/T
with a German ally and be his puppet. Nothing worked. Does that mean I
shouldn't have gone down to the wire and fought-on, Nazi-like in my 1945
Gotterdammerung? Pah. One center dies so another can live. It doesn't
disappoint me as much as it does you, apparently. Again, that's your
view, and I respect it.
The only valid exception that comes to mind is throw-game leverage,
and since that is a situation where you would be dead anyway, or when
another person solos thus resulting in a loss, there's no real
downside. Maintaining credibility and honor in a situation like that
is as good a reason as any.
But that's not the case here. It's too early for throw-game leverage,
and your one unit wasn't occupying that crucial role with respect to
throw-game leverage in any event.
** How about, "I got tired of being pummeled?" "I saw no growth
potential after seizing Vienna?" or something equally inane? Again,
our views of alliance, loyalty, and game objectives differ here. That's
ok.
I've been down to one, and I eventually made it up to a decent number
of units and a place in a draw. I've been down to two, and I've made
it back to win the game. So long as there is life, there is hope.
** You're seemingly one of the rabid victory guys I dragged out the tired
argument about (below); I'm not--at least not for this game. Look,
Hohn, when you were all of 12, I was phoning in orders from central Saudi
Arabia at 2 a.m., using half of my weekly five-minute overseas morale
call allocation to send orders, vice talking to my wife. Please don't
consider me a Dip wimp when you've only observed this game. I've won a
lot of games, and I've lost a lot of games...and I've survived in a lot
of games. The fun comes from playing, as well as from the interaction
and the *hope* of gain. Quite honestly, the interaction wasn't as
great as I'd have hoped for after 1902, and your superior play (as well
as G and A) helped ensure my gains would be near-zero. In this game, I
just didn't feel like being the perpetual water boy, sitting on the bench
watching you guys make the great plays, just so I could wear my trophy
ring and say "I was part of the team." That's seemingly where we
differ. Again, no biggie.
** With Dip, I can be -- and have been -- as rabid and as dedicated as
the next player when it comes to loving and playing this game. I have
never NMR'd in 21 years of play, and I've called in orders from equally
distant and bizarre places. You don't need to sermonize me on the need
to fight to the death in a game. I just didn't do it this turn/game.
It wasn't fun anymore. And I doubt any of you feel "cheated' that poor
ol' Russia -- with his acerbic cynicism and with his 'goofy' play style
-- has died.
> Austria stays at three, and, knowing the "birds of a feather"
mentality,
> Russia expects to see at least an attempted rappraochement between A
and
> T...although these two buzzards will now be one very large bird, and
one
> smaller, squawking one....with the runt always looking to check his
> tailfeathers. To see these foes come to blows before my death was one
> small wish come true.
Hate to tell you, but aside from your relatively quick collapse, your
actions had no impact on my decision to stab Edi. It was sheerly a
decision based on perceived self-interest. No offense.
** None taken. Your steely-eyed logic once again showed itself. I
expected nothing less, and nothing more!, from you. And don't call me
sheerly. :>)
> Reality check: yes, I'm going on vacation next week. And yes, I'll
then
> be in the field for all summer, returning in mid-August to get ready to
> teach. But it wasn't for either of those reasons that I chose to
support
> France.
I think that's too bad, because those are actually reasons I could
understand more readily. Or at least a reason to turn the position
over to someone.
** I don't like to give someone else my "sloppy seconds" via abandoned
positions. And to say I'm "suiciding" because I want to go on vacation
would be a laughable excuse, if you really knew me. Those reasons are to
me what my last turn action probably is to you, Hohn.
> Quite honestly, I could've stuck around on someone else's
> perpetual "life support" system as a 1-center pawn (an influential one,
> yes, but one still destined to never regain my homeland and thus
build).
> And I wanted to do that with Hohn, and Pitt, and anyone else willing to
> deal. I've had my share of vacuous words. Maybe when you're at 10, or
> 6, or even at 3, you can legitimately question the move.
I can most certainly question the move. Every one of us has been in a
similar situation before, Mark.
** See my 'sermonizing' reference, above.
> But I saw the
> chance to better aid an ally this way -- with me in MUN, I become an
> obstacle to French expansion.
If you're playing toady to some other power to the extent that you
choose death over an attempt at life, you're not playing to win (or
participate in a draw). And playing to win is what this game's about,
IMO.
** Yup; that's what the rules say.
Show me an "expert" player (whatever that is) and I'll show you
a cutthroat, drive-for-18-or-settle-reluctantly-for-a-draw player.
** That would be you. And the real "ghods of this game."
But you know what? Some guys -- even ghods -- are gonna die in this
game. I'm willing to share a spot on my death bier with them.
> And I honestly figured Edi and Pitt would
> order in such a way as to ensure I would've died (once again, fooled
even
> in their antipathy).
> This *is*, last time I checked, only a game, for those more rabid for
> victory than me....
I'm surprised you're trotting this tired argument out, Mark.
Of course it's just a game. Why do you think it took a back seat to
my job? Funny, you were just criticizing me for that, weren't you?
** Well, in part. I was also criticizing you for your
non-correspondence to me, but that's understandable in light of all your
other comments and game plans.
But if you're going to take on the endeavor of playing in such a game,
** "Such a game?"
especially one with other "experts,"
**ah, I see...
you _should_ be taking it
seriously. Seriously enough to try to fulfill the objectives of the
game, namely recording a win or a draw, IMO.
** Your opinion is duly noted. Again, I realize these are typical Hohn
Cho "speak from the heart, no offense intended" comments. And I take no
offense, nor do I expect you to take any from all of this spiel. After
some very real trepidation on my part early in the game about being a
"lesser mortal among the ghods," I suddenIy realized I needed to treat
you guys like I treat anyone else in the hobby. You're "ghods" because
Jim chose to ask you to play in this game. There are hundred other Hohn
Chos out there, as well as a score of Edis and Pitts, and whomever else.
So when I played this game, I played the position, just like I did in
every other game. I tried to play as hard and as dedicated here as in
other matches not because of the "expert" clientele, but because it's
another game. I lost. C'est la fini.
Those are my honest and sincere opinions on a subject that, in the
context of Diplomacy, I feel strongly about. And as blunt and
strongly worded as those opinions may be, and even considering the
obviously opposing viewpoints we're taking here, I intend no offense.
** Again, Hohn, none taken. As much as we disgareed and had some spicy
retorts back and forth, I never questioned your openness and intensity.
You should be proud of that.
There's also no ulterior motive here, since you are after all now gone
from the game. I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em.
** I personally think the ump needs a new set of glasses. But it's easy
to say, now that I'm in the stands and you guys are still on the playing
field. -grin-
And again, you and anyone else should take my opinions for exactly
what they are: merely my opinions. Assign whatever worth you choose
to them.
** I value them. But they are also irrelevant, given that they are ex
post facto and probably no one in the Observer corps or outside of this
game give a rat's ass.
But thanks for opining.
The Celestial Tsar Faz
Private message from Italy to Germany:
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> >With Edi around, I can't mount as effective an
> >attack on France. For one, I'll have to remove a unit this turn and
> >I'll also have to watch my back for a while. sigh
>
> I know what you mean. Still, what are the chances that Edi might back off
> on you in order to allow you the opportunity to assist me with France?
> It's starting to look like an F draw (or, more realistically, an F or T
> solo). If you and work on France, Edi can work on Turkey (maybe even with
> your help).
Not gonna happen. Edi is threatening to throw the game France's way
unless
Turkey lets him live. That would take the form of working with France
AGAINST me to help France across the stalemate line. Now, since I
figure
my only hope of survival is to tie up F & T by making myself
indespensible
to BOTH of them, that makes Edi Public Enemy #1 in Italian Post Offices.
I don't want either F or T to win outright, but for now I have to look
out
for #1.
Cal
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Your thoughts?
Sure. Why not remove that army sitting out in the middle of nowhere
in TUN? We can make sure that wherever John retreats TYS, we will
boot him out in the fall.
John's the big threat, now. He's the one who can romp through the
north and center and grab for TUN for 18. My units are way out of
position, and Edi is very alive and kicking. I think it's crucial
that we maintain a forward defense against John, so that a stalemate
line can be achieved.
I'm in this with you all the way now, Cal. Edi is leaving me no
choice. He's leaving none of us any choice. His throw-game threat,
while I still don't think it's that large, is still possible. (I just
haven't given him the satisfaction of telling him that I think that's
the case.) ;)
I urge you to disband A TUN. Let me know if there is anything I can
do or any reassurances I can give to help you make your decision.
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> France is at ten, only. And he can't build in MAR, which is a happy
> thing. I suspect Pitt will disband F GOB, and I think you're right
> about Edi disbanding F ALB.
>
> Edi's moves were good. Oh well, I suppose it'd be too much to ask for
> for this to be easy...
This game is getting me very depressed. Anytime I try something,
something else F@#$s it up.
> I agree, wiping Edi out still seems like the right call. He's being
> difficult still, and he's trying to deal for a center or two back, and
> I'm telling him no, and he's still threatening throw-game leverage.
> Looks like it's me, you and Pitt against John, Edi and Jamie.
> Sounds good. What do you think about your removal? I'm thinking A
> TUN might be best, and even if John retreats to ROM or TUN, we can
> kick him out in fall. Thoughts?
Yeah, but not good ones. My entire plan was predicated on Edi being
down to no more than one. I figured I'd have the luxury of facing
ONE direction for a change. Sigh. It's pretty apparent that I'm
going to have to remove that fleet in Western. Anything else will
leave me open to Edi and, unfortunately, you aren't in a position
to help yet.
In case you're wondering (hey, this IS Diplomacy! :) ), no, I'm NOT
turning back against you; I just think that for me to survive, Edi must
die and I'm in trouble because he hasn't. I certainly hope you
understand that I have to pull up against France (for now anyway).
Your thoughts?
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I never told Hohn I would back out of the attack on Austria. How did he
> know?
Well, if you didn't tell Hohn about you and Russia backing out of the
attack... I think some process of elimination is in order here?
:)
Cal
Private message from France to Italy:
I never told Hohn I would back out of the attack on Austria. How did he
know?
Private message from France to England:
I was in steady communication with Italy before the moves, and I have sent
him several messages since. He's finally responded, just now. He says he
was still upset over being left out of the loop, that Turkey could be
stopped as easily later as now, I'm over the stalemate line, and he thought
Edi would be down to one unit. Because the last is not true, he's
rethinking.
Can we dislodge nth? That would prevent the convoy.
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I did want to mention one other thing. This game is destined for a draw.
> We are all role players, in that sense. The question for Italy is whether
> you will be part of the draw. I am quite certain I will be, but your
> situation is more precarious. That's just the nature of playing Italy, and
> I do think that you have done about as well as anyone can do from what is
> no doubt the worst starting position in the game. I hope you make it to
> the end.
Thankx. Me too.
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Let's review the situation. Not out of the goodness of my heart, but
> because I have the greatest interest in having Italy as a friend, I have
> supported you, never attacked you, and now, because you found it so
> distressing to be left in the dark, told you everything I had planned.
> Your response is to move against me, leaving yourself, I might note, open
> to Turkey's inevitable attack. The only way your attack can succeed in any
> reasonable time is to allow Turkish fleets out of the corner. Are you
> really ready to trust him that far? Has he done anything but double-cross
> you? Why should he do otherwise? Not that Hohn's a bad guy, but Turkey
> has no interest in a healthy Italy.
He does if I'm a counterbalance against you. Like you he realizes that
this game is between France & Turkey with me as the balance of power.
Neither of you can afford to see me eliminated (although with Edi still
at 3, this is less certain) because that would (eventually) put both of
you too close to 18 for the other to trust. I've been counting on that
for a while.
> I also observe that Turkey's so-called attack on Austria was awfully weak.
> In fact, it's almost as if Austria knew what was coming. Granted, Edi's
> tactics were nothing short of brilliant, but still, knowing Turkey would be
> so limp-wristed must have made his task easier. My prediction: Turkey will
> shove Austrian armies right up your behind. You might like to know that
> the first message I received was from Edi, on how to wipe out Italy.
Hohn answered this in his broadcast earlier. He had planned to take out
Budapest until you and Russia backed out of YOUR supposed intention of
taking Vienna. Like Hohn, I don't understand Russia's actions in going
out with a whimper. I know I'd never do that if i was in his position.
(Who knows? You may get a chance to see me prove this...grin)
> My builds are obvious, so you know what's coming. I suggest that when you
> select which unit to remove, you consider what would defend Italy against
> A-T. You will have France's help, even now, if you only ask.
Well, considering that Edi is around at 3 centres, I guess I better ask.
My only hope in this game is to be, as mentioned above, the swingman
between you and Turkey. That means Edi has to go and I certainly can't
do it on my own.
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> What were you thinking?
Since I have other mail from you to answer, I'll keep this one short.
1- I was still upset by your previous "perfidy".
2- You have a better chance to cross the board-wide stalemate line
than Hohn and thereby win the game.
3- I felt Hohn could be stopped as easily later as sooner, so it
made more sense to go against you when the opportunity presented
itself.
4- I THOUGHT Edi was going down to no more than one centre. Having
him STILL at 3 will probably change my plans. That will probably
depend on you.
Cal
Private message from England to France:
Hope you don't mind:
Germany says he will 'try to entice' me 'back into the German camp', if
I'll listen, and I said I'm all ears.
GKJ
Private message from France to Germany:
Well, Italy's message to you about seals it. He's got an odd perspective
on things. He blamed me for his undoing. In fact, he refused to believe
me when I told him I would not support him in Vienna. He went ahead as if.
I also told him I did not want to move to Ion, but still he executed the
order. And it's all my fault. Last turn, I went as far as I could to make
things right, and he attacked me.
He'll be lucky to survive. The way things are going we might end with that
TGF draw after all.
To be explicit, yes, I would give up Mun and Hol next year. My fleet in
Holland would hold to support and to kill the English fleet. It would then
go to the Med. We'd create a lot of DMZs, I think, more or less by
default, but we can call 'em that too.
So, we hit Warsaw together, right?
Private message from Germany to Turkey:
>I'm curious. Why'd you disband F NWY instead of F GOB?
It was a tough call. Initially, I planned on disbanding F BOT so I could
hold the NTH this spring and take EDI in the fall. However, the more I
looked at the board, the more I realized that I needed BOT-BAL in the
spring to cover BER/KIE or BAL-SWE to cover NOR/DEN. I still can retreat
to EDI if he dislodges NTH in the spring and, if I gamble and move DEN-SWE
or BAL-SWE, bounce him in NOR/DEN in the fall.
My major concern is not losing any more home SC's. I'll just have to
slowly write off the peripheral SC's until some help arrives via pressure
on France in the south (hint, hint).
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to England:
>Oooooh, yuck. Impending peace between France and Germany spells curtains
>for England. Fight, fight, fight!
You know something I don't? If so, please let me in on the secret.
Otherwise, I was planning on seeing what I could do to entice you back into
the German camp...
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to France:
>Y'know, I am beginning to wonder if Italy's mission is to help Turkey win
>the game.
His press to me last night regarding his feelings about you and Edi would
indicate that he'd rather have that happen than let either of you make any
more gains. He actually said that he knew that Hohn might have an easier
chance at a solo based on what he (Cal) was going to do but he didn't care.
All the more reason that we have to do something quick to slow Turkey down.
>What would you think of killing the English fleet in spring?
I'm game.
>I can give you
>Holland in the Fall rather than Edinburg. I think we'd both be happier
>with the North Sea empty.
Yes and definitely yes. Meaning, just to be clear, that I retake HOL and
MUN while you take LON, correct? And NTH and NWG become DMZ's effective
immediately? Also, where does your HOL fleet go?
-Pitt
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
I'm curious. Why'd you disband F NWY instead of F GOB?
Hohn
Private message from England to Germany:
Oooooh, yuck. Impending peace between France and Germany spells curtains
for England. Fight, fight, fight!
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to France:
Yes, it's not a bad sign, but I always get suspicious when I see a good
sign. :)
Well, ok, see how things go with Italy. I doubt you'll get much info, since
he'll probably say the same thing no matter what he decides. Maybe not --
he might try to be honest even if he isn't going to swing back against
Turkey, keeping in mind the fact that he's almost certain to need your good
will later. But I doubt it. He'll tell you he's going to sit on the fence
this move, I bet.
BTW, I guess I'm somewhat more inclined (for you) to try to retake Nth, now
that you could either take it from Eng and keep the fleet Hol where it is,
or else take it from Hol and cover London. With Norway uncovered it's a
stronger tactical position (though presumably Bot-Swe? or is he headed for
Bal for defense?), and the German F Nth is unsupported. An interesting move
might be Eng-Nth, Hel S Eng-Nth, Bre-Eng. Then you could retake London if
he retreats there, so probably he'd retreat to Edi, which is less dangerous
for you (and a lot less dangerous for me!). The risk is that Nth-Eng keeps
the new fleet in port, an awful position.
You might also think of offering the assistance of Tyo to Italy, maybe on
the condition that the Italian moves are not hostile in Spring. On the
theory that a German attack on Munich doesn't look so good (probably fails,
might lose Kie, you'd just retreat behind his lines unless TUR War-Sil).
Let me know when your plans start to gel.
GKJ
Private message from France to England:
>>Huh. Like, you'd let him take London if he'll let you fight Italy? But I
know he
wouldn't buy that. I just don't get that adjustment. He wants to look like
he's no threat to you, maybe.<<
No, he never asked for London and I never offered it to him.
He does need friends. Look at how bad off he is. We are all over him.
I suggested we might figure something out, so yes, he wanted to look
friendly toward France. I promised him only further discussions, and still
he went for it. Not a bad sign, eh wot?
Private message from England to France:
>Perhaps I influenced Germany's decision.
Huh.
Like, you'd let him take London if he'll let you fight Italy? But I know he
wouldn't buy that. I just don't get that adjustment. He wants to look like
he's no threat to you, maybe.
> Regarding Italy, I did not know
>what to expect. I don't know that he had any other choice.
He could have disbanded the F Adr, I guess. But no doubt he must have
fleets to have any real chance.
> I'm working on
>him, just pointing out the obvious: I want him alive and Turkey will
>eventually want to pick his bones.
I basically mentioned the same thing, with a little more detail.
Interesting fact:
Even if you lose a center, you don't disband, of course; and even if
Germany should gain a center, he probably won't have anyplace to build.
GKJ
Private message from France to England:
Perhaps I influenced Germany's decision. Regarding Italy, I did not know
what to expect. I don't know that he had any other choice. I'm working on
him, just pointing out the obvious: I want him alive and Turkey will
eventually want to pick his bones.
Private message from England to France:
Hmmmm.
Removed the fleet in Norway?? What do you think that means? Apparently that
he's hunkering down for a defense. I think that was the wrong thing to do.
Well, that changes the Nth prospects.
What about the Italian disband of the Tun army, did you expect that? My
guess is that he'll support the Turkish Ion-Tun, expecting it to leave in
the Fall. But will he cover all his centers by Adr-Ven, giving up all
attacking prospects against Trieste? Or did you convince him, so now he'll
play the Wes fleet back to Tunis?
Turkey's builds certainly signal expected cooperation with Italy, anyway,
and yours were obvious.
GKJ
Private message from France to Germany:
Y'know, I am beginning to wonder if Italy's mission is to help Turkey win
the game.
What would you think of killing the English fleet in spring? I can give you
Holland in the Fall rather than Edinburg. I think we'd both be happier
with the North Sea empty.
Private message from France to Italy:
Italy removes A Tunis? I guess it was too much to hope F Wes would come
down.
You said earlier you want to be the balancer between France and Turkey. I
don't think that's achievable. The reason is that Turkey and I are not
equally engaged in the Med. Turkey's all over you, I'm not. I want you
alive and well to hold the line while we grind our way to the inevitable
draw. Turkey wants you dead as long as he's the only one picking your
bones. I don't need to have his words on this, it's obvious from the
disposition of forces.
Say, is your aim to help him win?
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Last updated on Sun, Feb 15, 1998.