| Press for Spring of 1902 in ghodstoo |
Movement
> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Turkey's orders.
Sorry all; it's been a hectic weekend.
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Master:
Edi Birsan wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:45:52 -0500 (EST), Cal White wrote:
>
> ><<< No Message Collected >>>
>
> ok this is a good one...let see my ESP says you are building Fleet Naples.
> Edi Birsan
> Midnight Games/Legends and Iron and Steam
> Edi @mgames.com
> Phone: 541-772-7872 (9am-4pm) Oregon
Hmmm, I have no record of a message sent out, so I'm not sure what this
was.
An echo of a message I DID send out?
In cyberspace, can anyone hear you scream?
Cal
signon
Private message from Italy to Master:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to England, Italy and
> Austria in 'ghodstoo':
Sorry to take so long guys. Real life calls for an evening and I get
flooded out with e-mail!
> 1) Germany. Edi and I had discussed a delay in hitting Germany until =
> Fall 1902. In retrospect, I see no utility in such a move., for the =
> following reasons:
> a) Germany will *NOT* be suspecting a combined A/R hit in spring. The =
> timing will be sweet, to the tune of:
> AUS: tri-Tyo, Vie-Boh
> RUS: War (build) to Sil, Ukr-War (thence to Pru)
> Munich is a goner, and the chances of Berlin falling (assuming Swe-Bal, =
> too) is equally good.
>
> b) Not building in the north keeps King Jamie happy.
> c) This is within our combined resources, as Turkey will be down to =
> two in Fall (losing Bul to Edi in spring, and Con to me in fall). =
> And--quite honestly--the E/I doesn't need Germany in France, and *no =
> one* is going to help Pitt, right?
>
> In fact, E/I (probably Eng) can play "good cop" to our "bad cop," =
> offering Pitt alliance and support in fall, as a reaction to the "base =
> perfidy" of A/R -- and then stab him from behind a turn later!
I agree with the tsar here. I see no reason to wait even a turn for the
attack on Germany. He is not likely to move far enough out of position
in a turn or two to justify the wait.
> 2) Builds. I am now leaning toward A War in addition to A Sev. Like I =
> said above, timing in this one is moot; why wait another turn and blow =
> the chance for taking SCs (Mun, Ber) in a fall season?
>
> 3) The South. We're solid here. Edi's got BUL in spring, and will =
> support me to CON in fall.
>
> What say my fellow Quadripartiters?
Sounds good to me. The plan has worked fine so far. Why change it now?
:)
Cal
Private message from Italy to Master:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Just a short note to you before I send a similar, "inclusive" message to =
> E/I; need to set the proper appearance for our English partner, eh wot?
Yep, but I'm REALLY starting to get swamped now. I think my plan to
reply to EVERY letter is kaput. Had to go see my girlfriend's son's
Open House for Air Cadets tonight. Leaves me about half an hour to
reply to a dozen messages...
> Edi just called. He's pushing for me to build F StP(nc), as "we're =
> going to have to hit Eng sooner or later, and you might not be able to =
> build a fleet up there in 1903 or beyond..." Not necessarily to hurt =
> Jamie, but to *at least* bamboozle Germany (Nwy-Swe, Swe-Den, supported =
> by Eng F Nth in fall).
>
> Quite honestly, there's some method to that madness. Germany will never =
> expect a 180* reversal in fall if I'm in Nwy. Also, this move ensures =
> England is '[with us," by forcing him to support me to Den if he wants =
> me to vacate Nwy! Of course, it probably pisses him off, to boot...
>
> Cal, I'm *REALLY* concerned about your builds and any help vs Edi. He's =
> now intimating that "perhaps it would be better" if we waited until FALL =
> to hit Germany! he wants to move Vie-GAL(!!) in spring while I move =
> Ukr-War(!!!), to 'show surprise at being stabbed by Edi and further =
> confuse Germany." Who's more surprised and bamboozled here?!
>
> What does this all have to do with you? Well, let's assume Edi's really =
> just being 'truthfully devious.' He gets Bul in spring, and supposedly =
> supports me to Con in fall. What do you get in 1902? Possibly nothing. =
> EDI'S TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLE 1903 MOVEMENT AGAINST YOU, WHEN TURKEY'S =
> DOWN TO AN INSIGNIFICANT AND HARMLESS TWO CENTERS. And realistically, =
> what can you do to stop it? You'll have maybe one fleet in the area =
> (TyS) and no builds....
>
> What am I supposed to do then? Hit a 6-center Austria with a proxy Turk =
> ally, while you scrounge for centers and England presses on in his =
> private little war? =20
I spent this afternoon thinking that, if Hohn builds a fleet in Smyrna,
it probably means that he and Edi have come to an agreement. My only
possible response to that would be to pull back from France and hit
Edi. This would be a bad thing because I'm not ready for it and it
would thrown a real monkey wrench into the entire board...
Then I got home this evening and see a message from Pitt (finally) and
he says that he is NOT going to support me to Marseilles. He prefers to
try for Paris and will support me to Mar if (and only if) he gets Paris
and his Munich-Burgandy follow-up move succeeds.
I don't like those odds just to get a single build...
Any attack I make will be rather feeble for now and I'll want your help
so I can get maximum effect.
Oh, don't think I'm going off half-cocked and plan a complete reversal.
This depends on a few things: 1) Hohn's build; 2) any more noise Edi
makes to you about attacking me; and 3) how YOU feel about this. I
would REALLY like some input on this as it hasn't completely
crystallized in the old brain yet.
> "It is to laugh."
Uh huh...
> I really wish in retrospect we just didn't stab Edi right off the bat, =
> Hohn or not. It's going to work out that we'll (I'll) be in the soup =
> against them, anyway...how ironic.
> Ah well, if wishes were horses, eh?
As you can see above, maybe they will be...
> Do what you can to work on England for centers. I'll make the same =
> noise in the next letter to the Sub-QC (should be out within 30 mins of =
> this one).
>
> Let me know your ideas, thoughts, etc, and whether you think Edi really =
> is still sincere when he proposes a 'fake move' to GAL to spoof Germany =
> with a "later" hit on him....
In a word, bullshit. Succinct enough? I just have this gut feeling
that Edi has cut a real deal with Hohn.
Comments?
Cal
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Please, oh pretty please, would you be so kind as to be my friend?
Dear Pitt,
Only on Sundays. :-)
"The truth is as hard to hide as it is to tell."
Nathan
Private message from Russia to England:
Hello gents
Re KJ's last (most recent) note:
- A pity Pitt's not building F Kiel. While that may not be very =
compassionate toward England, he and I will be able to handle Pitt, =
whether he's got 1 or 2 fleets. However, If he smells Edi or me coming =
(and I've received THREE "build in StP, not War" notes from him =
tonight!), what's to prevent him from bouncing SIL or TYO and wrecking =
all the timing?
- He did indeed tell me he's not anti-English (thought I'd test the =
waters with the Kaiser, and the waters are clear): he wants support to =
PAR (so much for the soap-opera twists and turns of =
"Supporting-to-Mar-via-Gas-unless-it's-Paris-on-a-Tuesday" story lines =
we're trying to weave for him).=20
- We have to keep him looking (and moving) westward, to prevent a defeat =
of the opening salvo. Maybe in this case it woukld be a good idea to =
(as with Edi) promise Pitt Par, i.e., Bur-Par, Mun-Bur (i.e., "Pitt, =
move to Bur and pay us back by supporting Cal in fall"); think that =
might be a player?
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to Germany:
This is getting familiar!
Pitt, I understand completely your need (and desire) for PAR. In truth, =
you'll be lucky (or very, very persuasive diplomatically) to get it. =
E/I, as I understand it, are out for themselves, and are possibly =
looking at building Cal up to buttress against an Edi stab (Gre-Nap via =
Aeg, Tri-ven, etc, when Cal's exposed westward).
If I were a betting man, I'd bet they will be asking YOU for support=20
(for Pie-Mar?), or seeing if they can't drag you out to GAS for fall =
support for them...
Of course, I could be wrong (hope so).
My question: if England builds F Lvp and F Edi, then why do I need the =
second=20
fleet up north? If that happens, then I expect Eng-Mao (to pin F Por), =
F lvp-Iri, and
Edi-Nth (or Nwg). In other words, YOU would either get Nth, or bounce =
IF you acted
hostile. If you just minded your own business, then I'm in Nwy (he =
can't take it with just one fleet), and you're in Den (and Hel if you =
built a 2nd fleet).
You could still do the Bel hit and also sortie for Nth, and I *would* =
build a second fleet up there in F'02. (Turkey would be at 2 by then, =
and I'd have indications of Edi's "benevolence" or not).
>From the sounds of things, we can indeed wait until 1903 to spring the =
GR trap. My only concern is that no one springs an E/A (or E/I) trap on =
you in the interim. =20
Bottom line: I can take--and hold--Nwy this turn with one fleet, but =
will still consider a second build up there. Much rides on your intent =
and plan for builds, Kaiser.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to Germany:
Pitt
Guess I should've read all these notes before I sent my first one!
A lot of what you're concerned about (a potential A/R subtrefuge) is =
exactly what I worry about (A/G, or E/G). No matter how many times I =
say I'm not after you, I realize you won't entirely believe it--I'll =
just have to live with that uneasiness.
I guess my question has a lot of the 'chicken and the egg' sequencing to =
it, i.e.,
If I build F StP(nc), will you build F Kiel and help hit Eng? =20
If the answer to that is "no," then I'd much rather build an army to =
face Edi. He's apparently been talking to Jamie about 'long-term =
alliance," and I've heard vague rumors of a Gal move. YOU may think =
something's prearranged; I can assure you *I* don't consider anything =
with Edi as "prearranged." I see him at 6 (possibly 7) by Fall '02, and =
I sincerely do *not* see him desiring another strong land power as an =
adjacent neighbor, when you could pair up with you vs me, or with Jamie =
vs us both.
We can discuss this at greater length after exchanging a couple more =
notes and/or seeing the builds.
I understand your potential distress if A War gets built. I'm very =
much considering F STP(nc), but it wouldn't hurt to have a German =
indication of builds to help me along...Dang, I wish I could've built =
BOTH War and StP...but Turkey beckons.
Tsar Faz
Private message from England to Russia:
Amici,
(Faz)
>Gentle KJ
>I agree with all of your previous notes' data. My one observation (in =
>the 'so what'
>category): just as you mentioned the non-need to play mind games with =
>Germany if we're all jumping him, so too would I reply the same way =
>(i.e., when you note mentions how you can plausibly deny him support to =
>Paris). As you said, if we're not doing good cop/bad cop, and A/R come =
>a'chargin' from the East, does it matter if you're nice to him or not?!
In the context in which I was mentioning it, yes, it does. I was looking
into the possibility of persuading Germany to aid Italy in gaining Marseilles.
I raised the possibility that Germany would be in Gas in the Fall, and that
Edi would have surrounded Munich. Then Italy could suggest that if only
Italy gained Marseilles, it would be possible to attack Austria with the new
unit.
Then I asked myself, "But wouldn't Pitt insist that a better use of A Gas
would be to take Paris?" So I answered, "Yes, he would." So I continued,
"But I could refuse to support him to Paris. But then would he really agree
to help Cal take Italy?", I wondered. How could I persuade him that it would
make more sense for him to help Cal into Mar? So I thought, "Well, maybe if
I explained that the only way to get all those centers from France quickly
would be for Italy to get Mar first, then Germany get Par later...."
Ok? You see?
>Btw, has anyone yet heard from Pitt (or Edi, perchance)?
Just heard from Pitt. He didn't say anything much, though, just a lot of
nods to what I'd said earlier (largely about him not building a F Kie).
Cheers!
Gentle King J.
Private message from Russia to Germany:
Pitt
many thanks for your recent note; am pressed for time, so I'll leave
you with this:
- You may not feel sanguine about hitting England, despite the fact you =
can take BEL and probably Nth (especially in fall, if you built =
Kie-Hel). Regarding the lack of a STP build: I have to be slightly =
cryptic now (you'll see what I'm up to soon enough--and relax, I'm not =
after you). Nonetheless, I don't need a StP unit to take Nwy, or to =
work with/support you in fall. Swe-Nwy, coupled with german fleets, =
works rather nicely--especially if Eng builds F Lvp for the MAo front.
Still, I fully understand your hesitance to jump on a source of aid vs =
France. I will discuss more with you soon enough....
We will still have "peace in our time."
Tsar Faz
A Friend Indeed
Private message from Russia to England:
Gentle KJ
I agree with all of your previous notes' data. My one observation (in =
the 'so what'
category): just as you mentioned the non-need to play mind games with =
Germany if we're all jumping him, so too would I reply the same way =
(i.e., when you note mentions how you can plausibly deny him support to =
Paris). As you said, if we're not doing good cop/bad cop, and A/R come =
a'chargin' from the East, does it matter if you're nice to him or not?! =
Other than the (obvious) desire for a cut of the German spoils, we =
really don't need English help in 1902 -- which is good, as you can't do =
much besides grab Nwy anyway. The good part, though, is that Germany =
can do little in 1902 (in France). I wouldn't worry about plausibly =
denying him anything; I'd just pummel him, or at least watch him run =
back to MUN to play cover-the-center.
Btw, has anyone yet heard from Pitt (or Edi, perchance)? I'd be curious =
to view his reply to my "forest-for-the-trees" note (as well as Jamie's =
nicely accentuated support of my note, calling for us to heed to the =
original plan)
Tsar Faz
Reply to nebitner, Observer Maximus:
Nice phrase. I leave you with two that guide me through my travails in =
life.
1) Spoken by the current Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, =
LTG Hughes, before the Senate Armed Services Committee on 6 Feb:
"There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to =
conduct or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the =
introduction of a new order of things." -MACHIAVELLI
2) Found on a graffiti wall in a South Side (Pittsburgh) bar:
"I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me, than a frontal lobotomy." =
-ANONYMOUS
Tsar Faz
>Broadcast message from [email protected] as Observer in 'ghodstoo':
>
>
> "It is worse to suspect a friend, than to have been deceived by
>one."
Please, oh pretty please, would you be so kind as to be my friend?
.
.
.
-KaiserPitt
Private message from England to Germany:
Caught me just before I go home.
Glad you checked in.
Looking forward to seeing whether A or R build any fleets; if not, surely
they must clash soon.
Next movement rounds should be fun, anyway. Here's to fireworks!
Gentle K. J.
Private message from Germany to Russia:
>Tried calling you at the number listed for you in one of the first =
>"notification messages," but it was your work number.
My home # is 617-734-6315. It's a home office number but just announce
yourself if you get the machine and I'll pick up if I'm home.
>What do you envision for (1) German cooperation with E/I versus France
Some, I hope. I'm not yet clear on how it will work out but I expect some
assistance in taking PAR. My concern is that England has the upper hand in
the situation and I'm not real happy abou tthat.
>(2) build ideas for this year (perhaps in a cooperative mode with me)??
I've already snet out replies on this but a) I wold like to see F STP/nc
and b) I would not like to see A WAR.
>The two are exclusive
I was rather hoping not. You see, if you ensure that you take (and hold)
NWY by virtue of building F STP/nc, you gain the SC and lose nothing
(England may be a bit irritated but you can probably smooth that over - I
doubt he will want to go to war over it if you indicate a willingness to
stop with NWY). At the same time, he will feel the need to continue to woo
me if he's worried about you, ensuring I get PAR. Then depending on how
things work out, I might be able to take BEL in the fall, while I use DEN
to support you into NTH and you hold NWY. Alternatively, we can wait until
next year to spring the GR trap on him.
In either case, we can, thus, accomplish both actions me taking a French SC
and you taking NWY). I think this plan is the optimal one for us. Please
let me know what you think.
-KaiserPitt
Private message from Germany to England:
>I must inform you that shortly after the results of the second season's
>movement, quite a lot of powers (everyone who spoke to me) urged me to
>build two fleets on the North Sea.
Of course. They're concerned (rightfully so) about a strong EG alliance.
Two fleet builds on the North Sea would be detrimental to such an alliance.
>I will build F Lvp
Very good.
>A certain party continues to believe (or rather, insist) that my
>meager resources are best spent on my east coast.
[...]
>But as I understand the rules, *I* get to give the actual order
:-)
>It would be embarassing for me if my critic should be able to point to a F
>Kie and laugh at my naivete. But I'll think no more about that!
Good. Put your mind to rest.
>There's no doubt in my mind that some fiendish plan is brewing in Vienna,
>and that the fiend has some eager cohort on a string, too. I don't know
>just what's up. Keep your ear to the ground.
My ear is so close to the ground that I'm beginning to resemble an ostrich.
All I know is that Edi's trying to pull some strings. I don't who, if
anyone, is dancing to his tune, though.
-KaiserPitt
Private message from Germany to Russia:
>I forgot to add this to my first note. If Austria shows signs of
>building two armies on the borders (either yours Vie/Tri or mine
>Vie/Bud), I might consider an Army Warsaw myself.
I understand your concern but I'd be rather uncomfortable with that build.
And, to be frank, Faz, after reading this message and Edi's subsequent
public subtle saber-rattling, I have to wonder if perhaps both weren't
coordinated. His words would give you the justification you'd need to
build that army, which I would very much like not to see happen.
I point this out not by way of making any sort of accusation but simply to
show that I'm sensitive to all of these issues and that I'm at least
peripherally aware of the subtleties involved. I truly want our alliance
to work but I don't want to look the other way and invite disaster, either.
I hope you will consider that a plus in an ally.
-KaiserPitt
Private message from Germany to Italy:
>Pitt: well, that went quite smoothly! Thanks for the tip on France's
>move; it worked out quite well for both of us.
Yes, indeed, it did. Thanks for acting on it.
>What are the odds of you supporting me to Marseilles this turn?
Rather dicey, I'm afraid. First off, the support would almost surely be
cut (what else will A PAR have to do?). Secondly, if I were him and I knew
that I could cut BUR support, I'd move SPA-GAS to prevent BRE-GAS. Those,
combined with POR-MAO in the spring, cover all of his SC's this year. In
fact, unless you attack MAR from PIE, he could prevent me from taking PAR
by PAR-BUR with MAR support.
Thus, I think I have to try for PAR in the spring. If I succeed, and if
I'm able to move MUN-BUR, I should be able to give you support in the fall.
If you think I'm overlooking something, please let me know.
-KaiserPitt
Private message from Germany to Russia:
>First off, my effusive thanks for Sweden.
You are most welcome.
>I have heard from England, who still wants Nwy, wants me not to build in
>StP, and who *SAYS* he'll be building F Lon/Edi and F Lvp...one for MAo
>duty and the other to Nwy.
That's what he tells me, too. Still, were I you, I don't see how I could
pass up a free shot at NWY. I think England renounces his claim to NWY if
he doesn't take it in 1901, don't you?
>CONFIDENTIAL: If, Pitt, you think the time to hit England should come
>sooner, vice later, you might want to consider Den-Nth as a
>bounce/invasion piece, *or perhaps your armies hitting Bel as you sail
>Den-Nth.*
Frankly, Faz, I can't consider either of these without a F STP/nc or A STP
build. Then, possibly.
>Anyway, *we're* still tight and friendly, and will be so for the
>duration, if you so desire.
I do indeed. I hope that you will continue to feel the same way.
-KaiserPitt
Private message from Germany to England:
>Hm, yes, I guess I have to agree that John got what he deserved.
>
>(And for taking a risk on a bold move, I deserve what I just got, too,
right?)
Sure. No guts, no glory, right?
>Off hand, I'd say my A Bre is at your service for S'02 at least, probably
>for all of '02. Several options, your call. Lots of time to think about it.
Thank you. I'll let you know after the builds process.
-KaiserPitt
"It is worse to suspect a friend, than to have been deceived by
one."
There is no way to send a message, via the judge, to a specific observer
and not reach all observers (in fact anything sent to O will go into the
game's history - the very anithesis of privacy).
So you will have to send to the address identified in the header.
In this case that IS Ken;s email. I remember thinkinghis address looks
just like what Isaw when I get my PG&E bill:
KMH4%Rates%[email protected]
Well, maybe I add a few %%^@!$% PGE #@$#@&&!@ etc...
Andy
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Austria in 'ghodstoo':
> Austria:
> I received a message from an Observor and I think this is his return address
> but I am not sure.
> When we players send a message to another we are identified by the judge et
> al, however is it that in the case of an Observer that they are all grouped as
> an observer?
Yes, although they are labeled by their e-mail addresses as well,
since this is a standard game and not a gunboat game. In gunboat
games, all observer press and broadcasts look the same (except to the
extent that they're signed differently), namely as coming from
"observer."
> I would like to respond to this person but this address does not look right.
> Please Advise.
> >Message from KMH4%Rates%[email protected] as Observer to Austria in
> >'ghodstoo':
That looks like a valid, albeit long, e-mail address. I'd go for it;
it should work.
And Edi, the price of this information is an attack on Russia. ;)
Hohn
I received "updates" from most of you, but those of you who haven't
given them to me, would you please pass them along? Just a few sentences
is fine.
Thanks!
Jim
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Cal
Thanks for the call last night. I think our conversation was
beneficial, eh?!
The board will be abuzz after spring.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to Germany:
Hi Pitt
Wanted to respond to your latest. My replies this time have the
asterisk (*).
>
>>I'm sorry I've caused you grief and (needless) worry with the A War
>>build.
>I certainly hope my worry is needless. You'll certainly have an
>oppoprtunity to demonstarte that.
* My concern is not with my German intentions; I've already stated them.
My concern is that you don't get into a nervous tizzy and throw punches
at shadows. Hence my reason for the semi-extensive attempts at
reassurance. If you stay cool and don't make provocative moves, believe
me, neither will I. I'm more than willing to declare some obvious DMZs
(Bal, Sil, etc)
>>You have nothing to fear from the Tsar. I have no axe to grind with
>>you. Quite honestly, Edi and I continue to have our "love-in"
>Yeah. That was the factor that multiplied my worry about A WAR. I'm very
>interested in what you and Edi have in mind.
* I would say the same thing about any E/G relationships. As for Edi
and I, we have arrangements, the same as everyone else. The Prime
Directive is death to Turkey. Whether Edi casts covetous eyes toward
you or Italy (or me!) after that is anyone's guess...mine included..
>>I'll try and be a little more open very soon. Quite honestly, G/R
>>relations won't (can't) flower much more until we discuss The English
>>Issue.
>I've *been* discussing it! Frankly, I'm getting the sense that you're
>ducking me on that issue.
* Really? So, asking you to ally, to hit Bel, build F Kiel, to bounce
Edi-Nth, have me take Nwy, putting 3-4 fleets on Nth (all the while
causing Eng to go -1) is "ducking you on the issue?!" The pot calls the
kettle black here, methinks. (And let's not forget the unanswered
question I just asked you yesterday -- What would you do if I went to
Nwy, i.e., can I count on continued good neighborliness or not?) If
anything, I could say YOU've been ducking the issue due to lack of
desire to commit.
>
>>But I sense nothing concrete from you until France falls and/or
>>you get more builds; true?
>No, not true. I asked for F STP and for you to take NWY, along with F
>SWE-SKA. You take NTH (or try) in the fall. I take PAR this year - we
>each get a build. Because your moves in the north drive England closer to
>me, I can stab him next spring and we both gain in 1903. How much more
>concrete can I get?
* Just an observation from me: You and Edi tend to have the same style
here, i.e., let someone else (in this case, me) make the overt,
blantantly anti-whoever move (hit Bla, hit Arm, take Nwy and Nth, etc).
You guys chill out for a couple extra turns, then come in with a late
haymaker. Don't get me wrong--it's FINE playing, and allows for a
certain, shall we say, "perusal of the board" (and possible opt-out
without hurting one's realtions). But what do I read above: FAZ takes
Nwy; FAZ goes for Nth; Pitt builds an unobtrusive army, gets a center
with the target country's help, and then builds for a move to ????
I dunno, I kind of thought we could just say, "The heck with the board,
let's hit England now, while he's reducable, while his Italian ally gets
zero builds in 1902," and all that. You would have STILL got your build
(Bel) while preventing an E (or I) build in France, thus balancing them
against a viable France, and standing to gain big-time in 1903-1904.
And this while having a firm Russian friend, an preoccupied Austria, a
weak/compliant/grateful France, AND an England whose brilliant +2
opening in 1901 now sees a reduction a year later! How the pundits
would talk....I guess I'm not seeing the whole picture here??????
It's just a matter of perspective, I guess; we each think the other is
foot-dragging. I'm assuming you fear an A/R vs you (it is to laugh),
and I fear chumminess between growing E and G while I'm mired down vs T
and a growing Edi. I was just hoping to cement the good relations
we've had to date into something a little more concrete (hey,
'concrete,' cement...' I made a funny!)
So I'll ask again, so as to not be accused of 'ducking the issue;'
1) What would you do if I took Nwy?
2) Can I count on continued G good will and non-aggression in relation
to the same from the Tsar?
Hoping for great answers to both, Noble Kaiser...
Tsar Faz
Private message from Italy to Master:
Quick recap of a long phone call I had with Mar (Russia).
- told him that none of my three options looked any better than
2 on a 1-10 scale;
- these options are: continue west against France; turn against Edi;
inform Germany that Austria is attacking him this turn in hopes that
this information will encourage him to help me into Marseilles THIS
turn (my only hope of a build) so that I can help him against Austria;
- Mark told me that he has a very interesting plan for attacking Edi
this turn that he has told no one about and am I interested?;
- since this is the only plan that offers me ANY potential future, I
agree;
- we hit Austria this turn;
- heh heh
Cal
Private message from Germany to France:
For what it's worth, I *am* concerned about the situation I'm finding
myself in. However, you are not offering me a reasonable alternative.
>Mun-Kie, Kie-Den, Den-Nth
All bounces because DEN-NTH bounces.
>Bur-Bel, Hol S Bur-Bel
Probably works. So, I get one SC for my stab of England. Is it worth it?
>completely unhinge the English assault
I just don't see how it's that significant. It seems to me that it's more
likely to just tick him off and encourage him to throw a bone to Russia or
Austria to join him in coming after me.
Please tell me what I'm missing. I am very willing to reconsider the EG
alliance if I can see a way that it will keep me from digging myself into a
deeper hole.
-Pitt
Austria:
I received a message from an Observor and I think this is his return address
but I am not sure.
When we players send a message to another we are identified by the judge et
al, however is it that in the case of an Observer that they are all grouped as
an observer?
I would like to respond to this person but this address does not look right.
Please Advise.
>Message from KMH4%Rates%[email protected] as Observer to Austria in
>'ghodstoo':
Edi Birsan
Midnight Games
[email protected]
Web site: www.mgames.com
Private message from Master to Germany:
Pitt, Please don't submit orders until I figure out what a fair new deadline
will be, but by all means keep negotiating. I want to look everything
over before I make a decision.
Jim
Private message from Russia to Germany:
Pitt! It worked! Note the reply from Kleiman, below.
Here's to us, partner!
---------------------------
Mark,
You should be fine. I'll resend your change to be sure. Had a pretty
severe judge problem this week - worse one ever for me...
Dave
At 06:46 AM 2/26/97 -0500, Fassio, M. MAJ SOC wrote:
>Guys: Sorry for going direct, but I hav a problem.
>
>I've been told by the Judge that G, T and R moves are overdue, despite
>me sending a bazillion requests since Saturday (and Sun, and Mon, and
>yesterday).
>
>This morning I sent PREMATURE orders before reading all my mail, and I
>DESPERATELY want to ensure the move "F Sweden - Norway", as opposed to
>moves I sent earlier. Will the Judge "stop" at my earlier orders sent
>this a.m. (i.e., it now locks me in at deadline) or will the Swe-Nwy
>move override?
>
>If it's at all possible to "manually override" the mistake, I
>desperately request it. Thanks!
>
>Faz
>MARK A. FASSIO, Maj, USAF
>Instructor, Dept of Social Sciences
>Room B117, Lincoln Hall
>ph (914) 938-3198 e-mail: [email protected]
>CREDERE! UBIDDERE! COMBATTERE!
>
>
>
Dave Kleiman
"I hope I didn't brain my damage". - Homer Simpson
Private message from Russia to Germany:
Hello Pitt
The good news and bad news department now begins...
Good news: Just received your note about deciding to hit England now.
I am
OVERJOYED at your reply, and I think you will clearly--clearly--see what
I have
planned here when the Judge comes back up.
Bad News: This morning I immediately read the oldest Dip notice, saying
that G,T and R moves were overdue. I fired a "Swe-holds" order to the
Judge along with my other 5 orders.
THEN I read your later-arriving message, in which you want us to commit
now! Aggghhh!
To avoid any suspicions that I've now 'rigged' and/or 'set you up' this
move, I am doing/have done the following:
- I sent a direct message to Dave Kleiman and to Jim, telling them that
I want to manually override the Judge (if I'm late now, what's an extra
3 minutes to replace the order with my "desired" one)? A copy of what
I sent is below.
(You can ask Jim-Bob to verify, if you wish.)
Guys: Sorry for going direct, but I have a problem.
I've been told by the Judge that G, T and R moves are overdue, despite
me sending a bazillion requests since Saturday (and Sun, and Mon, and
yesterday).
This morning I sent PREMATURE orders before reading all my mail, and I
DESPERATELY want to ensure the move "F Sweden - Norway", as opposed to
moves I sent earlier. Will the Judge "stop" at my earlier orders sent
this a.m. (i.e., it now locks me in at deadline) or will the Swe-Nwy
move override?
If it's at all possible to "manually override" the mistake, I
desperately request it. Thanks!
Faz
MARK A. FASSIO, Maj, USAF
Instructor, Dept of Social Sciences
Room B117, Lincoln Hall
ph (914) 938-3198 e-mail: [email protected]
CREDERE! UBIDDERE! COMBATTERE!
Pitt, please believe me; don't think this is a ploy. When you see the
Russian moves in toto, you'll see what's up. I will discuss the whole
game dynamics with you after spring results come out. TRUST ME ON THIS.
And, most importantly, THANK YOU for doing this! We're going to nail E
and others in this thing!!
Tsar faz
A true ally
Private message from Master to Master:
Jim,
Just Dave signing to check game status. Edi sent me a message with all of
the judge problems...
Dave
Private message from Germany to Russia:
Faz,
Rather than try to reiterate each point in our ongoing discussion I'm going
to try to hit the important ones.
>Am I reading this right? If so, then can I -- or can I not -- expect
>you to sail for Nth this turn? I would _hope_ this isn't a time to be
>evasive, Pitt. MUCH of what I do with sweden depends on your reply
>here (i.e., I either hold or I go to Nwy). Openness can only help
>solidify the RG friendship.
Openness it is. I, too, believe that we can only move forward with a GR
alliance if we are willing to take the leap of faith and commit to an
unequivocal course of action. I will order DEN-NTH this spring. I count
on you to move SWE-NWY.
>** What exactly IS 'the entire plan?' Why can't we grab Nwy and Nth and
>prepare for 1903 convoys? Is a second fleet StP necessary? No, it's
>not.
In retrospect, I suppose not. Frankly, I was hoping for a clear sign of
your intentions (clear to both me and England) but I certainly can't fault
you for electing to avoid the open hostility that F STP would have
indicated to England (though I hope you don't fault me for trying to get
you to make that statement...). In any event, I remain committed to GR and
I want to capitalize on England's exposure NOW, while we can still do so
effectively.
>You--quite logically and
>understandably--don't want to bite the hand you think will (potentially)
>"feed" you in France. Yet he can support you there in spring--the same
>spring that you're bouncing Nth, I'm taking Nwy, and you're in Bel.
Yes, you have convinced me. This, of course, will force me to aggressively
pursue additional diplomatic channels (France, Italy) after I make my stab
in order to blunt any English counterattack but I do believe that England
is not likely to be a long-term ally for me anyway, so this course of
action was inevitable.
>It's frustrating, because I see things
>differently than you (naturally). It's just a shame that we have to
>waste the spring turn when we could kick some serious butt.
As noted above, I am in agreement with you. I am not going to allow my
natural caution to prevent us from seizing the opportunity we now have. Of
course, this puts my fate in your hands to a large extent (a feeling I'm
sure you share). I'm willing to do that because I think it's in your best
interests to work with me on this, you have given me no reason to believe
that I can't trust you, and I think you realize full well that a stab of me
right now would likely have unpleasant side-effects (sorry for the impied
threat but I wanted to make sure you weren't overlooking the possibilities
- lord knows I'm not overlooking them with you).
So, to recap. DEN-NTH and SWE-NWY this spring. Press the advantage in the
fall in the manner best suited to a GR alliance. Please confirm.
Your friend and ally,
KaiserPitt
Private message from France to Germany:
Pitt, did you receive my message of yesterday? It was in regard to the
tactics for the upcoming turn. I asked why par-gas rather than spa-gas.
John
I for one have no problem with Observors asking questions in private of me. I
prefer that they give their full name and a simple address to respond to. I
do not think that the engagement of the populace at large is in any way a
detraction or an advantage in the game. Sort of adds to the chaos of the
scenes which is quite interesting at times.
There is no way to send a message, via the judge, to a specific observer and not reach all observers (in fact anything sent to O will go into the game's history - the very anithesis of privacy). So you will have to send to the address identified in the header. In this case that IS Ken;s email. I remember thinkinghis address looks just like what Isaw when I get my PG&E bill: KMH4%Rates%[email protected] Well, maybe I add a few %%^@!$% PGE #@$#@&&!@ etc... Andy ---------------------------------- Andy, We know where you live. We know where you are.... Oooops! Did your lights just flicker? And we cooperate with the phone company too.... ;) Ken ----------------------------------- As an aside for those of you who do not live on the Left Coast... PG&E stands for Pacific Gas and Electric Company... A highly underrated public utlility... and a highly underrated rock band of the 1960s. Ken ----------------------------------- Andy, How about a FTF game now that you are back in the Bay Area? KenPrivate message from Observer to Austria:
Austria, That is my address, but it is the long version. You can send mail to me at [email protected] and it will get here the same as that long one. KenThe GM probably should weigh in a bit on the Observers. I don't want to make it a rule, but I would urge that observers try to avoid making a habit of sending private press messages to players in the game. Broadcast press to everyone is fine, since it then can be responded to in public as well. While the primary point raised here is the technical problem of responding to observer press, my problem is that if a great deal of private observer press starts up, I'm going to get complaints from the players that I will view as having some degree of legitimacy. In simple terms, it takes up their precious time. I don't want to be perceived as a meany about it and I won't make it a rule, but try to keep your Observer press in the Broadcast domain. Thanks! I think you'll all agree that this has been a fun game to watch so far, and it will only improve as it goes. Thanks for your understanding, JimPrivate message from Russia to Master:
Hi Jim Don't know if I already sent you thoughts for this season or not. If not, here are some quickies... - Russia has decided to break with Austria. I fear Edi's growth (projected to 7 by 1903) more than I do a vengeful Turkey. In addition, Italy stands to remain weak, and I fear a longer-term AE against me and eventually Cal. Germany is another looming unknown, although he says he fears an AR. The original game plan under the Quadripartite was indeed an attack this turn into Tyo, Boh and Sil/Bal, while EI carve up France and then we turn on G. However, Italy excessively fears Edi, and has asked that we accelerate the hit on Austria. (I have helped hasten that fear by pointing out Tri-Ven and Gre-Nap, Ion C. It won't happen, but it's the perception in Italy's mind that matters.) If Cal's being up-front, this season should see a coordinated RI vs A. If that happens, who can predict the future--E will be upset that the QC Alliance has lost its southern prong vs F. Germany may see a potential to exploit (me?) by virtue of now having no enemies along its borders. A and T may ally now that they have a "common cause." (I'm hoping that Hohn sees a chance to "use me" to gain at Edi's expense via an RT, although this turn's move will see once again smash his A Bul in conjunction with Edi...not the best way for someone to profess a "new leaf!") Italy will not gain anything by this new policy shift. But he was going to 'come up dry' anyway in France in 1902. Now maybe we can hit Edi anew in 1903, with gains for him. And France will now be able to quasi-defend against two fronts, vice three. It's going to be a whacky year. Potential gains: Ser and Bud for me. Probable pitfalls: Edi suspects something, and bounces me via Tri-Ser, or just arranges a Tyo bounce with Germany, leaving him with two to cover Bud vs me in fall. The board alignment has changed, not-so-subtly...Private message from Russia to Germany:
Hi Pitt Glad to see the Judge is up and running; appreciate your replies! Our "pas des duex" continues with my replies (again, w/asterisks), below.... > MY big concern regarding this topic is that you don't go off in a >nervous tizzy and start punching at shadows that aren't there. Not my style. That's why I raise the issue, express my concerns, and try to talk them out. I prefer to resolve concerns in this manner than to just make observations, jump to potentially inaccurate conclusions, and then "go off in a tizzy". As I am doing with you, I hope you assume that my willingness to broach these subjects and discuss them is a positive thing. ** Indeed. Please don't infer that I see you as some "Nervous Nelley," ready to fight if you sense a problem. I don't. Unfortunately, it's the old Security Dilemma issue, where I chuckle at something you see as potentially threatening, and we don't see eye-to-eye on it. But yes, I too prefer calm 'diplomacy' versus agitated concern. (Hence MY 'nervousness' at wondering what some of your units--Kie and Den, for example--are up to. > Well, Turkey looks to be a pretty easy wrap for you and Austria, so I'd expect that both of you are beginning to look for other options. Italy is certainly a possibility for Austria (a strong one from the looks of the things). I don't have a clear sense of where you will go next, though. That *doesn't* mean that I assume that you are thinking of heading my direction but I don't want to assume you're not either. ** Granted. But the shoe fits my foot, too. As I said above, I have *NO* clear indications of what you're doing, other than nebulous ideas vs France. As with your statement, this 'doesn't' mean I fear an attack on me, but it doesn't go too far in reassuring me, either. We're mirror-imaging here, methinks. >C'mon...The prime A/R directive is "kill Tukey." After that >(late 1903), who can say what Edi has up his sleeve? Heck, you guys >could already have an A/G, for all I know... True. However, given my rather extended involvement in France at present, I think you'd have to agree that AG would be mostly beneficial to Austria at this point. I hope you think I'm at least skilled enough to not enter an alliance with a pro like Edi without unless I can be darn sure of receiving significant gains and not giving him the upper hand right from the get go. ** That goes without saying. I'm learning first-hand what it means to 'ride the tiger" with a master in Austria, who stands to gain more initially than I. I don't worry too much yet, as Italy does present a more lucrative target in 1903, once Turkey dies. Still, one never knows with Edi...or with a tournament winner such as yourself. >If you're concerned, then let's set up a bounce and/or DMZs, right now. >Me hit Den while you hit Swe. Or we both sail for Bal, or both Hold. >Whatever turns you on. I have no desire for aggression, but if your >concern runs high, then let me help ameliorate it. I appreciate the offer but I don't to get to that point if I can help it. As long as those units can be used for other, more productive purposes, for example NTH and Nwy, mutual bounces just to allay minor concerns are a criminal waste. ** What exactly are you saying here? You have potential doubts about my intentions, but you don't see a bounce as necessary? And you consider a bounce as a waste because there are more "productive" uses for them? If so, what are these uses? If I read this right, the "productive purposes" are (a) I go to Nwy and (b) you go to Nth? Am I reading this right? If so, then can I -- or can I not -- expect you to sail for Nth this turn? I would _hope_ this isn't a time to be evasive, Pitt. MUCH of what I do with sweden depends on your reply here (i.e., I either hold or I go to Nwy). Openness can only help solidify the RG friendship. I do see how you could believe that I'm evading the issue, as well, however. It's a "chicken or the egg" issue. I'm waiting for you to make a serious commitment to go after England, you're waiting me for to do eth same. Neither of us wants to get out in front on this issue. ** Again, I feel that I *have* made a serious commitment to go after England!! Taking Nwy when he expects it to be open is a sure sign of belligerence, and, if anything, gives YOU more leeway in the North, by throwing him more to your camp than mine. **The plan I mentioned WOULD work, Pitt. England is NOT using Eng to support BEL. He's using it to bounce France from Por-Mid, in order to ensure he (Eng) can get Iri-Mid in fall--again, supported by Eng. I don't buy your "concern" over lack of success in BEL. I think you expect Eng help to Paris, when in reality the EI are just biding their time. OK, let me take those items. You did suggest it but I responded by saying that I was concerned about our ability to acheive the entire plan successfully without another Russian unit (preferable a fleet) in STP. ** What exactly IS 'the entire plan?' Why can't we grab Nwy and Nth and prepare for 1903 convoys? Is a second fleet StP necessary? No, it's not. You elected not to do that, I presume, since you didn't want to tip your hand to England. I can easily accept that but it then means that I take all the risks. * Untrue. As I said, taking Nwy when Eng fully expects me to leave it alone is tantamount to war. I make the aggressive move to NTH. I make the attack on BEL (which probably fails, by the way, since England almost certainly uses ENG to support BEL just in case). ** Again, untrue. BEL would be yours. And, if you elect to opt out and see what happens, you can hold SWE in the spring and still take NWY in the fall. ** Strike three. I cannot take Nwy in fall if I hold in Sweden and "opt out." By then, England bounces me over Nwy because he is in Edi (not Nth!). I guess that's my frustration here. You--quite logically and understandably--don't want to bite the hand you think will (potentially) "feed" you in France. Yet he can support you there in spring--the same spring that you're bouncing Nth, I'm taking Nwy, and you're in Bel. He is not going to Nth and supporting Bel. Period. The moves would work, Pitt. You'd get paris (if your diplomacy works) AND Bel AND a bounce in Nth AND an active Russian ally. I guess there's not enough "ands" in here, eh? See what I mean? From my perspective, we're both afraid of making the first move becuase the other has an opt out strategy. ** It would appear to be the case!!! I did answer it but the judge ate it. I said that this was exactly what I wanted you to do and that I would in no way molest SWE. I didn't specify what DEN would do but I'm open to suggestions. ** You want a suggestion? How about Den-Nth?!!!?? :>) I mean, honestly, what other options are there? War vs me by going to Bal or Swe? Why? What about a Hold in Den? Isn't that a "criminal waste" you're so dead set against? I mean, you tell me, Pitt. What do YOU see as a viable option for Den? >After all, if you're worried about an E/I...and if the E/I's goal is to >lure you deeper into France with empty promises of support (to Par and >elsewhere)..then I would think you'd want a firm Russian ally Yes! Exactly! ** So why can't we agree on a strike vs a common enemy now, to reduce him and possibly cripple him? It's not that I don't believe it. It's that I'm concerned about our present difficulty in finding a way to build on the "no threat" phase and get to the the "active allies" phase. I'm still trying, though. ** In all honesty, so am I. It's frustrating, because I see things differently than you (naturally). It's just a shame that we have to waste the spring turn when we could kick some serious butt. Hopefully you'll come around when presented the evidence by EI. Until then, I remain The Friendly, and Alliance-Seeking, Tsar FazThe GM probably should weigh in a bit on the Observers. I don't want to make it a rule, but I would urge that observers try to avoid making a habit of sending private press messages to players in the game. Broadcast press to everyone is fine, since it then can be responded to in public as well. While the primary point raised here is the technical problem of responding to observer press, my problem is that if a great deal of private observer press starts up, I'm going to get complaints from the players that I will view as having some degree of legitimacy. In simple terms, it takes up their precious time. I don't want to be perceived as a meany about it and I won't make it a rule, but try to keep your Observer press in the Broadcast domain. Thanks! I think you'll all agree that this has been a fun game to watch so far, and it will only improve as it goes. Thanks for your understanding, JimI am going to try to change the deadline until Thursday evening. I want to make sure that everyone has the last chance (unincumbered by judge problems) to finalize what they want to do. You also have the time to safely check your orders (send those comments on the game to me and your submitted orders will be on the judge's reply). Now, it is possible that I will have trouble setting the deadline (by the way I sent a message to you that got lost about the deadlines and all, I apologize for being late getting back to all of you), if so, will someone assist me. This is my first judge deadline change as master.Private message from Russia to Master:
Hi Jim Don't know if I already sent you thoughts for this season or not. If not, here are some quickies... - Russia has decided to break with Austria. I fear Edi's growth (projected to 7 by 1903) more than I do a vengeful Turkey. In addition, Italy stands to remain weak, and I fear a longer-term AE against me and eventually Cal. Germany is another looming unknown, although he says he fears an AR. The original game plan under the Quadripartite was indeed an attack this turn into Tyo, Boh and Sil/Bal, while EI carve up France and then we turn on G. However, Italy excessively fears Edi, and has asked that we accelerate the hit on Austria. (I have helped hasten that fear by pointing out Tri-Ven and Gre-Nap, Ion C. It won't happen, but it's the perception in Italy's mind that matters.) If Cal's being up-front, this season should see a coordinated RI vs A. If that happens, who can predict the future--E will be upset that the QC Alliance has lost its southern prong vs F. Germany may see a potential to exploit (me?) by virtue of now having no enemies along its borders. A and T may ally now that they have a "common cause." (I'm hoping that Hohn sees a chance to "use me" to gain at Edi's expense via an RT, although this turn's move will see once again smash his A Bul in conjunction with Edi...not the best way for someone to profess a "new leaf!") Italy will not gain anything by this new policy shift. But he was going to 'come up dry' anyway in France in 1902. Now maybe we can hit Edi anew in 1903, with gains for him. And France will now be able to quasi-defend against two fronts, vice three. It's going to be a whacky year. Potential gains: Ser and Bud for me. Probable pitfalls: Edi suspects something, and bounces me via Tri-Ser, or just arranges a Tyo bounce with Germany, leaving him with two to cover Bud vs me in fall. The board alignment has changed, not-so-subtly...Private message from Russia to Germany:
Hi Pitt Glad to see the Judge is up and running; appreciate your replies! Our "pas des duex" continues with my replies (again, w/asterisks), below.... > MY big concern regarding this topic is that you don't go off in a >nervous tizzy and start punching at shadows that aren't there. Not my style. That's why I raise the issue, express my concerns, and try to talk them out. I prefer to resolve concerns in this manner than to just make observations, jump to potentially inaccurate conclusions, and then "go off in a tizzy". As I am doing with you, I hope you assume that my willingness to broach these subjects and discuss them is a positive thing. ** Indeed. Please don't infer that I see you as some "Nervous Nelley," ready to fight if you sense a problem. I don't. Unfortunately, it's the old Security Dilemma issue, where I chuckle at something you see as potentially threatening, and we don't see eye-to-eye on it. But yes, I too prefer calm 'diplomacy' versus agitated concern. (Hence MY 'nervousness' at wondering what some of your units--Kie and Den, for example--are up to. > Well, Turkey looks to be a pretty easy wrap for you and Austria, so I'd expect that both of you are beginning to look for other options. Italy is certainly a possibility for Austria (a strong one from the looks of the things). I don't have a clear sense of where you will go next, though. That *doesn't* mean that I assume that you are thinking of heading my direction but I don't want to assume you're not either. ** Granted. But the shoe fits my foot, too. As I said above, I have *NO* clear indications of what you're doing, other than nebulous ideas vs France. As with your statement, this 'doesn't' mean I fear an attack on me, but it doesn't go too far in reassuring me, either. We're mirror-imaging here, methinks. >C'mon...The prime A/R directive is "kill Tukey." After that >(late 1903), who can say what Edi has up his sleeve? Heck, you guys >could already have an A/G, for all I know... True. However, given my rather extended involvement in France at present, I think you'd have to agree that AG would be mostly beneficial to Austria at this point. I hope you think I'm at least skilled enough to not enter an alliance with a pro like Edi without unless I can be darn sure of receiving significant gains and not giving him the upper hand right from the get go. ** That goes without saying. I'm learning first-hand what it means to 'ride the tiger" with a master in Austria, who stands to gain more initially than I. I don't worry too much yet, as Italy does present a more lucrative target in 1903, once Turkey dies. Still, one never knows with Edi...or with a tournament winner such as yourself. >If you're concerned, then let's set up a bounce and/or DMZs, right now. >Me hit Den while you hit Swe. Or we both sail for Bal, or both Hold. >Whatever turns you on. I have no desire for aggression, but if your >concern runs high, then let me help ameliorate it. I appreciate the offer but I don't to get to that point if I can help it. As long as those units can be used for other, more productive purposes, for example NTH and Nwy, mutual bounces just to allay minor concerns are a criminal waste. ** What exactly are you saying here? You have potential doubts about my intentions, but you don't see a bounce as necessary? And you consider a bounce as a waste because there are more "productive" uses for them? If so, what are these uses? If I read this right, the "productive purposes" are (a) I go to Nwy and (b) you go to Nth? Am I reading this right? If so, then can I -- or can I not -- expect you to sail for Nth this turn? I would _hope_ this isn't a time to be evasive, Pitt. MUCH of what I do with sweden depends on your reply here (i.e., I either hold or I go to Nwy). Openness can only help solidify the RG friendship. I do see how you could believe that I'm evading the issue, as well, however. It's a "chicken or the egg" issue. I'm waiting for you to make a serious commitment to go after England, you're waiting me for to do eth same. Neither of us wants to get out in front on this issue. ** Again, I feel that I *have* made a serious commitment to go after England!! Taking Nwy when he expects it to be open is a sure sign of belligerence, and, if anything, gives YOU more leeway in the North, by throwing him more to your camp than mine. **The plan I mentioned WOULD work, Pitt. England is NOT using Eng to support BEL. He's using it to bounce France from Por-Mid, in order to ensure he (Eng) can get Iri-Mid in fall--again, supported by Eng. I don't buy your "concern" over lack of success in BEL. I think you expect Eng help to Paris, when in reality the EI are just biding their time. OK, let me take those items. You did suggest it but I responded by saying that I was concerned about our ability to acheive the entire plan successfully without another Russian unit (preferable a fleet) in STP. ** What exactly IS 'the entire plan?' Why can't we grab Nwy and Nth and prepare for 1903 convoys? Is a second fleet StP necessary? No, it's not. You elected not to do that, I presume, since you didn't want to tip your hand to England. I can easily accept that but it then means that I take all the risks. * Untrue. As I said, taking Nwy when Eng fully expects me to leave it alone is tantamount to war. I make the aggressive move to NTH. I make the attack on BEL (which probably fails, by the way, since England almost certainly uses ENG to support BEL just in case). ** Again, untrue. BEL would be yours. And, if you elect to opt out and see what happens, you can hold SWE in the spring and still take NWY in the fall. ** Strike three. I cannot take Nwy in fall if I hold in Sweden and "opt out." By then, England bounces me over Nwy because he is in Edi (not Nth!). I guess that's my frustration here. You--quite logically and understandably--don't want to bite the hand you think will (potentially) "feed" you in France. Yet he can support you there in spring--the same spring that you're bouncing Nth, I'm taking Nwy, and you're in Bel. He is not going to Nth and supporting Bel. Period. The moves would work, Pitt. You'd get paris (if your diplomacy works) AND Bel AND a bounce in Nth AND an active Russian ally. I guess there's not enough "ands" in here, eh? See what I mean? From my perspective, we're both afraid of making the first move becuase the other has an opt out strategy. ** It would appear to be the case!!! I did answer it but the judge ate it. I said that this was exactly what I wanted you to do and that I would in no way molest SWE. I didn't specify what DEN would do but I'm open to suggestions. ** You want a suggestion? How about Den-Nth?!!!?? :>) I mean, honestly, what other options are there? War vs me by going to Bal or Swe? Why? What about a Hold in Den? Isn't that a "criminal waste" you're so dead set against? I mean, you tell me, Pitt. What do YOU see as a viable option for Den? >After all, if you're worried about an E/I...and if the E/I's goal is to >lure you deeper into France with empty promises of support (to Par and >elsewhere)..then I would think you'd want a firm Russian ally Yes! Exactly! ** So why can't we agree on a strike vs a common enemy now, to reduce him and possibly cripple him? It's not that I don't believe it. It's that I'm concerned about our present difficulty in finding a way to build on the "no threat" phase and get to the the "active allies" phase. I'm still trying, though. ** In all honesty, so am I. It's frustrating, because I see things differently than you (naturally). It's just a shame that we have to waste the spring turn when we could kick some serious butt. Hopefully you'll come around when presented the evidence by EI. Until then, I remain The Friendly, and Alliance-Seeking, Tsar FazPrivate message from Russia to Italy:
Hi Cal naturally, the last e-mail I sent was The Big Lie. Just to let you know, I'm still a "go" for the attack on Edi. I've also done (what I HOPE to be) some MAJOR shifts in the board polarity other countries, also. I don't want to spoil the surprise until deadline, but suffice it to say 1) I haven't told anyone (not even F) of the "hit Edi" mode, per our agreement; 2) This plan will ultimately benefit us both, methinks, if it works. Hoping to see good results after tonight! best Tsar FazPrivate message from France to Italy:
I am hoping that we can repair our relationship. I am obviously in a tight spot. If you would let up a bit, I might have a chance. If not, I'm done. I don't see that Italy will gain much from helping Germany and England take out France. You'll simply be left as the next victim. Is it possible that we can restore the truce line? I would be in your debt. FrancePrivate message from England to Italy:
Cal, So, last I heard, Germany sounded willing to get you Mar in the Fall. He didn't say how, so I pointed out to him that by far the best way would be Bur-Gas followed by Gas-Spa, which would guarantee you Mar. (And, of course, would mean that I don't have to support him into Paris in the Spring--if I agreed to do that and then weaseled out, he would certainly not carry through with helping you get Mar.) If you do get Marseilles, that opens things up a lot for next year. Wow, it would really relieve the main problems. I admit that it does seem most likely that it will make more sense to give you Por in '03, then trade it for Par in '04. Of course, we can make the final call when the time comes. Cheers! Gentle King JamiePrivate message from England to Italy:
Wait, one second. >(might be moot if I also get Bal this >turn--we can try bor both! :>) ??? Why would you go to Bal? You'd be letting Pitt take Sweden. (Was it a joke?) Gentle K. J.Private message from England to Italy:
Quads, Same here, more or less. I haven't sent you anything recently for the plain reason that I don't have anything to say. Let me update you on the diplomatic situation. As far as I can tell, my relations with Germany are just perfect from the Quad's perspective--he is happy enough with me and not yet so worried about being attacked from the southeast to prevent him from stringing out a bit into France. My aim is to talk him into pulling enough armies out of his borders to give you easterners a chance at depriving him of Munich (or I suppose Berlin--I don't see how that's supposed to work, but you undoubtedly know what you're doing). Seems fairly promising, though he hasn't told me too much. On the board, I expect to go through the simple motions to nab Norway and penetrate to MAO so as to make sure Italy gets those Med centers in '03, and set up my units to blast away at Germany too. Cheers! Gentle King JamiePrivate message from Russia to Italy:
Hi Guys Seems like we've been "extended" until tonight, so I wanted to send out a last-minute blurb. Hope this finds you all well, and that you receive this (I haven't gotten a Judge comeback copy for days, so if the system is "up," I must be out of its Cyber-loop!) Not much to say, really, other than things seem on track. Turkey and France remain silent -- nothing at all from France, and Hohn hasn't sent anything since he replied to my "sorry about that, version 2" note after the F'01 moves. Germany occasionally writes about his AG fears, and says he's intent on capturing Paris with E help...i.e., "the usual." I'm set for my moves--no deviation from the original Quadripartite Plan. Once we get the spring results, Edi and I can figure out which German center to take, i.e., me to BER, or Edi to MUN (might be moot if I also get Bal this turn--we can try bor both! :>) (I'm still "on for CON", right Edi?) Let me know if you guys have any additional thoughts, ideas, etc Tsar FazPrivate message from Observer to Master:
>[email protected] as Master set the deadline >for game 'ghodstoo' to Thu Feb 27 1997 23:30:00 EST. >Grace period deadline advanced to Thu Apr 10 1997 14:30:00 EST. > Congratulations on your first success ;) As I always say:" If I can do it it means that it's very simple" :) Bye, LucaPrivate message from Italy to Master:
> Message from [email protected] as England to Austria, Russia and Italy in > 'ghodstoo': > Same here, more or less. I haven't sent you anything recently for the plain > reason that I don't have anything to say. That goes for me too. With the judge down, there was little communication with/from Italy. > As far as I can tell, my relations with Germany are just perfect from the > Quad's perspective--he is happy enough with me and not yet so worried about > being attacked from the southeast to prevent him from stringing out a bit > into France. My aim is to talk him into pulling enough armies out of his > borders to give you easterners a chance at depriving him of Munich (or I > suppose Berlin--I don't see how that's supposed to work, but you > undoubtedly know what you're doing). Seems fairly promising, though he > hasn't told me too much. Seems okay to me. > On the board, I expect to go through the simple motions to nab Norway and > penetrate to MAO so as to make sure Italy gets those Med centers in '03, > and set up my units to blast away at Germany too. I'm definitely looking forward to my next build... grin CalPrivate message from Master to Germany:
Pitt, Are you there??? You still don't have your orders in, but did not take advantage of the extra time I gave you to negotiate. Is there a problem here that I can help with (i.e. a general deadline extension while you are out of town or something)? Thanks! JimPrivate message from Italy to Master:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy in 'ghodstoo': > > Hi Cal > naturally, the last e-mail I sent was The Big Lie. Just to let you > know, I'm still a "go" for the attack on Edi. I had that figgered out... :) > I've also done (what I HOPE to be) some MAJOR shifts in the board > polarity other countries, also. I don't want to spoil the surprise > until deadline, but suffice it to say > 1) I haven't told anyone (not even F) of the "hit Edi" mode, per our > agreement; > 2) This plan will ultimately benefit us both, methinks, if it works. Methinx that one of the shifts you pulled was to get France to write to me (without telling him the REAL reason, of course). Well, it worked. He wrote. I won't respond until tomorrow after the results come. I suspect I'll have a LOT more to discuss then... heh heh. > Hoping to see good results after tonight! Yup. :) Cheers CalYes, it's true, extending the deadline did not shake loose Pitt's orders. I have sent Pitt direct mail asking him for them as well. Since we have some Judge rookies here, I feel I should start explaining a few things. First of all, the grace period goes out to sometime in April or somesuch. That does NOT mean that is the true grace period, it does mean that I didn't want to risk "surprise" replacement players. The way the Judge works is that after the grace period expires, the late player is automatically thrown out and ANYONE can sign on to the position as long as they aren't already in the game. There should not be late orders in this game. If you are going to be out of town for all or part of the negotiation time you should be asking me for extensions in advance. Pitt does know this general rule-of-thumb. The Judge enacts "dedication penalties" for these late orders, which primarily affect one's ability to get into future games. Obviously, in a demo game such as this one, it is relatively important that everyone be actively playing. Lastly, on the point of continuing to negotiate after the deadline has expired, this is generally frowned upon. The judge does permit it though. Again, just as obviously, having a player wait until after the deadline to finish negotiating is not fair to the rest of the players. Still, in the same light as the way I adjudicate postal games, I don't feel it is out of bounds, given the "no NMR" style of play. Nevertheless, be aware if you decide to negotiate after the deadline that you may change your orders up until the time the turn is adjudicated, BUT any "set waits" that you have set are not valid (i.e. they won't prevent the turn from processing as soon as orders are received from everyone) and the turn will process as soon as it receives that last set of moves, not necessarily after all mail has been processed from the queue. I think the implications of that should be clear to everyone. So please, do not hesitate to ask me for extensions if you need them, but ask in advance. Thanks, JimI have called Pitt on Saturday morning. Answering machine at home and left a message at work. Will keep pestering him. EdiNot to further add to the muddle of "Is the Kaiser on-line or not," or = "Are you using the correct alias," etc, but: has anyone tried = phone-calling Pitt and asking him what's up? Seems to me we could spare = everyone the soap opera saga if someone with his number gave him a = ring.... Ma Bell Fassio Tsar of All Russias, Defender of the Faith All-Around Nice GuyPrivate message from Italy to Master:
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Master in 'ghodstoo': > > I received "updates" from most of you, but those of you who haven't > given them to me, would you please pass them along? Just a few sentences > is fine. Sorry I've been lackadaisacal about this, but I'll try to do this on a more "faithful" basis. First impressions of the players: A- Edi Birsan. Ahh, the famed Bir-Sauron. I've known Edi for a fairly long time. We met in the 70s at a DipCon somewhere (Baltimore?) and I have a great respect for him, both as a person and as a player. Drawing Italy to his Austria could be very interesting or very dangerous. E- James Dreier. Don't know him at all previously, but he is a frequent poster on rec.games.diplomacy. As I will come to learn in this 1901, he is a very frequent letter writer with maybe a little too much emphasis on the tactical side of the game. Started discussing "stalemate lines" very soon. Sounds like a typical e-mail Dipper from my limited e-Dip experience. F- John Barkdull. I haven't even heard John's name before, even on r.g.d. Maybe I wasn't paying attention. He turns out to have what seems like little interest in communicating with me, other than a very short initial letter requesting a truce line. G- Pitt Crandlemire. I've heard of Pitt thru r.g.d. and the talk is that he is a very good player. The only name I've heard spoken with more respect is probably Dan Shoham. Pitt's letter, while infrequent and not very punctual (I assume real life takes precedence over e-Dip; silly man) are well-written and show a good grasp of the game with possibly an over-developed sense of paranoia (something I will have to develop further playing a country next to Edi...) I- Cal White. What the hell am *I* doing in an invitational Diplomacy game? I admit I've won a couple of Canadian Championships, but my "rep" as a player is not very well known outside of the Great White North. I guess knowing how to publish a postal Dipzine gets your name well enough known to be able to fake it... heh heh. R- Mark Fassio. Ah, the Faz... I've met Mark (Chapel Hill for DipCon? Or was it one of Brad Wilson's Vertigo Games events?) and he is a likeable fellow. In fact, he's likeable enough to have to watch out for... . I don't know his postal Dip gaming rep very well, but what I do know of it indicates that he has had some success. T- Hohn Cho. Someone else I have met. I thought it was either here in Toronto when Doug Acheson and I hosted Dipcon or in Kansas City, but Hohn tells me it was Chapel Hill, NC. Ah well, the memory is the first to go, they say. Don't know Hohn very well, but I am aware he has made quite a name for himself in FTF play, winning a couple of Dipcons. I will respect ANYBODY who can do THAT. Spring 1901 The usual round of blather from everyone until Edi proposed what Mark comes to call the Quadripartite Coalition. I insist that it be changed to the Quadripartite Continuum. Star Trek: TNG fans will understand why. Edi's plan is for me to attack France, Mark and Edi to hit Turkey, and England to hit France with Germany's help. Then in about 1902 or so, Edi and Russia will then hit Germany who has hopefully become extended into France. Quite an innovative plan covering the whole board. Actually, the real beauty, as Mark and I quickly discuss is that, if it works, everyone ELSE will have done Edi's dirty work and left him with a crippled Turkey, an Italian so far west as to be easy pickings and ditto for Russia. Also, Edi will not have had to make the first moves against ANY opponent. This keeps his options open should he se an opportunity for the Big Stab. Mark and I agree to go along with the plan while secretly deciding to attack Edi at the first possible moment. Normally, I would not agree to ANY plan that sees my Italy attack France but I decide, this IS a demo game after all. Let's try something unusual. I don't fear an '01 attack from Edi because, if his plan works, he has much more to gain by following it than by stabbing me so early. Private message from Italy to Master:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo': > > I am hoping that we can repair our relationship. I am obviously in a tight > spot. If you would let up a bit, I might have a chance. If not, I'm done. > I don't see that Italy will gain much from helping Germany and England > take out France. You'll simply be left as the next victim. > > Is it possible that we can restore the truce line? I would be in your > debt. While I don't like to negotiate during a grace period, I will say that I think we will have more to talk about after this turn comes out. (whenever THAT is going to be...) Cal >This explains your mail bouncing. syncoM should be syncoN. >You've been communicating with the ether. :-) I probably have been using syncoN. I've been using an alias that has worked fine in the past. The alias is at home and I am at work so I can't check. The alias stopped working at the same time his moves became late in this game, which is why I think he has lost access. But I'll check my alias when I get home. Charlie Eldred> Manus, are you using [email protected], Pitt's listed address for this > game? I am and all my mail is bouncing. > This explains your mail bouncing. syncoM should be syncoN. You've been communicating with the ether. :-) [I think (imagine, believe) he's in this game as syncoN (which is correct)] ManusManus, are you using [email protected], Pitt's listed address for this game? I am and all my mail is bouncing. Charlie Eldred> I am playing an off-judge game with Pitt and my mail to him has been > bouncing back to me for several days. I think he's lost access. > I've been mailing Pitt regularly about many things, multiple times per day, and although I haven't heard from him since Tuesday, none of my mail has bounced. I know he's very busy preparing for WDC VII, but to the best of my knowledge, he is still reachable. Charlie, I'm sure he'll be concerned to learn that your mail to him is bouncing. ManusI am playing an off-judge game with Pitt and my mail to him has been bouncing back to me for several days. I think he's lost access. Charlie Eldred> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Observer in 'ghodstoo': > > > Manus, are you using [email protected], Pitt's listed address for this > > game? I am and all my mail is bouncing. > > > This explains your mail bouncing. syncoM should be syncoN. > You've been communicating with the ether. :-) > > [I think (imagine, believe) he's in this game as syncoN (which is correct)] > > Manus > Pitt's address (in this game and otherwise) indeed is [email protected] That address is working fine and that is not the reason for the delay. I thank Edi for making the phone calling attempt. That was my next step after this logon to check what was up. Given that, I will not add to the messages. Pitt has been telling me that he is doing a lot of travelling lately, as have I and others of you in the game. As I cannot help but reiterate, it is YOUR responsibility to let me know when you are unavailable. I will adjust the deadlines accordingly and we will go on. I hope this minor oversight on that score was merely the result of the Judge problems. I apologize for my less than prompt responses to everything this week, but in general I will NOT hold deadlines for MY travel, but will only inform you of my unavailability. I am in town for the next couple of weeks. I hope we will be back on track momentarily (in the sense of E-space time). JimUPDATE, UPDATE, Pitt has just contacted me. He actually has been VERY ill with food poisoning all week. I (as I'm sure all of you do as well) wish him the very best in completing his recovery. I know how such things can be and they don't feel very much like Dipping at all. As I suspected might be the case, Pitt has asked for reopening of negotiating time to finish what he had begun before he became ill. As you can imagine, his E-mail backlog is immense. Nevertheless, you might wish to drop him a new "update" note. I am moving the deadline to Monday. If all negotiating is complete before then and the turn processes, fine, but I think I need to set it that far ahead. JimPrivate message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt, I'm sorry to hear about your food poisoning! Best wishes for your speedy recovery. Regarding Dip, I don't believe we have a whole lot to coordinate right now, but of course if there's anything I can offer or say to get you to attack Russia, consider it offered or said. ;) Take care, HohnPrivate message from Germany to Master:
Jim, I'm writing to let you know what's going on with me. I haven't read any of my pending email yet but I;'m sure I'm very late in this game. Late Tuesday evening I became violently ill with what turned out to be a sever case of food poisoining and I have been bedridden until today. I'm feeling better but I'm still very weak and running a low grade fever. I hop eto be able to get back in eth swing by tomorrow. I'm not yet ready to send in my orders though becuase I needed to hear back from a couple of players. Can you extend the deadline until Sunday and explain to everybody where I am and that I'll be in touch? Thanks. PittPrivate message from Observer to Master:
Master, I am playing in an off-judge game with Pitt and all my mail has been bouncing back to me. I think he is having access problems. You might want to call him. Charlie EldredPrivate message from Italy to Master:
Hi Pitt! Sorry to hear about your recent illness. I've had that happen to me and it is an awful experience. Hopefully, you're feeling better now. Don't know as we have much to talk about until after the next moves, but we'll certainly talk then. Take care (and stay out of McDonalds!!!)Cal Private message from Master to Russia:
Mark, I guess you have part of the answer to your question. I really would prefer it if you asked further questions along that line in broadcast form. I do intend to "control" game players in this game, which is not the usual Judge style. I'm sure you never would want "just anyone" dropped into this game. JimPrivate message from Germany to Italy:
>Hi Pitt! Sorry to hear about your recent illness. I've had that happen >to me and it is an awful experience. Hopefully, you're feeling better >now. Thanks, Cal. >Don't know as we have much to talk about until after the next >moves, but we'll certainly talk then. You bet. Good luck in the meantime. >Take care (and stay out of McDonalds!!!)Heh...actually, it was a rather upscale restaurant where I took a client for lunch. Fortunately, she had a Ceasar's salad while I had the grilled mahi-mahi special. Never again. -Pitt Private message from Germany to Turkey:
>I'm sorry to hear about your food poisoning! Best wishes for your >speedy recovery. Thanks, Hohn. >Regarding Dip, I don't believe we have a whole lot to coordinate right >now, but of course if there's anything I can offer or say to get you >to attack Russia, consider it offered or said. ;) Heh...I'll keep it in mind. -PittPrivate message from Master to Russia:
Mark, I guess you have part of the answer to your question. I really = would prefer it if you asked further questions along that line in broadcast = form. I do intend to "control" game players in this game, which is not the = usual Judge style. I'm sure you never would want "just anyone" dropped into this game. JimPrivate message from Germany to Russia:
>And, most importantly, THANK YOU for doing this! We're going to nail E >and others in this thing!! I'm counting on it, Faz. I'm sure my illness has given you more than adequate time to get the SWE-NWY order in, so as soon as I get mine in, we should be home free. Thanks for working on this with me. -PittPrivate message from Germany to France:
>Pitt, did you receive my message of yesterday? It was in regard to the >tactics for the upcoming turn. I asked why par-gas rather than spa-gas. Yes I did, John. I replied saying that your plan was more suitable. Did you get my response? Are we still on track with the FG plan? -PittFolks, I'm writing to let you know what's been going on with me. Late Tuesday evening I became violently ill with what turned out to be a severe case of food poisoning and I was bedridden until yesterday. I'm feeling better but I'm still very weak and running a low grade fever. I was well enough to see my doctor today and he has given me drugs to take down the fever and remove the remainder of the toxins from my system. I know I'm horribly behind but I'm not yet ready to send in my orders. I have just now finished reviewing the mountain of pending email I had and I'm about to send off a few responses. I should be ready with orders by tomorrow. I sent a brief message similar to this one to Jim yesterday asking him to extend the deadline until Sunday and explain to everybody what was up but it doesn't appear that he saw it. So, anyway, that's the scoop. I'll get back on track ASAP. Thanks for your patience and understanding. -Pitt P.S. Edi, you must have called while I was at the doctor or sleeping (been doing a lot of that). Anyway, I got the message and I'll call you later.Private message from Germany to Master:
Jim, FYI, my orders are in. I have set wait, though, because I haven't yet heard back from France or Russia. Given my absence, I need to make sure that they are still comfortable with the plans we discussed. As soon as I hear from them, I'll take off the set wait or, if I don't hear from them by COB tomorrow, I'll have time to reconsider before the turn processes. -PittPrivate message from Master to Germany:
> > Message from [email protected] as Germany to Master in 'ghodstoo': > > Jim, > > FYI, my orders are in. I have set wait, though, because I haven't yet > heard back from France or Russia. Given my absence, I need to make sure > that they are still comfortable with the plans we discussed. As soon as I > hear from them, I'll take off the set wait or, if I don't hear from them by > COB tomorrow, I'll have time to reconsider before the turn processes. > > -Pitt > Thanks for the update, Pitt. Are you asking for my advice or asking a question, or are you just informing me what you are doing? Obviously, if you are waiting for some input from particular players, you may wish to inform them of this fact. In any case, the turn won't process until all set waits are off. JimPrivate message from France to Germany:
>Are we still on track with the FG plan? Everything is go from my end. Hope you are feeling well soon. JohnHi everyone! Here's my fourth attempt at sending something out; cross = your fingers and say a novena for me. (Actually, now that Judge Dave = weighed in along with Jim, I think the problem's been solved. In the = military we call it...ahem..."operator error.") Ref the phone issue: I go along with Hohn, my erstwhile neighbor. I'm = not against phone calls (as an old PBM'er, I like the occasional call, = free from prying eyse, computer hackers, etc). If anyone wants to reach = me, you can try (914) 446-1308 after 1700 (5 p.m.) WORST time to call = is 6:45 - 8:15 p.m. (kids with baths, bedtimes, etc). Once paper = grading starts, I'll be up at all sorts of strange hours. =20 Emergency/deadline calls: (914) 938-3198, after 1000. As in Hohn's case, work and family (and this $#!@%^&*&^ computer = syntax!) has slowed my initial mail; be patient, please.... =20 I understand from Jim that the deadline is actually the first week of = Feb (the 6th?) as opposed to the 31st? Yes? No? Faz> > Broadcast message from [email protected] as Turkey in 'ghodstoo': > > Hi all, > > Whoops, sorry about the password mixup. I've changed mine so that > these sorts of things hopefully won't happen again. > In case anyone else needs to do that: signon pghodstoo oldpass set password newpassSince everyone now has file orders in, the wait is until the deadline this evening. The results for Spring will follow shortly. The turn would process now, except that a number of SET WAIT's are on (some of them have been there since very early in the turn). Thus I wanted to take the opportunity to remind you (or inform those of you who didn't know) that "set nowait" is the proper command (after signing on to the game) to clear the set wait. Otherwise, the game will not process until the official deadline. I am not implying (certainly true at this point when you would only gain a few hours) that anyone should bother doing so now. I merely note that it is what prevents the processing at the present instant. It also is of course true that anyone may feel free to change their orders this evening. That almost goes without saying. I hope I am helping both the rookies and veterans at Judge play feel comfortable about asking me anything at all about how something in the game works. Let's see those Spring results.... JimPrivate message from Germany to France:
>>Are we still on track with the FG plan? > >Everything is go from my end. Great! Good luck. -PittPrivate message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Turkey and Italy in > 'ghodstoo': > > Dear Cal and Hohn > I'm taking the step of sending a "common letter" with what I perceive to > be mutual interests. I'll send private letters about each sector of the > front, if it makes you all comfortable, a little later. But for now I > wanted to express my thoughts about the situation. > > Hohn: Yes, I supported Edi to BUL. My goal was to see your unit get > annihilated (I'll be up-front about that part), but ONLY in the context > of luring Edi out of SER and allowing me to slide in behind it. I think > you can see that I really intended no further harm to you--else I > would've supported to ARM (as Edi no doubt suggested and expected!). > That would've bounced you, kept us fighting with mistrust, and allowed > Edi to complete his conquest not just of BUL, but of RUM. I was hoping > for better tactical position, and then support you back to BUL and > beyond, as an ally. I just couldn't "let on" my plans unless Edi found > out--that's why I never called you when I said I would. Of course, you > and Edi were on the phones, and you took "the best offer" at the time. > Understandable. For what it's worth, Hohn, I can back this up. Edi has always been the person I've been most worried about in this game, so when Mark came up with this plan, I voted to go along with it. Of course, the fact that I was being stone walled against France didn't hurt my decision making process either... > Cal: Your moves are a lifesaver. Now we have pressure from > behind--pressure Edi can't ignore if he values GRE and TRI. Maybe the > three of us, in conjunction, can crush the Archduke and gain from it > all. I'm willing to go along with this, of course. Naturally, the big question is, what happens after Edi is gone? I suspect this question is foremost in Hohn's mind too... > My goals are simple. I want a Balkan center, be it the recovery of RUM, > or support into somewhere else. And I want a Turko-Russian peace, Hohn, > much as you've been saying since 1901. I did you wrong in that year, > and intended to make it up this year by the hit on Edi. You just didn't > anticipate it, so I guess "we're even." I'm hoping we can wipe the > slate clean and start as a good alliance, one dedicated to getting BUL > back for you, and RUM for me. As it stands now, Edi goes +1 (so does T, > understandably), and--if he's allied with Germany--then the two of them > become the "big gainers" this turn, to all our detriments. If Russia goes down quickly, it will leave Germany as the largest power on the board. Right now, he faces a crippled England and a small, but grateful France. The speed at which things are likely to progress means that he will be able to turn east quickly enough to cross the middle of the board so that A/T would be too late to stop him. I'd just as soon avoid this as it probably see my role in the game as being to plug up the Med against puppet France. Boring. > I hope you guys see things the same as I, and that we can come up with > some coherent plans for the fall. I WILL BE DOING SUPPORTS OF MY UNITS > THIS TURN, in the event of perfidy, but I will be willing to support any > and all efforts elsewhere. Hohn, I can't see you being terribly sanguine about that Austrian fleet in the Aegean. Comments? CalPrivate message from England to France:
Touche! Gentle King JamiePrivate message from England to Germany:
Gosh. Your food poisoning has left *me* with an upset stomach. Hm, you appear to be in a pretty good position. And to all appearances, Edi has manipulated all of my erstwhile allies while I was sleeping. I wonder whether you can get a big chunk out of me before he finds he needs something for all of those armies to do. I don't think you can. We shall see! Happy sails! Gentle King JamiePrivate message from England to Italy:
ooooh! I've been stabbed! :-) Ok, well, looks like I'm alone up here. Good luck getting that next center of yours. Gentle King JamiePrivate message from England to Russia:
Hm. I think you've made a mistake. In me you had an ally come what may. You've sold that asset, and now you've got an awful lot of enemies. Good luck, Tsar Faz! Gentle King JamiePrivate message from Russia to France:
Hi John! Well, as I mentioned last letter, the potential for change did indeed occur! I got Italy to head east (for self-serving, greedy reasons, true, but a moot point to you, right?), Germany turned north vs E as opposed to heading toward you, and the Johnny Bull will probably go -1 this turn. Of course, future success still depends on YOU, but I see you as the new Kingmaker over there... I think it's safe to assume that the Tsar (that's me) would love to see FI peace, so I can have an ally help me crush the AT behemoth. That gives you the ol' "coin toss" as to who you want to deal with up north. I figure Germany will either convoy to YOR this turn, or use his armies to take BEL (or both)! (Or he could get greedy and use two on PAR, maybe even reconciling with England, as a downer.) It's not for me to proffer advice, but hey, talk is cheap, so what the heck.... If you're unsure of your friends (or foes), I'd go Mar-Bur, Gas S Par, Par S Mar-Bur, and Por-Mao. If you're in cahoots with G, you guys could try and smash BRE with three (Gas, Par and Pic), while you go Por-Mao. That probably bounces Iri and kills BRE. (And if he uses both fleets for Mao, then he goes -1 for sure from BRE, maybe -2 if BEL falls...meaning he will no doubt remove the F Mid anyway!) If you decide Germany is a growing ogre, then see if Jamie will like to strike back at his tormentor(s) and try: Bre-Pic (Par S), Gas-Bre, Mar-Bur, Eng-Lon, Iri-Eng, and Nwg-Edi. This keeps Germany completely out of your country, forces a successful convoy (only) of Eng (if he tries it), and covers the majority of your mutual dangers. Anyway, John, that's free (useless?) advice from a beleagured Tsar. I hope you liked my diplomatic efforts last turn in trying to preserve the French Republic. Any ideas or suggestions you can do to help me (to include helping wean Turkey from Austria) would be of GREAT help! Tsar FazPrivate message from Russia to England:
GKJ, Don't be too judgmental of me, please. Yes, I leapt into Nwy, but I did so for exactly the (self-fulfilling?) reasons that transpired down south--as insurance against Austrian perfidy. I was unsure of what was happening with Austria, Germany was looming large as a potential ally of Edi (and I still have unease that they're in collusion). And, in the short-term, I saw the ability to "stay even" as preferable to losing one...or to allowing any unknown EG collusion to grow. I mean, hey, anything can happen. I *didn't* want to see the QC crash and burn, Jamie. But with Italy overly worried about Edi, I saw the chance to lower the boom on Edi as a team in 1902. Surely you can't fault me for that? As for the Kaiser: The German hit on you is not as dangerous as it could've been--after all, he could've taken BEL this turn. of course, now he has convoy potential as well as seizing BEL. I think nows the time to get France to make a radical "conversion" to the English side, and the whole focus will once again shift. Small recompense for you, I realize, but you're still recoverable. IF I can wean Hohn from Edi, I'll consider leaving Nwy in your gentle care. But right now, it's "every center counts," and I'm in a bind from Turkey and Austria. Any help you can use to gain Hohn to 'our side' will only aid in the transfer of Nwy...."believe it or not..." Tsar FazPrivate message from Russia to Italy:
Dear Cal and Hohn I'm taking the step of sending a "common letter" with what I perceive to be mutual interests. I'll send private letters about each sector of the front, if it makes you all comfortable, a little later. But for now I wanted to express my thoughts about the situation. Hohn: Yes, I supported Edi to BUL. My goal was to see your unit get annihilated (I'll be up-front about that part), but ONLY in the context of luring Edi out of SER and allowing me to slide in behind it. I think you can see that I really intended no further harm to you--else I would've supported to ARM (as Edi no doubt suggested and expected!). That would've bounced you, kept us fighting with mistrust, and allowed Edi to complete his conquest not just of BUL, but of RUM. I was hoping for better tactical position, and then support you back to BUL and beyond, as an ally. I just couldn't "let on" my plans unless Edi found out--that's why I never called you when I said I would. Of course, you and Edi were on the phones, and you took "the best offer" at the time. Understandable. Cal: Your moves are a lifesaver. Now we have pressure from behind--pressure Edi can't ignore if he values GRE and TRI. Maybe the three of us, in comjunction, can crush the Archduke and gain from it all. My goals are simple. I want a Balkan center, be it the recovery of RUM, or support into somewhere else. And I want a Turko-Russian peace, Hohn, much as you've been saying since 1901. I did you wrong in that year, and intended to make it up this year by the hit on Edi. You just didn't anticipate it, so I guess "we're even." I'm hoping we can wipe the slate clean and start as a good alliance, one dedicated to getting BUL back for you, and RUM for me. As it stands now, Edi goes +1 (so does T, understandably), and--if he's allied with Germany--then the two of them become the "big gainers" this turn, to all our detriments. I hope you guys see things the same as I, and that we can come up with some coherent plans for the fall. I WILL BE DOING SUPPORTS OF MY UNITS THIS TURN, in the event of perfidy, but I will be willing to support any and all efforts elsewhere. What say you both? Tsar Faz Down But Not Out[ The Zine | Online Resources | Showcase | Email | Postal | Face to Face ]
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Last updated on Sun, Feb 15, 1998.