| Press for Spring of 1906 in ghodstoo |
Movement
Private message from Germany to England:
Sorry, I'm late folks. I've been away for the weekend but I thought the
deadline wasn't until 2330 tonight. I'm sending in my build now. I
apologize to those of you who tried to contact me that I wasn't able to
discuss this with you before sending in orders but I don't think that it
makes much difference. My build is pretty obvious.
-Pitt
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
The build of A BER as well as the moves you performed last season
obviously trouble me.
I'm moving to defend myself this turn. I hope you will not initiate
war, but I am not holding my breath.
Your moves of course force me to continue to support Edi. Which is in
some ways a pity, since I think the two of us could work well together
should we both decide to move against our principal allies.
But it's up to you.
Anyway,
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Russia:
Mark,
> While (obviously) less-than-thrilled over your continued screw-over of
> my position, I'm hoping that you see the obvious weakening of your
> front-positioned ally. Edi's removal of WAR, coupled with your build of
> CON, offers interesting possibilities. And, played right (as you've
> been doing to date), you may even convince France of the possibilities
> of stabbing Italy (or you and France hitting Germany later).
> I'm standing by Italy, which means against AT. Germany will take my
> last center, so this will indeed be my last fling.
Take care, Mark. Maybe you can live on for a little while, although I
certainly don't have much to say in that matter any more.
> Good hunting. I hope you realize that CON is better off in the Balkans,
> vice a useless attempt at convoying to APU.
We'll see. ;)
Hohn
Testing. I'm hoping the judge is up now?
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
Well, although we've had little to discuss directly earlier, I think
we're certainly reaching a point where we might want to consider
cooperation, or at least the prospects of such.
What would it take for you to stab Germany? No reasonable proposals
rejected, etc. etc.
Let me know.
Thanks,
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Message from [email protected] as Italy to Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
>
> > I'll build no more fleets, ever. In fact, if we can arrange the
> > dislodgement of one of my fleets some time in the not-too-distant
> > future, I'll disband that as well. I'll limit my fleets to one
> > in EAS, one in AEG, and one in BLA (with an army in GRE).
>
> This sounds accceptable. If you agree, I can probably have that
> fleet in Ionian popped this Spring turn. More on this in a bit...
I'd rather not, simply because it _is_ a spring turn. I'd be happy to
take it as a disband in any fall turn. Or perhaps in a spring turn
next year or the year after, after we've established a working
baseline of trust.
> > Right after we dice up Edi, we should demilitarize the area and
> > press northward. This will further reduce the possibility of a
> > stab between us. The kicker, IMO, is to position ourselves well
> > enough so that Germany runs into a wall, and is encouraged to
> > stab France.
>
> Agreed. In fact, we should start propagandizing both Pitt AND John
> right after this next turn; Pitt we try to sell on the idea of
> taking out France so as to get a three way result without a lot
> of hassle. He's an e-mail player at heart, so I bet he goes for it.
Consider it done.
> With John, we try to plant the seeds of distrust and make it appear
> to him that I cannot be attacked. Once you attack Edi, I'll tell
> him that he and I have a golden opportunity to take both Pitt and
> you out. Combine that with a strong effort on my part to look
> invulnerable and we may talk him into attacking Pitt. Then you and
> I can make a push west. (Um, heh heh, note that my telling John
> it's a perfect time to attack YOU will definitely be propaganda;
> as I said, I don't trust him for the reasons I outlined in my last
> note. There's something about an honest Dip player I can't deal
> with... laff)
Heh.
Like I said, I think you've played a better game than John so far, and
I think this upcoming interchange will bear that out even more.
Pitt concerns me much more than John right now.
> > one turn's dishonesty from a few years ago :) ). You've also
> > played a better game, IMO.
>
> Thanks for the compliment, although I think my blind luck has made
> up for some bad strategic choices this game.
Well, luck certainly always helps, but I'm thinking that most luck can
be eliminated by use of sound tactics and psychology.
> I agree with you that a normal demo game will probably end in a
> three-way. Too much talent (read cut-throatedness) to play to a
> perfect 7-way Calhamerian draw, but also too much awareness of
> what's going on on the board to let one power get a large lead.
Yup.
> In THIS game though, I see no reason to not try to buck the odds.
> IF we can get F/G fighting or at least suspicious of each other,
> we can at least try for a two-way. If there's going to be a
> three-way, let's at least make sure it's a true stalemated draw,
> okay?
That's fine with me. It is a demo game, after all.
> Basically, what I've outlined above probably offers us the best
> bet for taking either/both F/G out of the final results. Just a
> thought: I'd prefer to see an "all postal player" victory... :)
Noted. ;)
> > I haven't looked at the board carefully yet, but that sounds
> > reasonable so far.
>
> We'll look at it again after we see Edi's removal.
What do you think of the tactical situation so far? As I promised, I
did build A CON, btw.
> > I'd like to stress the importance of secrecy for now, so that Edi
> > doesn't get wind of our working together. If he doesn't suspect
> > me (as he shouldn't, since we've been working together so well
> > this game), I should be able to give you completely accurate
> > information as to his movements this turn. But that will only
> > work if he doesn't suspect anything.
>
> Agreed, but he hasn't written me yet.
I think he has to be worried a bit. He's too good a player not to
realize that he's in a precarious position. But I'm doing my best to
allay his fears.
> > I have told him that I'd be sending you a note this turn trying
> > to convince you to build an army, but he doesn't know the extent
> > or depth of our communications and planning. If you have to tell
> > him anything, maybe just tell him that I've been trying to get
> > you to build an army.
>
> I will build that army and that will probably be the last one I
> build (unless one is need for a possible French campaign, at which
> time I'd let you know in advance).
Thank you. We are well set, I think.
> > Other than that, any other thoughts?
>
> That's about it for now. I'll be writing again this weekend as I
> have an unexpectedly free couple of days. I was supposed to "test-
> drive" a canoe to see if I will be buying it, but I didn't get a
> chance to pick it up. Oh well, next weekend... :)
Did you get it?
It's been hectic for me as well lately; sorry for my silence.
Hohn
Since the Judge has been a little bit up, a little bit down,
I have been asked to extend the deadline to Wednesday. I have
acceded to the request.
Thank you very much,
Jim
Private message from France to Italy:
I finally found that minute I was looking for. I've started summer
teaching, and it seems I'm always in class or preparing for the next one.
I think we've fairly well arranged everything for the next round. If
you've heard any interesting stories, clue me in. I hear a few lies from
the others every now and again, but nothing of much interest. Edi's
stopped calling for some reason. I can't figure it out.
John, France
Private message from France to Germany:
Pitt, the real world does intervene now and again. I'll be in the office
tomorrow, so I can check email then.
Best,
John
Private message from Germany to France:
John,
>Pitt, are you still there?
Yes (barely it seems).
I have a major new account starting tomorrow morning and I've been putting
in 14+ hour days all week, including today. No time for anything else so
far. However, I will have a few moments tomorrow afternoon to sit down and
make some plans and respond to you in more detail. Please bear with me
until then.
-Pitt
Private message from France to Germany:
Pitt, are you still there? If you recall, I had asked you about A Tyrolia.
Seems to me that unit occupies a rather strategic place on the map. At
least let me know if you have no need for its services.
John
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Hi Cal
Just a short note, as I'm still scheduling transportation for a variety
of knuckleheads coming to our early June conference. Lazy b**tards
can't do it themselves, it seems. (Me? Sullen? Nah...)
Comments to the comments...
>> Edi's press to me has "mysteriously" fallen silent (cackle). Well, he
>> started it...
>
>I haven't heard from him either, but I bet he's working furiously on the
>REST of the board...
** Oh, I'm sure of it, but I don't know who will listen to him. You and
I know his true colors, Hohn is either already in bed with him, or about
to do him in; and if Pitt listens to him, he can expect a war in his
West, I'll wager, as well as uncertainty about an AT 'spoofing' to catch
him off guard and bust up the F/G. France may be a player in Edi's
dealings, i.e., stabbing you, but I somehow doubt it. Would be nice to
hear from some people, however, to confirm or deny...e-mail among
players is absolutely _hideous_ for the caliber of the so-called "ghods"
playing here. England *used* to be the most frequent writer, and even
Turkey would spar with me before he got too busy and lock-step with Edi.
'Tis only you now...
>> Do you still require support for Vie? if not, I'm heading east, into
>> the sun. I have two turns to get GAL and threaten AT even now. (FG are
>> too tight for any western options, and I can't retake any northern
>> centers, obviously--so I'm committed to either continuing support for
>> you, or heading east.) let me know what you want done.
>
>I haven't looked at the board closely yet and I'm waiting for some
>replies, but I'll let you know what's up. I'd love to get you a centre
>and keep you going for a while. I figure you've played a better game
>than England so you should outlast him...
** I'd love to get a center (or two!) myself, if only to hang on as a
"power-in-being" and help you some more. I'm really glad I stayed in
Boh to help you: it made you stronger, directly struck at my (our)
tormentors by forming a stalemate line, and tied down quite a few enemy
units...even Pitt should be glad for the respite, because he's next on
their potential geographic approach, now that F/I sealed off the south.
Getting the center is problematic. Like I said, my destiny lies in the
East, because I suspect A/T may be breaking apart (or so I keep hoping)
and I can take advantage of the confusion, perhaps. We'll see.
>
>Ciao 4 now
** Stay in touch!
Tsar faz
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Hi Cal
Just a short note, as I'm still scheduling transportation for a variety
of knuckleheads coming to our early June conference. Lazy b**tards
can't do it themselves, it seems. (Me? Sullen? Nah...)
Comments to the comments...
>> Edi's press to me has "mysteriously" fallen silent (cackle). Well, he
>> started it...
>
>I haven't heard from him either, but I bet he's working furiously on the
>REST of the board...
** Oh, I'm sure of it, but I don't know who will listen to him. You and
I know his true colors, Hohn is either already in bed with him, or about
to do him in; and if Pitt listens to him, he can expect a war in his
West, I'll wager, as well as uncertainty about an AT 'spoofing' to catch
him off guard and bust up the F/G. France may be a player in Edi's
dealings, i.e., stabbing you, but I somehow doubt it. Would be nice to
hear from some people, however, to confirm or deny...e-mail among
players is absolutely _hideous_ for the caliber of the so-called "ghods"
playing here. England *used* to be the most frequent writer, and even
Turkey would spar with me before he got too busy and lock-step with Edi.
'Tis only you now...
>> Do you still require support for Vie? if not, I'm heading east, into
>> the sun. I have two turns to get GAL and threaten AT even now. (FG are
>> too tight for any western options, and I can't retake any northern
>> centers, obviously--so I'm committed to either continuing support for
>> you, or heading east.) let me know what you want done.
>
>I haven't looked at the board closely yet and I'm waiting for some
>replies, but I'll let you know what's up. I'd love to get you a centre
>and keep you going for a while. I figure you've played a better game
>than England so you should outlast him...
** I'd love to get a center (or two!) myself, if only to hang on as a
"power-in-being" and help you some more. I'm really glad I stayed in
Boh to help you: it made you stronger, directly struck at my (our)
tormentors by forming a stalemate line, and tied down quite a few enemy
units...even Pitt should be glad for the respite, because he's next on
their potential geographic approach, now that F/I sealed off the south.
Getting the center is problematic. Like I said, my destiny lies in the
East, because I suspect A/T may be breaking apart (or so I keep hoping)
and I can take advantage of the confusion, perhaps. We'll see.
>
>Ciao 4 now
** Stay in touch!
Tsar faz
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I finally found that minute I was looking for. I've started summer
> teaching, and it seems I'm always in class or preparing for the next one.
Bummer. And here I always figured the only reason to go into teaching
and put up with screaming kidlets was the mega-length summer vacation...
:)
> I think we've fairly well arranged everything for the next round. If
> you've heard any interesting stories, clue me in. I hear a few lies from
> the others every now and again, but nothing of much interest. Edi's
> stopped calling for some reason. I can't figure it out.
I'vce been getting mail from Turkey and I'm starting to think he MAY be
serious about attacking Austria. It would certainly be in his best
interest (in the world according to me anyway) to do so. All he can
accomplish by sticking with Austria would be a short term stalemate
line.
I still think we should go ahead with our plan for nowuntil we see what
Turkey is REALLY up to. Finally, we have the advantage of being able to
take as "wait and see" attitude. Meanwhile, I'll still support your
fleet into the Ionian.
Since we are discussing the future, do you have any timetable in mind
for attacking Germany? (I'm assuming of course, that you intend to do
so, but the assumption is based upon your statement that you and I
should stick together).
One of the reasons I'm asking is that I would like to see Russia stick
around for a while. While England, Germany, Austria and Turkey are
pissed off at him, he's done nothing but help me. If possible, I'd like
to see him be second eliminated (after England). For that, he needs a
centre to replace Norway. I'm not altruistic enough to offer him Vienna
(grin), but I was wondering if Munich was a possibility? Obviously he
would need your help for this but, if you want to atack Germany any time
soon, an extra unit BEHIND his lines would be invaluable.
All that is just a though and if you're not interested, I'm not going to
push it. Just let me know what you think of the idea.
Ciao 4 now partner!
Cal
Private message from Italy to Russia:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Hi Cal
> Just a short note, as I'm still scheduling transportation for a variety
> of knuckleheads coming to our early June conference. Lazy b**tards
> can't do it themselves, it seems. (Me? Sullen? Nah...)
Oh never! I can tell... grin.
> >I haven't heard from him either, but I bet he's working furiously on the
> >REST of the board...
>
> ** Oh, I'm sure of it, but I don't know who will listen to him. You and
> I know his true colors, Hohn is either already in bed with him, or about
> to do him in; and if Pitt listens to him, he can expect a war in his
> West, I'll wager, as well as uncertainty about an AT 'spoofing' to catch
> him off guard and bust up the F/G. France may be a player in Edi's
> dealings, i.e., stabbing you, but I somehow doubt it. Would be nice to
> hear from some people, however, to confirm or deny...e-mail among
> players is absolutely _hideous_ for the caliber of the so-called "ghods"
> playing here. England *used* to be the most frequent writer, and even
> Turkey would spar with me before he got too busy and lock-step with Edi.
> 'Tis only you now...
Bet if you were at seven centres though, you'd have more mail. My
combined (sent/received) total of letters is 480. That's roughly TEN
times what I ever received in a postal game and enough to shock this old
gamer...
> ** I'd love to get a center (or two!) myself, if only to hang on as a
> "power-in-being" and help you some more. I'm really glad I stayed in
> Boh to help you: it made you stronger, directly struck at my (our)
> tormentors by forming a stalemate line, and tied down quite a few enemy
> units...even Pitt should be glad for the respite, because he's next on
> their potential geographic approach, now that F/I sealed off the south.
>
> Getting the center is problematic. Like I said, my destiny lies in the
> East, because I suspect A/T may be breaking apart (or so I keep hoping)
> and I can take advantage of the confusion, perhaps. We'll see.
I've looked at the board now and the only way I can see to get you a
centre would be for you to combine with France and try for Munich. In
all honesty, I don't think I have enough pull with him to do this.
MAYBE I could talk him into that sort of attack, but I'm pretty sure
he'd want Munich himself. I'll sound him out. I'm sure glad Jim
extended the deadline as I've been very busy this week. Meanwhile,
write France yourself and see what he says. If he turns us down, then,
well, Galicia IS lovely this time of year... heh heh
ttyl
Cal
Private message from Master to Italy:
Well, Cal, just to interject, when I was teaching full time, I
noticed that it tended to be those with the kids at home that
tended to teach the summer courses. I, being childless, never did.
Even now, teaching part time, I'm avoiding summer courses.
As for explanations? Take your pick over these two or start your
own:
1) Kids require extra money for college savings plans etc. and making
extra money in the summer is necessary to achieve those goals.
2) [currently very hot] Kids running around the house becomes a reason
to "get the hell out" to the safety of work.
GM interjecting.... nothing to do with the game directly.
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> > Message from [email protected] as Italy to Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
> I'd rather not, simply because it _is_ a spring turn. I'd be happy to
> take it as a disband in any fall turn. Or perhaps in a spring turn
> next year or the year after, after we've established a working
> baseline of trust.
This creates a small problem for me of credibility. My discussions with
France the last few moves have always been predicated on first giving up
the Ionian and then taking it back. I would have a real hard time
explaining any reluctance on my part to hit Ion this turn.
To get around this, may I suggest the following:
F Ion-Alb;
F Aeg-Gre;
F Eas-Aeg.
This will give you Eas to retreat to when Ion gets dislodged. It also
has the secondary advantage of being a defensive move just in case you
don't trust me...heh heh. You might want to combine these moves with:
A Con-Rum,
C By F Bla;
F Mos-Ukr.
> > Agreed. In fact, we should start propagandizing both Pitt AND John
> > right after this next turn; Pitt we try to sell on the idea of
> > taking out France so as to get a three way result without a lot
> > of hassle. He's an e-mail player at heart, so I bet he goes for it.
>
> Consider it done.
I'll write to him next.
> > With John, we try to plant the seeds of distrust and make it appear
> > to him that I cannot be attacked.
I've written to France and asked him how he feels about helping me help
Russia to survive by supporting him into Munich. I've said I don't want
Russia to be the first eliminated as he has been a valuable ally to me
(s'true even if everybody else hates him...grin). My REAL goal is to
sound out John's willingness to attack Germany. I'm still worried about
a solid F/G.
> Pitt concerns me much more than John right now.
Me too.
> > Thanks for the compliment, although I think my blind luck has made
> > up for some bad strategic choices this game.
>
> Well, luck certainly always helps, but I'm thinking that most luck can
> be eliminated by use of sound tactics and psychology.
Well, human variables mean that you can't get rid of all luck, but
you're right, you CAN minimize it.
> > > I haven't looked at the board carefully yet, but that sounds
> > > reasonable so far.
> >
> > We'll look at it again after we see Edi's removal.
>
> What do you think of the tactical situation so far? As I promised, I
> did build A CON, btw.
My thoughts are above and I think they offer good odds at taking Edi
down completely. My armies will basically be trying to solidify Trieste
and
Vienna.
> > > I'd like to stress the importance of secrecy for now, so that Edi
> > > doesn't get wind of our working together.
> I think he has to be worried a bit. He's too good a player not to
> realize that he's in a precarious position. But I'm doing my best to
> allay his fears.
Well, since both Mark and John have pointed out to me the precariousness
of Austria's position, I'd say Edi is VERY aware of the danger he's in
(especially after your build - I'd love to know how you explained THAT
one...grin). Do you think he'll make defensive moves against YOU? Or
will he decide to take his chances? I suspect the former...
> > That's about it for now. I'll be writing again this weekend as I
> > have an unexpectedly free couple of days. I was supposed to "test-
> > drive" a canoe to see if I will be buying it, but I didn't get a
> > chance to pick it up. Oh well, next weekend... :)
>
> Did you get it?
Well, I took it out for an overnighter and I'll be buying it if the
owner will make a modification or two for me. Right now, it's more of a
day tripper canoe and I'm into the two-week backpack/portage kind of
wilderness tour (Northern Ontario mostly). It needs a new "yoke" bar
for easier carrying. I'm hoping to make a solo two-week tour through
Algonquin Provincial Park next September. Gonna do some
moose-watching...grin.
> It's been hectic for me as well lately; sorry for my silence.
No problem, I know how you lawyers are... laff.
Cal
Private message from Italy to Master:
On Sun, 1 Jun 1997, USIN Diplomacy Judge wrote:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Master to France and Italy in
> 'ghodstoo':
>
> Well, Cal, just to interject, when I was teaching full time, I
> noticed that it tended to be those with the kids at home that
> tended to teach the summer courses. I, being childless, never did.
> Even now, teaching part time, I'm avoiding summer courses.
>
> As for explanations? Take your pick over these two or start your
> own:
>
> 1) Kids require extra money for college savings plans etc. and making
> extra money in the summer is necessary to achieve those goals.
>
> 2) [currently very hot] Kids running around the house becomes a reason
> to "get the hell out" to the safety of work.
>
> GM interjecting.... nothing to do with the game directly.
>
Actually, I knew all of these. A friend of mine is a full time high
school teacher. I was just pulling John's leg a bit. Little bit of
teasing/humour to lighten up the negotiations. Part of my "style"... heh
heh
Cal
signof
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
> >The build of A BER as well as the moves you performed last season
> >obviously trouble me.
> >I'm moving to defend myself this turn. I hope you will not initiate
> >war, but I am not holding my breath.
>
> Whoa! What caused this reaction? My build was to cover me against
> Russia's remaining army and the likelihood that Edi would attempt it use it
> aainst me. It was in no way anti-Turkish! It's going south, not east.
I can only hope.
I'm going to be honest with you, Pitt. According to what I understand
of what was supposed to happen with Edi, you didn't come through last
season, and as a result he lost Vienna. Also, your build of an army
in Berlin instead of some unit in Kiel is by definition more
aggressive against me. Geography speaks louder than proclaimed
intent, in many cases.
But let's put that aside for right now. I'm in no position to
threaten you, certainly. The converse certainly cannot be said with
any credibility. If you chose to do so, you could launch a pretty
major attack against me right now, and we both know it.
> >Your moves of course force me to continue to support Edi. Which is in
> >some ways a pity, since I think the two of us could work well together
> >should we both decide to move against our principal allies.
>
> Yes, exactly! Please, let's talk about this. I'm sorry I've been silent
> this turn until now but I just kicked off a major new account this morning
> and it's been 14+ hours daily until now. However, I really do want to
> start talking about long-term, GT relations. Please let me know.
OK. Assuming that you don't move on me, I foresee the following.
I was sincere when I said that this game should probably end in a
three-way draw. The player quality is too good to let any other
result happen easily. Ensconced in my corner as I am, I feel my
chances are reasonably decent to finish as one of those three.
Situated as you are, I think your chances are pretty darn good too,
perhaps even better than mine.
I'd like to up both of our chances.
England and Russia are out. Edi is down to four, and if I choose to
move against him, I suspect that between Cal and I, he will fold
rather quickly.
That leaves Italy and France.
I'd prefer to see Italy be the third party, for simple reasons of
geopolitics. I think GIT makes a better and easier natural division
of Europe than FGT. Considering Italy's approaches to you can be
sealed off rather easily, that means we just have to see France go
down and then we're as good as gold. Between you and Italy, I think
you can take France down pretty well.
Again, I'm not well situated to attack you, Pitt. That should give
you some good measure of solace that you will be free to attack
France.
I'm not going to stab Edi this season, simply because I can't afford
to antagonize him while your units are potentially poised for a strike
east. But I am more than willing to do so. And I think you can see
my sincerity, especially as it is in my best interest and as Edi is
very vulnerable.
Please let me know your thoughts. No reasonable counter-proposal will
be refused.
Thanks,
Hohn
Private message from Germany to Turkey:
>Testing. I'm hoping the judge is up now?
I got this.
Any chance that you and I should start talking about long-term plans?
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to Turkey:
>The build of A BER as well as the moves you performed last season
>obviously trouble me.
>
>I'm moving to defend myself this turn. I hope you will not initiate
>war, but I am not holding my breath.
Whoa! What caused this reaction? My build was to cover me against
Russia's remaining army and the likelihood that Edi would attempt it use it
aainst me. It was in no way anti-Turkish! It's going south, not east.
>Your moves of course force me to continue to support Edi. Which is in
>some ways a pity, since I think the two of us could work well together
>should we both decide to move against our principal allies.
Yes, exactly! Please, let's talk about this. I'm sorry I've been silent
this turn until now but I just kicked off a major new account this morning
and it's been 14+ hours daily until now. However, I really do want to
start talking about long-term, GT relations. Please let me know.
-Pitt
Private message from Turkey to Master:
Jim,
Thoughts on the last part of the game.
Well, Edi guessed wrong (I was feeling a bit uneasy about his plan,
and I was right). And Pitt showed his true colors.
I'm a bit surprised Pitt tried such transparent BS on Edi. I mean,
this is supposed to be an expert game, and Edi is certainly no chump.
I'd be insulted. It's quite obvious Pitt is going to stick with the
FG for now. I'm a bit surprised; I think stabbing F while I got my
house in order was probably his best chance for a solo. Maybe he's
content with a draw.
In any event, I have now come to the monumental (for me) conclusion
that I must cut Edi loose. Cal has been mostly reasonable this game,
and I think I can work with him. What's more, I need to make sure I
shore up my land position so that I can withstand a German attack. I
can't do that with Edi in my way, because another player remaining in
the game might throw off the endgame equation. I want to make sure
I'm a part of a draw, and that is in doubt if Edi stays in the game.
There's a reason he's had such success in the past, and that's because
he's slippery. Which makes him even more dangerous when he becomes
desperate.
I don't think hitting Edi will be that disadvantageous to me. Italy
knows he will have to turn on France, or else France will be all over
him. And I feel confident that even if Italy continued into me, I
could hold him off. Being in the corner like I am is a large benefit.
Unless John is a totally wimpy carebear, I don't think he would
blithely sit tight while GI dissect me so the three of them could
share a three-way.
I think the more likely event will be that John and I will axe Italy
after Austria is dead, or that John will turn on Pitt, and then things
will really get interesting.
An FG war is what I am going to push for, because that's the only way
I can possibly see myself taking a solo.
Other than that, I'm going to continue trying to lull Edi, and I've
also sent a lukewarm, half-hearted attempt to Pitt to try to get him
to pull off. I doubt it will work because of his posture and his
press so far, but what the heck.
My real hopes now rest on Cal and John. And I haven't even talked to
John yet! We'll see. This is indeed the point where better and more
frequent diplomacy earlier on with all of my fellow players, rather
than just my immediate neighbors, would have served me better.
Hohn
Private message from Master to Italy:
Ah, of course, as do I.
I hope I don't go over the top with my comment. I just found it
amusing.
I did hope that the deadline extension helps everyone get things
sorted out to their satisfaction (or at least partly). This is
a key season, I'd say.
Jim
Private message from France to Germany:
FYI, I am expecting TI cooperation next move. I think Italy will attack
me. Austria might have conjured it all up, so his armies will no doubt
move on you.
John
Private message from France to Italy:
I've been giving thought to the German situation. Until we defeat AT, I
don't think the time is ripe to take on a big power like Germany. If
Turkey is indeed ready to hit Austria, maybe he'll swing some armies into
the fray. About the time ERA go out, the three of us can carve up the
Kaiser. Meanwhile, best to hold the line, don't you think?
John
Private message from France to Turkey:
Why would you want to harm Germany? I thought you and he were doing well
as friends.
Clue me in.
John, France
Private message from France to Master:
I think I've been the target of some rather clumsy diplomacy. A bit too
coincidental that T and I both start talking up an attack on Germany at the
same time. Italy will move on me, with Turkey's fleets in support. It
will be hard to hold them back.
Private message from France to Russia:
My Friend,
I am sorry to report that I must abandon our plan. I believe you will see
that I was forced to this. I hope that I can help you to survive
nonetheless. I will explore a few avenues and, if you are willing, suggest
later an order you might execute.
I wish it were otherwise. We could have had some fun, but my assessment is
that it would have ended in disaster.
John
Private message from Germany to Turkey:
>I'm going to be honest with you, Pitt. According to what I understand
>of what was supposed to happen with Edi, you didn't come through last
>season, and as a result he lost Vienna.
Not true. Not true, at all.
After the turn processed, Edi claimed that he called and left a message on
my answering machine asking me to tap TYR. That may or may not be but I
never received such a message Admittedly, I had a power failure and all my
messages were erased but Edi could easily have sent me the same request via
email, which he did *not* do. Thus, I did not fail to do something I said
I would do, only something Edi hoped I would do but never actually asked me
and never received confirmation.
It may sound like a fine distinction but it's an important one. I have
never failed to follow through on a firm commitment that I've made to Edi.
I have, on occasion, waffled and declined to make a commitment or
deliberatly tried to leave things murky but, once I said i would do
something, I did it. Period.
So if Edi has told you otherwise, he's deliberately misleading you.
>Also, your build of an army
>in Berlin instead of some unit in Kiel is by definition more
>aggressive against me. Geography speaks louder than proclaimed
>intent, in many cases.
I have a hard time seeing this but I suppose that anything in KIE is less
"threatening" to you than anything in BER. What exactly, though, do you
think I am going to with that army? Even were I inclined to head east, I
have your army in MOS, Russia's army in BOH and Edi's army in GAL to deal
with. What do I have to support my army BER in a headloing flight east? A
fleet in STP/sc. Really, where am I going to go?
It seems to me that it should be obvious that A BER was protection against
Russian A BOH. And, yes, I could have done the same with A KIE but why
should I needlessly antagonize France at this point? (which is what A KIE
most surely have done). France's position in the north and west is
superior to mine and the last thing I want is to engage him whiel that is
still the case. A BER was my only reasonable build.
>But let's put that aside for right now. I'm in no position to
>threaten you, certainly.
No? By yourself, I would agree that you're not an immediate threat. If
you work with Austria against me as opposed to with me, I'm in big trouble.
>The converse certainly cannot be said with
>any credibility. If you chose to do so, you could launch a pretty
>major attack against me right now, and we both know it.
No, I don't! How? Where? I just don't see it. What am I going to attack
you with? A BER and F STP? Or, horror of horrors, let's suppose that I
tried to get A DEN into the act. It takes me a whole year to get it into
play and you couldmeasily hold off my measly two army attack on MOS. And,
all the time that I was doing that, I'm exposing my rear to France. Ain't
gonna happen.
>I was sincere when I said that this game should probably end in a
>three-way draw. The player quality is too good to let any other
>result happen easily.
Yes, I agree. My only goal is to be part of that 3-way.
>Ensconced in my corner as I am, I feel my
>chances are reasonably decent to finish as one of those three.
Agreed. It was touch and go for you at first but you recovered nicely and
there's no way that you're going out now.
>Situated as you are, I think your chances are pretty darn good too,
>perhaps even better than mine.
Come on! I am in the worst position of the 3 remaining large powers (FGT).
I'm stuck in between you both, I've got an irritated Austrian to my south
and the remnants of two pwers (England and Russia) who would like nothing
better than to hurt me on their way out. I feel *very* vulnerable and not
at all assured of making the draw.
>England and Russia are out. Edi is down to four, and if I choose to
>move against him, I suspect that between Cal and I, he will fold
>rather quickly.
Well, I'd prefer that if you move against him it be you and I, not you and
Cal.
>I'd prefer to see Italy be the third party, for simple reasons of
>geopolitics. I think GIT makes a better and easier natural division
>of Europe than FGT. Considering Italy's approaches to you can be
>sealed off rather easily, that means we just have to see France go
>down and then we're as good as gold. Between you and Italy, I think
>you can take France down pretty well.
I don't see this at all. Or, rather, what I see is a rather unsubtle
attempt on your part to try to get me to engage the other large power by
myself while you use your Italian puppet to finish off Austria, and then,
after France and I are locked in each other's deadly embrace, leave you in
position to sweep in and try for the solo.
I'm pretty dumb, Hohn, but I hope I'm not that dumb.
Any reasonable third party looking at the board right now would say that
the game should end in an FGT 3-way. You and I take out Austria, you and
France take out Italy. Should the three of us agree to that, it's over in
two years on the outside.
You, of course, will have to do what you see fit. All I can tell you is
that, while nothing is engraved in stone, I don't see me attacking France
unless something changes drastically. And, so long as he doesn't attack
me, it wll be the two of us who determine who the third part is in the
3-way. I very much want it to be you as that is the most logical and
efficient option. I hope you see it that way, too.
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to France:
John,
Well, at last I have some free time to write to you. I apologize once
again for the long delay.
It seems to me that we are fast approaching the end game. I have always
assumed that the best possible conclusion of a game of this caliber was a
3-way draw. It wasn't always apparanet to me who would be in that draw but
now it's getting clearer. You and I are in a position of some influence.
So long as we continue to work together and do not break faith in each
other, we are guaranteed to share in the draw. None of the other players
can mount a successful attack against a united FG at this point in the game.
I cannot emphasize this enough. If you are experiencing any portion of the
attention I am getting, then you are being inundated under the barrage of
messages from all the other players (most notably Austria) trying to get
you to attack me (or me to attack you). This is simply because they all
now realize just how strong the two of us are together and they're
desperate to drive us apart. We must not let this happen.
Having said that, I think we now need to decide which if the other powers
we would like to share in the 3-way. I think we're both agreed that it
should not be Austria. That leaves Italy and Turkey. I suggest that it be
Turkey. Italy has been a good friend to you, so I know it might be
difficult for you to stab him now. However, if we try to mak ehim the
third pasrty in the 3-way, we will have to find some way to eliminate
Turkey. Given his string position in the corner and the fact that we'd
have to go through *both* Austria and Italy to get to him, I'm not sure we
could do that. Thus, if we decided to stick with Italy, we might be forced
to end up with a 4-way draw.
Now, I'm no big fan of Turkey (and, in fact, he's one of the players trying
to get me to attack you) but, realistically, I think he's got too good a
position for us to do him any serious harm.
So, let me know what you think and, once we work out the larger issues, we
can start on eth details of how we implement them this year.
-Pitt
Private message from Turkey to Master:
Jim,
Pitt wrote:
> I don't see this at all. Or, rather, what I see is a rather unsubtle
> attempt on your part to try to get me to engage the other large power by
> myself while you use your Italian puppet to finish off Austria, and then,
> after France and I are locked in each other's deadly embrace, leave you in
> position to sweep in and try for the solo.
> I'm pretty dumb, Hohn, but I hope I'm not that dumb.
Damn. I didn't think I was being quite that obvious. Maybe I wasn't;
but Pitt's no pushover, certainly.
He's right. I did want to try to set up the GIT because I think
that's the only realistic (albeit small) chance I have to solo.
Oh well. Time to deny. ;)
Hohn
Private message from France to England:
I am sorry to report that our plan has run into a major snag. I thought it
would have made for a fun mid-game. I would appreciate your moving to Nwg
instead of to Hel. I will not take London, and I intend not to hit it
ever. I think your fleet can play a very important role in the coming
years, and I would not be surprised to see you move back up in the world.
Private message from Master to France:
>
> Message from [email protected] as France to Master in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I think I've been the target of some rather clumsy diplomacy. A bit too
> coincidental that T and I both start talking up an attack on Germany at the
> same time. Italy will move on me, with Turkey's fleets in support. It
> will be hard to hold them back.
>
We'll see. I obviously can't say anything specific, but my evaluation
at your skills in doing Diplomacy within this environment has been
growing turn by turn. Still, clumsy is as clumsy does. The proof
is in the pudding.
Jim
Private message from Master to Turkey:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Master in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Jim,
>
> Pitt wrote:
>
> > I don't see this at all. Or, rather, what I see is a rather unsubtle
> > attempt on your part to try to get me to engage the other large power by
> > myself while you use your Italian puppet to finish off Austria, and then,
> > after France and I are locked in each other's deadly embrace, leave you in
> > position to sweep in and try for the solo.
> > I'm pretty dumb, Hohn, but I hope I'm not that dumb.
>
> Damn. I didn't think I was being quite that obvious. Maybe I wasn't;
> but Pitt's no pushover, certainly.
>
Certainly not.
> He's right. I did want to try to set up the GIT because I think
> that's the only realistic (albeit small) chance I have to solo.
>
Yes, ***I*** certainly see that, though I have certain "advantages".
> Oh well. Time to deny. ;)
>
> Hohn
>
This is one of those times that the GM is bursting but really can say
nothing at all, except a generic good luck as I would wish on all.
Heh, heh, heh, Jim
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
> So if Edi has told you otherwise, he's deliberately misleading you.
Entirely possible. Perhaps even probable.
> >But let's put that aside for right now. I'm in no position to
> >threaten you, certainly.
>
> No? By yourself, I would agree that you're not an immediate threat. If
> you work with Austria against me as opposed to with me, I'm in big trouble.
Austria's beset by Italians and rogue Russians right now. He's in no
position to move against you, and I doubt Cal will pull off now, not
after finally managing to take two Austrian home centers and the third
in reasonable sight.
> >The converse certainly cannot be said with
> >any credibility. If you chose to do so, you could launch a pretty
> >major attack against me right now, and we both know it.
>
> No, I don't! How? Where? I just don't see it. What am I going to attack
> you with? A BER and F STP? Or, horror of horrors, let's suppose that I
> tried to get A DEN into the act. It takes me a whole year to get it into
> play and you couldmeasily hold off my measly two army attack on MOS. And,
> all the time that I was doing that, I'm exposing my rear to France. Ain't
> gonna happen.
SWE-BAL
BER-PRU
MUN-SIL
(various other moves to fill gaps and cover)
Is that going to screw me immediately? No, of course not. But it's a
start. And in light of my earlier (perhaps erroneous) understanding
of your relationship with Edi and the potential strength of the
alliance you have with France, I was concerned.
Certainly such an attack would leave you somewhat open to a stab by
France, but nevertheless it was a concern of mine. You're doing well
in allaying that concern, though, and I thank you for it.
(At least, I'm hoping I'll thank you for it.) ;)
> >I was sincere when I said that this game should probably end in a
> >three-way draw. The player quality is too good to let any other
> >result happen easily.
>
> Yes, I agree. My only goal is to be part of that 3-way.
Ditto.
> >Ensconced in my corner as I am, I feel my
> >chances are reasonably decent to finish as one of those three.
>
> Agreed. It was touch and go for you at first but you recovered nicely and
Thanks.
> there's no way that you're going out now.
Well, I'm not quite as sure about that as you are, but hey, I'm hoping
your assessment is correct. :)
> >Situated as you are, I think your chances are pretty darn good too,
> >perhaps even better than mine.
>
> Come on! I am in the worst position of the 3 remaining large powers (FGT).
> I'm stuck in between you both, I've got an irritated Austrian to my south
> and the remnants of two pwers (England and Russia) who would like nothing
> better than to hurt me on their way out. I feel *very* vulnerable and not
> at all assured of making the draw.
I'm in no position to move against you, nor do I have the desire.
Imagine how overextended that would make me.
As for France, since I am relatively ignorant of your relationship
with him, I'll leave that specific issue (how endangered you are by
the chances of a French stab) alone, unless you want to further
discuss it.
> >England and Russia are out. Edi is down to four, and if I choose to
> >move against him, I suspect that between Cal and I, he will fold
> >rather quickly.
>
> Well, I'd prefer that if you move against him it be you and I, not you and
> Cal.
What do you propose we do with Cal, then?
> >I'd prefer to see Italy be the third party, for simple reasons of
> >geopolitics. I think GIT makes a better and easier natural division
> >of Europe than FGT. Considering Italy's approaches to you can be
> >sealed off rather easily, that means we just have to see France go
> >down and then we're as good as gold. Between you and Italy, I think
> >you can take France down pretty well.
>
> I don't see this at all. Or, rather, what I see is a rather unsubtle
> attempt on your part to try to get me to engage the other large power by
> myself while you use your Italian puppet to finish off Austria, and then,
> after France and I are locked in each other's deadly embrace, leave you in
> position to sweep in and try for the solo.
> I'm pretty dumb, Hohn, but I hope I'm not that dumb.
???
Italian puppet?
Man, how differently people see things. Cal is hardly my puppet. In
fact, he's generally quite put out with me.
Pitt, I'm not going to solo. There's no chance in hell I'll be able
to fool the board and pull a fast one in that sense, and I doubt many
(I'd say "any," but then that would be belied by Mark's rather
perplexing decisions in some of this game) of you will feel charitable
enough to just give the game to anyone else.
No, I'm sincere when I say that I think GIT is the natural division.
I suppose it will depend on how alliance structures shake down. But
geographically, it seemed sensible.
> Any reasonable third party looking at the board right now would say that
> the game should end in an FGT 3-way. You and I take out Austria, you and
> France take out Italy. Should the three of us agree to that, it's over in
> two years on the outside.
As I said, no reasonable counter-proposal will be refused. If
assurances can be made to provide for my security against the "mighty
FG alliance," I have no objection to FGT.
But in such a case, how will we deal with Italy?
> You, of course, will have to do what you see fit. All I can tell you is
> that, while nothing is engraved in stone, I don't see me attacking France
> unless something changes drastically. And, so long as he doesn't attack
> me, it wll be the two of us who determine who the third part is in the
> 3-way. I very much want it to be you as that is the most logical and
> efficient option. I hope you see it that way, too.
I'm all for logic and efficiency. My concern is based partly on the
above paragraph, though. If you and France are so solid, my fears of
attack by you increase.
Perhaps we will both be benefited by talking specifics. What do you
think we should do this upcoming turn, and then in fall? You
mentioned wanting to dice up Edi with me, and in so doing cut Cal out
of it. How do you propose to do that?
I look forward to your reply.
Hohn
Private message from Germany to France:
>FYI, I am expecting TI cooperation next move. I think Italy will attack
>me. Austria might have conjured it all up, so his armies will no doubt
>move on you.
None of the above would surpise me. As I see it, we have three tasks. In
orer of priority, they are:
1. work together *very* closely for our mutual safety and protection
2. try to prevent AIT from linking up and, if they do, split T off to join
us in a 3-way
3. make slow, steady progress on our own
-Pitt
Private message from France to Germany:
Pitt, our messages crossed. Turkey has indeed contacted me, first time in
this game, begging me to attack Germany. I've done no more than ask why he
would want that, given your recent cooperation.
My inference is that he's allied with Italy. I have to move fleets south
fast and put the armies in defensive position. I am also asking England to
move around to help out. I've offered to leave London alone in exchange.
I hope he'll go for it. In the long run, I would expect your fleets will
join the fray too.
If I'm wrong, well, what the heck, we might have good position on Italy.
But I don't think I am wrong.
Private message from Germany to France:
>Pitt, our messages crossed. Turkey has indeed contacted me, first time in
>this game, begging me to attack Germany.
No surpise there.
>My inference is that he's allied with Italy.
Maybe. From what Turkey has said to me, though, I think his long term goal
isnmto ally with Italy to take out Austria, try to get you and I to tangle,
and then sweep in to grab a solo from the melee. If we continue to show
solidarity, one of them will have to break. I think it will Turkey if
*really* comes to believe that he can't split FG.
>I am also asking England to
>move around to help out. I've offered to leave London alone in exchange.
Please be careful with that one. He'll most likely promise anything to
stay alive at this point.
-Pitt
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
> Message from [email protected] as France to Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
> Why would you want to harm Germany? I thought you and he were doing well
> as friends.
> Clue me in.
Man, there is so much disinformation being slung right now that I'm
not sure _what_ to believe. Sorry if I've confused you. I'm quite
confused myself.
Perhaps I can place a different spin on the question. How solid are
you with Germany right now? Do you have any desire of stabbing at
all, or fears of being stabbed? And perhaps most importantly, how do
those things relate to your long-term vision of how you see this game
ending?
I'll go first. I think this game should end in a three-way. I'll go
a step further in saying that I think practically _all_ games with
seven expert players should end in three-ways. My goal is to become
one of those three last players. I'm eminently flexible with respect
to who the other two are, though. :) With you, Pitt and Cal emerging
as the other three major powers, I'm most curious with respect to how
things will shake down between the four of us in that respect.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matter.
Thanks,
Hohn
Private message from Russia to England:
>GKJ,
>
>>I have also received a follow-on message from Gentle King Jean (sorry,
>>you're temporarily usurped). Things are still in the air, indeed. His
>>worry is 'interesting,' shall we say, but I think unfounded. Of course,
>>this is the same man who believed Edi and Hohn, wrecked his own country,
>>and helped kill his English friend--so what do I know?
>
>I don't know what the worry is.
>Is it that Italy will turn? That sounds like some Edi propaganda, huh?
>
>** Yeah, that's the worry. Edi may be spewing it to divert F/I solidarity
>from A/T's advance (or to foment trouble and keep Italy and/or Turkey off his
>behind); who knows? If T/I did join up, they could punch through TyS and
>WesMed while John's occupied up north. But I don't see it happening.
>
>>Any news from G, I, T or A?
>
>Nothing much.
>Edi thinks I'm crazy to have kept the F Nth.
>
>** Edi thinks I'm crazy to keep BOH and for doing what I did. It's easy to
>criticize other people's moves. But I got him down to 4 with Italy, and he
>may yet fall under some blades, so I don't regret what I did. Edi never
>takes off his game face, and he's a hard nut to read. I guess that's what
>I'll be like as an old(er) man, lost in games...sheesh.
>
>Cal also suggested that I keep
>the F Eng and sail it out into the MAO, trying to hole up in Portugal.
>
>** Well, that would've kept you alive, but then what? You either throw FG
>together out of convenience, or you divert France for awhile from helping
>stanch the A/T flow. And then you wait for the lapping tides to engulf you.
>Nah; you did the right thing. More people to hurt this way, potentially!
>
>Hohn implies interest in stabbing if Germany and France will be at war, but
>I won't reply to that.
>
>** Ditto. Hohn merely wished me well, as he "couldn't influence my life or
>death anymore" now that we're geographically separate (yea, verily). I urged
>him to stab Edi if he's in cahoots with Germany, but that's just wasting air.
>
>Nothing from Pitt, even though I tried to rile him by stating that his last
>moves were really stupid.
>
>** Well, now I can at least feel morally superior to you! *I* got a reply
>from Pitt after castigating him for said "dumb" moves. ha ha.
>
>Of course, cynically (and realistically) looking at it, big deal. I am but
>the ant, biting him verbally and perhaps tactically. He is the elephant, who
>will eventually rear up and step on me.
>
>> If I were Turkey, I'd be writing G and I,
>>asking them to hit France (bust through TyS and threaten the stalemate
>>line beyond WesMed while F is tied up north), and kill Edi in the
>>process. Then, as a mega-center Turk, I could whimsically crush I or G
>>with the other at a later date.
>
>Yeah.
>I guess I'd 'wait and see', as Turkey. His problem is that he is too
>containable unless he breaks into Italy, so if he thinks Austria can hold
>up a while it seems to me his best bet is to try to do that. Austrian
>centers look to be available to Turkey for years to come. Even if they were
>overrun by I/G, Turkey could pick away at them from his sound corner
>position.
>
>Yawn.
>
>** I share your enthusiasm. In a perverse way, I wish they'd pull me off the
>life support systems and let me begin the summer with bad memories and a
>clean slate. Who wants to be in a Dip vegetative state ad nauseam with one
>center? (Is this what they call a "vegetable dip," yuk yuk.)
>
>TTFN
>
>Tsar Faz
>endpress
>signoff
>
>GKJ
>
>
>
>
Private message from England to Russia:
>I have also received a follow-on message from Gentle King Jean (sorry,
>you're temporarily usurped). Things are still in the air, indeed. His
>worry is 'interesting,' shall we say, but I think unfounded. Of course,
>this is the same man who believed Edi and Hohn, wrecked his own country,
>and helped kill his English friend--so what do I know?
I don't know what the worry is.
Is it that Italy will turn? That sounds like some Edi propaganda, huh?
>Any news from G, I, T or A?
Nothing much.
Edi thinks I'm crazy to have kept the F Nth. Cal also suggested that I keep
the F Eng and sail it out into the MAO, trying to hole up in Portugal.
Hohn implies interest in stabbing if Germany and France will be at war, but
I won't reply to that.
Nothing from Pitt, even though I tried to rile him by stating that his last
moves were really stupid.
> If I were Turkey, I'd be writing G and I,
>asking them to hit France (bust through TyS and threaten the stalemate
>line beyond WesMed while F is tied up north), and kill Edi in the
>process. Then, as a mega-center Turk, I could whimsically crush I or G
>with the other at a later date.
Yeah.
I guess I'd 'wait and see', as Turkey. His problem is that he is too
containable unless he breaks into Italy, so if he thinks Austria can hold
up a while it seems to me his best bet is to try to do that. Austrian
centers look to be available to Turkey for years to come. Even if they were
overrun by I/G, Turkey could pick away at them from his sound corner
position.
Yawn.
GKJ
Private message from Russia to Master:
Jim:
Not much to tell you this time around, as you're privy to the press
that's been flying between F, E and myself as of late. The news/letters
are all true data. E and R are trying to entice a French stab of
Germany, believing it to be in the best interests of all. France,
validly, worries about the ramifications and the potential of an Italian
defection.
Russian sensibilities would find it hard to believe Italy would turn
west and allow AT growth behind him, given the bitter fighting to date.
However, it *is* a consideration: both I and T would stand to gain by
punching through TYS and WesMed, and Edi's carcass could be devoured by
both for mutual gain and for preparation vs any FG that forms.
For me, it's "much ado about nothing." My country has been torpedoed to
the point of death. I must now depend on either French goodwill
(rapidly receding) or some "dash to the wire" into GAL or SIL, and hope
that no enemy unit is nearby to bounce me in fall (yeah, right).
Methinks next game season will be the last press from the Tsar, unless a
Miracle on the Marne occurs in central Europe....
Faz
Private message from Russia to England:
GKJ
I have also received a follow-on message from Gentle King Jean (sorry,
you're temporarily usurped). Things are still in the air, indeed. His
worry is 'interesting,' shall we say, but I think unfounded. Of course,
this is the same man who believed Edi and Hohn, wrecked his own country,
and helped kill his English friend--so what do I know?
I have nowhere else to go, nothing else to do, and no one else to
converse with; I'm not going anywhere, so it's "hurry up and wait."
Any news from G, I, T or A? If I were Turkey, I'd be writing G and I,
asking them to hit France (bust through TyS and threaten the stalemate
line beyond WesMed while F is tied up north), and kill Edi in the
process. Then, as a mega-center Turk, I could whimsically crush I or G
with the other at a later date.
Sigh.....so easy to "spend other people's money."
Tsar Faz
Private message from England to Russia:
Yes, I did.
I don't know the reason for the change either.
But hang on, things are apparently still a bit up in the air.
GKJ
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Hi Cal
Sorry I didn't respond to you sooner. This conference is killing me!
Ah well, in 5 days it will have come and gone!
What's the deal with you / us ? Do you need me to support you anywhere?
if you're status quo vs A/T, I can do the GAL thing. If you're going
to change horses (I'd consider an alliance with Hohn to eat Edi up and
get you both into the "gains" column -- of course, we've both tried that
before), I can still help you somehow, if you have ideas.
If you're after FG, I can also try something if you'd like. Maybe hit
MUN, or go to SIL and keep them occupied..could even threaten WAR in an
offhand way, I guess...until At come calling...
What have you heard from the others? As a 1-center "minilith," I get
little-to-no mail anymore, as noted before. Has France offered you more
help? has the Hun mentioned anything about me, or his plans? Any good
news from Aus or Tur? I imagine Edi's sweating bullets, and may be
offeringyou the world now (-grin-). Like I said, though, make sure A/T
aren't trying to spoof you and break up the F/I wall, now that it's set
up. I really expect Turkey to be writing you hot and heavy; has he?
Any news from our ol' buddy England? Ever since the HEL/MUn fiasco,
we've had little discussions (understandable, I guess).
Anyway, fill in your soon-to-die ally with any advice, news from the
board, or recommendations from you. I can go just about anywhere with
BOH, so offer it up. After all, even when it goes somewhere, it really
will go "nowhere."
Tsar Fz
Private message from Russia to France:
King Jean
Whoa. Italy about to attack you? News to me. On the paranoid side, he
did NOT request the continued goodwill & support of yours truly. On the
other hand, he doesn't need me anymore, so why ask?
If he did attack you, they key question is: with German aid/collusion,
with A/T's belssing, or on a solo whim? I can't visualize the latter.
if with German support, then once again, we come back to the "get them
before they get you," because if he IS in cahoots with the Hun, the only
firepower you have *left* is ER, however puny. (Unless you've got a
reciprocal deal with A/T, of course.)
Now, if he's made a deal with the twin Eastern devils (singly with Hohn
or jointly with Hohn or Edi), then that's a horse of a different color.
He could be in with Hohn, as both could gain from a chop-up of Edi --
although most of his forces would be busy killing Austria, not you. The
only danger from Italy, in my opinion, would be a deal with Turkey,
where he/they hit TyS and TYO and busted into the Med quickly while your
fleets putz around with England. I'll see what I can ascertain about
such an option.
If it were me, I'd definitely get your F WAL into Ech and/or MAo quickly
as a preventative. Know, however, that you can't be strong everywhere.
if GI or TI (or whatever Italian combo) decide to hit you, it's only a
matter of time before G dumps on you as well, lest others take "his"
spoils.
But yes, if Germany *seems* your only ally in these times of potential
trouble, you'd be crazy to hit him. Hope your judgment of neighbors is
better than mine was! Ah, the perils of short-fuze decisionmaking...
Will see what I can get from Italy, and let you know. I'll be discrete.
Keep me in your plans.
Tsar Faz
Private message from France to England:
As it turns out, we may be on again. Hold on for a short while, then I'll
explain everything.
Napolean IV
Private message from France to Russia:
Tsar Faz: Here's my problem. I became convinced that Italy was ready to
attack me. I'm not quite so sure now, but I have reasons for my strong
suspicions. If that happens, how can I hit Germany now? I won't have
ERI, I'll have ER. As much as I like you guys, you don't carry much
firepower.
If you have reason to believe otherwise, let me know. Maybe you can figure
out a way to gain some info without tipping our hand.
Napolean IV
Private message from Russia to France:
John,
No, I think you "did right" in saying something. Imagine my
consternation if you DIDN'T say something, and left me hanging. As much
as I'm upset and dismayed, I appreciate your frankness.
Please do consider the options. Yes, it *does* possibly make for a
hairier situation if you take on a strong Hun and/or a Hun in collusion
with AT. But if the latter is true, they're coming for you anyway. if
the former, then you need to ask yourself:
-Will I gain more by trusting Pitt and fending off AT, knowing my future
gains are minimal? or
- Will I gain more by hitting Pitt and taking my chances? In such a
battle, you have ERI support as loyal puppets, and stand to get the bulk
of German centers before an AT would.
*THAT* cost-benefit analysis, however, is your call. I can only
recommend, but you ultimately decide.
I hope you decide favorably for the Tsar and John Bull.
Oh, FYI: Italy wished me well in GAL. Told me he'd try and negotiate
an option of French suppoort for me to MUN, but that he doubted it would
work. He thinks I'm headed for GAL. Looks like our "radio silence"
worked well. Pity if it doesn't go off after all this....
Tsar Faz
Private message from France to Russia:
I understand your consternation. I continue to feel the situation out.
The plan was for real, and it might yet be on before the deadline. You'll
know by the end of the day.
Sorry for this. I probably should not have said anything.
John
Private message from Russia to England:
GKJ
Have you received a similar (ahem) "Dear John" letter from France? If
not, then I wish you luck and continued survival. If so, I just *wish*
there were a way to take these guys down with us.....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>Message from [email protected] as France to Russia in 'ghodstoo':
>My Friend,
>
>I am sorry to report that I must abandon our plan. I believe you will see
>that I was forced to this.
>press to f
>
>John
>Pretty vanilla note to announce my death warrant. Would you do me the favor
>of a little more explanation? After all, I *am* a one-center soon-to-die
>nation. I think it would only be cricket.
>
** WHY are you "forced" to change the plan at this stage? WHO "forced"
you to do so? Has Germany bluffed you (or cowed you) into submission?
Was there ever a "plan" all along? (I'm assuming "yes," although the
timing of this announcement seems a bit stretched.)
> I hope that I can help you to survive
>nonetheless. I will explore a few avenues and, if you are willing, suggest
>later an order you might execute.
** I naturally do not "see" all the board any more, most people having
written me off. So I realize there are "higher imperatives" driving
French foreign policy. Short of truly allying with Germany vs the AT --
and assuming he makes the moves he probably told you he would -- I'm not
so sure how these would end in "disaster," given G sandwiched between a
solid F/I/(E)/(R) and a westward-moving A/T. Obviously you have other
info; so be it.
>I wish it were otherwise.
** So do I, John, so do I. I will, of course, anxiously wait for any
other "executbale orders" you might suggest, but if they don't get me a
center, then we're just wasting time and my last life-minutes on the
board.
>We could have had some fun,
** Ah, heck, let's not bring FUN into this!? Why should a GAME be FUN?
>but my assessment is
>that it would have ended in disaster.
** Well, you're the man with the plan and the forces to execute the
plan. If you say it ain't gonna happen, it ain't gonna happen.
Bon chance
Tsar Faz
Private message from Russia to France:
John
Pretty vanilla note to announce my death warrant. Would you do me the
favor of a little more explanation? After all, I *am* a one-center
soon-to-die nation. I think it would only be cricket.
>My Friend,
>
>I am sorry to report that I must abandon our plan. I believe you will see
>that I was forced to this.
** WHY are you "forced" to change the plan at this stage? WHO "forced"
you to do so? Has Germany bluffed you (or cowed you) into submission?
Was there ever a "plan" all along? (I'm assuming "yes," although the
timing of this announcement seems a bit stretched.)
> I hope that I can help you to survive
>nonetheless. I will explore a few avenues and, if you are willing, suggest
>later an order you might execute.
** I naturally do not "see" all the board any more, most people having
written me off. So I realize there are "higher imperatives" driving
French foreign policy. Short of truly allying with Germany vs the AT --
and assuming he makes the moves he probably told you he would -- I'm not
so sure how these would end in "disaster," given G sandwiched between a
solid F/I/(E)/(R) and a westward-moving A/T. Obviously you have other
info; so be it.
>I wish it were otherwise.
** So do I, John, so do I. I will, of course, anxiously wait for any
other "executbale orders" you might suggest, but if they don't get me a
center, then we're just wasting time and my last life-minutes on the
board.
>We could have had some fun,
** Ah, heck, let's not bring FUN into this!? Why should a GAME be FUN?
>but my assessment is
>that it would have ended in disaster.
** Well, you're the man with the plan and the forces to execute the
plan. If you say it ain't gonna happen, it ain't gonna happen.
As you grow to good heights this game, at least pause your people for a
moment of silence and remember the "Miracle of the Marne" that pulled E
and I off your back and let you be in a position of power. At least
give the Tsar that much respectful silence, seeing how you can't/won't
give aid.
Bon chance
Tsar Faz
Private message from Italy to France:
Just a note to make sure our tactics are in order.
I'm supporting your fleet in Tyrrhenian to Ionian
and your army in Tyrolia is supporting me in Vienna.
Does this sound okay to you?
Cal
Private message from Italy to France:
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> I've been giving thought to the German situation. Until we defeat AT, I
> don't think the time is ripe to take on a big power like Germany. If
> Turkey is indeed ready to hit Austria, maybe he'll swing some armies into
> the fray. About the time ERA go out, the three of us can carve up the
> Kaiser. Meanwhile, best to hold the line, don't you think?
The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. We may have the
forces to hit Germany, but we don't have the reserve to exploit any
gains
we might make so long as we are still fighting a war in the Med.
If Turkey does as he "says" he will do and actually DOES hit Austria
this
turn, we'll take a fresh look at the situation. If this does happen, I
can see a hit on Germany by Spring 1907 (at the latest). If there is
NO hit, then I can see us having to enlist Germany's help. Our best
strategy in that case would be to try to get Pitt to overextend himself
eastwards and, hopefully, leave himself open to us.
I'll let you know if I hear any more from anyone.
Cal
Private message from England to France:
Ok.
What's the snag, if I may ask?
Gentle King J
Private message from Germany to Turkey:
>> No? By yourself, I would agree that you're not an immediate threat. If
>> you work with Austria against me as opposed to with me, I'm in big trouble.
>
>Austria's beset by Italians and rogue Russians right now. He's in no
>position to move against you
Well, by himself, of course not. However, as you and I both know, Edi is
extremely sly and slippery. It would be trivial for him to get help from
Russia since Russia's only mission in life right now is to give me some
small measure of payback. If Edi can also find a way to convince Cal to
hold with what he's got, I'm in big, big trouble. Just one more reason
that I need a friendly Turkey.
>> No, I don't! How? Where? I just don't see it. What am I going to attack
>> you with?
>
>SWE-BAL
>BER-PRU
>MUN-SIL
>(various other moves to fill gaps and cover)
You make my point for me. All of the above is a precursor only to an
attack on you. It telegraphs my intentions, takes a year just to get
there, and, when I do, I have, at most, three whole armies to threaten you
with. All the while, of course, I have to bend over, drop my drawers, and
invite the delicate attentions of any and all who are at my rear. All of
this just for the possiibility of fighting you for no gain in the east. I
guess I must have done something to convince you that I'm a totally
incompetent player if you truly believe that I am planning on that course
of action...
>And in light of my earlier (perhaps erroneous) understanding
>of your relationship with Edi
I could be mistaken but I have always thought that my relationsship with
Edi was the same as yours - that is, one of mutual benefit and convenience
for so long as it was of *mutual* benefit and convenience. I'll stick with
my friend and ally for so long as it is my best interests (short and long
term) to do so. After that, well I'm no altruist and this is Dip, after all.
>Certainly such an attack would leave you somewhat open to a stab by
>France, but nevertheless it was a concern of mine. You're doing well
>in allaying that concern, though, and I thank you for it.
Phew! I'm glad to hear it.
>(At least, I'm hoping I'll thank you for it.) ;)
heh...
>Italian puppet?
>
>Man, how differently people see things. Cal is hardly my puppet. In
>fact, he's generally quite put out with me.
I believe that but I also have considerable faith in your diplomatic
skills. I don't think it's beyond the realm f possibility that you cold
convince him to join you in a mutual attack on Austria if you were also
able to convince France or I to attack the other. Then, when Austria was
toast, you could swallow up Italy while France and I were entangled. You'd
be in the catbird seat then.
>Pitt, I'm not going to solo.
Surely not if I can help it, anway...;-)
>There's no chance in hell I'll be able
>to fool the board and pull a fast one in that sense, and I doubt many
>(I'd say "any," but then that would be belied by Mark's rather
>perplexing decisions in some of this game)
;-)
>No, I'm sincere when I say that I think GIT is the natural division.
>I suppose it will depend on how alliance structures shake down. But
>geographically, it seemed sensible.
Not to me, I'm afraid. FGT seems the only viable option to me.
>As I said, no reasonable counter-proposal will be refused. If
>assurances can be made to provide for my security against the "mighty
>FG alliance," I have no objection to FGT.
>
>But in such a case, how will we deal with Italy?
You and France take him out. I feel quite certain that France would be
very open to this idea if you were to propose it and show him that you were
serious about it. I *know* that I'd be very receptive to a plan that had
you and I taking out Austria.
>I'm all for logic and efficiency. My concern is based partly on the
>above paragraph, though. If you and France are so solid, my fears of
>attack by you increase.
Right back at you with the "3-way is the best possible outcome" rationale.
If we agree that a solo is not going to happen (and we *do* agree, believe
me), a 3-way is the best possible option. No way I'm stupid enough to try
for a 2-way with players of this caliber.
>Perhaps we will both be benefited by talking specifics. What do you
>think we should do this upcoming turn, and then in fall?
I'm going to move to cover myself against that Russian army and be in
position to go after Austria if you choose to join me in the fall. Until I
see something more concrete (in words and actions), I'm not willing to be
more specific. By more concrete, I'm not talking about an outright attack
on Edi but, rather, no hostile moves towards me and ensuring that your
units are in place to attack Edi if you want to do so.
Let me know what you think.
-Pitt
Private message from England to Russia:
>>I don't know what the worry is.
>>Is it that Italy will turn? That sounds like some Edi propaganda, huh?
>>
>>** Yeah, that's the worry.
Good, in a way. I mean, this shows me I still have *some* sense of the game!
Right, I do think it's Edi spewing. Italy would be foolish to move west
with Turkey right there at the gate. But you probably have a better sense
of Cal's MO than I have.
>> Edi never
>>takes off his game face, and he's a hard nut to read. I guess that's what
>>I'll be like as an old(er) man, lost in games...sheesh.
I don't see it quite like that. I think he's trying to squeeze some
information out of me. But I'm too cagey for that!
>>Cal also suggested that I keep
>>the F Eng and sail it out into the MAO, trying to hole up in Portugal.
>>
>>** Well, that would've kept you alive, but then what?
Well, actually, I doubt it would have. John would have seen it coming and
moved A Mar-Spa. Then at best I'd have to guess at Por or Spa. And then I'd
be out the next year in any case, without the pleasure of having used my
last unit to hurt someone I wanted to hurt.
>>Nah; you did the right thing. More people to hurt this way, potentially!
Yeah, that's the ticket.
>>** Well, now I can at least feel morally superior to you! *I* got a reply
>>from Pitt after castigating him for said "dumb" moves. ha ha.
I got one explanation, actually. But since it made no sense, I wrote back
pointing out that it made no sense. That was my attempted riling. But I
failed.
>>** I share your enthusiasm. In a perverse way, I wish they'd pull me off the
>>life support systems and let me begin the summer with bad memories and a
>>clean slate. Who wants to be in a Dip vegetative state ad nauseam with one
>>center? (Is this what they call a "vegetable dip," yuk yuk.)
I can go either way. If I can play a small part in a rough endgame, I'll
enjoy that. If my plug gets pulled, well, it's about time.
-GKJ
Private message from Russia to England:
GKJ
>Good, in a way. I mean, this shows me I still have *some* sense of the game!
>
>Right, I do think it's Edi spewing. Italy would be foolish to move west
>with Turkey right there at the gate. But you probably have a better sense
>of Cal's MO than I have.
** You, of all people, were never suspected of not having a sense of the
game. Present position was caused by many factors outside your control
(I should know), and you're a fab player done wrong by externalities.
>
>
>>> Edi never
>>>takes off his game face, and he's a hard nut to read. I guess that's what
>>>I'll be like as an old(er) man, lost in games...sheesh.
>
>I don't see it quite like that. I think he's trying to squeeze some
>information out of me. But I'm too cagey for that!
** My comment was about Edi in general, based on my observation and
those who've ftf'd him. I didn't know he'd written you and was probing
for info. But sure, I can see him wanting to know wat's going on. He
doesn't write me anymore...I wonder why?
>>>Cal also suggested that I keep
>>>the F Eng and sail it out into the MAO, trying to hole up in Portugal.
>>>
>>>** Well, that would've kept you alive, but then what?
>
>Well, actually, I doubt it would have. John would have seen it coming and
>moved A Mar-Spa. Then at best I'd have to guess at Por or Spa. And then I'd
>be out the next year in any case, without the pleasure of having used my
>last unit to hurt someone I wanted to hurt.
>
>>>Nah; you did the right thing. More people to hurt this way, potentially!
>
>Yeah, that's the ticket.
>
** Geez, I suppose you could always go to NWY again, with that train of
thought (just kidding; Germany would use superior power to get it in
spring anyway)!
This brings up an interesting decision tree for me/us. What if France
plays "semi-nice" guy and says he likes us, but can't help? Given our
positions, should we even try and screw him (the "Baldur von Schirach in
the Nazi 'evil' pantheon) compared to G, A or T (the...well, never
mind)? If so, I could always TRY and get Italy to head west (Tyo?). Or
I could just go east in a flaming rush, or still hit MUn for the h*** of
it. Ah, so many decisions, so few units....
>>>** Well, now I can at least feel morally superior to you! *I* got a reply
>>>from Pitt after castigating him for said "dumb" moves. ha ha.
>
>I got one explanation, actually. But since it made no sense, I wrote back
>pointing out that it made no sense. That was my attempted riling. But I
>failed.
** Nuts. So much for moral superiority. (grin)
>
>>>** I share your enthusiasm. In a perverse way, I wish they'd pull me off
>>>the
>>>life support systems and let me begin the summer with bad memories and a
>>>clean slate. Who wants to be in a Dip vegetative state ad nauseam with one
>>>center? (Is this what they call a "vegetable dip," yuk yuk.)
>
>I can go either way. If I can play a small part in a rough endgame, I'll
>enjoy that. If my plug gets pulled, well, it's about time.
** Again, we're sympatico. I'd like to stick around, even as a small
but influential power. (Can't get much smaller!) But if it means
being a perpetual puppet and trapped in one spot, then "let my people
free" and let's let the big(ger) boys keep the ball. Too many game
openings, too little time to play 'em all.
It's been a pleasure, Jamie.
Tsar faz
Private message from France to Turkey:
Sultan,
I was not listening to disinfo, only observing your support for Germany's
capture of St Pete. A friendly gesture, at least. That's why I don't
understand your desire now to attack him.
Looking at the board, a logical move would be for you to help Italy carve
up Austria's remains, then see what beckons. Are you still committed to
Austria or are you thinking about how to dissect him?
If Italy would leave you alone, you could do it by yourself, even.
Without a hint or two about the eastern/Med situation, I can't reassess my
relationship with Germany. So far, we've been working well together.
That's all I know for sure.
John
Private message from England to France:
Remember that my current is Nth-Nwg.
You'll let me know if you want Nth-Hel.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from France to Italy:
FYI, I was subjected to some extremely heavy diplomacy from the AT cabal
last night. Their phone calls came almost upon one another. They expect
me to attack you. Turkey promises to attack Austria later. Yeah, right.
They are joined at the hip.
Tactics: Fleet, yes, army, can't do it. Plan accordingly.
France
Private message from Russia to Italy:
Hi Cal,
Many thanks for your recent reply; see my comments interspersed...
>>I couldn't talk France into supporting you to Munich, so if you could
>>hit Galicia, that'd be great with me.
** That's fine, I reckon. I mean, it was a long shot anyway, and if he
fears the AT as much as he should, he'll probably be loathe to help me
help his only possible 'mobile' ally. I mean, I did hold out some hope,
but that's only because I'm so boxed in. Well, that's why there's a
Galicia, you know?! :>)
>>
>>> If you're after FG, I can also try something if you'd like. Maybe hit
>>> MUN, or go to SIL and keep them occupied..could even threaten WAR in an
>>> offhand way, I guess...until At come calling...
>>
>>Nah, I'd sooner you torment Edi... :)
** Me too. I honestly have nothing truly "against" him this game. And
had he offered real help instead of perpetually offering fluff and fibs,
I'd have helped him kick some butt. A fine example of two people
bringing each other down....although he got me first, thanks to his
cumbersome yellow-blocked ally...
>>
>I really expect Turkey to be writing you hot and heavy; has he?
>>
>>Yup, which is more than I can say for Edi, whom I've NOT heard from.
>>Hohn is talking about hitting Edi this turn ("top secret: by the way,
>>although it IS pretty obvious) and it seems likely. It's certainly
>>in his best interest. Last time I thought that, he really did have a
>>choice as who to ally with. His options are much more limited this
>>time.
>>
** Well, Hohn may be trying to make the 'stab' "look obvious" and thus
lull you into an unsuspecting hit (again). I mean, Austrian centers are
always there for the taking, and Edi doesn't seem to be getting more
"gain potential" anywhere. I mean, what SC can Edi easily obtain from
here on in? Heck, if I was Hohn, I'd hit him now, and give you one or
two to boot. We'll see soon enough...
>>> Any news from our ol' buddy England? Ever since the HEL/MUn fiasco,
>>> we've had little discussions (understandable, I guess).
>>
>>Nada. He hasn't written me for a while.
** We've done our mutual farewell letters between us.
>>
>>> Anyway, fill in your soon-to-die ally with any advice, news from the
>>> board, or recommendations from you. I can go just about anywhere with
>>> BOH, so offer it up. After all, even when it goes somewhere, it really
>>> will go "nowhere."
>>
>>Like I said, if you can hit Galicia, that'd be fine. If by some fluke
>>you get it, I'll do my best to get you into a centre in the Fall.
** Ok, will do. Good hunting, mon ami.
Faz
Private message from Russia to France:
Hi John
Normally I don't pass whole notes from others, but as you *are* willing
to help me, and as you are worried about Italy, I thought this note
might be a little more reassuring.....
The > parts are mine, obviously, with Cal replying to each....
Faz
>
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to Russia in 'ghodstoo':
>
>> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
>> What's the deal with you / us ? Do you need me to support you anywhere?
>> if you're status quo vs A/T, I can do the GAL thing. If you're going
>> to change horses (I'd consider an alliance with Hohn to eat Edi up and
>> get you both into the "gains" column -- of course, we've both tried that
>> before), I can still help you somehow, if you have ideas.
>
>I couldn't talk France into supporting you to Munich, so if you could
>hit Galicia, that'd be great with me.
>
>> If you're after FG, I can also try something if you'd like. Maybe hit
>> MUN, or go to SIL and keep them occupied..could even threaten WAR in an
>> offhand way, I guess...until At come calling...
>
>Nah, I'd sooner you torment Edi... :)
>
>> What have you heard from the others? As a 1-center "minilith," I get
>> little-to-no mail anymore, as noted before. Has France offered you more
>> help? has the Hun mentioned anything about me, or his plans? Any good
>> news from Aus or Tur? I imagine Edi's sweating bullets, and may be
>> offeringyou the world now (-grin-). Like I said, though, make sure A/T
>> aren't trying to spoof you and break up the F/I wall, now that it's set
>> up. I really expect Turkey to be writing you hot and heavy; has he?
>
>Yup, which is more than I can say for Edi, whom I've NOT heard from.
>Hohn is talking about hitting Edi this turn ("top secret: by the way,
>although it IS pretty obvious) and it seems likely. It's certainly
>in his best interest. Last time I thought that, he really did have a
>choice as who to ally with. His options are much more limited this
>time.
>
>> Any news from our ol' buddy England? Ever since the HEL/MUn fiasco,
>> we've had little discussions (understandable, I guess).
>
>Nada. He hasn't written me for a while.
>
>> Anyway, fill in your soon-to-die ally with any advice, news from the
>> board, or recommendations from you. I can go just about anywhere with
>> BOH, so offer it up. After all, even when it goes somewhere, it really
>> will go "nowhere."
>
>Like I said, if you can hit Galicia, that'd be fine. If by some fluke
>you get it, I'll do my best to get you into a centre in the Fall.
>
>Cal
Private message from Turkey to Germany:
Pitt,
> >Austria's beset by Italians and rogue Russians right now. He's in no
> >position to move against you
>
> Well, by himself, of course not. However, as you and I both know, Edi is
> extremely sly and slippery. It would be trivial for him to get help from
> Russia since Russia's only mission in life right now is to give me some
> small measure of payback. If Edi can also find a way to convince Cal to
> hold with what he's got, I'm in big, big trouble. Just one more reason
> that I need a friendly Turkey.
Having dealt extensively with the Russian, I don't think there's any
way he'll willingly work with Edi.
That said, I do think Bohemia is going to hit Munich this turn. He is
hoping for support from France, but I tend to doubt John will give it
to him.
Finally, I've thought about it, and you do have a friendly Turkey. :)
> >SWE-BAL
> >BER-PRU
> >MUN-SIL
> >(various other moves to fill gaps and cover)
>
> You make my point for me. All of the above is a precursor only to an
> attack on you. It telegraphs my intentions, takes a year just to get
> there, and, when I do, I have, at most, three whole armies to threaten you
> with. All the while, of course, I have to bend over, drop my drawers, and
> invite the delicate attentions of any and all who are at my rear. All of
> this just for the possiibility of fighting you for no gain in the east. I
> guess I must have done something to convince you that I'm a totally
> incompetent player if you truly believe that I am planning on that course
> of action...
No, it's more an overdeveloped sense of paranoia on my part.
When you state it like you do above, it clearly exposes my fears as
just that: paranoia.
OK, I accept your declaration of good intent. Thanks. :)
> >And in light of my earlier (perhaps erroneous) understanding
> >of your relationship with Edi
>
> I could be mistaken but I have always thought that my relationsship with
> Edi was the same as yours - that is, one of mutual benefit and convenience
> for so long as it was of *mutual* benefit and convenience. I'll stick with
> my friend and ally for so long as it is my best interests (short and long
> term) to do so. After that, well I'm no altruist and this is Dip, after all.
Sure.
What I meant was I thought you and Edi were hostile, not friendly.
> >Certainly such an attack would leave you somewhat open to a stab by
> >France, but nevertheless it was a concern of mine. You're doing well
> >in allaying that concern, though, and I thank you for it.
>
> Phew! I'm glad to hear it.
>
> >(At least, I'm hoping I'll thank you for it.) ;)
>
> heh...
>
> >Man, how differently people see things. Cal is hardly my puppet. In
> >fact, he's generally quite put out with me.
>
> I believe that but I also have considerable faith in your diplomatic
> skills. I don't think it's beyond the realm f possibility that you cold
> convince him to join you in a mutual attack on Austria if you were also
> able to convince France or I to attack the other. Then, when Austria was
> toast, you could swallow up Italy while France and I were entangled. You'd
> be in the catbird seat then.
Even then, there's no way I'd make anything but slow headway in
Balkans and Austria. I've gamed it out, and there's no way I can get
into a position to take 18 fast enough, even if you and France fight.
I wish that were not so, but we have to take the situation as it lies,
I suppose.
> >Pitt, I'm not going to solo.
>
> Surely not if I can help it, anway...;-)
Heh.
> >There's no chance in hell I'll be able
> >to fool the board and pull a fast one in that sense, and I doubt many
> >(I'd say "any," but then that would be belied by Mark's rather
> >perplexing decisions in some of this game)
>
> ;-)
>
>
> >No, I'm sincere when I say that I think GIT is the natural division.
> >I suppose it will depend on how alliance structures shake down. But
> >geographically, it seemed sensible.
>
> Not to me, I'm afraid. FGT seems the only viable option to me.
If we do it that way, we should be able to wrap this game up within a
few years.
OK. I'd be up for that. Perhaps we can start another one if we
finish this one rapidly enough.
> >As I said, no reasonable counter-proposal will be refused. If
> >assurances can be made to provide for my security against the "mighty
> >FG alliance," I have no objection to FGT.
> >But in such a case, how will we deal with Italy?
>
> You and France take him out. I feel quite certain that France would be
> very open to this idea if you were to propose it and show him that you were
> serious about it. I *know* that I'd be very receptive to a plan that had
> you and I taking out Austria.
OK. Let's plan it, then. How shall we move this season?
> >I'm all for logic and efficiency. My concern is based partly on the
> >above paragraph, though. If you and France are so solid, my fears of
> >attack by you increase.
>
> Right back at you with the "3-way is the best possible outcome" rationale.
> If we agree that a solo is not going to happen (and we *do* agree, believe
> me), a 3-way is the best possible option. No way I'm stupid enough to try
> for a 2-way with players of this caliber.
OK, you've sold me. I'm in.
> >Perhaps we will both be benefited by talking specifics. What do you
> >think we should do this upcoming turn, and then in fall?
>
> I'm going to move to cover myself against that Russian army and be in
> position to go after Austria if you choose to join me in the fall. Until I
> see something more concrete (in words and actions), I'm not willing to be
> more specific. By more concrete, I'm not talking about an outright attack
> on Edi but, rather, no hostile moves towards me and ensuring that your
> units are in place to attack Edi if you want to do so.
> Let me know what you think.
I think I'm up for it. I'll begin moving into position.
What about Berlin and Munich?
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to France:
John,
> I was not listening to disinfo, only observing your support for Germany's
> capture of St Pete. A friendly gesture, at least. That's why I don't
> understand your desire now to attack him.
> Looking at the board, a logical move would be for you to help Italy carve
> up Austria's remains, then see what beckons. Are you still committed to
> Austria or are you thinking about how to dissect him?
The latter.
> If Italy would leave you alone, you could do it by yourself, even.
> Without a hint or two about the eastern/Med situation, I can't reassess my
> relationship with Germany. So far, we've been working well together.
> That's all I know for sure.
OK. How about shooting for an FGT three-way?
I stab Edi, you stab Cal?
Interested?
Sultan Cho
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> Those moves sound pretty good and reasonable. I'll probably do some
> variant of the above. Blowing me out of ION is fine with me,
> especially with my defenses arrayed.
>
> I'm assuming you don't trust me enough to start moving west now.
> Which is a bit of a pity, since I think France is going to plow into
> you relatively soon. See below.
Even if I felt safe enough to move west now, I would need to get
another centre or two from Austria to have the forces to do so.
Catch-22.
> My impression is that it appears that FG is solid. This of course
> means we have to get our house in order ASAP or else we're going to
> see major problems. I am worried about the two of them going for a
> two-way, and I am also worried about Pitt going for a stab for a solo.
>
> What's your take?
I suspect you're right. If I was France, I probably would have hit
Italy LAST turn, but that would have left him fighting A/I/T, so
holding off was probably a wise move. He may actually be waiting for
Austria to fall far enough that he isn't a threat. Once you hit
Edi, that may signal France to go ahead and hit me. I'll have to
gamble that he'll wait for that and I'm safe this turn. After THAT,
I'll have to cover my self each turn til I turn on him.
> > Well, since both Mark and John have pointed out to me the precariousness
> > of Austria's position, I'd say Edi is VERY aware of the danger he's in
> > (especially after your build - I'd love to know how you explained THAT
> > one...grin). Do you think he'll make defensive moves against YOU? Or
> > will he decide to take his chances? I suspect the former...
>
> I hope the latter. ;)
Me too! What has Edi been saying to you? And have you heard from
France
at all? I've heard from neither Edi nor Pitt this turn.
> > I'm hoping to make a solo two-week tour through
> > Algonquin Provincial Park next September. Gonna do some
> > moose-watching...grin.
>
> Damn, sounds ambitious.
>
> I was never into the outdoors thing very much. I prefer my creature
> comforts. For exercise, I tend to play sports and work out.
Probably too ambitious, but I want to try. It'll be about sixty
miles or so and a bit of a grind for an overweight, out-of-shape
guy like myself. Ah well, it'll kill me or cure me, so they say...
grin.
Cal
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> This creates a small problem for me of credibility. My discussions with
> France the last few moves have always been predicated on first giving up
> the Ionian and then taking it back. I would have a real hard time
> explaining any reluctance on my part to hit Ion this turn.
> To get around this, may I suggest the following:
> F Ion-Alb;
> F Aeg-Gre;
> F Eas-Aeg.
> This will give you Eas to retreat to when Ion gets dislodged. It also
> has the secondary advantage of being a defensive move just in case you
> don't trust me...heh heh. You might want to combine these moves with:
> A Con-Rum,
> C By F Bla;
> F Mos-Ukr.
Those moves sound pretty good and reasonable. I'll probably do some
variant of the above. Blowing me out of ION is fine with me,
especially with my defenses arrayed.
I'm assuming you don't trust me enough to start moving west now.
Which is a bit of a pity, since I think France is going to plow into
you relatively soon. See below.
> > > With John, we try to plant the seeds of distrust and make it appear
> > > to him that I cannot be attacked.
>
> I've written to France and asked him how he feels about helping me help
> Russia to survive by supporting him into Munich. I've said I don't want
> Russia to be the first eliminated as he has been a valuable ally to me
> (s'true even if everybody else hates him...grin). My REAL goal is to
> sound out John's willingness to attack Germany. I'm still worried about
> a solid F/G.
My impression is that it appears that FG is solid. This of course
means we have to get our house in order ASAP or else we're going to
see major problems. I am worried about the two of them going for a
two-way, and I am also worried about Pitt going for a stab for a solo.
What's your take?
> Well, since both Mark and John have pointed out to me the precariousness
> of Austria's position, I'd say Edi is VERY aware of the danger he's in
> (especially after your build - I'd love to know how you explained THAT
> one...grin). Do you think he'll make defensive moves against YOU? Or
> will he decide to take his chances? I suspect the former...
I hope the latter. ;)
> Well, I took it out for an overnighter and I'll be buying it if the
> owner will make a modification or two for me. Right now, it's more of a
> day tripper canoe and I'm into the two-week backpack/portage kind of
> wilderness tour (Northern Ontario mostly). It needs a new "yoke" bar
> for easier carrying. I'm hoping to make a solo two-week tour through
> Algonquin Provincial Park next September. Gonna do some
> moose-watching...grin.
Damn, sounds ambitious.
I was never into the outdoors thing very much. I prefer my creature
comforts. For exercise, I tend to play sports and work out.
> > It's been hectic for me as well lately; sorry for my silence.
>
> No problem, I know how you lawyers are... laff.
Heh.
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Russia:
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
> What's the deal with you / us ? Do you need me to support you anywhere?
> if you're status quo vs A/T, I can do the GAL thing. If you're going
> to change horses (I'd consider an alliance with Hohn to eat Edi up and
> get you both into the "gains" column -- of course, we've both tried that
> before), I can still help you somehow, if you have ideas.
I couldn't talk France into supporting you to Munich, so if you could
hit Galicia, that'd be great with me.
> If you're after FG, I can also try something if you'd like. Maybe hit
> MUN, or go to SIL and keep them occupied..could even threaten WAR in an
> offhand way, I guess...until At come calling...
Nah, I'd sooner you torment Edi... :)
> What have you heard from the others? As a 1-center "minilith," I get
> little-to-no mail anymore, as noted before. Has France offered you more
> help? has the Hun mentioned anything about me, or his plans? Any good
> news from Aus or Tur? I imagine Edi's sweating bullets, and may be
> offeringyou the world now (-grin-). Like I said, though, make sure A/T
> aren't trying to spoof you and break up the F/I wall, now that it's set
> up. I really expect Turkey to be writing you hot and heavy; has he?
Yup, which is more than I can say for Edi, whom I've NOT heard from.
Hohn is talking about hitting Edi this turn ("top secret: by the way,
although it IS pretty obvious) and it seems likely. It's certainly
in his best interest. Last time I thought that, he really did have a
choice as who to ally with. His options are much more limited this
time.
> Any news from our ol' buddy England? Ever since the HEL/MUn fiasco,
> we've had little discussions (understandable, I guess).
Nada. He hasn't written me for a while.
> Anyway, fill in your soon-to-die ally with any advice, news from the
> board, or recommendations from you. I can go just about anywhere with
> BOH, so offer it up. After all, even when it goes somewhere, it really
> will go "nowhere."
Like I said, if you can hit Galicia, that'd be fine. If by some fluke
you get it, I'll do my best to get you into a centre in the Fall.
Cal
Private message from France to Germany:
Pitt, looking at the board, I note that we could kill the Russian army this
turn with tyr s mun-boh, ber-sil. It sure would simplify matters.
What do you think?
John
Live, from Russian-controlled Bohemia, it's time for the weekly talk
show, "Interview with a Vampire." As you know, each week we try and
find a local Balkan bloodsucker to discuss matters of regional
importance. Today's guest is that noted chameleon and Master of Fluff,
Transylvania's Own, Edvard BirSauron (cheers and applause resonate).
Host (H): Welcome, Edi. Why are you looking over your shoulder, and
what's that sound?
E: Glad to be here. Oh, the sound seems to be...ah...geez, it sounds
like someone's sharpening a knife on a whetting stone. Hey, what's
that lawyer doing in the audience?!
H: Well, anyway, BirSauron, welcome again to the show. As the regional
vampire, what's been happening in your *neck* (haw haw!) of the woods?
E: Oh, much excitement. Let's see...I write a lot of press about dark
horses and gloomy fog, and that always seems to get people excited. And
don't forget my reams of vacuous press. To misquote Sir Winston
Churchill, "Never in the annals of gaming has so little been said in so
many pages by so untruthful an individual." I also make a lot of phone
calls, and I'm pretty good at telling my neighbors about bonehead moves
they make, all the while offering nothing constructive in return. Oh,
did I mention a lot of fluff in my move proposals for (chuckle)
"allies?"
H: Uh, yeah, BeerMan, you did. But let's move on. What does the
future hold for your nation?
E: I envision everything will change when we eliminate the pesky
Russian in Bohemia. As you know, Tsar Faz has been a pain-in-the-NECK
ever since the mutual stab we pulled on each other in 1902. I managed
to "lie low" (in the coffin during daylight) and let him take the rap
for stabs and non-supports of Turkey and England, and have managed to
rule the night. And let's not forget the perpetual lying schtick that
A, T and G have been giving him. Yep, in a couple more turns our
combined half-dozen units from three nations will finally eradicate the
little cockraoch, and I'm sure Austrian fortunes will only rise after
that. Why, I'm working a half-dozen deals with I, F, G, E and even guys
who haven't done a game-start yet. You just watch. I'll rise from the
grave with even more force soon -- they don't call me the Teflon Count
for nothing.
H: But what of your neighbors? With Tsar Faz but a memory, who's next
on your hit parade?
E: Well, I've done my usual thorough PsychoProfile checks, estimated
projected gains in synch with the lunar cycle, and have asked my Dark
LordUnderlings for advice. And I'm sure we'll have that answer in a few
mo....((yells off-stage)) "Hey, hey!, stop grinding that blade on the
whetting stone!" Ok, where was I?
H: We were discussing future Austrian plans.
E: Oh yes. Well, never mind! Suffice it to say that I've offered
everything to everyone, and I'm sure that in saying nothing, I've said
everything. And already the offers are flowing in. Yep; just waitin'
on the best one, is all. As the old song says, "The future's so bright,
I gotta wear shades." But I would say that -- I'm a vampire (yuk yuk)!
((audience chuckles absentmindedly))
H: Mmm-hmmm. Would you mind if we interviewed your fellow bloodsucker
and game honcho, Hohn Cho?
E: ((fidgets)) Well, sure. Not a problem. Well, actually, it is a
problem. Ever since the Elvis Presley Imitator took his bad nose job to
small claims court, Hohn's been, ah, busy. I'm afraid he's out of
pocket, I haven't talked to him since 1902.
H: Ok, let's skip Hohn. Final question. if you could be King of the
Board for a day, what would you do?
E: Oh, easy question! I'd give peace and free centers to all. I'd
re-ally with Russia and Italy, and invade Germany, like I promised in
Winter 1900. And I'd tell Pitt to lay off England and Russia; he's such
a "pitt-stol." And then we'd end the game with a 7-way and write great
press about it afterwards.
H: Ah, Edi, your nose is growing awfully huge. Folks, that's all the
time we have. Tune in again next week, when "Interview with a Vampire"
profiles Count Armm-Pitt of Germany, sharing the chair with his siamese
twin, "John the Holder" of France. Should be a hum-dinger of a show.
Private message from Master to Russia:
After that last broadcast, one player sent another player a message.
I can't tell you ANYTHING about it except that it really made me
bust a gut. If in the next couple weeks, you're out of the game,
remind me and I just HAVE to share it with you.
Boob
Private message from France to Russia:
Okay, gents. Thanks for your patience. Let's return to Plan A. My great
worry was that I would face combined TI attack. Everything pointed that
way a day or two ago. Now, I think AT were setting I up for a fall. I
might see Italy move west, but if he does, he's meat, because AT are still
joined at the hip.
Let's go: boh-mun, nth-hel. Heck, if we fail, it's only a game.
Napolean IV
Private message from France to Italy:
The drumbeat from AT continues. Anyway, re tactics, I'd prefer to support
Tun-Ion than to send my fleet that far east.
FYI, AT are targeting Trieste, or so they tell me. Could be misdirection
intended for you, but I don't think so.
John
Private message from England to Russia:
Nap, Faz,
>Okay, gents. Thanks for your patience. Let's return to Plan A. My great
>worry was that I would face combined TI attack. Everything pointed that
>way a day or two ago. Now, I think AT were setting I up for a fall. I
>might see Italy move west, but if he does, he's meat, because AT are still
>joined at the hip.
Coulda told you that. If Italy sails west with Turkey in the Ionian, well,
he deserves his fate. It's a dumb thing to do.
>Let's go: boh-mun, nth-hel.
Roger.
> Heck, if we fail, it's only a game.
I know I've been singing that song for a while....
(Faz)
>I had *such* faith in Nappy IV that I never changed my original orders.
I did. I'm in my 'order following' mode.
>Note my disinformation broadcast message, saving the last line to
>disparage you, John, and thus keep us in 'deep cover.' Hopefully it
>will enrage Edi and convince them I'm headed eastward...cackle.
They know you too well. They'll all ignore it.
:-)
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Russia to Master:
Jim,
Thanks for the G-2. I'm hoping it was taken in fun (however acerbic my
words may have seemed)? I certainly was trying to lampoon my foes, but
decently. Yes, please do share it with me when there's the proper time.
Did it have enough innuendo and overt abuse for your tastes?
Faz
>----------
>From: USIN Diplomacy Judge[SMTP:[email protected]]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 1997 11:14 AM
>To: Fassio, M. MAJ SOC
>Subject: Diplomacy notice: ghodstoo
>
> News about USIN can be found at
> http://kleiman.indianapolis.in.us/usin.htm
>
> Game creation has been disabled. USIN has had some
> reliability problems, so until it is settled down...
>
> All unmoderated games will be removed.
> Judge keeper is [email protected].
> Judge address is [email protected]
>
>Message from [email protected] as Master to Russia in 'ghodstoo':
>
>
>After that last broadcast, one player sent another player a message.
>I can't tell you ANYTHING about it except that it really made me
>bust a gut. If in the next couple weeks, you're out of the game,
>remind me and I just HAVE to share it with you.
>
>Boob
>
Private message from Russia to France:
I had *such* faith in Nappy IV that I never changed my original orders.
Short of a massive spoof of the board by us all, I think this thinbg
might just work! Three huzzahs to you both, and let's see what
happens.
Note my disinformation broadcast message, saving the last line to
disparage you, John, and thus keep us in 'deep cover.' Hopefully it
will enrage Edi and convince them I'm headed eastward...cackle.
Tsar Faz
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Even if I felt safe enough to move west now, I would need to get
> another centre or two from Austria to have the forces to do so.
> Catch-22.
You could do that with land forces while your navy starts going west?
> I suspect you're right. If I was France, I probably would have hit
> Italy LAST turn, but that would have left him fighting A/I/T, so
> holding off was probably a wise move. He may actually be waiting for
> Austria to fall far enough that he isn't a threat. Once you hit
> Edi, that may signal France to go ahead and hit me. I'll have to
> gamble that he'll wait for that and I'm safe this turn. After THAT,
> I'll have to cover my self each turn til I turn on him.
OK.
> Me too! What has Edi been saying to you? And have you heard from
> France
> at all? I've heard from neither Edi nor Pitt this turn.
I've been corresponding with Pitt and Edi a good amount. Not a lot
from John.
I think Edi is still with me. Pitt claims friendship, but I am
dubious.
> > I was never into the outdoors thing very much. I prefer my creature
> > comforts. For exercise, I tend to play sports and work out.
>
> Probably too ambitious, but I want to try. It'll be about sixty
> miles or so and a bit of a grind for an overweight, out-of-shape
> guy like myself. Ah well, it'll kill me or cure me, so they say...
> grin.
Heh.
OK, so I'm tapping Albania and Serbia, and moving into position.
Good luck!
Hohn
Private message from Master to Turkey:
I have not been asked for a further extension to the deadline, thus
would Pitt please submit his orders in "good order" at a time of his
earliest convenience? Thanks to all for their patience.
Jim
Your Ever-suffering GM
Private message from Turkey to Master:
Jim,
God_damn_, I love it when a plan comes together!
See, it's times like this when I wonder where I'd be if I'd been able
to conduct full negotiations each and ev