| Press for Fall of 1907 in pouchtoo |
Movement
Message from England to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Geeez, you guys have been awfully silent lately. John I understand, but Manus? Something going on I'm not aware of? Any thoughts on tactics for this turn? John, what do you want to do about Munich? Obviously, you can't hold BOTH Berlin and Munich. Any other thoughts on potential moves? Manus, are you prepared to use you army in Spain to defend Marseilles if Russia retreats (moves) to Burgandy? I'm going to convoy an army to Picardy to defend Paris. Comments? Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Remember this? Are you thinking about (or working on) it? >So, here's my new idea. >If you take Munich and I retake Berlin, then the net is a transfer of >Munich from Austria to you, which is just what I want. As things stand, you >can do this without at all crossing Austria 'out loud', so to speak. >Because of the way I'd have to use my forces to retake Berlin, you'd easily >get Sweden -- I know, you'll very likely get it anyway, but this would make >it a sure thing. So you'd add Mun and Swe that way. > >Now the question is, if that's how things go, and if I retreat Mun-Tyo, is >that going to be enough for you? Will you change tacks next year? Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria and England in
'pouchtoo': Just re-read my last message. I'm not OD'ing. The seven pills were not all the same thing, and three of them were vitamins. Manus
Message from Italy to England and Austria in
'pouchtoo': > Geeez, you guys have been awfully silent lately. John I understand, but > Manus? > > Something going on I'm not aware of? > Yes. I've been horribly ill. I'm in the office today trying to see how long I can last. I apologize for the silence, but I've been struggling with something. I took no less than seven pills this morning hoping it will keep the pain at this (so-far today) manageable level. I will hope to pull up a map and take a look at things. Manus
Message from Austria to England and Italy in
'pouchtoo': My net connections are just stabilizing and that has backed up my work load amazingly. That and I've been swamped with the legal ramifications of changing my name to John (<: I'll try to look at things over the weekend and send out some ideas on Monday. Dave > > Geeez, you guys have been awfully silent lately. John I understand, but > Manus? > > Something going on I'm not aware of? > > Any thoughts on tactics for this turn? John, what do you want to do about > Munich? Obviously, you can't hold BOTH Berlin and Munich. Any other > thoughts on potential moves? > > Manus, are you prepared to use you army in Spain to defend Marseilles if > Russia retreats (moves) to Burgandy? I'm going to convoy an army to Picardy > to defend Paris. > > Comments? > > Cal >
Message from England to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': >Message from [email protected] as Austria to England and Italy in >'pouchtoo': > > >My net connections are just stabilizing and that has backed up my work >load amazingly. That and I've been swamped with the legal ramifications >of changing my name to John (<: Doh! Guess I'm just mourning the passing of our beloved German friend... (that and not getting enough sleep) Cal
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Remember this? I remember it. In fact, I sent you a moderately long reply to it. You didn't get it? I can't seem to find my copy, meaning perhaps it never got sent out? >Are you thinking about (or working on) it? Have been. Am. Just trying to get Dave (backlogged at work due to e-mail problems) or Manus (very, very ill the last week or so) to talk to me has been problematic. They have, as of today, checked in, but both had, "Wait til I get to the map" comments. >>So, here's my new idea. >>If you take Munich and I retake Berlin, then the net is a transfer of >>Munich from Austria to you, which is just what I want. As things stand, you >>can do this without at all crossing Austria 'out loud', so to speak. >>Because of the way I'd have to use my forces to retake Berlin, you'd easily >>get Sweden -- I know, you'll very likely get it anyway, but this would make >>it a sure thing. So you'd add Mun and Swe that way. >> >>Now the question is, if that's how things go, and if I retreat Mun-Tyo, is >>that going to be enough for you? Will you change tacks next year? The answer I sent was, yes, I will. I did however, add a caveat that, should this result in a board wide "Get England" alliance (which I suspect, in this paranoid heart o' mine, is what you're REALLY trying to achieve in order to deflect unwanted attention from you... heh heh, you devil...), then all bets will be off and I will make my gains wherever I can. Until that time, however, I will confine my movements to Germany, France & the Med. Fair enough? Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
No, I never got the (alleged!) longish reply. The caveat about what you'll do if Manus and Dave react to your entering the Med. by ganging up on you (you're REALLY worried about that?) is ok by me. The rest of it sounds, well, hm. It kind of sounds like you're trying to avoid saying something.... Hm. When you say you'll confine your activities to "Germany, France, and the Med", what are you thinking about in Germany? That's the only hitch in our current entente, by the way. Aside from that, I'm quite pleased. You'll gang up hard on Sweden, you'll take Munich, I'll survive ok, maybe one of us will have a shot at winning the game. Tsar J (resend that long message if you find a copy)
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >The rest of it sounds, well, hm. It kind of sounds like you're trying to >avoid saying something.... Nice to know it isn't just ME with the paranoid tendencies. >When you say you'll confine your activities to "Germany, France, and the >Med", what are you thinking about in Germany? Status quo. That is, statis quo after I take Munich and you take Berlin. :-) >That's the only hitch in our current entente, by the way. Aside from that, >I'm quite pleased. You'll gang up hard on Sweden, you'll take Munich, I'll >survive ok, maybe one of us will have a shot at winning the game. Sounds good. Cal PS: And if it sounds like I'm leaving anything out, it's cuz I'm tired (drove for 11 hours today...) and I want to go to bed. q:-)
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Ok, cool! Sorry for my paranoia. I think it's that I've felt things going badly for a long time (only a two or three game seasons, but months and months of real time, seems like), and now suddenly this is so easy. Feels like it must be 'too easy'. So now I'll have a whole week to dream up bizarre ulterior motives for you. Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Ok, cool! > >Sorry for my paranoia. I think it's that I've felt things going badly for a >long time (only a two or three game seasons, but months and months of real >time, seems like), and now suddenly this is so easy. Feels like it must be >'too easy'. > > >So now I'll have a whole week to dream up bizarre ulterior motives for you. If it will help, I could maintain an ominous silence for a week. ;) Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Every once in a while, send me a note saying something like, "Now technically speaking, I guess Ukraine isn't part of Germany, right?" Tsar J
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
Sorry to take so long, life's been getting in the way. Yuck, this really doesn't look pretty. Jamie out guessed me this turn. Jamie has a guaranteed attack on Ber if he wants it: Bal - Ber, Pru s Bal - Ber, Mun - Kie. His retreat to Pru seems to indicate that this is what is on his mind. So, my best guess for this turn is: Hel - Den, Den - Bal, Nwy - Swe, Ska s Nwy - Swe, Nwg - Nwy Ruh s Ber - Mun, Kie s Ber - Mun, Lon - Pic, Eng C Lon - Pic Ber - Mun. Kie is safe as Bal and Mun are both attacked and that should net you Den and Swe while trading Mun and Ber back for a net loss for Jamie. Thoughts? Dave
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Manus, Hope you're feeling better. Sorry to take so long to get back to you, life keeps getting in the way. About the best I can see to do is to have Syr support Smy and Ion go to Aeg. I can't see anyway that he's not going to have Bul s Aeg to Gre, but I also expect Ser s Bud - Tri is likely so I think I may have to use Gre to attack Ser. Any thoughts or suggestions you have would be appreciated. Dave
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': >Sorry to take so long, life's been getting in the way. Yeah, it does do that, neh? :) >Jamie has a guaranteed attack on Ber if he wants it: Bal - Ber, >Pru s Bal - Ber, Mun - Kie. His retreat to Pru seems to indicate >that this is what is on his mind. That's my thinking as well. >So, my best guess for this turn is: > >Hel - Den, Den - Bal, Nwy - Swe, Ska s Nwy - Swe, Nwg - Nwy >Ruh s Ber - Mun, Kie s Ber - Mun, Lon - Pic, Eng C Lon - Pic > >Ber - Mun. > >Kie is safe as Bal and Mun are both attacked and that should >net you Den and Swe while trading Mun and Ber back for a net >loss for Jamie. >Thoughts? Yeah, this doesn't guarantee me Sweden. What if he does F Swe-Nwy, s by A Stp? I'll have a counter-proposal for you later. Cal
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
How's it going? Still sick? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
After this coming season, Cal will begin to move into the Med, or anyway try. Whether you're going to continue to support Austria or not, *please* be prepared for Cal's shift. I don't understand your position -- are you just going to insist on a 4-way draw, come what may? -- but in any case, it's going to be curtains if you can't hold on to the Med. Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hey, stop rolling your eyes so loudly, I can hear you all the way down here! Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Hey, stop rolling your eyes so loudly, I can hear you all the way down here! The first e-mail game I ever played in, I was involved with six players of the "carebear" variety. I was so disgusted by this, I threatened to prolong the deadlines for as long as possible with "set wait" orders. I was informed by the GM in no uncertain terms that this was considered highly unethical behaviour in e-mail Dip and I'd be turfed from the game if I tried it. Not wanting to buck the locals on an ethics question, I complied. Little did I know that this was obviously not a universal "ethic".... Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>The first e-mail game I ever played in, I was involved with six players of >the "carebear" variety. I was so disgusted by this, I threatened to prolong >the deadlines for as long as possible with "set wait" orders. I was >informed by the GM in no uncertain terms that this was considered highly >unethical behaviour in e-mail Dip and I'd be turfed from the game if I >tried it. In my opinion, threatening to stretch out the game with WAITs is legal and should have been allowed, though it was not exactly courteous. You weren't threatening to be *late*, after all. But going over every deadline is different, that's against the rules. Manus doesn't mean to be cheating, and I guess he was sick, but still. I think this is damaging his stellar reputation. Rick is in a difficult position because this is an exhibition game. I know he has warned and reprimanded Manus a couple of times, but it's a very tough call to throw someone out at this stage of the game under these circumstances. In an ordinary game, I think he would have been tossed by now. I wonder whether we (including Dave) can eject him ourselves, so to speak.... I guess not. Too bad. Jamie
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, Jamie. I am (as you know) over that e-mail virus you gave me, and the number of other things I'm catching up on kept me from responding to your offer of support into Smyrna and Greece. I had hoped to get to private press before the deadline, but as we all saw, it didn't happen. So I moved in the current vein. However, my head was pretty clear while looking at the map this time and I am able to finally now state with a bit more confidence what my longer-term plans are (assuming you're interested in the off-and-on alliance that you urge is necessary and I keep politely postponing). If we can swing it so that next Fall I get both Smyrna and Greece, say, I think the game will simplify on a pretty good schedule. I would also like assurance from you that you will somehow reduce your naval forces in the Med. If Cal stays out of MAO (according to what he told me about the moves just about to go through, he still is doing so so far) through Spring, the builds I get from two new SC's next year (if you agree to this Smy+Gre plan) will give me the stuff I need to block Gibraltar and take back Venice. I know you think this is too slow, but that's what I see when I look at a map, so I'd like to discuss it with you. Of course, you could just pass this to Dave to try and split us apart that way, but I think it is more to your advantage to discuss a split with me than with him. Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal: Again, my apologies. Slower than postal. Wow. Knowing what I know of postal (which isn't much) I presume this is artistic license, but perhaps not. My heartfelt apologies no matter what. Anyway, to long-delayed business. Since I didn't get a chance to develop any plans in private press, I took your mention of a defense of Marseilles to heart. We both should be able to keep France safe from a wandering Russian. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave: Jamie keeps pressing me to toss you overboard and stop up the Med. I'm currently trying to parlay this into some false promises that might keep him hoodwinked. I'll keep you posted, but I'm surprised he's still talking to me after your Smyrna take. Gotta say he continues to explore all diplomatic avenues, I suppose. I would like to stop up the Med, but have no forces to do so. Accordingly, I must join you in the "if Cal does X or Y, I will toss Jamie the game" pledge. Unfortunately, Cal is getting into a more and more powerful position, and Jamie a bit less (at least up north) so your own toss-game tactic isn't enough to keep Cal in line anymore, I don't think. But you and I both could probably still give Jamie the game if we needed to. If you don't mind maybe being the guy to subtly mention this to Cal (without saying that I asked you to, etc., etc.). Basically, I'm asking that you remind him that currently "X or Y" includes his putting a fleet into MAO (and anything else you want to add), and while doing so, just drop and "and Italy will too" in there when you talk about the consequences. Much obliged on that count. In other news, since I didn't get to partial press before the deadline, I just took your suggestions for moves in the east. I'm now regretting Nap-ION a bit (should maybe have gone to TYS so my forces aren't so split apart, but if Cal stays out of my hair it'll be okay. And Jamie really irritated my by putting a third fleet in down here, so he's forcing stuff like Nap-ION despite all his pleading that I send my forces west. Anyway, I'll go back and stand in the corner some more now. Tardy Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
So, obviously, you don't want my support into Greece or Smyrna, right? I think after this season we'll probably have one more season in which we have any genuine choices at all. That's my prediction, anyway. We'll see. Tsar J
Retreat
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
I think it's too late for that. I think it has to be a 4-way now. If you really believe that Cal is going to stay out of the Med, then I think you must not be paying attention. He's coming now, you watch. Why would he wait? We can wait and see what Dave removes, I guess, but I think he's going to have a strong enough position that he could support Cal over the stalemate line if we attack him. Maybe if we could take him down to just two units that would be good enough. Hm. And Cal has a pretty small land force, I don't think he's going to cross into Tyo or Boh right away. Well, it's not out of the question, your plan. Hmmmmmmmmm. I should decide right away, because I could retreat Mun-Bur if it's going to be a 3-way alliance against Cal, or to Tyo if we're going to try to eliminate Austria instead. I'd better get to work. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
I'm pretty worried. You moved your fleets the wrong way. Damn, you know, the obvious move for you was Spa-Por, Wes-MAO, just trying to keep Cal out of the MAO, but in fact you would have gotten into MAO yourself! But anyway, Cal is going to come to the Med., and I don't think you can defend Marseilles, defend Spain, and keep him out of the warm water. You might, if you're lucky and commit completely that way. So I'm not going to bother with any analysis for now. You have to tell me: are you willing to move your fleets west now as hard and fast as you can? Under what circumstances will you do that? Because if you don't do it now, Cal will win. Manus, I'm *sure* you can see this, can't you? I know you don't have your head completely in the game, but please do take a few minutes. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Howdy there Tsar. Well, England does seem to be making his move to some degree. I think he figured he'd grab Munich from me without going to the MAO and so sending Manus ballistic. I expect he'll be rolling in next turn though. Personally, my position is getting rather desperate as you know. I can't just keep trying to hang on because you are going to roll over me if I do. Do you have any suggestions you'd like to try out, or is it just time for me to tell Cal that an English win is the best I can hope for and I'll do whatever I can to achieve it? I don't know how much I can do towards that, but I expect I can find a few ways to help him out. I don't really see any other options as long as you are going to continue the attack in the south. By my count, England will have 16 with German/France/England/Iberia/Scandinavia and the Lowlands. Stp, Tunis, Rom, Nap offer fairly good chances for the remaining two. I don't see any way you are going to win a race to those Italian centers. Can we negotiate a truce or not? Kaiser Dave
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
You didn't have to tell me any of that, you know. Yeah, I told Cal I was going to take Berlin, so he might as well take Munich. His moves were no surprise to me either. As to the rest: hang on, I'm still thinking. :-) Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Believe me, I agonized about moving my fleets the "wrong way" before I did it. In the end, it was the fact that you had three fleets over there that pushed me into Nap-ION in preference to Nap-TYS. As I mentioned to you, gaining some SC's by the end of this year is what my next goal isd. In Fall, hoping for a move like Syr-Smy, AEG-Gre, ION-Tun, and set up a Gibraltar line that next year. I'll of course look at the board, but I think this is not too little too late. I could not move WES-MAO because Cal had told me what his fleets were up to. I, a five unit power more than kind of spread out, could not afford to sail into the MAO and bring the wrath of Cal down on me. Not with you maybe in Burgundy and me giving him reason to find common cause with you again. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
For some reason you still think that I have winning chances. Several seasons ago I faced the reality that I can only get a draw. The only question is whether it will be three or four ways. If you're going to move to Greece, I think we have to settle for a 4-way draw. Because you're not going to have enough force to stop Cal, so we'll have to have Dave help with the stalemate line. It seems to me that about the only chance we could have to eliminate Dave and get a three way is to have you *appear* to be staying on his side. So something like this: Get Dave to debuild his fleet. You move to Smyrna, to 'cover' it against my potential incursion. Then in the Fall, I move to Smyrna and you move to Con. In the mean time, I knock out another of Dave's centers, leaving him with three units. You move your other fleet west, and build another one, praying that you'll get lucky and Cal won't take Spa or Mar. I retreat to Tyrolia this season. If Dave covers Venice, you'll just have to leave Rome wide open. Next year (1909), you go from Con-Bul, then Bul-Gre, getting another build. Most likely Cal takes Spa or Mar, but maybe you get lucky again; if you do, you build A Rom. If you don't, we then *convoy* your army from Gre to Nap, using my fleet. Then we try to finish Dave, knocking him out of Venice, while you cover with Nap-Rom. Now this could work. But maybe not. Dave might spend his last few seasons supporting Cal across the stalemate line, leaving him in Tyrolia and Galicia, say. If so, Cal wins the game. It's hard to quantify the chances. I think what makes it worth thinking about is that Cal may not quite be in the right mood to go charging as hard as he can over the line. He doesn't have a whole lot of armies, I don't think he could charge risk-free, and I'm hoping he would be conservative and just make sure nobody took Munich or Berlin (which he'll easily take next year, by the way). I don't know. It's a very close call. One thing that makes me want to try it is that this is an exhibition game, and it would be pretty exciting to watch. One thing that makes me want to stick with a 4-way is that Dave has played very well and deserves a draw share much more than Cal deserves a solo! If you had another fleet in Wes right now, I'd definitely want to go for it. As things stand, it's very risky. What do you think? Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
What you describe seems close enough to what I was thinking that I think we may have a plan here. I know you're none too happy with the way I pushed the envelope to get us where we are. Partrially it is due to the same considerations you mentioned -- Dave has played well enough to deserve better; if I eliminate him now, is this inviting both you and Cal in for spaghetti, etc., etc. However, despite your none-too-happiness, I'm glad you see at least a few positives for playing on the edge like this. I just couldn't bring myself to do anything earlier while, knowing what I knew of board dynamics, still thinking I was acting in the best interests of Italy. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I suppose that was as good as we could expect. You're only losing one center while I thought it would be two, and this is only because Cal (an ally, we hope) has kicked Jamie out of Munich). For your disband, it looks like Smyrna is the obvious choice, and I will vocer it with Syria and Smyrna. I can make sure to take it in the Spring, and then back off perhaps in Fall so it stays yours, sending my second unit in to bounce Jamie out. There's one idea. Another involves me attacking Greece this Spring and only using one unit (my Syrian army) to cover the vacant Smyrna. This too, guarantees that it stays out of Russian hands. You were right that his fleet build was a mistake. And fortunately, he doesn't have too good a prospects of building any time in the future to rectify the mistake. I suppose we need to start seriously worrying about Cal, now. Jamie is now talking the return of the AIR alliance. Thing is, I remember how the first one ended..... Hmmm..... Manus
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Only one? Oh yeah, I own Venice. Forgot about that, I thought it was two. It's hard to say what the intent was with Munich. I had written cal asking for support there, but with the judge down I don't know if he ever got it. On the other hand, I do think it is time we worried about him. He is in a better position than Jamie to go for the win, but of course there is the little matter of past history. I've already sent out feelers to Jamie. The issue is if he will back off or not. I need some breathing room from him for anything to work, and that's hard with the units he's committed to the south. I'll try to do some thinking about it over the weekend. > Well, I suppose that was as good as we could expect. You're only losing one > center while I thought it would be two, and this is only because Cal (an > ally, we hope) has kicked Jamie out of Munich). > > For your disband, it looks like Smyrna is the obvious choice, and I will > vocer it with Syria and Smyrna. I can make sure to take it in the Spring, and > then back off perhaps in Fall so it stays yours, sending my second unit in > to bounce Jamie out. There's one idea. > > Another involves me attacking Greece this Spring and only using one unit > (my Syrian army) to cover the vacant Smyrna. This too, guarantees that it > stays out of Russian hands. You were right that his fleet build was a > mistake. And fortunately, he doesn't have too good a prospects of > building any time in the future to rectify the mistake. > > I suppose we need to start seriously worrying about Cal, now. Jamie is > now talking the return of the AIR alliance. Thing is, I remember how the > first one ended..... Hmmm..... > > Manus >
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
I also wonder what Jamie's going to do with his retreat.... Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >In my opinion, threatening to stretch out the game with WAITs is legal and >should have been allowed, though it was not exactly courteous. You weren't >threatening to be *late*, after all. I thought so, but I was the new kid on the block, soooo... >But going over every deadline is different, that's against the rules. Manus >doesn't mean to be cheating, and I guess he was sick, but still. I think >this is damaging his stellar reputation. >Rick is in a difficult position because this is an exhibition game. I know >he has warned and reprimanded Manus a couple of times, but it's a very >tough call to throw someone out at this stage of the game under these >circumstances. In an ordinary game, I think he would have been tossed by >now. It's good to know that this sort of behaviour isn't the norm. >I wonder whether we (including Dave) can eject him ourselves, so to >speak.... I guess not. Too bad. Well, I wouldn't go THAT far (and I don't think you're really serious either), but it would be nice if he would simply get the damn orders in on time. I can deal with a silent ally/enemy, but these game delays are a bother (he said mildly). Cal
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Cal: > >Again, my apologies. Slower than postal. Wow. Knowing what I >know of postal (which isn't much) I presume this is artistic >license, but perhaps not. My heartfelt apologies no matter what. Games in the 70s (when men were men, Dippers were Dippers and Postal Employees knew what the meaning of the word "service" was) ran faster than this game is running. Not now so I suppose some poetic licence was used. >Anyway, to long-delayed business. Since I didn't get a chance >to develop any plans in private press, I took your mention of a >defense of Marseilles to heart. We both should be able to keep >France safe from a wandering Russian. I have a feeling Jamie will feel he can do more damage by retreating to Tyrolia. He'd be right too... sigh. Sure you don't want to change your mind about some help in the Med? You'll have to eventually, I suspect. Cal
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Games in the 70s (when men were men, Dippers were Dippers and > Postal Employees knew what the meaning of the word "service" was) > ran faster than this game is running. Not now so I suppose some poetic > licence was used. > :-) Well, once more, please accept my apologies. Much of the problem with the speed of this game has been me, and I do feel bad about it. > I have a feeling Jamie will feel he can do more damage by retreating > to Tyrolia. He'd be right too... sigh. > I agree with you. I think his retreat is a foregone conclusion. > Sure you don't want to change your mind about some help in the Med? > You'll have to eventually, I suspect. > You're scaring me with talk like that.... I'll take a look at things, I suyppose, but for now, it seems imperative to me that MAO be kept empty. We both have business in the east and keeping the Med status quo is working for me so far. Manus
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Well, at least Jamie took a fairly big northern hit anyway. I lost my game records when my computer crashed last month, so I have no idea who owns what. What are you looking like for builds/removals this turn? I'm sorry about Munich, but when I received virtually no communications from either of my allies, even after your e-mail service and Manus's health returned, I decided to go it alone tactically. If you end up able to keep your army (ex of Berlin) on the board, we'll try to make sure it gets back in there in the Spring. Guess we'll wait for retreats and adjustments before discussing tactics for next season. Cal
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': >> I have a feeling Jamie will feel he can do more damage by retreating >> to Tyrolia. He'd be right too... sigh. >> >I agree with you. I think his retreat is a foregone conclusion. Any ideas on how to deal with it? >> Sure you don't want to change your mind about some help in the Med? >> You'll have to eventually, I suspect. >> >You're scaring me with talk like that.... I'll take a look at things, >I suyppose, but for now, it seems imperative to me that MAO be kept >empty. We both have business in the east and keeping the Med status quo >is working for me so far. Didn't mean to alarm you and I will follow our agreement about leaving the Mid open. I was simply getting at the fact that, although I'm making decent headway against Russia in the north, he seems to be keeping pace in the south. Tyrolia is a bad place for him to be as it's the key to cracking the Italian peninsula. That would be a bad thing for all concerned (at least for us powers of Good), but I'll leave the power of decision making (as regards any English units in the Mid/Med) in your hands. Fair enough? Cal
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Well, at least Jamie took a fairly big northern hit anyway. I lost my game > records when my computer crashed last month, so I have no idea who owns > what. What are you looking like for builds/removals this turn? > I'm going to have to remove one. Not too bad all things considered. > I'm sorry about Munich, but when I received virtually no communications from > either of my allies, even after your e-mail service and Manus's health > returned, I decided to go it alone tactically. If you end up able to keep > your army (ex of Berlin) on the board, we'll try to make sure it gets back > in there in the Spring. > That was an unfortunate side effect of the judge being down. I sent you several messages asking for your support to Munich, which would have kept my center count even, but as with the orders, they apparently got tossed into the bit bucket and never made it to you. I didn't know that you hadn't received them until well after the deadline. > Guess we'll wait for retreats and adjustments before discussing tactics for > next season. > > Cal > Ayup. Enjoy your trip, I envy you. I've done some canoeing in northern Canada and enjoyed it immensely. I could really use a break like that, although I think I'm going to have to wait until the kids are bit older for an extended trip (they're 4 and 2 now). I am hoping to go camping this weekend for at least some break. Dave
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Yeah, but you aren't helping me. I have to decide whether to go for the 3-way or not. Dave has very pointedly and specifically told me that he'll begin throwing the game to Cal now unless we come to terms. At the moment, I am favoring the 4-way. I think Dave can carry out his threat, or at least have a very good chance of doing it. Do you have a view about this? Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Yeah, but you aren't helping me. > No? Well, I have mailed both parties to best implement our tentative plan. > I have to decide whether to go for the 3-way or not. Dave has very > pointedly and specifically told me that he'll begin throwing the game to > Cal now unless we come to terms. > Obviously, I (like you) want a fthree-way. Maybe even more than you do, because if we settle for a four-way, I'll take the blame for not allowing a three. That said, however.... > At the moment, I am favoring the 4-way. I think Dave can carry out his > threat, or at least have a very good chance of doing it. > > Do you have a view about this? > If you don't think we can kick Dave out quickly enough anymore (my fault), then a four way it will have to be. I'll pull up a map later today (actually, probably this evening) and see if I can see any sure way to pare the survivor count down. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>No? Well, I have mailed both parties to best implement our tentative plan. You told Cal???? (Or do I misunderstand you here?) Hm. I guess I wouldn't have done that. But it *might* work out. I suppose Cal might figure that it's either everybody blocking him, or Dave eliminated first, and Cal *might* stay away from the stalemate line. >Obviously, I (like you) want a fthree-way. Maybe even more than you do, >because >if we settle for a four-way, I'll take the blame for not allowing a three. I think there will be plenty of blame to go around for that, frankly. >If you don't think we can kick Dave out quickly enough anymore (my fault), >then a four way it will have to be. That's what I think. More precisely, I think that there is a good chance, a very good chance, that Dave can escort English units into Warsaw, or Tyrolia, or some other unpleasant place. Or Dave could run to Venice and bother the hell out of you. Various possibilities. I think we could try it and maybe get lucky, because either Cal could be insufficiently aggressive, or we could make some good guesses in the first year or so. > I'll pull up a map later today (actually, >probably this evening) and see if I can see any sure way to pare the >survivor count down. I have to retreat this evening. I probably won't wait for you. Chances are I will retreat to Tyrolia. Because if we're just going to go 4-way, it doesn't matter where I retreat, and if we're going to try to eliminate Dave, I have to retreat to Tyrolia. By the way, I am almost certain that in the adjustment phase I will debuild two southern fleets. No matter which plan we implement. I can't see how I could need them for anything now. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
No, I didn't tell Cal anything other than to keep staying out of MAO. As for Dave, I told him to debuild his fleet, and that I'm still with him. > I have to retreat this evening. I probably won't wait for you. > No need to. I think you and I discussed your options and Tyo seemed best. > By the way, I am almost certain that in the adjustment phase I will debuild > two southern fleets. No matter which plan we implement. I can't see how I > could need them for anything now. > Well, I would appreciate it, and this will certainly allow me the comfort I need to put up a line out west. Gotta run. Meeting.... Manus
Message from Observer to England in 'pouchtoo':
>Broadcast message from [email protected] as England in >'pouchtoo': > >Just so people will have something to blame on ME insofar as >delays are concerned, I will be away from September 5th to 13th >as the wife and I risk our necks in the wilds of Northern Ontario. >Wish us and our canoe, good luck. :-) Good luck. Sounds like a lot more fun than hanging drywall. Nice playing... Jim
Message from Observer to England in 'pouchtoo':
>Save it til the fat lady has sung... ;) Words to wise diplomats, and home run hitters... I guess the name Sam Holbrook could live as long as, say Bobby Thompson, Bill Mazeroski, Carlton Fisk, and say, Bill Buckner? Not bad for an umpire. Yours, Jim
Build
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Ok, so what do you think? Could we eliminate him? Do *not* assume that Cal will give even a season breathing room. Assume rather that Cal and Dave will now conspire to give Cal the win. I'm not absolutely sure this will happen, but it seems pretty likely. I think the only break we might get is that Cal might be just a little tentative, not quite realizing that his best shot is to play as aggressively as possible. We do have one significant advantage, if things go as I expect. Cal doesn't have even nearly enough armies on the continent. He would have to build armies like crazy and convoy them over constantly. I think there will be a psychological block to doing that, he's going to feel like he needs to use the fleets he has against you and me, and so if he builds armies he won't have enough ferries for them. Here's how it looked when I tried playing through some variations. Maybe you should examine the situation yourself before reading what follows. As I see it, They should try either to shove Cal's armies into Tyo and Pie, and Ven if they can get it (has to be Cal's armies, otherwise I'll get that stuff back when Austria disappears), or else go after Warsaw with enough Austrian ground force to hold it until Cal can build up enough armies to secure it. If I can guess which way they'll go, I think we should be able to hold the line. I *think*. All this assumes that Dave disbands the fleet. It sure seems like his best move. Then I can safely get rid of my two fleets in the corner, and move my F Gre to Ion (mainly to get it out of your way, it doesn't have any other good exit). You can go to Smy and Gre, and to TyS, and Mar-Bur looks mandatory, otherwise Cal can cut Mar S Spa in the Fall and he'll have F MAO, F Por, you'd lose Spain. Too early. You're going to lose it, but you can't afford to lose it this coming year. My moves would be something like this. I'd move Tyo-Ven, partly because I want to take Ven from Austria, of course, but mostly because if Austria gets A Ven you are in big trouble and they're going to control Tyrolia and Piedmont. It looks like I can hold War and also grab at least one center >from Austria. And I'd move the fleet into Adriatic. Let's see. Right, then next year, 1909, you get two builds. You could build A Rom, F Nap. That fleet should be enough. Rom-Tus, and unless Cal has made it into Pie and Tyo we ought to be able to secure both of those between us. I can't see what Dave would do. Would he try to hold his centers as long as possible, making me fight him for them while Cal inches into position? Or would he give up the centers to support Cal into Galicia and other ugly places like that? I think the latter fails. So then in 1910, I think you will have lost Mar and Spa and have to make sure you can get that line that holds all of Italy and Tunis. By then my fleet should be able to help, and of course the fleet you'll have used to take Gre will also be available, so we won't be shorthanded there. Your Turkish army will have been taking my centers to make sure you can supply yourself. If you ever have to disband, you can dump that one. And I would have to be ready at that point to secure my half of the line. A Tyo, A Boh, A Gal, A War, A Mos, that line. A couple more armies for support underneath, those are easy. I'd use the northern fleets mainly as a distraction, they are ultimately useless, I think, and I'll disband them when I have to remove units. One of us would have A Pie, probably you (when it retreats from Mar). I don't think we have any chance, really, to get a line that holds Mar. So I can't lose Mos or War. Well, I don't think I'm going to lose Mos, anyway! Even if Dave ordered an army into Ukraine, I think I'd be ok. I don't know. I did analyze some of it and it looked ok, but I didn't analyze any lines in which A/E just go after Warsaw together, and I am not sure we don't collapse if we make a couple of bad guesses. (You might have to guess whether to protect Spa or Mar, for example; I will be guessing just to cut Austria down quickly and also how to keep Cal from getting an advanced army.) You try it. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Oh, and if I hear one more of those "Well, I'm afraid you and Cal will make common cause again and destroy me," that's it, I'm going to take whatever terms Dave wants. Tsar J ;)
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': >That was an unfortunate side effect of the judge being down. I sent you >several messages asking for your support to Munich, which would have kept >my center count even, but as with the orders, they apparently got tossed >into the bit bucket and never made it to you. I didn't know that you hadn't >received them until well after the deadline. I STILL haven't gotten those messages. I guess some must have been totally lost when the Judge went down. >Ayup. Enjoy your trip, I envy you. I've done some canoeing in northern >Canada and enjoyed it immensely. I could really use a break like that, >although I think I'm going to have to wait until the kids are bit older >for an extended trip (they're 4 and 2 now). I am hoping to go camping >this weekend for at least some break. We do a couple of days in (at a little used entry point to the Park), try to achieve total karmic vegetablism for a couple of days and then take a couple of days getting out. Life at its finest... ;) Cal
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
> > We do a couple of days in (at a little used entry point to the Park), try to > achieve total karmic vegetablism for a couple of days and then take a couple > of days getting out. Life at its finest... ;) > My uncle has been leading a trip to Parc de la Verandrey (sp?) for years. That is where I went with him for a week long trip. He's up there right now with another aunt and uncle and some more friends. The youngest of my family on the trip is 83! I have hopes when I'm that age that I'll still be able to go on week long canoe trips! enjoy. Dave
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': >My uncle has been leading a trip to Parc de la Verandrey (sp?) for years. >That is where I went with him for a week long trip. He's up there right >now with another aunt and uncle and some more friends. The youngest of >my family on the trip is 83! I have hopes when I'm that age that I'll >still be able to go on week long canoe trips! Heck, I'll be happy to still be breathing when I'm 83. Being able to camp would be a serious bonus! Any ideas on the game? No one is writing to me (except about camping...) which doesn't make feel too secure. I'm sure Jamie's thumping the drums about a "stop England" alliance, so I'm a bit worried. I suspect the removals that you and he make will tell the tale. Are you planning on continuing to work against him? And how about Manus? He seems like he's about to drop out of the game for all he's written. If I don't start to hear from him, I'm going to have to move a couple of units south just in self-defense. I'd rather not as this would probably make the A/I/R a reality, but better that than leave myself open. I'd love to hear your comments; hell, I'd love to hear anything game-related just so I don't feel so alone here... Cal
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Cal, Yes, I'm still going to be fighting Jamie. He's not leaving me much choice. If he wanted to negotiate he'd have retreated to Burgundy, not Tyrolia. I would not advise moving south towards Manus. He's not going to attack you, but if you come south he is definitely going to pull out of the battle with Russia and move everything west. He's already promised/warned me of this. Of course if that happens my position will collapse and you'll be in a race with Russia with Manus on the Russian's side. I've frankly had very little time to look at the game, haven't even figured out what I'm going to remove yet. I'm putting in 12 hour days at work and only get to look at the mail at the beginning and end. With so little time at home with the family, I'm not spending it on games. Despite the silences, you can rest assurred that I'm still on board unless you make a move to the south. My thoughts at this point include you supporting me to Berlin. Any other ideas on your side/ DAve _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': >Yes, I'm still going to be fighting Jamie. He's not leaving me much >choice. If he wanted to negotiate he'd have retreated to Burgundy, >not Tyrolia. True enough. I figure he has his eyes on an 18 centre win for which he'll need to take the Italian peninsula. >I would not advise moving south towards Manus. He's not going to attack >you, but if you come south he is definitely going to pull out of the >battle with Russia and move everything west. He's already promised/warned >me of this. Of course if that happens my position will collapse and you'll >be in a race with Russia with Manus on the Russian's side. What's up with him anyway? I have received one short note since the last moves and, when I replied, nothing since. I'll stay north and will trust Manus to stay where he is. I don't want to see your position collapse with Russia right there to benefit. >I've frankly had very little time to look at the game, haven't even >figured out what I'm going to remove yet. I'm putting in 12 hour days >at work and only get to look at the mail at the beginning and end. With >so little time at home with the family, I'm not spending it on games. >Despite the silences, you can rest assurred that I'm still on board unless >you make a move to the south. My thoughts at this point include you >supporting me to Berlin. Any other ideas on your side/ Don't blame you at all for having your priorities straight.I may juggle my units around a little on the north coast of Germany, but plans definitely call for supporting you into Berlin in the Fall. Any idea what you're removing? Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
... for a change! Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >... for a change! Only because Manus doesn't HAVE any adjustments... Seriously though, Dave has said that he is working 12 hour days and doesn't get to his e-mail much. On the other hand, he's still managed to write to me. You, however, been awfully quiet lately... Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>Only because Manus doesn't HAVE any adjustments... Oh yeah. >Seriously though, Dave has said that he is working 12 hour days and doesn't >get to his e-mail much. I see. (He didn't tell me that. We don't talk much ;-)) >On the other hand, he's still managed to write to me. You, however, been >awfully quiet lately... Oh, well, I guess. Not much to say. Ok, how about this: Please do not take more of my centers. Ok, ok. I think I do have some more to say, but I was going to wait to see how you built first. I ought to be able to tell which way the wind's blowing then. Or maybe not, I don't know. Maybe I'll have to see what your Spring move is before I feel like I know what's up. Why, did you have something you were just dying to know? Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Seriously though, Dave has said that he is working 12 hour days and doesn't > >get to his e-mail much. > > I see. (He didn't tell me that. We don't talk much ;-)) Glad to hear it... heh heh > >On the other hand, he's still managed to write to me. You, however, been > >awfully quiet lately... > > Ok, ok. > I think I do have some more to say, but I was going to wait to see how you > built first. I ought to be able to tell which way the wind's blowing then. > Or maybe not, I don't know. Maybe I'll have to see what your Spring move is > before I feel like I know what's up. > > Why, did you have something you were just dying to know? Not particularly. It's just that, given my nervous nature when I have more than four centres, I can't help but wonder when all three of the other players in the game go silent. Especially one as, uh, verbose as yourself... ;) Cal