| Press for Spring of 1907 in pouchtoo |
Movement
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Oh, well, I'm going to bed very soon. But ok! Well, I figure it would be quite easy, *if* you can get any inside info. If you can't, maybe the very same tricks work, only I wouldn't be able to get an Austrian center. If, for example, Dave won't cover Trieste, then you can order Ion-Gre and Nap-Apu! You'll take Venice in the Fall. I should be able to capture Serbia, I expect, or Tri, even without a tip from you. That leaves Dave with just Munich (maybe! I don't know whether Cal will continue to let him have it, I figure he will) plus two others. You would have seven. Ok, let's face it, eight, because he'll support you into Smyrna and I won't defend it. (But maybe you'll wait? Because you'll only have two spots to build in.) If he does plan to cover Tri, I can order Bud-Tri and keep him out. In the mean time, I think I will lose two northern centers to Cal. So even if I do get the Austrian center, I go down one, to twelve, and Cal goes to twelve. So don't say that Dave would throw the game to me, because you and Cal would very easily stop that. I mean, England vs. Russia in the north is no contest, and Italy vs. Austria in the south would be an easy time for you. In fact, I'd be so overpowered in the north that I think we'd just have to throw up a stalemate line and be done with it (eliminating Austria along the way, naturally). How's that? Too vague? Of course, Dave might actually ask you to move to Greece. In that case, you wouldn't even have to stab him, you'd get the center and you could stab him next year, and you could send something else west. Argh, am I whistling in the dark again? This time just say 'no thanks' if for some reason you want to keep waiting it out, don't make me squander my moves again and lose more ground. You're going to need me at some point, you know. Now I'm getting depressed, I should go to sleep. Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
If I may be so bold: Take what you will, but maybe you ought to put that new army somewhere it could be useful in case you decide next year is a good time to switch tacks. For intance, it would not be very helpful in Denmark or Norway! Paris is looking kind of naked, but I suppose you've noticed that. My other neighbors are bargaining very hard with me (rather suddenly), but so far I have resisted. It still seems to me that my best bet is to take my licks in the north and see if I can keep what I've got, or even maybe grow a little, in the south. Hope I'm right! Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
I didn't mean for you to convince me NOW, necessarily. I'm going to bed soon, too. I'll read but probably not respond to your mail.... Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > > If I may be so bold: > Take what you will, but maybe you ought to put that new army somewhere it > could be useful in case you decide next year is a good time to switch > tacks. For intance, it would not be very helpful in Denmark or Norway! You could always convoy me to Livonia... :) Seriously though, I WILL probably be moving it on to the mainland. > Paris is looking kind of naked, but I suppose you've noticed that. Well, yeah... > My other neighbors are bargaining very hard with me (rather suddenly), but > so far I have resisted. It still seems to me that my best bet is to take my > licks in the north and see if I can keep what I've got, or even maybe grow > a little, in the south. > > Hope I'm right! Actually, with you increasing in strength in the south and the removals that Dave made, I don't think I have to worry overly much about A/I perfidy. You're much more of a threat to them now and in the immediate future. At least for the moment, you're still the devil most feared. Cal
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
You may indeed be right. I've got virtually nothing else to do, I suppose, anyway. Convince me, though. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Geez, it's almost as though he *wants* you to take Ven and Gre! And maybe Tri too. Surely there's some way to get you to take some stuff this year, there must be. It's such a golden opportunity. If I got even one from him, and you got two, he'd be finished. Virtually. A two center power threatening to throw the game to me? We have lots of time. I mean, I have lots of time to convince you. But I'm right this time, aren't I? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
So?
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> So? > So I've been totally swamped at work today. I hope I get time later today (not likely) or tonight or this weekend. :-( Manus
Message from England to England in 'pouchtoo':
test
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Hi guy! I need to know what you think about supporting me to Berlin this season so I can figure out some tactics. Part of the reason I want Berlin (as well as the fact that it's a centre that gets taken away from Russia) is so that Kiel will be open for a fleet which will allow me to make a move on Bal & Bot ASAP. Tactically, that will hurt Russia's northern front very seriously if done correctly. Please get back to me. Cal signof
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Have you heard from Dave lately? He's not answered two consecutive messages from me. Cal
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hi yourself. I've not been ignoring you, just the usual busy and no email on the weekends. I'm not completely adverse to the idea of you getting into Berlin, but do have a couple of thoughts about it. First is that I think there is about zero chance of it working. Second is that we need Austrian units more than English units to keep the southern front from collapsing. I'll have to update a map and look at it, but I'm thinking that Mun -Ber might have a better chance of success and some shuffling of units would still achieve our goals. Let me do up a map and get back to you in a day or so. Why the move to MAO? There was no threat from France. If you start to pressure Italy it makes things rather ugly all around. Kaiser D
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Have you heard from Dave lately? He's not answered two > consecutive messages from me. > I haven't heard from him at all since the moves. Jamie's writing me a lot, but that's the only communication I've been receiving. And I haven't had time to initiate much myself. Busy end of the week and busy weekend.... Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Ok, so any thoughts yet? Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
To have thoughts, I need time. To have time, I need the client to solve their own problems. Tonight, from home, I promise to make room for the important stuff. I hope. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Ok. Well, except: >Tonight, from home, I promise to make room for the important stuff. > >I hope. Promises don't work like that. :-) Tsar J
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': > > Hi yourself. I've not been ignoring you, just the usual busy and no email > on the weekends. I'm not completely adverse to the idea of you getting > into Berlin, but do have a couple of thoughts about it. First is that I > think there is about zero chance of it working. Second is that we need > Austrian units more than English units to keep the southern front from > collapsing. I'll have to update a map and look at it, but I'm thinking > that Mun -Ber might have a better chance of success and some shuffling > of units would still achieve our goals. Let me do up a map and get back > to you in a day or so. Okay, fair enough. I have no problem with you owning Berlin at all. I just want to be able to use it to base a fleet there long enough to force Baltic. That's the key in any attack quick attack on Russia in the north - bully your way into the two interior sea spaces ASAP. > Why the move to MAO? There was no threat from France. If you start to > pressure Italy it makes things rather ugly all around. Mostly because Manus was so gung ho that I NOT move there - sheer cussedness, I suppose. Don't worry, it won't happen again. I'll either keep bouncing it with F Portugal until Manus is out of Western Med or (more likely) I'll move it to the English Channel this turn. Cal
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
I've looked at the situation more closely and I've decided that you were right that YOU should take Berlin if it's to be taken. I will send in the orders shortly. You can use the support if you wish, but if you have any better ideas, let me know. Cal
Message from England to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Do you guys want my fleet in Portugal to come into the Med to help out? I am sending the fleet in Brest to the English Channel so you will be able to stop worrying about THAT. I'll abide completely by your joint decision if you turn down my offer. Cal
Message from Italy to Austria and England in
'pouchtoo': My vote, without meaning to cause any discord, is no on the English fleets in the Med idea. I do appreciate the offer and the spirit in which it was made, but I'd prefer to turn it down at this juncture. Manus
Message from Austria to England and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Having no reason to contradict Manus's wishes, I thank the English for their kind offer, but it would appear we respectfully decline. Tally ho!
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
Okay. I'll try hard to get to look at it tonight. I'm still playing catch up. What do you expect to do with Ruhr? Dave > I've looked at the situation more closely and I've decided that you were > right that YOU should take Berlin if it's to be taken. I will send in the > orders shortly. You can use the support if you wish, but if you have any > better ideas, let me know. > > Cal >
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': > > > Okay. I'll try hard to get to look at it tonight. I'm still playing > catch up. What do you expect to do with Ruhr? Support A Kie in place. Cal
Message from England to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': > Message from [email protected] as Italy to Austria and England in > 'pouchtoo': > > My vote, without meaning to cause any discord, is no on the English > fleets in the Med idea. I do appreciate the offer and the spirit in > which it was made, but I'd prefer to turn it down at this juncture. No problem. I understand why you don't want it there. I'll just leave it in Portugal. Cal
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave: I need ideas and I need them fast. I haven't had time to look at the board and the moves are due tonight. Jamie encourages me to set up a line against Cal, and I guess that would be necessary before soon enough becomes too later, but do you agree? Nap-TYS to begin doing so? What of Spa-WES-Tun? Are we attacking AEG? Manus
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Aauugghh! So much for my "I'll find time" promise (you're right; it didn't work that way). Aauugghh!
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, My results from the build orders say that the moves are due on Friday. That is what I've been working on. If someone changed the deadline on me again I missed it. One of the understandings I had when I joined was that I couldn't do quick deadlines, too much else going on. How do I check what the deadline really is? I'll get you ideas tomorrow, but I can't do it today at work and I don't have email from home. -Dave
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, I just looked at the judge's reply to my mail. Deadline is Friday. You owe me two years off my life (<: -Dave
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Oh. Friday. Halleluiah! Whew! You don't know how relieved that makes me. I know this game is set up for Tuesday/Friday deadlines and here is it Tuesday, so I was panicking. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
You can check the deadline by asking for a game "list", but it also appears at the top of all "echoes" back to you (like the press you sent me). Long story short, you were absolutely right and I was panicking for no good reason. I'll panic in three days instead. :-) Back to work.... Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Yeah. Well, you're going to have to give me some lead time, because I will be leaving town on Friday and I'll need to submit my moves on Thursday. Can you do that? Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
> Manus, I just looked at the judge's reply to my mail. Deadline is Friday. > You owe me two years off my life (<: > Sorry; I have none to spare. Anymore. :-) Manus
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Yeah. Well, you're going to have to give me some lead time, because I will > be leaving town on Friday and I'll need to submit my moves on Thursday. > Can you do that? > Yep. Manus
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Let's replace Manus and Dave with a good AI program. I hear they take about eleven nanoseconds to come up with moves. And they don't have day jobs.
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Ok, good, because if the deadline passes and the two of us are late, that will kind of ruin any surprises. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Good point. I thought I would have time today, but the Hasbro business ate up every free minute I have had. Tonight or tomorrow, though. For sure this time. We will not be late (he says, as much for Rick's benefit as anyone). Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > > Let's replace Manus and Dave with a good AI program. I hear they take about > eleven nanoseconds to come up with moves. And they don't have day jobs. Replace A/I with AI? Hmmm... :) Hey, *I've* been hearing from Dave at least. Course he probably has more to say to me... grin Cal
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, I'll take whatever time is necessary today to hash things out. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
If you have any time today to discuss the game, let me know. (I'm hoping so -- Jamie will be campaigning for me to stab you all day, and I if I can do so (since it's only Spring) in a fashion that will be beneficial, in the end, for both of us, I'd like to.) If not, I still need to know what we're going to be doing. Manus
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
hello Manus, I think you are trying too hard to make this complicated! (<: While it's always fun to fake people out, I really don't see much gain from trying to make Jamie think you are working with him. He'll find out the truth soon enough, and in the meantime and apparent rift between us will only increase the chances of Cal making a move of his own. As to the current move, I think Jamie made a mistake with his fleet build. Smyrna is now ours. My suggestions are as follows: A Syr s F Eas - Smy, F Ion - Aeg, F Nap - Ion, F Wes s Spa, A Spa s Por If Jamie does anything other than use Con to support Smy, then we are in. If he does support, then you are in Aeg, and as he can't move up any more support this turn, Smy falls in the Fall. Note that I do have you supporting me in. There are two reasons for this. One, I think I need the centers to stop the collapse of our line. We can't afford any more Austrian disbands than we have to. Secondly, I think there is a fair chance you may end up in Greece in the fall anyway. What do you think? Dave
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Sounds good to me. I'll snow Jamie in the press before the moves is all, then. Just make sure he thinks I'm friendly enough he won't support Smy with Con. Manus
Message from Russia to Master in 'pouchtoo':
Rick; All of a sudden in the middle of the day I got hit with some kind of flu or somehing. I have a high fever and can't think straight. I've been sleeping all afternoon. I submitted my moves, uh, this morning, maybe, I think, and they are my moves on the assumption that Manus isn't going to help me, which is the assumption I would make, of course, if he never answers me at all. At the time I was hoping he would indeed write to me today and agree to my plan. Well, the day isn't over in California, I guess. So. Um. I have no idea what my conclusion is. Maybe this is enough information for you to know what to do. Jamie
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
What a day! Aauugghh! Okay, I've looked a little and I think it's time to take some bites. I'll send Dave some press, find out what he's up to, and take advantage of things. Manus
Message from Russia to Master in 'pouchtoo':
Hm, that was an odd coincidence. To be honest, I am afraid to write back to Manus now, I am not confident that I know what's an intelligent thing to say. Should I tell him that I'm sick? I guess I should. Jamie
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, Unfortunately, I am quite sick at the moment, feverish and having a hard time staying coherent. It was really sudden, I just got hit in the middle of the day, came home and went to sleep. I should be able to check my mail tomorrow, though. (Friday) I'm not leaving town until the afternoon. By tomorrow I'll either feel better or I'll be at the doctor. -Jamie
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Sorry to hear you are ill. A co-worker of mine was out yesterday with something sonding a lot like what you have, and I have not been feeling 100% lately myself, though I've managed to hang in there. My best, and talk to you tomorrow. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Somewhat better today. But as I told you, I am leaving town this afternoon. I'll check in as late as I can, but I doubt that will be after noon EDT, so you probably won't be up yet :-) So I'm afraid we will not be able to coordinate anything. Too bad. But take Greece anyway, I'll support you there. And order Nap-Apu, so you can take Venice, too. Tsar J
Retreat
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
I'll probably live to regret it but I'm holding out for one more year. I imagine you aren't too happy with this decision, but your fleet at Sevastopol in the end convinced me that our alliance isn't much of one yet. I know Cal is a worry, but if he attacks me, I will convoy you to Tunis or whatever it takes to hand you the game. I know he's hitting you hard up north, but I don't like the fact that you chose to add more strength to the south instead of deal with him. I intend to get my pound of flesh out of Dave, but I guess with your fleets not only increasing but coming out to get me, and your ownership of the Turkish spots where I first got stabbed, I'm hoping for an ounce or two from you first. I may not get it, but I just was feeling like while I ate Dave, you would fill the Med and I would have my little line up against Cal while you sailed into Naples. Like I say, maybe this is going to happen anyway; God knows I hope not, but your moves are no encouragement for any kind of alliance. I realize I could have had Greece either of the last two turns. Look what it would have got me. You now have three units on it and if you think I would feel safe there, you're wrong. You're big, you're growing, and you're a threat to me. I want to work with you but I don't see a way when you keep coming at me. I'll admit that I waffled back and forth, and that Dave sweet-talked me a bit, but well, what's done is done. Like I say, I'd love to work with you, but if you're attacking Austria, I don't see why you need three southern fleets. Manus
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Yeah, that looks good. (Strange thing to say to someone who's taking your centers, but that's how it looks to me!) I'm a little bit sorry that you're giving Austria Berlin, but I guess he's still got you with that "I'll throw the game to Jamie if you don't follow my instructions" line, huh? (He told me he'd give you the game if I didn't start giving him back his centers, but so far I haven't bought it. :-)) I see you're planning a nice convoy, so maybe you'll feel ready for a change of tack after the next adjustments. Don't worry, Manus isn't going to build. He's squandering his only opportunities. So, for the record, my position is this: If you leave me with enough to have some hope, I'll keep Manus from bottling up the Med. while you enter. Obviously, if my chances are wrecked, I'll have to just go for whatever last alliance I can get to prevent you from solo-ing. Don't be too greedy! Take the >50% chance I'm offering! Tsar J (I think I'll write again later)
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>I'll probably live to regret it but I'm holding out for one more year. >I imagine you aren't too happy with this decision, What I'm not to happy about is that you again waited until after the move to let me know. Fortunately, I was not so foolish as to support you again! >but your fleet at >Sevastopol in the end convinced me that our alliance isn't much of >one yet. It sure isn't! Our 'alliance' consists of my offering you any support I can give, and you hedging until after the moves and *then* declining! That's not an alliance, you're right. It's totally one-sided. > I know Cal is a worry, but if he attacks me, I will convoy >you to Tunis or whatever it takes to hand you the game. Manus, I think you're missing the point. If Dave attacks you and you aren't prepared to defend Tunis, Naples, etc., then there isn't going to be any question of handing me the game! He will get 18 centers. He has the northern half of the stalemate line practically in his pocket -- it's conceivable that if he were to stab a little too early the Austrian army in Germany could form part of an Eastern line, but if not England would have Stp to Munich, and would need just Tunis to win. And if I don't debuild carefully, he could get a little bite more. But at the moment, Cal doesn't seem to be heading that way, so it looks reasonably safe for you to continue to play around in the south. So my job will be to prevent you from gaining anything out of it. I haven't examined the results very carefully, but it appears that I'm doing pretty well at that job so far. > I know he's >hitting you hard up north, but I don't like the fact that you chose to >add more strength to the south instead of deal with him. Well, then you shouldn't have chosen the "Lie to Jamie for a few Seasons to See if I Can Get an Extra Center" option. If you thought I was going to roll over, you were badly mistaken. As I explained, there is no way I can 'deal with' Cal in the north. I can make that fight last a little longer, but I cannot win it. Cal will get all of those centers. It's just a question of how long it takes him. > I intend to >get my pound of flesh out of Dave, but I guess with your >fleets not only increasing but coming out to get me, and your ownership >of the Turkish spots where I first got stabbed, I'm hoping for an ounce >or two from you first. Ok. So come and get it then. I'm sure you won't need much force in the western seas. Which ounce are you expecting to get, by the way? You just passed up Smyrna. Are you hoping I'll take Greece so you can take it from me instead of from Dave? Or which juicy ounce of my flesh are you salivating over? > I may not get it, but I just was feeling like >while I ate Dave, you would fill the Med and I would have my little >line up against Cal while you sailed into Naples. So, the scenario you envisage is this. I attack you and Austria, and Cal waits quietly for a while until I can manage to set up a stalemate line against him ALL BY MYSELF. Sure, that's likely. Cal is very trustworthy, I would trust him not to just take the 18th center while I fought for years to try to take Naples and Rome, Venice and Tunis, Greece and Serbia, Vienna and Trieste. > Like I say, maybe >this is going to happen anyway; God knows I hope not, but your moves >are no encouragement for any kind of alliance. *MY* moves are not encouraging! No, because ordering my units to support yours into Greece is not encouraging for an alliance. What's encouraging is when you tell me for a week or so, "Yeah, maybe this is the right time", and then *after* the moves are processed you let on that you weren't interested. Probably the most encouraging moves for an alliance are your convoy into Syria and support of the Austrian fleet into Smyrna. Hm, wait, that doesn't sound right. Let me check my Users Manual again. >I want to work with you but I don't see a way when you keep coming at me. That's disingenuous, don't give me that. You continue to support Austria *against* me, you convoy an army to a position where it can't do anything but attack me, you try to get me to use up my precious moves to support actions you don't intend to make. I offer you any support I can give, I actually issue the support order, I even clear out Smyrna in case you want it. It's very clear who's trying to make an alliance and who's just stringing the other guy along. >but well, what's done is done. Yeah, the song is over. But the memory lingers on. > Like I say, I'd love to work with >you, but if you're attacking Austria, I don't see why you need three southern >fleets. I told you why. I built another fleet because you stabbed me. It's perfectly clear that I am attacking Austria. If you *really* doubt it (and I don't think you do, I think you're just pretending), then I bet you are the only person among all players and observers who has the slightest doubt. It's not exactly a surprise, either. The surprise, to me anyway, is that when you stab me you aren't even stabbing me to gain anything. You're just feeding Dave. Well, at the moment I don't know what else to do, so I will just continue my present approach. Maybe Cal will take a couple of years to capture all of the North. It's probably too late to get Dave on the ropes before that happens, so I'll just have to hope that at that point, the two of you will do something to prevent an English win. Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Yeah, that looks good. (Strange thing to say to someone who's taking = your >centers, but that's how it looks to me!) Well, on those terms, I'll be glad to make it as good looking as I can! =>I'm a little bit sorry that you're giving Austria Berlin, but I guess = he's >still got you with that "I'll throw the game to Jamie if you don't = follow >my instructions" line, huh? (He told me he'd give you the game if I = didn't >start giving him back his centers, but so far I haven't bought it. :-)) Yeah, but the differnece here is that all he has to do is throw you one = or two more centres than you can easily TAKE to give you the solo. > >I see you're planning a nice convoy, so maybe you'll feel ready for a >change of tack after the next adjustments. Don't worry, Manus isn't = going >to build. He's squandering his only opportunities. Actually, I can't reach Nice from here, Manus would freak out and...oh! = You meant NICE as in good! Sorry. All those French speaking people I = work with... heh heh >So, for the record, my position is this: If you leave me with enough to >have some hope, I'll keep Manus from bottling up the Med. while you = enter. Well, at the moment I certainly can't do anything other than what I'm = doing or the Austrian threat kicks in >Obviously, if my chances are wrecked, I'll have to just go for whatever >last alliance I can get to prevent you from solo-ing. Don't be too = greedy! >Take the >50% chance I'm offering! Greedy? Moi? While I would certainly TRY for the solo if it was = presented, the odds of YOU reaching 18 at the moment are about 200% = higher than my doing it. Hence my present course... Later Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Ooh, I was in the middle of writing a follow-up. Well, I honestly don't understand your attitude. I mean this: >Yeah, but the differnece here is that all he has to do is throw you one >or two more centres than you can easily TAKE to give you the solo. How do you figure that??? Here's how I see it. You're going to have Scandinavia. You actually *had* Germany locked up, but Dave made you put him in Berlin and now I have Munich, so you'd have to be careful there, but that was up to you, you could have sewn up Germany. And ultimately you'd get Stp, too, though I could probably hold it a good long time. So to win, I would have to take all of Austria, all of the Balkans, and all of Italy. You think Dave could throw me Italy??? But on the other hand, if Dave decided he wanted you to win, it would be trivial for him to give it to you, absolutely trivial. All he'd have to do is cut Italy's defenses while you sailed in to take Spa and Mar and Tun. The rest, the northern centers, you can get even without his help (as long as he doesn't hinder). So how come I'm not worried? Because I know Dave? Anyway, I guess I won't waste my breath. Good luck with Sweden, sort of. I'm half inclined to let you take it without opposition. In fact, the only reason I won't do that is that I'm afraid you'd use the slack to help Dave more :-(. What I was hoping was that you'd make your gains faster, and I'd cut Dave down to an unthreatening size, and we'd play it from there. But Dave has an extensive life-support system in place now. I think Dave is playing quite an amazing game. He's forcing you and Manus both to give him my centers! Why Manus agreed that Austria should get Smyrna I can't imagine. Hypnosis, I guess. At least up in your area, you're getting something too, and you could get Berlin or Mun later. Manus has nothing to show for his help, and not likely to see anything soon either. Yeah, must be hypnosis. Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >Here's how I see it. You're going to have Scandinavia. You actually *had* >Germany locked up, but Dave made you put him in Berlin and now I have >Munich, so you'd have to be careful there, but that was up to you, you >could have sewn up Germany. And ultimately you'd get Stp, too, though I >could probably hold it a good long time. So to win, I would have to take >all of Austria, all of the Balkans, and all of Italy. You think Dave could >throw me Italy??? I see what you're saying and it makes sense. The difference, I guess, is that you and are both seeing it from our own pessimistic points of view. I look at it and say, "geez, he's got 13 centres and most of Austria and the Balkans in his grasp!" and underestimate how much damage I can do up north. You look at it and think "Geez, Scandinavia is lost and that's four centres (inc St Pete's) and I'm going to have a battle on my hands getting Dave out of Austria with Cal and Manus propping him up." That leads to a different perspective. The truth, I suppose, is somewhere in the middle. >But on the other hand, if Dave decided he wanted you to win, it would be >trivial for him to give it to you, absolutely trivial. All he'd have to do >is cut Italy's defenses while you sailed in to take Spa and Mar and Tun. >The rest, the northern centers, you can get even without his help (as long >as he doesn't hinder). See what I mean? >So how come I'm not worried? > >Because I know Dave? I don't think he'd throw an outright victory to either of us (I know him a bit too, from postal play, albeit Gunboat), but if he is forced to make a "show" of giving you or me a centre, it might be enough to tip the balance. I won't risk that for now... >Anyway, I guess I won't waste my breath. It's hardly wasted for two reasons: 1) you're the only one writing to me at the moment (we know about Dave's problems, but Manus has disappeared. Probably picketing outside the Hasbro front offices with a "Save The Judges!" sign...); and 2) I'm not completely unamenable to what you're saying. I know that I will eventually have to move back through the Med and, (admission of blatant self-interest coming) since you're encouraging that, I'm not ruling out going along with your ideas. If you're offering to help, I'd certainly accept. I just don't think I can turn aside at the moment. Next year? Perhaps a different story. >Good luck with Sweden, sort of. I'm half inclined to let you take it >without opposition. In fact, the only reason I won't do that is that I'm >afraid you'd use the slack to help Dave more :-(. What I was hoping was >that you'd make your gains faster, and I'd cut Dave down to an >unthreatening size, and we'd play it from there. But Dave has an extensive >life-support system in place now. Truth to tell, his actually getting into Berlin surprised me a bit. I figured you'd use it to go into Munich. A Sil-Mun was unexpected. As you say, Dave is in a better position tactically and will slow you down more than I had expected. Needless to say, I won't give him any more centres if I can help it. Strategically speaking, we have a different story. If he and I are able to kick you out of Munich this turn (which we need to do to keep your growth to a minimum), you're going to have a very interesting retreat option (as I'm sure you've noticed). While Burgandy would mess me up somewhat, I'm sure Tyrolia will be a much more useful option for you. That will give you some pretty good leverage on taking centres from both Dave and Manus (heck, it might even be enough to crack Italy open and get you that 18 centre win, although that is a BIT of a longshot). This is pretty much the reason for MY paranoia. >I think Dave is playing quite an amazing game. He's forcing you and Manus >both to give him my centers! Why Manus agreed that Austria should get >Smyrna I can't imagine. Hypnosis, I guess. At least up in your area, you're >getting something too, and you could get Berlin or Mun later. Manus has >nothing to show for his help, and not likely to see anything soon either. >Yeah, must be hypnosis. Careful now. You're starting to sound like Hohn... Keep in touch. This game has yet a lot of play in for both of us. Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
> The truth, I suppose, is somewhere in the middle. Oh, sure, it's in the middle, I agree. I should be *glad* you don't realize, uh, I mean, believe that you have a very good shot at a win! Makes it less likely that you'll actually win. :-) >I don't think he'd throw an outright victory to either of us (I know him a >bit too, from postal play, albeit Gunboat), but if he is forced to make a >"show" of giving you or me a centre, it might be enough to tip the balance. >I won't risk that for now... Grrrrr. As though his giving me one center might "tip the balance" in the sense of letting me win! Oh well. >It's hardly wasted for two reasons: 1) you're the only one writing to me at >the moment (we know about Dave's problems, but Manus has disappeared. >Probably picketing outside the Hasbro front offices with a "Save The >Judges!" sign...); He hasn't really disappeared. I learned this a few moves ago. He just thinks he can sometimes get an advantage by not responding until the last minute, or better still just *after* the last minute. It's an annoying ploy, frankly, I find it a little insulting. (He did get me with it once, though.) > and 2) I'm not completely unamenable to what you're >saying. I know that I will eventually have to move back through the Med and, >(admission of blatant self-interest coming) since you're encouraging that, >I'm not ruling out going along with your ideas. If you're offering to >help, I'd certainly accept. I just don't think I can turn aside at the >moment. Next year? Perhaps a different story. Oh! Well well. I didn't actually mean you should turn aside at the moment! No no no. Ok, I wasn't clear at all. No, I meant, supposing that you are going to go ahead and take Sweden, it *still* might be sensible for us to, ummm, arrange, or orchestrate things just a little right now. For instance, you mention later that you guys can kick me out of Munich. Well, of course you can. But do you really want to?? If you kick me out of Munich, I really might retreat to Burgundy. Sure, I agree, Tyrolia would also be nice. But Burgundy has its attractions too. So maybe you don't really want me out of Munich all that badly. Maybe what you want is just definitely to get Sweden, and make sure you keep Kiel. (Trying my own hypnosis: you want sweeeeeden, sweeeeden is very niiiiice, the giiiirrrrls are beauuoooooootiful... you need kieeeeel, your ships will fall down if you lose your keeeels... scandinavia is so important, scandiNAVYyeah!, navy, navy, British navy, scandiNAVYyeah!.... you don't care about germany, nasty germs, sick sailors, bad, bad germs, bad germany, you don't care....) Maybe you'll take Munich *after* you've got that new army into a more useful position, so that Mun r Bur is no longer a possibility. Also, maybe you don't mind me staying just a little stronger for another year, strong enough to render Austria harmless. This seems sensible. After all, I think Austria is likely to help *you* win, and you think a strong Austria is likely to help *me* win, so presumably making Austria impotent is something we both want. Of course, at least some of the gains would have to be yours, but that would mean you'd have to take them. But (once again!) I'll go first :-) :-) :-) But seriously, if you let me cut Austria down to a little puddle, then you and I will be able to see our relative strengths more clearly, there will be no disagreement about whose side Austria's dots go to in the showdown. Am I still being too oblique here? I mean, maybe you just have to tell Austria that you'd like to help regain Munich, but after all he can't own both of those centers *this* year (Mun plus Ber), and you do need to make sure you get Sweden right away without losing Kiel or Norway or Den. (You can't make sure, really, but devoting a huge percentage of your forces to the task of taking Swe and protecting Den and Kie and Nwy definitely raises the likelihood for you.) And you could also say that you are pretty sure I would retreat to Bur (or Ruh if you went Ruh-Bur). I could probably tell Manus something that would leak back to Dave, along the lines that I will definitely retreat to Burgundy if I'm kicked out of Munich. So then you'd get Sweden, and I've lost Smyrna, so even if I do very well in the middle of the Austrian territory I'm not going to build, and you will. So when the real "re-evaluation" time comes at the end of this year, I'd still be in relatively good shape but not as good as yours, and Austria would be doing just a little worse than anticipated. This somehow seems like progress from both our perspectives. No? >Truth to tell, his actually getting into Berlin surprised me a bit. I >figured you'd use it to go into Munich. A Sil-Mun was unexpected. Oh, well, you know, I got my training with the Spanish Inquisition. No, seriously, it was just one of the possible moves, I thought it was pretty obvious. I got a little lucky that time. Unlucky last year, but I think my moves were in general pretty lucky this last season. Most of the time, in tactical skirmishes like these, I think the short term ebb and flow turns on luck. You just try to eke the odds up a little, if you're in it for the long haul, which I am. >If he and I are able to kick you out of Munich this turn (which we >need to do to keep your growth to a minimum) Wait. Stop. My growth is going to be zero at best. More likely to be negative. Right? I lost Berlin, Smyrna, and you're going to get Sweden (well, very likely). I might lose Budapest. I added Serbia, and I have a shot at Greece, and I got Munich. If I'm lucky, I break even. I'm expecting to go down one. >, you're going to have a very >interesting retreat option (as I'm sure you've noticed). While Burgandy >would mess me up somewhat, I'm sure Tyrolia will be a much more useful >option for you. That will give you some pretty good leverage on taking >centres from both Dave and Manus (heck, it might even be enough to crack >Italy open and get you that 18 centre win, although that is a BIT of a >longshot). This is pretty much the reason for MY paranoia. Oh, but the answer is so simple: don't remove me from Munich! Yes, I could do damage from either Burgundy or Tyrolia, I sure could, and I honestly don't know which way I'd go. Still, 18, wow, that's really paranoid. Count again. I really would have to take all of Italy. I know A Tyo is strong, but it's generally not strong enough to eliminate Italy without at least one fleet in Ionian! And, you know, if I were reasonably confident that you were 'finishing up' your northern escapade, I would definitely be wanting that A Mun to go to Tyo when it *is* kicked out of there, eventually, by two or three English armies that after all really do have to go down into Burgundy and thereabouts, just for your defenses. (That's the reason they go there, but what they do once they're in the neighborhood you just can't tell, that's the problem with soldiers in France, you know, they tend to get a little wild.) So, I hope you're seeing my ideas, at least. I don't *think* they are risky for you. They don't involve any outright immediate betrayal of Austria for you. I'd just like you to get into a better position where you don't have to worry so much about what Dave thinks... and it would be nice if that would happen before I start spurting blood out of the jugular. Or aorta, or some other serious spot. (Hm, F Jug -Aor, that's worth considering.) You give me the chance, I'll remove Dave's threat for you. My pleasure. A small favor. :-) Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > > I should be *glad* you don't realize, uh, I mean, believe that you have a > very good shot at a win! Makes it less likely that you'll actually win. :-) Oh, I'm aware of the possibility... :) > >it might be enough to tip the balance. > >I won't risk that for now... > > Grrrrr. > As though his giving me one center might "tip the balance" in the sense of > letting me win! It's not so much the centre as the resultant loss of tactical positioning. Whether you're going to admit it or not, it's still pretty delicate at this time. > He hasn't really disappeared. I learned this a few moves ago. He just > thinks he can sometimes get an advantage by not responding until the last > minute, or better still just *after* the last minute. It's an annoying > ploy, frankly, I find it a little insulting. (He did get me with it once, > though.) Really. Hmm, I don't think I'd ever try that as my impression is that it would be awfully counterproductive. Why risk alienating (or even making nervous) the person you're dealing with? > >and 2) I'm not completely unamenable to what you're saying. > >I just don't think I can turn aside at the > >moment. Next year? Perhaps a different story. > > Oh! > Well well. > > I didn't actually mean you should turn aside at the moment! No no no. Ok, I > wasn't clear at all. Okay. > No, I meant, supposing that you are going to go ahead and take Sweden, it > *still* might be sensible for us to, ummm, arrange, or orchestrate things > just a little right now. Perhaps, but you'll pardon any skepticism I might feel towards you arrranging to give me any of your centres...> For instance, you mention later that you guys can kick me out of Munich. > Well, of course you can. But do you really want to?? If you kick me out of > Munich, I really might retreat to Burgundy. Sure, I agree, Tyrolia would > also be nice. But Burgundy has its attractions too. [Not terribly Kreskin-esque attempt at hypnosis snipped...] With an army on the continent this upcoming turn, I can keep you out of Paris and Manus can keep you out of Marseilles. You'd tie up some forces, but they would be forces that aren't really being used right now. Just so you know that I'm not THAT concerned with you retreatng to Burandy... > Also, maybe you don't mind me staying just a little stronger for another > year, strong enough to render Austria harmless. This seems sensible. After > all, I think Austria is likely to help *you* win, and you think a strong > Austria is likely to help *me* win, so presumably making Austria impotent > is something we both want. Of course, at least some of the gains would have > to be yours, but that would mean you'd have to take them. But (once again!) > I'll go first :-) :-) :-) > > But seriously, if you let me cut Austria down to a little puddle, then you > and I will be able to see our relative strengths more clearly, there will > be no disagreement about whose side Austria's dots go to in the showdown. Austria as a little puddle won't be a bad thing. Later. Right now he's my buffer against you while I continue to grow. Are you offering me Munich? > Am I still being too oblique here? I mean, maybe you just have to tell > Austria that you'd like to help regain Munich, but after all he can't own > both of those centers *this* year (Mun plus Ber), and you do need to make > sure you get Sweden right away without losing Kiel or Norway or Den. (You > can't make sure, really, but devoting a huge percentage of your forces to > the task of taking Swe and protecting Den and Kie and Nwy definitely raises > the likelihood for you.) And you could also say that you are pretty sure I > would retreat to Bur (or Ruh if you went Ruh-Bur). I could probably tell > Manus something that would leak back to Dave, along the lines that I will > definitely retreat to Burgundy if I'm kicked out of Munich. > > So then you'd get Sweden, and I've lost Smyrna, so even if I do very well > in the middle of the Austrian territory I'm not going to build, and you > will. So when the real "re-evaluation" time comes at the end of this year, > I'd still be in relatively good shape but not as good as yours, and Austria > would be doing just a little worse than anticipated. This somehow seems > like progress from both our perspectives. No? Agreed. (First time in a while, eh? ) > >Truth to tell, his actually getting into Berlin surprised me a bit. I > >figured you'd use it to go into Munich. A Sil-Mun was unexpected. > > Oh, well, you know, I got my training with the Spanish Inquisition. Our two main weapons are fear, terror and, no, our THREE main weapons are fear, terror, horror and, no! Our FOUR main weapons are... > No, seriously, it was just one of the possible moves, I thought it was > pretty obvious. I got a little lucky that time. Unlucky last year, but I > think my moves were in general pretty lucky this last season. Most of the > time, in tactical skirmishes like these, I think the short term ebb and > flow turns on luck. You just try to eke the odds up a little, if you're in > it for the long haul, which I am. > > >If he and I are able to kick you out of Munich this turn (which we > >need to do to keep your growth to a minimum) > > Wait. > Stop. > My growth is going to be zero at best. More likely to be negative. > Right? > I lost Berlin, Smyrna, and you're going to get Sweden (well, very likely). > I might lose Budapest. I added Serbia, and I have a shot at Greece, and I > got Munich. If I'm lucky, I break even. I'm expecting to go down one. Okay, granted, but breaking even is more likely depending, I suppose, on Munich. > Oh, but the answer is so simple: don't remove me from Munich! I guess that answers my question about you offering Munich... :) > Yes, I could do damage from either Burgundy or Tyrolia, I sure could, and I > honestly don't know which way I'd go. As I said above, I'm not that worried about Burgandy. > Still, 18, wow, that's really paranoid. Paranoia is my strong suit... > Count again. I really would have to > take all of Italy. I know A Tyo is strong, but it's generally not strong > enough to eliminate Italy without at least one fleet in Ionian! > And, you know, if I were reasonably confident that you were 'finishing up' > your northern escapade, I would definitely be wanting that A Mun to go to > Tyo when it *is* kicked out of there, eventually, by two or three English > armies that after all really do have to go down into Burgundy and > thereabouts, just for your defenses. (That's the reason they go there, but > what they do once they're in the neighborhood you just can't tell, that's > the problem with soldiers in France, you know, they tend to get a little > wild.) I think a combination of my taking Sweden and you NOT retreating to Burgandy would be definite factors in my re-evaluation. > So, I hope you're seeing my ideas, at least. I don't *think* they are risky > for you. They don't involve any outright immediate betrayal of Austria for > you. I'd just like you to get into a better position where you don't have > to worry so much about what Dave thinks... and it would be nice if that > would happen before I start spurting blood out of the jugular. Or aorta, or > some other serious spot. (Hm, F Jug -Aor, that's worth considering.) You > give me the chance, I'll remove Dave's threat for you. My pleasure. A small > favor. > :-) I am seeing your ideas and I'm agreeing with them (for the most part). And as for your small favour, I certainly accept (even if you Yanks can't spell it... ) Spring of next year will most likely give us a clue as to how we're going to proceed (or for that matter, if we're a "we"! although I suspect it will happen). Later Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cutting to the chase: Sure, I'm offering Munich. What am I offering it in exchange for, by the way? Oooh. Wait, I don't have my map up right now, just that mental one I have with kind of fuzzy boundaries. Hm. Let me look at my other mail, then I'll look at my map, I think I see your point. If I do, then yes, I am offering Munich, for sure. Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Ok, I think I have the picture now. >Perhaps, but you'll pardon any skepticism I might feel towards you >arrranging to give me any of your centres...Well, by all means be skeptical, but here's my perspective: you're going to get those centers (even if you can't spell it). Under most ordinary game circumstances, I'd try to keep the invader out as long as possible, even if I knew he was going to get them. But I don't feel I have much of an interest in doing that. What I want is for you to be ready to move on to your next phase *while I'm still in good shape*. I think I might have some trouble in the south if this keeps up much longer. I mean, I know I will. Certainly if/when I start disbanding. So I prefer to get it done with sooner. If that means 'letting' you get your centers a little earlier, I can swallow hard and do that. >[Not terribly Kreskin-esque attempt at hypnosis snipped...] [Darn it, I'm going to demand my money back from that charlatan, he swore it would work] >With an army on the continent this upcoming turn, I can keep you out of >Paris and Manus can keep you out of Marseilles. That's true, yes. Hm. Well, of course, you'd have to keep me out of Bel and Hol, too. That takes more units. I know it isn't a disaster for you, but I'm trying to make the alternatives seem relatively more attractive. >Austria as a little puddle won't be a bad thing. Later. Right now he's >my buffer against you while I continue to grow. Are you offering me >Munich? Yes, pretty much, I am. See below. >> Oh, but the answer is so simple: don't remove me from Munich! > >I guess that answers my question about you offering Munich... :) Well, see, I wasn't in fact offering Munich for this year -- I was supposing that you could/would let me keep it with the understanding that you'd have no trouble getting it later. But I'm changing my tune. >I think a combination of my taking Sweden and you NOT retreating to >Burgandy would be definite factors in my re-evaluation. Aha. Right, ok. So, here's my new idea. If you take Munich and I retake Berlin, then the net is a transfer of Munich from Austria to you, which is just what I want. As things stand, you can do this without at all crossing Austria 'out loud', so to speak. Because of the way I'd have to use my forces to retake Berlin, you'd easily get Sweden -- I know, you'll very likely get it anyway, but this would make it a sure thing. So you'd add Mun and Swe that way. Now the question is, if that's how things go, and if I retreat Mun-Tyo, is that going to be enough for you? Will you change tacks next year? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
I think it may very well be (virtually) too late to stop Cal from winning. I think he's going to take Munich. He'll convoy his army to Belgium. He'll take Sweden, and he'll build three, including at least one army. From Munich he will move to Tyrolia. At that point, there is no stalemate line left for the East. Cal will have no trouble getting Stp or Berlin. That's fifteen. You would have to stop him from getting Spa and Mar, or it would be over, because the A Tyo can get him the last center. Since I don't believe you are going to take the necessary precautions this season or even next season, I think he can win if he goes for it. I'm just hoping he still has the old "Gotta Stop Russia" mindset. Dave can't do much about this either, unless he blocks Tyrolia, which I doubt he'll do. I'll be doing well if I only go down two this year. When that happens, even Cal isn't going to continue to believe I'm the one who's a threat. If he really does believe it now. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
I am sick today (and yesterday). Shouldn't even be at work (wasn't yesterday) but here I am. Feeling just horrible. Anyway, got your mails, have no energy for anything but a quickie response. If you think Cal is about to win, you should attack him. I understand why you sold the north for the south, hoping Cal would not head your way, but if it didn't work and if you are now rethinking that decision and encouraging similar rethinking in me, perhaps it is time to make peace with Dave and all hit Cal. I know you wanted Dave dead rather than part of a three-way, but am not sure we would be in any different boat, or that the two of us could do it then if it needs to be done. Sorry so short. What you just read may very well be the product of delerium, so forgive if so. Sickly, Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Sorry you're sick. You probably caught it from me. It's one of those e-mail viruses. Look, I have said this repeatedly. There was no way for me to stop Cal from taking my centers in the north. There was nothing I could do. He had far more units, and England practically always has much better position in a fight against Russia. If I thought I could beat Cal in the north, I *certainly* would have done it. He stabbed me! That's my favorite time and place to fight! But it was pointless. So my options were, use lots of units to try to *slow* Cal while allowing you and Dave to take my southern centers, or just try to slow him with the units I had up there while preventing you and Dave from taking my southern centers. For a while I thought I had other options, but you foreclosed them. So faced with those, it was pretty obvious what I was going to do. I said all of this earlier. And then I did it. Just what do you mean by "sold the north for the south"? What do you think I could have done up there? Well, back to the present. I may have just been feeling pessimistic when I sent that last note. It's not so clear that Cal could even get into the Med. I'm going to make one suggestion. I'm not going to keep nudging you about it in these coming phases. It's possible that I can take Berlin away from Austria this coming move. Not just possible, I *can*. And it sure looks like I'm going to reduce Austria by one in his core area. Not just looks-like, I *will*. If you took Smyrna instead of Dave having it, that would leave him pretty barren. At that point, you could probably just build an army and take Venice -- or you could move Nap-Apu now and be certain of getting Ven next year. I'd offer Gre, Tri, or whatever, to build up your forces, and you would be welcome to leave the A Smy in case I had to give you another center too. You'd have three or four fleets to block Cal, which would be enough. The only issue would be whether I could set up a big line east of Switz and also take out Dave. I looked at the position, and I think I can do that. Just keep in mind that Cal is going to build three units. If you think the unit in Lvp is going to be an army, well, I don't know what to say. And you're fighting in Asia Minor. Tsar J