| Press for Spring of 1910 in pouchtoo |
Movement
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
An army in Liverpool! Well, that's a surprise. I'll have to ponder that. Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >An army in Liverpool! > >Well, that's a surprise. I'll have to ponder that. While you're at it, ponder my deep, sincere desire for peace with someone, anyone (and it could be you!). :) Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Ah! Ok, I'll keep it in mind. I empathize, of course. ;-) Tsar J
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Seriously, I was waiting for a last minute note from my secret > co-conspirator. My moves will be in in a couple of minutes... > Sorry; if you mean me, I apologize. I was away from the computer yesterday. I removed the Turkish army but am very interested in reacquiring Spain and then re-establishing some agreements with you. Manus
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Jamie, I'm responding to just you first as I haven't decided if we want to bring this up with Manus. I don't know what Cal will do, but I think that if I were in his position I would NOT cover Paris. Munich is a lost cause (more on that in a minute) so I'd do Mun - Bur, Bel s Mun - Bur. Sure Manus can retreat to Paris, but then in the fall you have Ruh- Mun (to cut support for Par - Bur), Bur - Par, Gas s Bur - Par. Now, even if you lose Bur to Mun, you have armies in Gas, Par, Bel and Ruh. Manus's army ends up in Picardy, still annoying, but not deadly. As to Munich, I see us doing the following in the spring: Tyr - Mun, Boh s Tyr - Mun, Sil s Tyr - Mun, Bal - Kie, Ber s Lvn - Pur, Lvn - Pru I expect that Cal will attack Bal from Pru, if he doesn't then the fleet may well be destroyed. No matter what he does we keep Berlin and get Munich, which is why I'd send it to Bur if I were him. Haven't gotten around to looking at how to deal with the other issue yet. Your thoughts? (I'm going for lunch, so I'll be back in an hour or so.) Kaiser D > He may not have much choice about it, you know. > > Let's see. Yeah. Look, he has to cover Paris, right? With the A Gas. You > could move Bur-Gas. Cal may be building a fleet to go to Iri or Eng, but I > think he's going to want to build two fleets to make sure he can contain my > F Bal. That would mean that in the Fall you could have Gas, Mar, and Wes > all against Spain, with Naf-MAO. Or you could order an attack on MAO, with > Gas-Bre and Mar-Spa, getting in if Por is supporting Spain. > > You have real chances now, I think. These drop to just peskiness with the A > Bur if Cal sails another fleet west, but then I have real chances myself. > > This next year ought to be quite interesting. > > > Tsar J >
Message from Austria to Russia and Italy in
'pouchtoo': > > Ok, so, any suggestions? > > I think we can let Manus do something aggressive with A Bur. We don't need > any help taking Munich, right Dave? I think it's obvious, but we can just > work that out between us. > Yes, we can take Munich without Bur. A couple of choices it would seem, go for Paris or go for Gas seem the best. > I am hoping that Manus will feel secure enough to send that F Rom toward > GoL, where it might get him Spain. What do you think, Manus? > How ugly would Spa - Gol be? I don't think it makes sense, but have to consider it. > I don't understand the point of the A Lvp. I guess we'll see soon. Any guesses? > Got me. It sure looked like he should have had two fleets to me! Gotta run, let me know if there's anything I need to do! Kaiser D
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> I agree about how to take Munich. So I'll take that as settled. > Check. > If Cal does that trick of letting Manus take Paris, though, he may have a > hard time defending both Spain and MAO, right? I don't think that F Lon is > going to English Channel -- I think it has to go to Nth, to keep me from > getting Den or Swe with my F Bal. The English F Bre will be useless because > of Par-Bre, so Cal will have to choose whether F Por defends Spain or MAO. > Manus would have a guess. > Hmmm. He's got fleets in Nwy, Swe, Kie and Pru. You've got the army in Stp. Lots of guessing going on. One rewrite on the previously listed moves would be: Kie - Den, Swe s Kie - Den, Mun - Kie, Ruh - Bur. The problem is he gives up Ruhr and I'm not sure he wants to do that. I don't get that army, much better to be doing Lon - Eng, Edi - Nth this turn. > Of course, that may just happen anyway, there isn't a lot Cal can do about > it. He can improve his chances a little, that's all. > > At the moment I'm thinking that you'll stab for Rome and Nap in the Fall. > If so, then we don't care much whether Manus gains Paris or Spain. But if > Manus gets nervy and keeps the F Rom where it is, then we really prefer > that Manus *not* get another build. Obvious. Isn't it? > Ayup. > Tsar J > Kaiser D
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Ok, so, any suggestions? I think we can let Manus do something aggressive with A Bur. We don't need any help taking Munich, right Dave? I think it's obvious, but we can just work that out between us. I am hoping that Manus will feel secure enough to send that F Rom toward GoL, where it might get him Spain. What do you think, Manus? I don't understand the point of the A Lvp. I guess we'll see soon. Any guesses? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
I agree about how to take Munich. So I'll take that as settled. If Cal does that trick of letting Manus take Paris, though, he may have a hard time defending both Spain and MAO, right? I don't think that F Lon is going to English Channel -- I think it has to go to Nth, to keep me from getting Den or Swe with my F Bal. The English F Bre will be useless because of Par-Bre, so Cal will have to choose whether F Por defends Spain or MAO. Manus would have a guess. Of course, that may just happen anyway, there isn't a lot Cal can do about it. He can improve his chances a little, that's all. At the moment I'm thinking that you'll stab for Rome and Nap in the Fall. If so, then we don't care much whether Manus gains Paris or Spain. But if Manus gets nervy and keeps the F Rom where it is, then we really prefer that Manus *not* get another build. Obvious. Isn't it? Tsar J
Message from Observer to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, I am flattered by your inclusion of me in your Sinatra article, but as my internet service is provided by my *employer* (Emory University), I will ask that you remove the link to my email account please. ASAP. I haven't finished reading your article. Rave reviews will be forthcoming. Yours, Jim
Message from Observer to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, Great lyrics! I also really enjoyed your Christmas carols last year (Let Him Grow? Hilarious). Thanks for the humor, Jim
Message from Observer to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, Can you copy back to me my Tender Trap lyrics? I killed them accidentally... Thanks, and Go Padres, Jim
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': > >> Seriously, I was waiting for a last minute note from my secret >> co-conspirator. My moves will be in in a couple of minutes... >> >Sorry; if you mean me, I apologize. I was away from the computer >yesterday. Well, yeah, kinda, but I was mostly trying to sow some dissent... ;) I removed the Turkish army but am very interested in >reacquiring Spain and then re-establishing some agreements with you. That army in Burgandy makes things a bit rough. I have this real thing about units behind my lines (which was why I asked you to remove it). Hopefully, it can be moved away from its very (to me) threatening position to where we can deal. Until then I have to do my best to get rid of it myself. I hope you'll understand that and it won't affect any deals we can cut. Cal
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
Wow. We really need to talk. Okay, I'll try to get some time soon. Right now, I'm late getting home and you barely caught me. Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Well, yeah, kinda, but I was mostly trying to sow some dissent... ;) > :-) > That army in Burgandy makes things a bit rough. I have this real thing > about units behind my lines (which was why I asked you to remove it). > You think having someone with a unit behind your lines is icky, try having someone actually take one of your own supply centers! I can understand you not liking Burgundy, but I don't think I'm the only one who should bend over backwards here. My men now speak Spanish and have nowhere to practice. Manus
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Greetings Tsar. I think we are all set in the north: Ber s Bal - Kie, Bal - Kie, Lvn - Pru, Sil s Tyr - Mun Tyr - Mun, Boh s Tyr - Mun, Tri - Tyr Best guess for the far north is Stp - Fin, Mos - Stp. I think he's going to have some problems with you. He has to worry about covering Den, Swe and not losing Kie. Should be interesting. In the south I have some doubts though. Moving to Alb only has one purpose, the convoy, and I don't see how I can convince Manus otherwise when he asks why I did it. Do you have an explanation you think he'd buy? If not, some options: 1) I go to Greece to "balance" with you as I think you'll get another center in the north. 2) I go to Greece, you go to Con, prepartory to exchanging Greece for Smyrna to consolidate our positions (then you can even take Ank) but this might trip lots of alarm bells as well. 3) I go to Greece as a mini "stab" which I explain as just being careful and I'll move out in the fall, much as Manus was trying to do in Turkey. 4) ???? Okay, check that this is going to Russia. Check. Off it goes. Kaiser D
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Ber s Bal - Kie, Bal - Kie, Lvn - Pru, Sil s Tyr - Mun >Tyr - Mun, Boh s Tyr - Mun, Tri - Tyr Looks good. >Best guess for the far north is Stp - Fin, Mos - Stp. I have no A Mos. It's an A War. >In the south I have some doubts though. Moving to Alb only has one >purpose, the convoy, and I don't see how I can convince Manus otherwise >when he asks why I did it. I have to agree. But, I don't think you need to move to Alb, actually. Consider: Either Manus moves Rom-Tys, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then unless we are convinced that he will move to TyS in the Fall, we can't stab him this year. If he does move out, then you don't need to stab into Naples in the Fall, just taking Rome is good enough. If you like, you could take Naples with the fleet in the Fall, planning Tri-Adr, Nap-Ion in S1911, and planning to hold the line with F Nap S F Ion. What we are hoping is that Manus moves that F Rom all the way to GoL this year. All problems solved that way. I guess I think you ought to move Ser-Tri. Is that suspicious? Not particularly, I think. >1) I go to Greece to "balance" with you as I think you'll get another > center in the north. Oooh, I don't think so! There is a chance I get another center in the north, but I think it's fairly unlikely. On the other hand, if you go to Gre in the Spring with the secret idea of convoying it to Nap, that would be ok with me. (Could we agree that if Manus looks like he's going to be guarding his home centers, you would get the army out of Greece?) >2) I go to Greece, you go to Con, prepartory to exchanging Greece for > Smyrna to consolidate our positions (then you can even take Ank) > but this might trip lots of alarm bells as well. I do think that might be a little too alarming, yes. Too bad, it is otherwise a good solution. Well, let's see. Ok, if you feel that it's important to get to the coast, you have my permission to move to Gre, on the condition: that you agree *not* to actually take Greece. Ok? (checking.... "press to a", check.) Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> I have no A Mos. It's an A War. > Whatever for? (<: I would assume then that you will do War - Pru, Lvn s War - Pru? Strangely enough, Stp - Fin still could be a good move. > > Either Manus moves Rom-Tys, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then unless we > are convinced that he will move to TyS in the Fall, we can't stab him this > year. If he does move out, then you don't need to stab into Naples in the > Fall, just taking Rome is good enough. If you like, you could take Naples > with the fleet in the Fall, planning Tri-Adr, Nap-Ion in S1911, and > planning to hold the line with F Nap S F Ion. What we are hoping is that > Manus moves that F Rom all the way to GoL this year. All problems solved > that way. > Hmm, is taking Rom sufficient. As you say, if he is all the way to Gol, then I've got A Rom, F Nap, A Ven (from Tri). Build F Tri, spring move is Nap - Ion, Tri - Adr, Rom - Nap, Ven - Rom (possibly Tyr - Ven, Vie - Tyr) Guess that does work. And of course you go take Ank the next year. I think I have to move Ion - Nap at the same time. If I don't, then if Manus moves Tys back to Rom we take no centers and it gets ugly. This way we take Nap and I still get that important fleet build. That does bring up a problem with moving Ser to Tri though. If I bounce in Rom I would still be in Tri and would not be able to build a fleet! With Manus having a fleet in Rom and my having A Ven, F Nap, F Tri, A Tyr how do we look? He can fall back to Tys and Tun immediately, I have to move Nap - Ion, Tri - Adr, Ven - Rom/Apu, Tyr - Ven. Might need you to come Pie - Tus, but we need your Pie. Get's a little sticky doesn't it? > I guess I think you ought to move Ser-Tri. Is that suspicious? Not > particularly, I think. > > > >1) I go to Greece to "balance" with you as I think you'll get another > > center in the north. > > Oooh, I don't think so! There is a chance I get another center in the > north, but I think it's fairly unlikely. > On the other hand, if you go to Gre in the Spring with the secret idea of > convoying it to Nap, that would be ok with me. (Could we agree that if > Manus looks like he's going to be guarding his home centers, you would get > the army out of Greece?) > Sorry. That was why I put "balance" in quotes. I was not proposing my taking the center, only going there for the convoy. Balance was only for explanation to Manus. > >2) I go to Greece, you go to Con, prepartory to exchanging Greece for > > Smyrna to consolidate our positions (then you can even take Ank) > > but this might trip lots of alarm bells as well. > > I do think that might be a little too alarming, yes. Too bad, it is > otherwise a good solution. > > Well, let's see. > Ok, if you feel that it's important to get to the coast, you have my > permission to move to Gre, on the condition: that you agree *not* to > actually take Greece. Ok? > Well, it doesn't actually increase the stab potential (hmmm, convoy to Tunis?) so maybe it's not worth the danger signal. I could just do Ser - Bul (bouncing), a security move designed to keep you in place, protecting both Manus and I! On the other hand if he does fall back and bounce in Rom, then A Ven, A Nap, F Ion, F Tri is better than A Ven, F Nap, F Tri. Keep thinking on this. I'm leaving at 3:00 today, so we need to decide by then. How about Sev. You don't need it for the attack on Manus, is it going up to Mos? If it does, then you can safely move Stp - Fin this turn, and in the fall, if you are getting a build, then you can do a bounce with Fin hitting Nwy (to prevent Cal supporting either Lvn or Mos to Stp) thus guaranteeing that it will be open for a fleet build. > > (checking.... "press to a", check.) Check. Whoops, that's press to r, not a. check. > Tsar J > Kaiser D
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': Well, I've put my orders in before a sudden business trip. They seem pretty cut and dried. First, I'm sending Rome to Tuscany. Yes, that fleet should have been in the Gulf of Lyon. Stupid move by me last turn. First to admit it. Cost us a tempo. Bad Manus. Stupid Manus. What were you thinking, Manus? Etc., etc. But it's going to Tuscany in case Dave wants TYS instead of Tunis. Feel free to visit Tunis, though, for the Springtime if we're sure you can leave it by year's end. Maybe Cal would be interested in believing you're taking me out. Also if you do Ven-Rom to visit Rome for the Spring, too. YOu might be able to find out his Fall moves against me if you can convince him that you are ready to cut me loose. As far as his moves this turn, I have a pretty sure feeling that he will NOT allow the Bur-Gas that I just ordered to succeed. I think we'll see Gas S Bel-Bur, and I retreat to Paris but can't hold it. From there, though, I might be able to cut a support on MAO and we can take it for sure in Fall. However, Cal has some good moves, and I wouldn't be surprised to see MAO-Gas, Gas-Par. Leaves me in Burgundy, but the Falltime Bre S MAO is uncuttable. I don't think my rogue army is going to be able to do much unless you guys can break through. It'll cause as much trouble as it can, but it's pretty bottled up and may soon end up being a new unit in Rome. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': Oh, I never finished telling you guys the rest of my boring moves. Marseilles and Western Med are just holding and receiving support (WES from NAf and Mar from Jamie). I agree that Spa-LYO is a nightmare for us (BAD Manus!!!) Cal's press to me SEEMS to indicate he's willing to try and make peace with me so he can fight you guys. Not sure I believe it, but if true, hopefully we won't see Spa-Lyo. He as much as said, though, that Burgundy is a mission for him -- he's going to take it out, but apologized beforehand, saying he hopes this necessary deed doesn't impact our negotiations of a settlement, including the return of Spain to me. If this is to be believed, LYO might stay empty. The one good thing about TYS-Rom is that Cal commented on it thus: (paraphrased) "given that you moved to Rome, you're obviously concerned about its safety, so getting you to remove that unit is probably out of the question, so how about Burgundy?" (Of course Burgundy is all he cared about, but just the fact that he broached it in this humorous way might show that he would be inclined to believe in the realism of a Ven-Rom, ION-Tun, Bul-Con stab of me by you guys. I would hope that if you guys do like this plan of subterfuge, it would (1) work in enabling you to get Cal's moves against me so that we three could have a profitable Fall together and (2) that I don't end up losing any of my four little dots. :-) Forgive my relapse into Bad Manus mode, but if everything goes to pieces now, this could be my last year in the game. If Tri-Ven, Ven-Rom, ION-Tun, Bul-Con (as I myself suggested) in the Spring, and Rom-Nap, Ven-Rom, Con-Ank, and Pie (don't support Mar) in the Fall, then I'm history. To tell you the truth: when I saw the A Lvp build, this is what went through my mind (and it still goes thru it, I'm afraid): Cal is negotiating for my elimination with Dave and Jamie, showing them that the fleets through Gibraltar won't be enough to give him the win, and they can afford to take me out. He could have waived, but then Dave and Jamie would have considered it just an unbuilt fleet. As it is, it's a definite non-fleet, that can't really even move anywhere for at least a year. Which is just the time it would take them to show me the door. Jamie asked what my opinion of the A Lvp build was, and well, that's it. Frankly, it's what I would have done if I were him, and I think I make a pretty good case for my own elimination. :-( Given the position I'm in, though, I have nothing to do but trust that I'll be permitted to continue out of the goodness of your heart and the deep-seated desire that I/A/R can convoy Dave to Clyde for that glass of whiskey. If not (Bad Manus for thinking it! [right??]), well, I've made enough mistakes in this game to deserve a 1910 elimination; that's for sure. But here's hoping. Gotta run now. Talk to you Thursday. Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, it's time for some affirmative action. :) I'm going to pull back from the north and concentrate on defending the lowlands, France and Iberia. You're welcome to retake Sweden, Denmark, Kiel & Munich. Once that's done, can we consider each other as having taken our kick at the can and resume our drive for a two-way? Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
What an interesting development. Well, looks like you ought to move Ven-Rom, Ion-TyS! And I'll certainly accept the invitation to move Bul-Con. I have half a mind to leave StP open for a build this winter.... but I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. If I *can* get another northern fleet, you know, it would not be crazy to think we could make a run for the money. Our main problem would be that we'd each have some builds (you would be getting three this winter!) and consequent units that could rather threaten each other, since they'd be hard to 'activate' to the front lines. But we could always waive them, expecting to build fleets in subsequent moves.... Anyway, Manus appears to be intent on suicide. Who am I to stand in his way? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': I don't exactly follow all of these subtle points, but if Manus is going to make that excessively odd move Rom-Tus, I will have to insist that Dave play Ion-TyS, and not Ion-Tun. Deception is fun, but we do need some way to stop Cal from jumping into GoL and spreading mayhem. I'll go along with this confusing scheme in what I say to Cal. If he can be coaxed into shifting his forces into France, I'm all for that! I promise to take advantage of the opportunity. Dave, don't make Manus too anxious with Tri-Ven, if you do go for this Ven-Rom thing. Tri-Tyo, please, with Tyo-Mun (which I'm supporting, as agreed). Manus, Cal certainly hasn't consulted me about any special trick involving the A Lvp. Still, you are probably essentially correct, I suppose he'll move to Eng and Lvp-Wal for a convoy to Pic or something. I've already ordered Pie S Mar, I won't change that. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
So then I started thinking, what if Cal really is going to shift heavily to the SW?? Maybe our best bet is to keep Manus alive! But, off hand, I think not. Too many things could go wrong. Seems to me we should still eliminate him and *then* try our luck, taking the 'plateau' of a sure 3-way and moving on from there. Well, we can just make the obvious moves and then change our collective mind in the Fall and stay out of Rom, Nap, Ank. What do you think? Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
My, my, my. Certainly makes me glad I delayed any notes about Greece until after the weekend (<:. I guess the obvious move is to just play along at this point. I think Tri to Tyr is probably better as you mentioned, I like having the strong force on Munich. That should leave Munich free to do whatever it wants in the fall as Boh/Tyr can make a supported attack on it to cover it. Maybe we can get a shot at Kiel. I guess I do go to Rome at this point, put the fleet in Tys and we'll figure the rest out in the fall. Kaiser D
Message from Austria to Russia and Italy in
'pouchtoo': > I don't exactly follow all of these subtle points, but if Manus is going to > make that excessively odd move Rom-Tus, I will have to insist that Dave > play Ion-TyS, and not Ion-Tun. Deception is fun, but we do need some way to > stop Cal from jumping into GoL and spreading mayhem. > Okay, Ion - Tys > I'll go along with this confusing scheme in what I say to Cal. If he can be > coaxed into shifting his forces into France, I'm all for that! I promise to > take advantage of the opportunity. > > Dave, don't make Manus too anxious with Tri-Ven, if you do go for this > Ven-Rom thing. Tri-Tyo, please, with Tyo-Mun (which I'm supporting, as > agreed). > Okay, Ven - Rom, Tri - Tyo, Tyo - Mun. I'm easy (<:. > Manus, Cal certainly hasn't consulted me about any special trick involving > the A Lvp. Still, you are probably essentially correct, I suppose he'll > move to Eng and Lvp-Wal for a convoy to Pic or something. > I have heard nothing about it either. If it was a diplomatic ploy he does not seem to be making good use of it. > I've already ordered Pie S Mar, I won't change that. > Please don't! Kaiser D. See you all in Clyde!
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I was hoping I'd have a chance to examine everything carefully today, but for some reason I let myself be distracted with actual work! What a loser I am. In any case, I agree that it will be nice if you can do something with your A Mun in the Fall, so having A Tyo and A Boh is advantageous. Wouldn't it be cool if you got three builds this year, and I got two (for Ank and Kie, maybe)? Cal tells me he will be moving to shore up his line in the west. Maybe he'll give me a little window to take a thing or two in Scandinavia. But I'll try not to get too excited yet. Maybe after we see the actual Spring results. Don't forget to move Ser-Tri. Tri-Ven on the stabbing move will be important. That way you get total command over the Boot. I wonder what Manus is really thinking??? Is this some bizarre trap? Is he throwing the game *now*, and trying to prevent you from making the really killing moves? I bet we'd draw anyway. ;-) Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>I'm going to pull back from the north and concentrate on defending the >lowlands, France and Iberia. You're welcome to retake Sweden, Denmark, Kiel >& Munich. Ok! (You'll pardon me for thinking, "I'll believe it when I see it.") >Once that's done, can we consider each other as having taken our kick at the >can and resume our drive for a two-way? I think so. It's hard to say sure without seeing the position, of course. This time will *you* attack Austria first? ;-) Tsar J
Retreat
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I hope you consider yourself "shown"... ;) Can we work together now? BTW, is the move to Rome the precursor of an Austrian stab? Or do you know? Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Wow, dramatic. >Can we work together now? I think so. But I have to assess the total situation. I mean, next time I stab Austria, I'd better be prepared to finish the job, don't you think? He won't forgive me twice. >BTW, is the move to Rome the precursor of an Austrian stab? >Or do you know? Oh, well, it would certainly appear that way. Of course, that might just be what he *wants* you to think. ;-) Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
That could hardly have gone better. Cal's just showing off, he didn't *tell* me he was going to give me all those openings, so the 'support' was not genuine. However, he may very well be willing to give me Sweden, if I can get it. Off hand, I really do think I'm going to try to keep Stp open for the winter. (Probably need some ice cutters.) He now definitely wants me to stab you and 'share in a 2-way'. I will not exactly be surprised if he's telling you roughly the same thing. On the other hand, he might be planning to make you paranoid enough to stab me. If and when you want to call off the whole deal and settle for a 3-way, just say the word. Oh, hmm. I'm assuming that the best plan is still to remove Manus right away. Maybe not. Hmmmmm. Well, I think that is the best plan, actually. Here's why. Cal is going to seal off Gibraltar and stalemate everything west of Switz. Therefore, the only way we could press the attack would be on the east side of the board. Therefore, we can't really make that much use of Manus. Well, what I really mean is that 'our' growth would probably turn out to be *my* growth, very unhealthy for an alliance. Whereas if you do take out Manus, you get substantial growth out of that stab. Uh. I think. I guess I'm not awake enough to figure this out at the moment. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
(Here's something I'll leave waiting for your Thursday return.) So, did that work, or didn't it??? Just looking at the board, I must say that I don't like your chances very much. I thought you might have something very surprising up your sleeve with that last suggestion, but it looks like you've just set yourself up as prettily as can be. You'd better explain to Dave why he's better off with you alive. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> (Here's something I'll leave waiting for your Thursday return.) > Am checking my mail from San Fran. > So, did that work, or didn't it??? > Haven't looked, but.... > Just looking at the board, I must say that I don't like your chances very > much. > It doesn't sound good. > I thought you might have something very surprising up your sleeve > with that last suggestion, but it looks like you've just set yourself up as > prettily as can be. > I tried and tried to come up with a surprise, but in the end decided that I was between a rock and a hard place and I chose the rock. From what you say, the rock is going to crush me, huh? > You'd better explain to Dave why he's better off with you alive. > If you come up with a reason, let me know. I'll take a look at the moves, but I don't hold out much hope for myself. Especially not if you don't. Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
Well, at least I'll get to see Picardy before I die. Uh, care to convoy me anywhere? Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Am checking my e-mail from San Francisco. Jamie suggests that I might ask you to let me know if you need me to explain to you why I'd prove better off alive than dead.... :-) Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
What I have to ask you is short and sweet. You might say no, but I have to ask. Obviously, my two "partners" have decided that they can do without me. Venice to Rome and Bulgaria to Constantinople make it pretty clear that I've been tossed overboard. I'm surprised to see ION-TYS instead of directly into Tunis; I had obviously told them I was going to Tuscany in hopes that Dave would take the TYS route instead of Tunis. Rome was not discussed. Tri-Ven would have eliminated me, basically (ignoring that I can bounce him out of Tunis), but since it didn't happen, at least I will survive the year. Here is my proposal. Like I say, you could just laugh and tell me to lie down in the bed I made for myself, but at least I'll have asked. Hand me a couple of SC's, to make up for the losses. You choose the two and they can be as guaranteed re-takeable for you as you want. In return, I will of course use the full force I have to finally punish Dave the way I should have done long ago. I'll be, basically, a good puppet for you. Southern fleets. Fleets in the Med that will move on your command. Stuff like that, you know. It's all I have to bargain with, but I figure it's around a 50-50 shot that you're open to it. Gotta take the chance and ask. I know that's asking a lot, but as someone once told me, if you don't ask, you don't get. Frankly, you look like my last hope now, and like I say, all I ever wanted was a stalemate line anyway, and never considered myself at war with you (I wish you hadn't taken Spain, though, that's true; I didn't want to fight you, and frankly, I think that your take of Spain encouraged in Dave the idea to do what he just did because he knew that I was committed now to the western war I never wanted). While I have you, I'll say that I think your army build was also an attempt to convince Jamie and Dave to give me the old heave-ho. Seems like you were sending them a message that they could afford to take the year it would take to kill me and not have any extra worries about fleets sailing around Gibraltar. If that is indeed your motivation for the build, all my pleading in this message is probably falling on deaf ears. So all I can do is hope. I sure would like it if my appeal to you would succeed. I can only imagine what Jamie and Dave would do if they saw that their clean-up of me does not harm me and my units all come after them. I also think this kind of thing would be a very nice turn to throw into a demo game. I think a lot of people (newbies) in my position might not think to look to you as a potential savior. If you think you can afford to help me, I think the game would only be all the more instructive when it finally goes down in whatever the annals of hobby history are. I'm not saying that you should help me for those reasons, exactly. I mean, you obviously should play the best game you can and not let any out-of-game considerations (like how instructive this might be) factor in. However, I point this out only because what *I* am doing by asking is playing the best game I can from the position that *I* now find myself in. Whether I succeed or fail is kind of up to you, but good Diplomacy demands that I ask you to prop me up while they eat me, and hope to persuade you that it is in your best interests to do so (I hope you agree that it is -- if you need me to sell you more, I will indeed respond to any request to do so). At this point, I would much rather be working for you, perhaps to a solo for you (but well, I'd rather you reward me for the useful work I do by NOT stabbing me, but if you do, so be it), than work with them any more. Did I day that what I had to ask you was short and sweet? Sorry, it looks like it turned out to be, perhaps, neither. But with hopes for an affirmative response (else I will be writing my epitaph), I remain, still, at least for now, Manus
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo':
> It seems to me that every time I think this game is going to end one way,
> or some 'set' course of events is going to play out, I am always proven
> wrong.
>
> Yet another interesting turn of events...
>
That's the second compliment for my, "why don't you guys stab me now?"
plan. At least I'm entertaining the observers! Little do they know that
I asked for it.
Now what remains to be seen is twofold:
(1) if you guys and I can convince England that you guys are finishing
me off. If so, I believe we can gain a big advantage in the Fall.
(2) whether you guys will indeed let me live, and turn it into just the
Spring visits I suggested. Best case for me (and, if things work out,
for you as well (he won't be expecting an Italian attack on him this
turn, I don't think) and especially if Cal writes to me saying what I
hope he will....
Manus