| Press for Fall of 1911 in pouchtoo |
Movement
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, he continues to surprise us! I'd say that this does put a little bit of a new perspective on things. He can actually keep you out of Sweden and put a double attack on Norway, but that would take 4 units (Nth, Ska, Den, Bal). If he did that, then he could possibly attack Hol with Kie supported by Ruh and Hel while Bur covers Bel. That would mean leaving Kie wide open however and I find it unlikely. I think that in the current situation I'm back to favoring my original proposal: Hol - Kie, Mun s Hol - Kie, Ber s Hol - Kie, Nwy - Swe, Fin s Nwy - Swe. However, I'm willing to make this your call, so just let me know what you want Mun to do, and if you want to take the safe route and just hold Norway that's agreeable. As to the future, we'll both build fleets this year. If you get a second one I think you should waive. Next year we can evaluate. I think it will be worthwhile for me to build a fleet, which would mean taking Gre >from you. However, if you can take a center or have one left from this year we might be able to have us both build as I could evict you from Piedmont and you could retreat it off the board. We can work those details out after this year is over. Thoughts? Kaiser D
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
I was surprised too, though I think really this doesn't change much. In effect, this retreat allows a little more support of Nth and a little less pressure on Norway. (In Sweden, he could attack Norway with support from Nth and still use Bal and Den for duty around Kie and Ber; now if he does that he just allows me to take Sweden.) >Hol - Kie, Mun s Hol - Kie, Ber s Hol - Kie, Nwy - Swe, Fin s Nwy - Swe. I guess I'm still inclined either to try for Nth or to attack Sweden the other way. I am betting that he will not bother to attack Norway, assuming that I will defend it. But I'm not quite sure yet what I ought to do. >However, I'm willing to make this your call, so just let me know what >you want Mun to do, and if you want to take the safe route and just >hold Norway that's agreeable. I don't think I want to take the safe route. But I will indeed let you know about Mun. (I think I want you to order it to Ruhr, actually.) >As to the future, we'll both build fleets this year. If you get a second >one I think you should waive. Next year we can evaluate. I think it >will be worthwhile for me to build a fleet, which would mean taking Gre >from you. However, if you can take a center or have one left from this >year we might be able to have us both build as I could evict you from >Piedmont and you could retreat it off the board. We can work those >details out after this year is over. Off hand I agree with all of that. Sorry, I put this off too long and now I have to go. I'll come to final decisions tomorrow. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Ok, I've decided. Let's go with *your* hunch: >Hol - Kie, Mun s Hol - Kie, Ber s Hol - Kie, Nwy - Swe, Fin s Nwy - Swe. Maybe I take Kiel, maybe I can retreat to Nth, maybe I get Swe instead of Nwy. Any of these would leave me *some* chance of making progress, though if I take Swe instead of Nwy and lose that F Hol I think the chances will have dwindled pretty low. So I'll support Munich to hold, although you can do it adequately yourself. And remember to order Tus S Pie. Just to make sure everything's clear, here is my acknowledged set of orders: Russia: Army Constantinople -> Bulgaria. Russia: Army Prussia SUPPORT Army Berlin. Russia: Army Piedmont HOLD. Russia: Army Berlin SUPPORT Fleet Holland -> Kiel. Russia: Fleet Holland -> Kiel. Russia: Army Finland SUPPORT Fleet Norway -> Sweden. Russia: Army St Petersburg -> Moscow. Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Austrian Army Munich. Russia: Army Livonia HOLD. Russia: Fleet Norway -> Sweden. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Looks good to me, the only question I have is about the move to Bul. If we are going to trade back and forth I was thinking it might make sense for you to stay where you could take Smy. On the other hand I guess we can trade Greece back in forth as well. I'll send in my orders in the morning and then send you a copy so you can confirm things. Kaiser D. > Ok, I've decided. Let's go with *your* hunch: > > >Hol - Kie, Mun s Hol - Kie, Ber s Hol - Kie, Nwy - Swe, Fin s Nwy - Swe. > > Maybe I take Kiel, maybe I can retreat to Nth, maybe I get Swe instead of > Nwy. Any of these would leave me *some* chance of making progress, though > if I take Swe instead of Nwy and lose that F Hol I think the chances will > have dwindled pretty low. > > So I'll support Munich to hold, although you can do it adequately yourself. > > And remember to order Tus S Pie. > > Just to make sure everything's clear, here is my acknowledged set of orders: > > Russia: Army Constantinople -> Bulgaria. > Russia: Army Prussia SUPPORT Army Berlin. > Russia: Army Piedmont HOLD. > Russia: Army Berlin SUPPORT Fleet Holland -> Kiel. > Russia: Fleet Holland -> Kiel. > Russia: Army Finland SUPPORT Fleet Norway -> Sweden. > Russia: Army St Petersburg -> Moscow. > Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Austrian Army Munich. > Russia: Army Livonia HOLD. > Russia: Fleet Norway -> Sweden. > > Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Movement orders for Fall of 1911. (pouchtoo.046) > > Austria: Army Rome HOLD. > Austria: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Munich. > Austria: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Russian Army Piedmont. > Austria: Army Munich SUPPORT Russian Fleet Holland -> Kiel. > Austria: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Adriatic Sea -> Ionian Sea. > Austria: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Army Munich. > Austria: Fleet Adriatic Sea -> Ionian Sea. > Austria: Army Trieste -> Serbia. >
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Yawn. This game is getting boring, a la Gunboat boring. Maybe we should go to daily deadlines... d;-}) How does this look? F Tun-Ion; F Mar-Pie, s by F Lyo I'm going to move to Wes and take Paris (since you can't rebuild the fleet that got poofed, I may as well use the centre). Nothing from Jamie or Dave at all this turn. Jamie's last post basically asked me why I was wasting time. I should just eliminate you and take the three-way. Just thought you should know, sheer cussedness is going to make me include you in the draw if that's how it ends up. Ciaosers Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>> Movement orders for Fall of 1911. (pouchtoo.046) >> >> Austria: Army Rome HOLD. >> Austria: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Munich. >> Austria: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Russian Army Piedmont. >> Austria: Army Munich SUPPORT Russian Fleet Holland -> Kiel. >> Austria: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Adriatic Sea -> Ionian Sea. >> Austria: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Army Munich. >> Austria: Fleet Adriatic Sea -> Ionian Sea. Right. >> Austria: Army Trieste -> Serbia. Why? To trade in Gre if necessary? I'd like to see that army go to Ven, so that it can support me in Piedmont. Eventually Italy will get F Tys, and if he has F Tys, F Gol, UNIT Mar, Piedmont will need the support from Venice. You'll build a new fleet this winter, and you can use that to take Gre if necessary. If you want me to keep my A Con where it is, that's no problem. Tsar J
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Yawn. This game is getting boring, a la Gunboat boring. Maybe we should go > to daily deadlines... d;-}) > Well, the bad news is I'm out all next week (until 1 December) for the U.S. Thanksgiving. > How does this look? F Tun-Ion; F Mar-Pie, s by F Lyo > Done. > I'm going to move to Wes and take Paris (since you can't rebuild the fleet > that got poofed, I may as well use the centre). > Right. Go for it. > Nothing from Jamie or Dave at all this turn. > Here either. I suppose we should try and get Dave to attack Jamie. Maybe if I beg hard enough he'll let me have a home center back. Maybe I'm just dreaming, though. > Jamie's last post basically > asked me why I was wasting time. I should just eliminate you and take the > three-way. Just thought you should know, sheer cussedness is going to make > me include you in the draw if that's how it ends up. > In that case, put me down as a big fan of cussedness. Manus
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> >> Austria: Army Trieste -> Serbia. > A couple of reasons. One, the army going to Bul. Two, the ability to take Greece with the Army and thus leave the new fleet open for advancement. I think that requiring the third fleet to end the year in Greece puts a crimp on my options. I don't see Italy having Tys, Gol and Mar. If he does, then I have Tun! At the end of this year either all the fleets will still be where they are (gol - tys , tun - Ion) or he will have tun/tys and I will have Nap/Ion. If I have to move the new fleet to Gre in the fall, then it is not available to either support or move into Ion, which means I can't try to creep a fleet forward. As to supporting Pie, I think that Tyr can handle that task for a year or two if needed. Again, I don't think Italy will have Tus/gol/mar, but if he does, then Boh/Sil support Mun and Tyr/Tus s Pie. Also, if we end up in that configuration (an english fleet in Tys perhaps?) and army in Gre can go to Apu in a turn and then position to Ven. So, overall, I think it is a better strategy to move it to Serbia. Comments? Kaiser D > > Why? To trade in Gre if necessary? > > I'd like to see that army go to Ven, so that it can support me in Piedmont. > Eventually Italy will get F Tys, and if he has F Tys, F Gol, UNIT Mar, > Piedmont will need the support from Venice. > > You'll build a new fleet this winter, and you can use that to take Gre if > necessary. > > If you want me to keep my A Con where it is, that's no problem. > > Tsar J >
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Just wanted to drop you a note and ask you something. From the way the moves have played out the last couple of years, it seems as if you and Jamie are just content to let the game play out into a four way draw (although Jamie thinks I should take Manus out first). Is this true? I admit it seems as if it's the most likely thing that could happen. I suppose I could be content with that but I'd like to see if we can reduce it a bit more. As far as I can tell, the ONLY viable possibility for a two-way draw would seem to be you and I. I'm a long way now from being a risk to win either soon or in the near-to-remote future. Can we work anything out? I'd be willing to go for a two-way if we can take Jamie out. Question is, are you willing? Do you still see me as a threat to win if we do this? I'd like to get some comment from you. I know we've been discussing this mildly the last couple of years, but can we do anything concrete? If not, we may as well start voting for draws now... Hoping to hear something positivefrom you Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>> >> Austria: Army Trieste -> Serbia. >> >A couple of reasons. One, the army going to Bul. Ok, I've just offered to leave it in Con instead. > Two, the ability to >take Greece with the Army and thus leave the new fleet open for >advancement. I think that requiring the third fleet to end the year >in Greece puts a crimp on my options. It might delay one of your options, true. > I don't see Italy having Tys, >Gol and Mar. If he does, then I have Tun! At the end of this year >either all the fleets will still be where they are (gol - tys , tun - Ion) >or he will have tun/tys and I will have Nap/Ion. ??? Suppose GoL S Tun-Tys? Then he obviously does occupy Tys, GoL, and Mar, and you would not have Tunis. So I don't follow you. England will presumably order MAO-Wes, so he could cover Tun. Now I do think Tun S GoL-Tys is more likely, or possibly GoL-Tys and Tun-Ion. But even so it's just another season or two until the blue and green between them will be in GoL, Tun, Tys, and Mar. >As to supporting Pie, I think that Tyr can handle that task for a year or >two if needed. Again, I don't think Italy will have Tus/gol/mar, but if >he does, then Boh/Sil support Mun and Tyr/Tus s Pie. That's fine defensively, but it means you can't even attempt to move the A Mun. You couldn't use it to cut support from Kie, and you couldn't try to enter Ruh. I figure, we're only going to have a few smallish chances to make in-roads into the English position, and it'll be a shame if we have to hold back and lose one of those chances. > Also, if we end >up in that configuration (an english fleet in Tys perhaps?) and army >in Gre can go to Apu in a turn and then position to Ven. True. Ok, it's just that it doesn't seem to me that we are going to be in any hurry to get your fleets moving (since there aren't going to be any new AngloItalian fleets sent to that area), and we might be sorry if we had to devote A Tyo to defending Piedmont. But it's not *that* big a deal. Even the loss of Piedmont wouldn't be fatal. Tsar J
Build
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Damn, should have taken Sweden from Finland and ordered Hol-Nth. Oh well! I think the opportunity window has shut a little further. Let me see what we might have left. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Geez, I don't see anything left. If I guess right, I can hold on to Sweden for a while, but there are no openings for progress at all. Do you see anything? I do have one diplomatic idea I think I might try. Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Looks like your (erstwhile) friend's little visit to your Dip board didn't cost you anything in the end. I was really just considering two moves, and the other one would have netted me Sweden (without losing Norway). But honestly I think that just would have postponed the inevitable. So, anyway, as far as I can tell, there's nothing left in this phase of the game. Time for a realignment! I think we have to eliminate Italy. But there are basically two ways to proceed, I believe, and I don't know which one you (and Dave) will want to use. Tell me if you agree that this is the logical next step, and if so, how you suggest we go about it. (Or would you rather I made a suggestion?) Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
So, are you still intending to get Cal a win in this game? (Helicopters?) Or what's the plan? I think you do need a plan. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
First, sorry about the Serbia issue. I've gotten so used to someone having set wait on that I was assuming we could talk it out. I was considering doing it your way when the results suddenly came in! I guess the other would have worked better in the north, that would have put your army in Swe and the fleet retreating to Fin. Now it does look grim. Sorry I was so convincing! I heading home now and haven't had a chance to look at things. I'll do that over the weekend and see what I can come up with either diplomatically or tactically. Kaiser D.
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >Looks like your (erstwhile) friend's little visit to your Dip board didn't >cost you anything in the end. And here I killed him and burned the body for nothing. Damn, this could get awkward... >I was really just considering two moves, and >the other one would have netted me Sweden (without losing Norway). But >honestly I think that just would have postponed the inevitable. I'm glad you chose this one... >So, anyway, as far as I can tell, there's nothing left in this phase of the >game. Time for a realignment! Methinx that could be difficult, but I'm certainly willing to listen. >I think we have to eliminate Italy. But there are basically two ways to >proceed, I believe, and I don't know which one you (and Dave) will want to >use. > >Tell me if you agree that this is the logical next step, and if so, how you >suggest we go about it. (Or would you rather I made a suggestion?) Somehow, eliminating my only ally doesn't seem to have a whole lot of logic in it for me. I can see where you'd like my forces to be diverted from the north, but it gets a bit hazy after that. I can stonewall my way into a draw, but for the moment, it seems that any other move detracts from my position. No I won't raise the old saw about you attacking Dave first, but that's about what it would take. Of course, you're the one who raised the idea of re-alignment... hmmm. Cal
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Cal, I haven't had a chance to check out the results fully. I still think a two way would be rather anticlimatic. I'll try to look at it over the weekend and think of some strategies. Do the same and see if you can come up with some sort of plan that gives us a reasonable chance of success. -dave
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': >Hi Cal, > >I haven't had a chance to check out the results fully. I still think >a two way would be rather anticlimatic. I'll try to look at it over >the weekend and think of some strategies. Do the same and see if you >can come up with some sort of plan that gives us a reasonable chance >of success. Anticlimactic yes, but certainly less so than a cheesy three/four way, no? (Unless, of course YOU want to throw me the game too?) I'll try to come up with a plan that has at least some chance of success, but we have probably reached the point where it will take a season or two of subtle maneuvering to put it into effect. FYI, Jamie has already approached me with the idea of pulling off a "re-alignment" in the game. He wants me to put Manus out first as the price of this "re-alignment". Later, Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>Somehow, eliminating my only ally doesn't seem to have a whole lot of logic >in it for me. Why not? You get the lion's share of the spoils, and it loosens the position. Sure, you would then have a chance of losing, but you'd also have a chance of turning one of us. What happened to your "this is going to be the game that Calhamer always dreamed of" attitude? ;-) > I can see where you'd like my forces to be diverted from the >north, but it gets a bit hazy after that. Not at all. I don't see why you'd have to divert forces from the north. (If you tried, Manus would catch on pretty quick, so I figure you should just take Mar and Spa with the units that are down there already. If you move Par-Bur, which is entirely natural, I'll support you into Marseilles, and you can take Spain with the F Wes.) If it came to that, I'm sure you could spare one of those six northern fleets. Surely five would be enough to contain my mighty navy! And I do believe you are going to get Sweden back. And then when you stab Manus, you'll get a couple more builds. I hardly think you are going to be short of northern fleets. > I can stonewall my way into a draw, but >for the moment, it seems that any other move detracts from my position. Any other move than what? >No I won't raise the old saw about you attacking Dave first, but that's about >what it would take. I'm glad you didn't suggest that I should attack Austria first. You and I each have eleven centers. Manus has three, Dave has nine. The idea that to break up a stale position *I* should attack my nine-center neighbor instead of *you* eliminating your three-center neighbor would have been pretty absurd. Well, you think about it for a while. I'll get back to you Monday. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>First, sorry about the Serbia issue. I've gotten so used to someone >having set wait on that I was assuming we could talk it out. I was >considering doing it your way when the results suddenly came in! I don't think it matters at this point. But I do think you ought to start moving the army to Venice. Although, hm, maybe it just doesn't matter now. >I guess the other would have worked better in the north, that would >have put your army in Swe and the fleet retreating to Fin. Now >it does look grim. Sorry I was so convincing! Yeah, actually, if I had also ordered Hol-Nth, I would now own both Nwy *and* Swe. (By the way, a fleet in Norway cannot retreat to Fin, of course.) But after a little thought, I suspect it doesn't really matter. I believe Cal could have taken back Norway and Sweden in a year or two, and though we might have gotten you Kiel, I think he wouldn't have had any real trouble locking everything up. In other words, we've just reached the lock-up point a little earlier than we might have. I've mentioned to Cal the possibility of eliminating Manus now. Let's just say that he is not enthusiastic about it. But I think he just hasn't thought about it enough. I will try to persuade him that the only possibilities left are (i) he helps eliminate Manus, or does it himself, and (ii) we are left in a 4-way draw. I can't see how I'd have much trouble convincing Cal of that! It's pretty obviously true. Oh, and where do you think I should build? I figure, F StP(sc) and waive the other build. Although I might offer to build A Mos too if I have to negotiate with Cal. With our 'unit swapping' capacity, it shouldn't make too much difference if I do use up the build. And I'll probably lose Sweden anyway this year. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Yes, I need a plan. Right now, the only plan I have is this: Keep working with Cal while the opposition urges Cal non-stop to eliminate me. If that ever changes, my plan is subject to change as well. :-) Manus
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
> > > >I haven't had a chance to check out the results fully. I still think > >a two way would be rather anticlimatic. I'll try to look at it over > >the weekend and think of some strategies. Do the same and see if you > >can come up with some sort of plan that gives us a reasonable chance > >of success. > > Anticlimactic yes, but certainly less so than a cheesy three/four way, no? > (Unless, > of course YOU want to throw me the game too?) > A slip of the fingers there. I meant to say a four way, not a two way. I'm for trying something out. > I'll try to come up with a plan that has at least some chance of success, > but > we have probably reached the point where it will take a season or two of > subtle maneuvering to put it into effect. > > FYI, Jamie has already approached me with the idea of pulling off a > "re-alignment" in the game. He wants me to put Manus out first as the > price of this "re-alignment". > Gee, ya mean that guy in white over there who stuck the knife in me earlier? He'd consider doing it again? You really expect me to believe that? (<: Actually, in regards to your first note, it's less that we've been sitting it out than that it appeared there was actually a chance to make something happen. When you let that fleet into Holland it opened up a number of possibilities. You guessed well this turn and shut most of them down. It was possible that I'd be in Burgundy and Jamie'd own Swe and Nwy this turn which would have opened things up a bit. Now things are locked down quite a bit more. Since Jamie is pushing for you to take out Manus, there is the possibility for us to cooperate there without trigerring any reaction from him. For example, we could easily arrange for me to take Tunis, either with a "lucky" guess in the spring or overt action in the fall. After that I've just got to figure out where the 17 centers I can hold are and then see how we can get there. -Dave
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> >I guess the other would have worked better in the north, that would > >have put your army in Swe and the fleet retreating to Fin. Now > >it does look grim. Sorry I was so convincing! > > Yeah, actually, if I had also ordered Hol-Nth, I would now own both Nwy > *and* Swe. > (By the way, a fleet in Norway cannot retreat to Fin, of course.) > Sorry, I'm very tired right now (<:. > But after a little thought, I suspect it doesn't really matter. I believe > Cal could have taken back Norway and Sweden in a year or two, and though we > might have gotten you Kiel, I think he wouldn't have had any real trouble > locking everything up. > > In other words, we've just reached the lock-up point a little earlier than > we might have. > > I've mentioned to Cal the possibility of eliminating Manus now. Let's just > say that he is not enthusiastic about it. But I think he just hasn't > thought about it enough. I will try to persuade him that the only > possibilities left are (i) he helps eliminate Manus, or does it himself, > and (ii) we are left in a 4-way draw. I can't see how I'd have much trouble > convincing Cal of that! It's pretty obviously true. > > Oh, and where do you think I should build? I figure, F StP(sc) and waive > the other build. > Although I might offer to build A Mos too if I have to negotiate with Cal. > With our 'unit swapping' capacity, it shouldn't make too much difference if > I do use up the build. And I'll probably lose Sweden anyway this year. > You have an army in Mos already. You must be tired too (<:. Yeah, the four way is pretty obvious. The question is can we get rid of Manus in a way that gives us a shot at breaking through Cal or are we just going to a three way (which is of course better than a four way). I'll try to look at it over the weekend. -Kaiser D
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
I see! Well, that's an interesting plan. So as you see it, your best bet is to just stay in roughly this position, and maybe Cal won't eliminate you. Because he likes four-way draws? Ok! I'll be interested to see how well this plan works. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>You have an army in Mos already. You must be tired too (<:. Oh yeah. I *am*, as a matter of fact. Well, A Sev then. Anyway, it doesn't seem like a very likely bargaining chip. I've submitted the order: B STP(SC), WAIVE. >Yeah, the four way is pretty obvious. The question is can we get rid >of Manus in a way that gives us a shot at breaking through Cal or are >we just going to a three way (which is of course better than a four way). Well, the question is whether we can convince *Cal* to go for any "eliminate Manus" plan that gives us a shot at breaking through. Off hand, probably not. He seems even more cautious than I expected. I've smelled 3-way for quite a while now. (For longer than you know! Well, you probably suspected -- several gameyears ago, I tried to convince Manus to eliminate *you* with me, and even then I figured the result would be a 3-way! But we can go into that some other time.) >I'll try to look at it over the weekend. Ok. Anyway, I think my build on the south coast of Stp is correct, and we'll have lots of time before the S1912 orders are due. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I guess that's ONE way to put it. However, a different way is this: don't antagonize the only guy who is not openly campaigning for my elimination. Instead, bend over backwards to keep one friend in the game. My message to you was an apparent failed attempt (I think I struck the wrong tone -- seems to be my m.o. in this game) to maybe begin to explore possibilities for re-establishing a different friendship, though all evidence I have says you want me gone and Dave likes Italian food. :-( Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
How much chance is there that I could beg and plead and you could see your way clear to letting me have one of my home centers back? Maybe we could work together after that and the world will be such a better place for us both. Jamie is pressing Cal hard to eliminate me, and he's probably pressing you hard the same direction, and he's sending feelers out that make me think he's wanting puny little me to work with him and consider you the guy squeezed out of the middle and then of course, I'll be the only guy in the middle and Cal and Dave will race through me to get the solo. You and me are in the middle now, and if we don't patch up our differences, eventually I will die and then you will watch a solo as you get squeezed, or else we will both live long enough at each other's throats to be squeezed and we'll both get to see the solo. Asking for one of my centers back is the minimum I can accept to get back on your side, which is where I think we both belong. But it's of course up to you. :-( Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > > >>Somehow, eliminating my only ally doesn't seem to have a whole lot of logic >>in it for me. > >Why not? You get the lion's share of the spoils, and it loosens the >position. Sure, you would then have a chance of losing, but you'd also have >a chance of turning one of us. The big loss would be Manus's fleets which I couldn't replace easily, even with the "lion's share" (2 centres? Small lion...) of the spoils. Also this sudden southern naval weakness would tempt Dave far more than I'd be comfortable with... >What happened to your "this is going to be >the game that Calhamer always dreamed of" attitude? ;-) Calhamer dreams of perpetual seven-way draws... Amyway, I'm not ruling out anything you've said, I'm just explaining to you what I consider to be the risks inherent. >> I can see where you'd like my forces to be diverted from the >>north, but it gets a bit hazy after that. > >Not at all. I don't see why you'd have to divert forces from the north. (If >you tried, Manus would catch on pretty quick, so I figure you should just >take Mar and Spa with the units that are down there already. If you move >Par-Bur, which is entirely natural, I'll support you into Marseilles, and >you can take Spain with the F Wes.) If it came to that, I'm sure you could >spare one of those six northern fleets. Surely five would be enough to >contain my mighty navy! And I do believe you are going to get Sweden back. >And then when you stab Manus, you'll get a couple more builds. I hardly >think you are going to be short of northern fleets. Like I said, it's the lack of southern fleets that would be the problem. >> I can stonewall my way into a draw, but >>for the moment, it seems that any other move detracts from my position. > >Any other move than what? Playing for a draw (at least for now). >>No I won't raise the old saw about you attacking Dave first, but that's about >>what it would take. > >I'm glad you didn't suggest that I should attack Austria first. You and I >each have eleven centers. Manus has three, Dave has nine. The idea that to >break up a stale position *I* should attack my nine-center neighbor instead >of *you* eliminating your three-center neighbor would have been pretty >absurd. Really? Which would have a bigger effect on the game dynamics? Mind you, I'm still not expecting you to do it, but calling it absurd is quite an overstatement. The current "score" is 20-14 for the Dark Side. I have a lot less room to take the sort of chance you're suggesting. >Well, you think about it for a while. I'll get back to you Monday. FYI, Manus is going to be away for a week so we'll have LOTS of time to think about it. (What a concept for this game, eh? Time to think... ) Later, Cal
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':> >> Anticlimactic yes, but certainly less so than a cheesy three/four way, no? >> (Unless, >> of course YOU want to throw me the game too?) >> >A slip of the fingers there. I meant to say a four way, not a two way. >I'm for trying something out. Ah, well then we have something to talk about! d;-}) >> FYI, Jamie has already approached me with the idea of pulling off a >> "re-alignment" in the game. He wants me to put Manus out first as the >> price of this "re-alignment". >> >Gee, ya mean that guy in white over there who stuck the knife in me >earlier? He'd consider doing it again? You really expect me to believe >that? (<: Go figure, eh? d:-}) ({-:b q:-}) ({-:p >Actually, in regards to your first note, it's less that we've been sitting >it out than that it appeared there was actually a chance to make something >happen. When you let that fleet into Holland it opened up a number of >possibilities. You guessed well this turn and shut most of them down. It >was possible that I'd be in Burgundy and Jamie'd own Swe and Nwy this turn >which would have opened things up a bit. Now things are locked down quite >a bit more. I'm a lot more comfortable with my position up north than I have been the last few turns (which is when I SHOULD have gotten this position...). I feel that Jamie has no realistic chance to stop me from getting Sweden back, eliminating all his fleets and eventually taking St Pete's. Unfortunately, that's where things bog down unless I get help from you. We should be able to work things out so that we each take centres from him and achieve a balance comfortable for both of us. >Since Jamie is pushing for you to take out Manus, there is the possibility >for us to cooperate there without trigerring any reaction from him. For >example, we could easily arrange for me to take Tunis, either with a >"lucky" guess in the spring or overt action in the fall. As I explained to Jamie, I'm not comfortable with taking Manus out at this point. The current "score" is 20-14 for A/R and I'm not going to take out my only ally (and more important, my main source of southern naval power) at this point. Once I have Swe & Stp, I will have 13 defendable centres and not much hope of more. I'm hoping that, by this point, you will have taken a few of Jamie's remaining centres and we can settle into the draw. Manus can probably be taken out then to ensure our division of centres. >After that I've just got to figure out where the 17 centers I can hold are >and then see how we can get there. Fair enough. Look at the board situation, do some counting and we'll see what we can do. My part probably won't change no matter what you do - I will continue to push as hard in the north as I can. I'll take Berlin if I can, but, as a gesture of good faith, will not try for Munich (unless you tell me to stick my plans in my back pocket, of course... ). FYI, Manus is away for a week so we'll have some time to think. Later, Cal
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hope you enjoy(enjoyed) your trip (depending on when you get this...). How about these moves for this turn? F Mar-Pie F Lyo-Tyn, s by English F Wes F Tun-Ion At least that gets us all the territory we KNOW we can take (we can get Tun back in the Fall if they grab it and maybe poof a fleet if we're lucky). Jamie is now up to DEMANDING I take you out of the game... ;) Cal
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Uh oh, let's not have another misunderstanding! I'm just saying, I think that if you just sit and wait, you're awaiting your execution, that's all. You probably have a year to think it over, I doubt that King Kal is planning to kill you right away. He may not even be *planning* to kill you at all. Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>The big loss would be Manus's fleets which I couldn't replace easily, even >with >the "lion's share" (2 centres? Small lion...) of the spoils. True. Ok, let's think about how to take care of that problem, then. >The current "score" is 20-14 for the Dark Side. I have a lot less >room to take >the sort of chance you're suggesting. "Sides" are illusions, as you know. Only your own supply center count is real. Ok, so here's what I think. I think that you are going to take Sweden. If you decide it's worth the effort, you will also take Stp. At that point, you will have thirteen, and Dave and I will each have nine. I believe that we will be able to figure out some way for you to take *all three* of the Italian centers. For instance: you could sail one more fleet into position to take Spain, maybe just go to MAO. Then, I will issue the order Pie S ENGLISH A XYZ-Mar, and Dave can order F Ion S ENGLISH F Wes-Tun, and we can just keep issuing those orders, you don't have to do anything in return. When you are confident that we'll do those moves ad infinitum, you can take Spa, Mar, and Tun, and presumably move yet another fleet into MAO. I haven't worked out the details, but it certainly seems to me that you could set up a perfectly good stalemate line for yourself at that point. So that would be a 3-way draw. If you're happy with a 3-way, or if you're just not willing to risk anything else no matter how unhappy you are with a 3-way, then I think that's going to be the result. If we get that far, I am fairly certain that Dave won't stab me, and I don't expect that I would stab him, since you would then have 16 centers and each of us (Dave and me) would have an extremely easy time throwing you two more. On Monday, let's have a big council, including Dave, and see what we all think. Tsar J
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Hope you enjoy(enjoyed) your trip (depending on when you get this...). > Got it tonight (Saturday) and will act on it now as well. > How about these moves for this turn? > > F Mar-Pie > F Lyo-Tyn, s by English F Wes > F Tun-Ion > I am entering them with this message, and thanks in advance for the support. > Jamie is now up to DEMANDING I take you out of the game... ;) > He and I had a little exchange. He told me (paraphrasing) "you need a plan, not a puppeteer" and I told him that if he and Dave would stop begging you (Cal) to eliminate me, I might be able to think of a different plan than putting my eggs in the one basket that will actually hold them instead of dump them out. I thought he would come back with some tepid approaches along the, "well, if you took out Dave a bit this way and hit Cal a bit that way" lines. That was too much to hope for, though -- he went stonily silent and I imagine that was when he began making his demands of you. I believe I have royally pissed him off. Just be being stabbed by him! Silly me. I shouldn't be so interested in survival, perhaps? :-) Manus
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Uh oh, let's not have another misunderstanding! > I wholeheartedly agree. Usually, I am pretty dang good at avoiding misunderstandings -- not in this game, though! :-) > I'm just saying, I think that if you just sit and wait, you're awaiting > your execution, that's all. > Could be. But unless you see something I don't, if I stop sitting and waiting, like, let's say I stand up or something, it seems I would TRIGGER my execution. > You probably have a year to think it over, I doubt that King Kal is > planning to kill you right away. He may not even be *planning* to kill you > at all. > Since you and Dave have that plan, and are urging it on Cal, my only (sad, self-pitying face) choice is to hope that Cal resists your urging. The only card I have to play to mitigate against that possibility is to be as nice to him as humanly possible. If I hit him, I'm basically a spectator >from then on. Manus
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': >I am entering them with this message, and thanks in advance for the support. Great! You're welcome and thanks. >> Jamie is now up to DEMANDING I take you out of the game... ;) >> >He and I had a little exchange. He told me (paraphrasing) "you need a plan, >not a puppeteer" and I told him that if he and Dave would stop begging you >(Cal) to eliminate me, I might be able to think of a different plan than >putting my eggs in the one basket that will actually hold them instead of >dump them out. I thought he would come back with some tepid approaches >along the, "well, if you took out Dave a bit this way and hit Cal a bit >that way" lines. That was too much to hope for, though -- he went stonily >silent and I imagine that was when he began making his demands of you. Well, he's probably trying (good luck) to come up with something plausible... >I believe I have royally pissed him off. Just be being stabbed by him! >Silly me. I shouldn't be so interested in survival, perhaps? :-) Again, what a concept!Cal