| Press for Spring of 1912 in ruffians |
Movement
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
Sorry if disbanding Spain upset you, but this is the fatest way to move
foward into the Med. My fleet in spain was on the north coast and couldn't
continue into the Med . Now I can move Por-Spa(sc) and MAO-Wes.
As for the northern board, you said I could have StP and I interpreted it
as OK that I gave it to Russia. He promised me to use all builds against
Austria so I hope that is OK too.
Now, now. What to do now? Let�s move on! I think Chris has figured he
cannot hold Holland wich means he will move A Hol-Kie supported by A
Berlin. That means we can do this:
Germany:
F Nth-Hel
A Lon-Bel
F Bel-Hol
F Den does NOT try to bounce Chris in Kiel.
England:
F Eng C A Lon-Bel
and the moving into Med as suggested above. What do you say?
A position in Hel, Hol, Den combined with A Ruh (A Bur-Ruh) means you
re-take Holland and can throw him out of Kiel. Furthermore I may possibly
get a chance at Tunis depending on how Chris moves.
I hope we can continue to agree. Please let me hear your thoughts!
By the way, Chris has been sending a mail to me and Cal asking us whether
we want to eliminate you and Turkey and have a three-way DIAS. Cal answered
that he�d like to see you eliminated but not Turkey, as he sees Turkey as
his "insurance". I hope you understand that the reason for saying this to
you is because I intend to stick on your side. If Russia moves for you I
will definately capture StP from him this year (by the way; I might be
doing so anyway in the fall if I see springmoves in accordance with what I
wrote above).
all the best
/Christian
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I suggest a bounce in WMS. I really don't wanna get in there but I guess
you don't trust me. Besides, being in MAO this fall can turn out very
interesting for me. I will definately move in directions suggested by your
common letter to me and Cal.
all the best
/Christian
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
What on earth makes you think I dont trust you?
heheheheheh. whoo, had to laugh for a moment there. Because, for a moment,
I was serious!
Really, I can see that you have a LOT of cleanup to do in the North. I
could use some help with the German home SC's, like F North SEa not being
able to support action against Holland, Dnmark not being able to move to the
Baltic, that sort of thing.
I was planning on sending that fleet to the Ionain -- Lets not bounce in the
Westmed, shall we? Please? I think we both have bigger fish to fry!
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to England and Russia in
'ruffians':
Gents,
It seems to me that the death of Germany is going to be directly related to
how hard Cal presses me, or helps Turkey. For now, I am content to put the
Genie in the Bottle, and simply be the stopper until you decide we don't
need no more Genies, Cal.
But unless I can send the bulk of my force that way, including some naval
power to harass Marsailles, it's going to take forever.
It would appear that our common cause is Germany, then. Cal, could we agree
to DMZ Galicia and Ukraine? Galicia for you, Ukraine for me? If niether of
us is staging anything there, we can both breath a little easier. I will
Vacate Silesia as soon as possible, but that might be a year from now, I am
not sure.
I would also like to co-operate on the annhialation of the German unit in
Livonia. Perhaps Silesia and Warsaw could bounce in Prussia while StPete is
supported in by Moscow?
In the north, I will try to take and hold Kiel, and then support you into
Denmark, Christian.
Does this sound like a plan?
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria and England in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to England and Russia
in
> 'ruffians':
>
> It seems to me that the death of Germany is going to be directly related
to
> how hard Cal presses me, or helps Turkey. For now, I am content to put
the
> Genie in the Bottle, and simply be the stopper until you decide we don't
> need no more Genies, Cal.
That will take another couple of centres and my expansion opportunities are
rather limited right now. I'm definitely going to have to settle for
consolidation for the moment. More below.
> It would appear that our common cause is Germany, then. Cal, could we
agree
> to DMZ Galicia and Ukraine? Galicia for you, Ukraine for me? If niether
of
> us is staging anything there, we can both breath a little easier. I will
> Vacate Silesia as soon as possible, but that might be a year from now, I
am
> not sure.
As this will definitely help me consolidate my position, I'm for it.
> I would also like to co-operate on the annhialation of the German unit in
> Livonia. Perhaps Silesia and Warsaw could bounce in Prussia while StPete
is
> supported in by Moscow?
Okay, what I would like to do is get that unit off my soil as well. Combine
that with above DMZ (Christian, I'd like to DMZ the St Pete's area sometime
soon if it sounds feasible to you) and I get a little breathing space.
Obviously, I'm trying to keep my options open. I won't lie about that.
Heck, it's been quite a while since I've even HAD options! I also won't lie
about the fact that I may have to attack you (Austria) again if circumstance
dictate. But for now (read "now" as at least this coming year), I'm willing
to help in Germany's downfall and I'll re-evaluate the board situation at
that time.
Does that sound fair to you? It's probably the best I can do with my
position.
> In the north, I will try to take and hold Kiel, and then support you into
> Denmark, Christian.
>
> Does this sound like a plan?
Works for me.
Comments?
Cal
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
mikal,
Would you be willing to discuss terms where I cease attacking you? Or shall
we just keep hammering away?
Best,
Chris
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, great to hear from u. Wow, I am in a pickle now. My question to u
is, what advantage is there to Austria to lay off Turkey, me being on the
ropes and all during my last dying (gasp, gasp) days. Looks like u would
just want to finish the dirty deed done dirt cheap.
Thoughts?
MiKaL
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
mikal,
Would you be willing to discuss terms where I cease attacking you? Or shall
we just keep hammering away?
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
I understand perfectly that you are in a tight spot -- I mostly put you
there! I would like to end this game on a, oh, I-dunno, 14/11/9 split, with
you in Russia/Turkey/Rum bul, Me in Aus/Italy/Germany/Gre/Ser/Tun/Hol/Par,
and Christian in the rest, though I'd want to be DARN sure I had the med
sealed up if Christian was at 11! So that is the goal I am working towards
at this point. I have most of what I need.
If we spend this year consolidating our positions, then next year we can
see if our end-game visions match up. I am curious, does that sound like a
workable end-game scenario to you?
Best,
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal, fyi
Meef
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RE: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, great to hear from u. Wow, I am in a pickle now. My question to u
is, what advantage is there to Austria to lay off Turkey, me being on the
ropes and all during my last dying (gasp, gasp) days. Looks like u would
just want to finish the dirty deed done dirt cheap.
Thoughts?
MiKaL
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
mikal,
Would you be willing to discuss terms where I cease attacking you? Or shall
we just keep hammering away?
Best,
Chris
End of message.
Movement orders for Spring of 1912. (ruffians.053)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea, No Order Processed.
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea, No Order Processed.
Turkey: Fleet Constantinople, No Order Processed.
Orders not received for all units. If complete orders are not
received by Tue Jan 18 2000 23:30:00 PST, you will be considered late.
You will be considered abandoned if nothing is received by
Tue Jan 25 2000 23:30:00 PST.
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> I understand perfectly that you are in a tight spot -- I mostly put you
> there! I would like to end this game on a, oh, I-dunno, 14/11/9 split,
with
> you in Russia/Turkey/Rum bul, Me in Aus/Italy/Germany/Gre/Ser/Tun/Hol/Par,
> and Christian in the rest, though I'd want to be DARN sure I had the med
> sealed up if Christian was at 11! So that is the goal I am working
towards
> at this point. I have most of what I need.
>
> If we spend this year consolidating our positions, then next year we can
> see if our end-game visions match up. I am curious, does that sound like
a
> workable end-game scenario to you?
Almost. I see only one real sticking point from my end, but it's
potentially a big'n.
Simply put, I need a couple more centres so I'm not quite so at the mercy of
anyone with a unit in the area. Until then, I can't aford to trust anyone
other than Turkey (who needs me as much as I need him).
If we can figure out a way that I can get another couple of centres, I'll go
for your draw proposal. Any ideas? And no, I'm not prepared to stab the
Turk until it's safe for me to do so. I'm defining 'safe' here as you not
being able to turn around and take them from me right away.
I certainly agree that you have to have the entrance to the Med plugged
because England stands to become a big threat otherwise.
Meanwhile, let's get that German unit popped and we'll take it from there,
okay?
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal, fyi
> Meef
That's pretty much what he's saying to me too. I think he realizes that he
stabbed Germany too soon. You and I still have the power to keep enough of
his units tied up that he will have a rough go of it in the north. And if
England decides to push through the Med, he's in serious trouble.
Fortunately for all of us, Germany still has fleets that England has to be
worried about
Anyway, closer to home, Austria is talking about DMZing Gal/Ukr. I'm going
to try to make him think I like the idea and, if I get REALLY, REALLY lucky,
I may take a shot at Bud in the Fall. Let me know if you hear anything that
might affect that, k?
Later,
Cal
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Well, Chris. T o be honest, I do trust you as for now. Let's say we don't
bounce in WES.
But...(there's always a but) however if you go there, I will have to
continue to assist Germany full-hearted.
I hope you and Cal can work something out, this game is beginning to feel
quite uninteresting now.
/Christian
Message from England to Austria and Russia in 'ruffians':
>Does this sound like a plan?
What can I say? It sounds great. Maybe to great to be trusted? :)
/Christian
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
Yes, you ask the really hard questions, dont you? I'd like to be cryptic,
and say, "I have my reasons", but I actually do have fairly good reasons --
the same one's I've been giving you all along.
I am now looking for a good three-way draw. The Best 3 way on the table is
E/A/T. EAR isn't bad, but Russia always has to worrry that I have
sufficient force to take him out. This isn't a concern with Turkey -- at 6
centers, you are just about invulnerable, if those units are in the right
place.
Russia is going to stand by you -- I don't doubt it for a minute. The
question is whether I can dig you out by my lonesome or not, and while I
think I maybe could, now that I have some fleets in the area, I'd rather be
back in the atlantic. Can you imagine how frustrating it was, as Austria,
to have a fleet in the MAO, and have to retreat because it looked like
Turkey was going to shoot up to 5? grrrr.
Ok. Are you willing to discuss TERMS. I don't want any of the confusion
that occoured when Italy and I hit this crossroads. I want you in the game,
I want you to develop as a nation, but as the guy with the big stick, I have
some things I want to have happen.
I don't like to give ultimatums, its bad diplomacy. If we can agree on the
situation, I can then put forth what I would like to see happen for us to
work together. Everything is negotiable, of course, but some bits are less
negotiable than others. ;)
It will involve trusting me some. Not alot, I know how that bank account
is -- tapped. But if its that or War, I would rather negotiate.
Best,
chris
Message from Austria to Russia and England in
'ruffians':
>Does this sound like a plan?
What can I say? It sounds great. Maybe to great to be trusted? :)
/Christian>
Always the trusting one, arent' you? ;)
chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
I was thinking about that very thing -- well, if Cal holds the Turkish
centers, what's to keep me from taking them and going for the solo?
Toughie -- I control the southern seas, which makes it that much harder.
I imagine a scenario where my fleets are tied up in Naf/Westmed/Gulf of Lyon
positions being the answer. I only have the four, and if they are all being
used at the other end of the Med, you should be fairly secure. However, I
can't send those units away until turkey is down. Is this a catch 22?
I hope not. I guess the first center we could easily get you would be
Bulgaria -- after that, Berlin?
This is a tough thing for me -- I want to build you up, but not soas you
become a threat to me. Have you had this sort of situation arise before?
Its a new one for me.
Best,
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal, any thoughts on what OUR story should be with Austria? If we
coordinate our stories, we may fair better.
Meef
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 2:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
Yes, you ask the really hard questions, dont you? I'd like to be cryptic,
and say, "I have my reasons", but I actually do have fairly good reasons --
the same one's I've been giving you all along.
I am now looking for a good three-way draw. The Best 3 way on the table is
E/A/T. EAR isn't bad, but Russia always has to worrry that I have
sufficient force to take him out. This isn't a concern with Turkey -- at 6
centers, you are just about invulnerable, if those units are in the right
place.
Russia is going to stand by you -- I don't doubt it for a minute. The
question is whether I can dig you out by my lonesome or not, and while I
think I maybe could, now that I have some fleets in the area, I'd rather be
back in the atlantic. Can you imagine how frustrating it was, as Austria,
to have a fleet in the MAO, and have to retreat because it looked like
Turkey was going to shoot up to 5? grrrr.
Ok. Are you willing to discuss TERMS. I don't want any of the confusion
that occoured when Italy and I hit this crossroads. I want you in the game,
I want you to develop as a nation, but as the guy with the big stick, I have
some things I want to have happen.
I don't like to give ultimatums, its bad diplomacy. If we can agree on the
situation, I can then put forth what I would like to see happen for us to
work together. Everything is negotiable, of course, but some bits are less
negotiable than others. ;)
It will involve trusting me some. Not alot, I know how that bank account
is -- tapped. But if its that or War, I would rather negotiate.
Best,
chris
Message from Russia to Austria and England in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Austria and
> Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>
> >Does this sound like a plan?
>
> What can I say? It sounds great. Maybe to great to be trusted? :)
Well, this IS Chris we're talking about... <G>
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Cal, any thoughts on what OUR story should be with Austria? If we
> coordinate our stories, we may fair better.
There's probably not much we can tell him he'll believe. For example, the
only thing you could say to him that would be remotely believable would be
that you want to attack me. The only other alternative you have is to say
that you want to help defend the Med against England and that's just not
gonna fly as a story. As for atacking me, he's not likely to trust that
idea either. He's getting very paranoid (and for good reason!).
Anyway, since there's not much point in lying, let's just stick to the story
that all we want is to defend our borders, grow a little and see what
happens. That's all I've told him anyway.. I'm certainly open to
suggestion.
Cal
signof
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, if I could just get outta this hole I am in, then I may be able to
feel a little more comfortable. What are the chances of u backing out of
Bul and Gre, letting me have them? I would feel a lot better about our
relationship then.
Thoughts?
Mikal,
Yes, you ask the really hard questions, dont you? I'd like to be cryptic,
and say, "I have my reasons", but I actually do have fairly good reasons --
the same one's I've been giving you all along.
I am now looking for a good three-way draw. The Best 3 way on the table is
E/A/T. EAR isn't bad, but Russia always has to worrry that I have
sufficient force to take him out. This isn't a concern with Turkey -- at 6
centers, you are just about invulnerable, if those units are in the right
place.
Russia is going to stand by you -- I don't doubt it for a minute. The
question is whether I can dig you out by my lonesome or not, and while I
think I maybe could, now that I have some fleets in the area, I'd rather be
back in the atlantic. Can you imagine how frustrating it was, as Austria,
to have a fleet in the MAO, and have to retreat because it looked like
Turkey was going to shoot up to 5? grrrr.
Ok. Are you willing to discuss TERMS. I don't want any of the confusion
that occoured when Italy and I hit this crossroads. I want you in the game,
I want you to develop as a nation, but as the guy with the big stick, I have
some things I want to have happen.
I don't like to give ultimatums, its bad diplomacy. If we can agree on the
situation, I can then put forth what I would like to see happen for us to
work together. Everything is negotiable, of course, but some bits are less
negotiable than others. ;)
It will involve trusting me some. Not alot, I know how that bank account
is -- tapped. But if its that or War, I would rather negotiate.
Best,
chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
<<stuff representing Chris' dilemma snipped>>
> This is a tough thing for me -- I want to build you up, but not so as you
> become a threat to me. Have you had this sort of situation arise before?
> Its a new one for me.
Yeah, it's the same position I put Jamie Dreier in in the last demo game,
although the centres he realized I had to get weren't so inconveniently
placed. Didn't have Turkey as a wild card either.
Quite frankly, I think the only thing that can be done for now is wait and
see what breaks. You're gonna have to crumble at some point and,
unfortunately, it looks as if the Med may be where it happens. Too bad you
didn't let Germany back into Munich. It would have freed up that fleet in
Trieste or defense duties.
Later, heading to work now...
Cal
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris:
Did you get what you wanted out of your German stab? You
slowed/stopped
my invasion of England, but it has given Christian time to follow your
retreating
fleets towards the Med. Iberia is a distant dream for you now.
Russia, which was on the ropes only a gameyear ago, has now been
building
armies. Against whom will they be used? (Even if he employs them vs.
Germany,
he has to go through you to get there!)
I must ask: what did Turkey have in mind when he tried a supported
attack on
Bul and would have left Con wide open for your retreat?
What did England have in mind when he supported Russia to StP
instead of taking it himself (as we had agreed). People surely are
getting generous around here.
Should you wish a rapproachment, the deal may as well be proposed
by you. My terms would surely be too harsh to be considered seriously!
Paul
Message from France to Austria in 'ruffians':
I know you're wishing you had that extra fleet in the WES right now! :)
Message from Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
Hi Cal:
I never expected to keep that army in Lvn, but no removal is no
removal. Any
ideas as to where it should go/what it should do?
Chris wrote, saying that you were going to attack Germany because
you had
nothing else to do with all your armies. This makes no sense-- you'd
have to go
through the Austrian lines just to get to Germany....
Paul
Message from Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> I never expected to keep that army in Lvn, but no removal is no
> removal. Any
> ideas as to where it should go/what it should do?
I'm going to dislodge it this turn, so you can retreat it off the board.
> Chris wrote, saying that you were going to attack Germany because
> you had
> nothing else to do with all your armies. This makes no sense-- you'd
> have to go
> through the Austrian lines just to get to Germany....
This turn, I'll be doing little other than solidifying my position. After
that, it will depend on opportunity and, as you say, attacking you isn't
practical. Plan A is to keep pressure on Austria. Plan B is to find
something to do that could form a Plan B...
What's up with you and England?
Cal
Message from Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> > Message from [email protected] as Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
> >
> > I never expected to keep that army in Lvn, but no removal is no
> > removal. Any
> > ideas as to where it should go/what it should do?
>
> I'm going to dislodge it this turn, so you can retreat it off the board.
Okay; I'll either retreat otb or let it fall to Pru so that I can use it vs.
Austrian A Ber.
>
> What's up with you and England?
We're planning my re-taking of Hol, setting up my return to Kie/Ber and
getting my
units away from the Brit border. Christian will speed his fleets around the
Horn of
Gibraltar. Austria should lose at least one dot to me (Hol) and suffer
annihilation in
another (Kiel).
What was the Turkish plan last season-- trying a supported attack on Bul but
leaving Con wide open for Austria to retreat?
Paul
>
>
Message from Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> What was the Turkish plan last season-- trying a supported attack on Bul
but
> leaving Con wide open for Austria to retreat?
He didn't. Check the moves again, he moved F Smy-Con.
Note: If England makes it around Spain into the Med, make sure you hang
onto a couple of your northern fleets as we'll need them to stop an English
victory.
This games has been a major demonstration of the Checks and Balances
theory...
Cal
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul,
Did I get what I wanted? Hmmm. Yes and no? It all really depends on
whether Christian actually DOES follow my retreating fleets towards the med,
or if he sends them North to defend against you -- we shall see how he plays
that one.
Your points, though, are all good ones. I felt I HAD to take some steps to
blunt your momentum, though, or risk chasing you from behind. The cost of
that was any immediate hope of a solo that I had.
<<must ask: what did Turkey have in mind when he tried a supported
attack on
Bul and would have left Con wide open for your retreat?>>
I think he moved Smy -> Con, didn't he? That's what my map shows . . .
Yup, he did.
<< What did England have in mind when he supported Russia to StP
instead of taking it himself (as we had agreed). >>
Now THAT was either very clever, or Very Stupid. It gives me some worries,
right? That;s the only think I can think of, he thought I would need an
opposing force to balance me.
<<Should you wish a rapproachment, the deal may as well be proposed
by you. My terms would surely be too harsh to be considered seriously!>>
Hmm. I think I might be able to envision those terms. Unfortunately, I
cant think of a good way for us to disengage at this time. If you have
any Ideas on those lines, I am willing to listen -- I would think that
Tyrolia -> Munich would be a starting place we could agree on, at the very
least.
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to France in 'ruffians':
Haha, laughing boy -- If only you'd been willing to play ball in the first
place! ;)
Chris
Message from France to Austria in 'ruffians':
I was! What did I have to lose, since you could always take me out in Tunis?
I didn't even argue for survival as part of a draw but rather that I'd like
to survive if you could find 19 just to bother the German. Man, at that
point you were odds-on to be able to hold past the stalemate line--now
you've got a resurgent Russia and still have not solved your Turkish problem
and you can't afford to get that additional fleet out of Trieste for one or
several turns yet. I'm starting to think more and more that this will turn
into a 3way (A/R/E?)
Once again, we see our own traditional patterns that we've talked about
before: I stab too late, and you stab too soon. :) What I continually don't
understand is why you underestimate people's intentions. Even Freud said,
"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Sometimes a 1-SC power, esp of someone
you know personally, does get a kick out of helping to play kingmaker. What
I see is that you've substituted F WES (French) for F TRI (Austrian), and
ugh, that cant possibly be more useful.
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> Paul,
>
> Did I get what I wanted? Hmmm. Yes and no? It all really depends on
> whether Christian actually DOES follow my retreating fleets towards the med,
> or if he sends them North to defend against you -- we shall see how he plays
> that one.
Well, my F Nth will be lingering in place to ensure that England does move
properly.
If he wants to swap Edi for Bre, he is of course most welcome! His move to Mao,
though, is a hopeful sign for me.
>
>
> I would think that
> Tyrolia -> Munich would be a starting place we could agree on, at the very
> least.
Quite so. As long as you're not going to follow it up with A Ven-Tyr or
Vie-Tyr.
That could prove "tyresome".
Paul
>
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Any thoughts on move coordination for this season?
What about turkey:
f aeg - bulsc
f con s aeg - bulsc
f bla s aeg - bulsc
Russia:
a rum - ser
Meef
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Any thoughts on move coordination for this season?
>
> What about turkey:
> f aeg - bulsc
> f con s aeg - bulsc
> f bla s aeg - bulsc
>
> Russia:
> a rum - ser
I have a sneaking suspicion that Austria will concede you Bulgaria and
shuffle the fleet into Greece, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I'll make
the above move so you can get it back. Lookin at the board though, wouldn't
a move of F Aeg-Gre and F Con-Bul(sc), s by F Bla be better? Might even pop
the Bulgarian fleet.
Cal
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
I think
F Aeg-Gre
F Con-Bul(sc)
F Bla s Con-Bul(sc)
are better, so I will issue accordingly.
thanks Meef
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, no response from my latest message, what's up?
MiKaL
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
MiKaL,
Sorry for the delay -- I went out to New Jersey for 36 hours, long story.
Ok, you want me to back out of two centers I control, so you can feel more
comfortable. This is NOT what I had in mind when I spoke of Terms by which
I cease attacking you.
You are going to have to agree to attack Russia, and it'll be a pre-emptives
strike, too, before I will stop coming after you.
Think Bulgaria, Sev, Rumania, Moscow as your next centers and we can do
buisness.
Chris
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris,
If I preempt Russia it will be signing my death warrant, for as surely as I
do, the last voice I hear before I enter Sheol will be Austrian. I've seen
u put a bullet in the head of the French and Italian, I would be third. Is
there a little gray area we can work out before we go black and white?
Comments?
MiKaL,
Sorry for the delay -- I went out to New Jersey for 36 hours, long story.
Ok, you want me to back out of two centers I control, so you can feel more
comfortable. This is NOT what I had in mind when I spoke of Terms by which
I cease attacking you.
You are going to have to agree to attack Russia, and it'll be a pre-emptives
strike, too, before I will stop coming after you.
Think Bulgaria, Sev, Rumania, Moscow as your next centers and we can do
buisness.
Chris
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul,
Ok, we have a starting point. Do you have a proposal for Holland? I can
only think of one place on the board it could go that would benefit both of
us, and its so ridiculous that I can't even mention it.
And Livonia. What of that?
Chris
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
We need to talk about what is going on in the north this season. Are you
going to be re-taking the North Sea? Do you need me to hit Belgium to cut
support?
Paul thinks you are going to come crashing into the Med -- I don't doubt
that is why you asked for the bounce in Westmed -- if you need me to do it
for dramatic purposes in the spring, that's fine, but if you apply your
resources, you can re-take the north sea and london this year, as well as
Brest -- depending on how Paul defends, we might not get Denmark, but its
bound to fall sooner or later.
Please drop me a line so we can plan this out.
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
Well, there is ONE little thing you should keep in mind when considering the
Italian and the French cases -- and that is in BOTH instances I asked them
for help, and they turned around and bit me. Then and ONLY then did I crush
them (and, for the record, Turkey owned a couple of Italian centers at one
point, it wasn't all me, and I certainly cant take the blame for France!)
In fact, France still sends me messages like :Wow, good trade, a friendly
fleet in the Westmed for a fleet in Trieste! grrrrr. ;)
In short, the answer is NO. I am looking to secure a 3-way draw here. If
you won't play ball, Russia will, eventually. I now have the fleets to keep
you bottled up, at four centers tops, and I can contend that pretty readily.
Of course, England could come into the Med and distract me, which would
change everything, or something else that I don't see coming could happen,
but as the board stands, I only have one reason to work with you -- to
eliminate Russia from the draw.
Look, I am not asking you to commit suicide. I am willing to support YOU
into these centers. Look at our personal history -- WE had a plan, by which
you would have gotten Rumania and Sev, and you trashed it for Bulgaria. I
played you straight, and you turned on me. I don't really know why I should
give you a chance to betray me again, now that I think about it! But that's
dip -- you and I know that we have to watch the other person, and make sure
that any betrayal isn't going to be too costly.
I need an ally more than I need centers. You clearly don't trust me to do
anything I would say, just under General Principal, it seems to me. Well,
if you won't trust me to do something in my own best interests, ie secure an
ally who could then work with me further, then I guess you wont trust me
when the chips are down, either.
Good luck,
Chris
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I would actually like to bounce in WES for dramatic reasons. If it�s ok
with you. Also, I will not attack NTH this season cause I am planning to
sneak into LON & Brest in the fall. I need it to look like I am attacking
you and playing with Paul to help him defend. See?
I guess the best thing you can do is to attack Kiel with support and move
to be able to either hold Kiel or take MUN in the fall.
Paul asked me to use my F ENG to convoy A Lon-Bel. Playing England and
Germany asks you to help him convoy away from your tiny island. Hard to not
do that. I will convoy him away, the worst that might happen is that he
takes EDI but that he could have done whatever I guessed. I just hope he
moves to open himself for a stab.
All the best
/Christian
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Ok, we have a starting point.
>
> I take it that you won't try to oppose/bounce A Tyr-Mun?
>
> > Do you have a proposal for Holland? I can
> > only think of one place on the board it could go that would benefit both of
> > us, and its so ridiculous that I can't even mention it.
>
> Hmm. Might you consider your A Hol being convoyed via Nth to Yrk or Edi?
> Wouldn't that be a mean thing to do to Christian?
>
> >
> >
> > And Livonia. What of that?
>
> What of it? It could be supported to Warsaw.... Cal's plan is to drive me out
> of
> Lvn with a supported move, and he wants me to retreat it otb. Now a supported
> move to War MIGHT catch him unawares....
>
> Paul
>
> >
> >
> >
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul,
Great minds . . .
No I won't oppose a move to Munich. I was thinking that a convoy to
Yorkshire or Edi would just RUIN Chirstian's day, but c'mon, and Austrian
Army in Edi? God, I hae to confess, I am the kind of player who would do
this just so I could say that I have done it, in a serious game as a
serious, valid move. Let me think on that, but I think it might be an
answer . . .
The problem, of course, being that if you double cross me (and hey, I think
we have to look at this thing from all sides at this point, right?) you
could annhialate that army. My safe move is to support it to Kiel, but that
is at best a holding measure, as it puts me right in your clutches. hmmm.
Would YOU do it, that is my question.
I would happily support Livonia to Warsaw, as it helps me deal with a number
of issues. He ends up retreating to Prussia, but that shouldn't help him
any.
I think we have the pieces of a deal here. At the heart of it is the
somewhat improbably convoy of Holland -> Edi. It ties us together, giving
you a hostage, essentially, because when england goes down, you can take
that center when and how you want to, but it does clear me out of your field
of opperations. The same can be said of Warsaw, I suppose.
What are your thoughts on the two-year ramifications of such a deal?
best,
Chris
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris:
As you say:
>
> The problem, of course, being that if you double cross me (and hey, I think
> we have to look at this thing from all sides at this point, right?) you
> could annhialate that army.
Yeah, and look at it from the other (my) point of view: I could be leaving
myself
open to A Hol-s-A Ber-Kie....
Yes, the plan has its obvious dangers to each of us. But nothing ventured,
nothing gained right? I'll do the convoy to Edi if you want it!
>
>
> I would happily support Livonia to Warsaw, as it helps me deal with a number
> of issues. He ends up retreating to Prussia, but that shouldn't help him
> any.
Hey, I'm one of the FEW players left in this game who hasn't had a hold on War
at some time or another. It's my turn! The question is, can I hold onto it in
the Fall?
He'll be in Lvn, Mos and Ukr plus he'll be as mad as a hornet. Can you spare
two
supports for my A War in the Fall?
>
>
> I think we have the pieces of a deal here. At the heart of it is the
> somewhat improbably convoy of Holland -> Edi. It ties us together, giving
> you a hostage, essentially, because when england goes down, you can take
> that center when and how you want to, but it does clear me out of your field
> of opperations. The same can be said of Warsaw, I suppose.
>
> What are your thoughts on the two-year ramifications of such a deal?
My A War would be every bit as vulnerable to you (or Russia) as your A Edi would
be to me. Plus Lpl is just a retreat away from Edi, isn't it?
You could still be quite as near to Iberia as I will be. In fact, you
could
have Iberia while I'd concentrate on Scandinavia.
While there we still E's, R's, and T's around, we'd have to stick together;
they
won't be quite as forgiving/forebearing as they've been in times past.
I've "settled" for two-way draws before--twice that I can think of just out
of hand. They're somewhat harder to come by than are solo wins, because it
takes
that rare element of trust and (ahem) honesty.
Paul
>
>
> best,
>
> Chris
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris:
As you say:
>
> The problem, of course, being that if you double cross me (and hey, I think
> we have to look at this thing from all sides at this point, right?) you
> could annhialate that army.
Yeah, and look at it from the other (my) point of view: I could be leaving
myself
open to A Hol-s-A Ber-Kie....
Yes, the plan has its obvious dangers to each of us. But nothing ventured,
nothing gained right? I'll do the convoy to Edi if you want it!
>
>
> I would happily support Livonia to Warsaw, as it helps me deal with a number
> of issues. He ends up retreating to Prussia, but that shouldn't help him
> any.
Hey, I'm one of the FEW players left in this game who hasn't had a hold on War
at some time or another. It's my turn! The question is, can I hold onto it in
the Fall?
He'll be in Lvn, Mos and Ukr plus he'll be as mad as a hornet. Can you spare
two
supports for my A War in the Fall?
>
>
> I think we have the pieces of a deal here. At the heart of it is the
> somewhat improbably convoy of Holland -> Edi. It ties us together, giving
> you a hostage, essentially, because when england goes down, you can take
> that center when and how you want to, but it does clear me out of your field
> of opperations. The same can be said of Warsaw, I suppose.
>
> What are your thoughts on the two-year ramifications of such a deal?
My A War would be every bit as vulnerable to you (or Russia) as your A Edi would
be to me. Plus Lpl is just a retreat away from Edi, isn't it?
You could still be quite as near to Iberia as I will be. In fact, you
could
have Iberia while I'd concentrate on Scandinavia.
While there we still E's, R's, and T's around, we'd have to stick together;
they
won't be quite as forgiving/forebearing as they've been in times past.
I've "settled" for two-way draws before--twice that I can think of just out
of hand. They're somewhat harder to come by than are solo wins, because it
takes
that rare element of trust and (ahem) honesty.
Paul
>
>
> best,
>
> Chris
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul,
OK. You have yourself a deal. I may pay the price, but I think the risk is
worth the candle. ( I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds
appropriate . . .)
Yes, I can support Warsaw to hold in the fall -- and on another thought, if
you want, I could shift Edi -> Liverpool in the fall, and you could take
Edi.
Yes, I think this would leave everyone else hopping mad, no question. May I
ask that Marsailles not move to Piedmont -- or should we agree to bounce
there, to keep you from worrying about Tyre-some developments?
I haven't yet participated in a two way draw. I am, however, game if you
are. Clearly any hope for a solo for me is shot at this point.
Best,
Chris
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> Paul,
>
> OK. You have yourself a deal. I may pay the price, but I think the risk is
> worth the candle. ( I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds
> appropriate . . .)
Cool. They (E/R) will NEVER see this coming! The deal I made with Christian
was that his F Eng would convoy A Lon-Bel, and he would leave F Nth alone so
that it could support F Bel-Hol. Unless he happens to move F Nwy-Nwg (unlikely,
with my having that F Nth, F Den) he'll be wide open for the kill (well, I'd
better
move A Bur-Pic to cover Bre or Bel).
If I burn you in Hol, you waste me in War.
>
>
> Yes, I can support Warsaw to hold in the fall -- and on another thought, if
> you want, I could shift Edi -> Liverpool in the fall, and you could take
> Edi.
Imagine that. All the English home dots, gone in the flash of a switchblade.
>
>
> Yes, I think this would leave everyone else hopping mad, no question. May I
> ask that Marsailles not move to Piedmont -- or should we agree to bounce
> there, to keep you from worrying about Tyre-some developments?
Didn't we arrange a bounce once before? Well, this one can't hurt me....
>
>
> I haven't yet participated in a two way draw. I am, however, game if you
> are. Clearly any hope for a solo for me is shot at this point.
Be all that you can be.
Paul
>
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
Just for the record, it's not me with the SET WAIT this time... (and my
orders are in also)
Cal
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I haven�t heard from you lately, but please bounce me in WES.
all the best
/Christian
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Just for the record, it's not me with the SET WAIT this time... (and my
> orders are in also)
>
> Cal
My orders are in, too, without the Set Wait feature employed. I don't know
who
has such complicated moves/negociations this time that he has to wait 'til
the last
minute.... Sigh.
Paul
Broadcast message from England in
'ruffians':
And neither do I have the wait feature on.
/Christian
Broadcast message from Austria in 'ruffians':
Ahem -- sorry! I was out of town this weekend, didn't get my orders in
before I left.
Sorry!
Chris
Broadcast message from Master in 'ruffians':
[email protected] writes:
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Austria in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Ahem -- sorry! I was out of town this weekend, didn't get my orders in
> before I left.
>
> Sorry!
>
> Chris
Really, in the big picture, this is not a crime. I also don't think
there are any WAIT flags this time. Let's see...
Rick
Retreats
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul,
Well, I deserve whatever I get now. I never believed you would actually do
it. My short sightedness. My doom.
Chris
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Ok -- Nicely done. Do you see our situation as changed at this point? A
supported attack -- Black Sea -> Rum will almost certainly go. That would
put you at five. I have tried to move out of your way, so that you wouldn't
feel so "surrounded". Can we work together at this point?
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
We had a successful season last. Austria has thinned his line against us
dramatically and can be exploited.
This is what I think Austria will do to try and defend against t/r:
a gre - ser (self bounce)
a bud - ser (self bounce)
f ion - aeg (cut support against gre)
I recommend the following moves:
f aeg - gre
f bul(sc) s aeg - gre
f bla s bul(sc)
Thoughts?
Meef
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Ummm, did we agree to DMZ Galicia and Ukraine? I expected you to help
Turkey in the south, but I had hoped that you wouldn't do it quite so well!
;)
What now?
Chris
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
The last reply I made to u seemed like it may have been offensive. I do not
mean to be offensive or brash.
However, my attitude has not changed in that I am still fearful of the big
Austria stick. U carry one whale of a punch. Thoughts on allowing me
Greece this year?!?!?!, I think it go a long way toward a "trust with
security" effort.
Thoughts?
Ok -- Nicely done. Do you see our situation as changed at this point? A
supported attack -- Black Sea -> Rum will almost certainly go. That would
put you at five. I have tried to move out of your way, so that you wouldn't
feel so "surrounded". Can we work together at this point?
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal, to keep u informed. Please know I am not gonna backstab u. As we keep
unified and pouring on the pressure, we will both prosper in the game. I
think Germany and Austria have both goofed in that they stabbed foolishly.
My on-going conversations with him will keep a carrot in front of him.
Meef
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RE: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
The last reply I made to u seemed like it may have been offensive. I do not
mean to be offensive or brash.
However, my attitude has not changed in that I am still fearful of the big
Austria stick. U carry one whale of a punch. Thoughts on allowing me
Greece this year?!?!?!, I think it go a long way toward a "trust with
security" effort.
Thoughts?
Ok -- Nicely done. Do you see our situation as changed at this point? A
supported attack -- Black Sea -> Rum will almost certainly go. That would
put you at five. I have tried to move out of your way, so that you wouldn't
feel so "surrounded". Can we work together at this point?
Chris
End of message.
Retreat orders for Spring of 1912. (ruffians.054)
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
signedon gruffians sucker
press to a
Hey, buddy, we're out of KY, but don't worry, the next case is on me!
signedoff
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> We had a successful season last. Austria has thinned his line against us
> dramatically and can be exploited.
We're thinking along the same lines! d;-})
> This is what I think Austria will do to try and defend against t/r:
>
> a gre - ser (self bounce)
> a bud - ser (self bounce)
> f ion - aeg (cut support against gre)
Seems reasonable.
> I recommend the following moves:
>
> f aeg - gre
> f bul(sc) s aeg - gre
> f bla s bul(sc)
>
> Thoughts?
Yep. How about you get that fleet out of Black and into Con where it can be
pushed into the Med? It doesn't need to support Bul and with Austria's
"thinning" (I like that phrase!) of the lines, we can afford to pull back a
bit and start thinking strategically. I think we can look at you breaking
out and surrounding the Austrian flank. That should give us both
opportunity to grow.
I do want to point out that we have to be careful about weakening Austria
TOO much, as we may eventually need him against England. For now, let's go
after him strong but don't forget the big picture, okay?
Later,
Cal
signof
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
cal,
f bla - con
f bul(sc) s aeg - gre
f aeg - gre
sounds like a plan
Meef
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
My, we ARE harsh, aren't we?
;)
THis time he deserves it, though . . .
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> Ummm, did we agree to DMZ Galicia and Ukraine? I expected you to help
> Turkey in the south, but I had hoped that you wouldn't do it quite so
well!
> ;)
I'm like that bad case of foot fungus that just won't go away... d;-})
As for the DMZ, I thought it to mean that you wouldn't go for Ukr and I
wouldn't go for Gal, no?
> What now?
Good question. I think I'm gonna chase that German army until I eventually
pop the damned thing, just for the sheer cussedness of it all. Other than
that, I cover my butt until opportunity presents itself to gain some
centres. Beyond that, I can't say because i haven't decided yet.
BTW, What kind of chemical dependency do you have Paul on? Just curious...
d;-})
Cal
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
Well, I wish we hadn't bounced in the Westmed, 'cause I could be in the GOL
now and we could take Marsailles -- but who knew?
I bet you're glad I didn't accept that convoy to edi, as well! An austrian
army in Edi, I had a hard time resisting that!
Anyway, if you will go to Marsailles from Spain, we can annhialate that army
in Piedmont -- I'll cover Tuscany from Tyhrn, and support an attack in --
I'll also take Kiel, sorry for not being in Kiel now, but I thought I'd end
up there after getting dislodged from Belgium.
Thoughts?
Chris
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal, to keep u informed. Please know I am not gonna backstab u. As we
keep
> unified and pouring on the pressure, we will both prosper in the game. I
> think Germany and Austria have both goofed in that they stabbed foolishly.
> My on-going conversations with him will keep a carrot in front of him.
I agree that you should keep him hanging for as long as he'll chase the
carrot. Lord knows, nobody else is talking to him (well, except his cell
mate, Germany) so he will likely WANT to believe you.
As for our alliance, I am solidly behind it. This game has been one
senseless stab after another and I'm tired of it. I'm going to stick with
you until the game ends as I think that's the only way we're going to
prosper.
Thanks for the note,
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Actually, where I come from, DMZ's mean De-militarized Zones, and no armies
go there. I somehow doubt you misunderstood this. Still and all, I have
kinda passed up the opportunity to contest that, haven't I?
As for Paul, I have to say that the Idea was a good one -- I could have
supported him into Warsaw, bounced you in Ukraine, and had an army in Edi --
I would have enjoyed that, but I really didn't see it as a long-term winner.
I came this close to doing it though -- but I thought, classic prisoners
dilema -- if I go through, and he doesn't, I look like an idiot --- it'd be
cool if I did do it, but really, not quite cool enough to take the chance.
Germany is now a corpse, with just a little twitching left in it.
I think we really need to start thinking 3 way here, and that means getting
Turkey out of the picture. Right? Talk to me, here, let me know what you
think!
Chris
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Greece, hmm. Well, actually, I am thinking about it. Would it really be
good for our relationship, though? That's my question. I mean, you'd have
to be tempted to build a couple of fleets and come screaming out into the
Med, right?
Why don't we go slow -- IF you build an army, or IF you take Rumania this
fall, then I will cede Greece to you Next year. I just need to make sure
that R/T aren't coming after me tooth and nail before I give up a key
province like Greece -- you do see that, right?
Anyway, let me know if you want that supported attack on Rum -- a sneak
attack on Sev would probably work better. I am hoping that you and I can
get back on track working against Russia again.
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> My, we ARE harsh, aren't we?
Think how much harsher it would have been WITHOUT the KY... d;-})
Cal
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Your plan about disbanding A Pie seems allright. Paul is and will always be
your puppet so there is no need whatsoever to try to work with him.
Enjoy your solo! :(
/Christian
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul, Paul, Paul...
I am actually getting quite tired of trying to work with you. But, I will
make a last attempt. This coming fall can result in no supplycenter gain
for you on my loss. I can cover Edi and you cannot reach Lpl. Also I cannot
gain anything from you. Please let this make sense and start work with and
not Austria! I am assuming you want to convoy your army over to the
mainland. Ok, I will continue to pressure my way into the Med IF I can
trust you. There is really no need for me fighting Austria while you are
getting slain by him while attacking me. See my point?
Please tell me if your honest intentions in this game is to give the
victory away to Chris, cause if that is the case I could as well signoff
from the game. Your trust in him is starting to seem a little bit
redicolous. BUT, as I said, there is still time to make me change that
view. Show me some goodwill and some real intentions to work with me and
I'll start looking at you with respect again.
Sorry if my message seems harsch, but I was a bit upset when I saw the
adjudication. I will probably have calmed down tomorrow and say a lot nicer
things...:)
/Christian
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
What?!?
<<Enjoy your solo! :( >>
WHAT?!?
Seriously, here, do you really see 18 centers for me? I can't get back into
the MAO, and I can't crack R/T. I may get as far as 14 or 15, all of
Germany, and Paris, but to get to 18 I need some Turkish centers or some
Russian centers or some of Iberia, and I just cant see that happening.
Not that I wouldn't try, but if you take Brest this year, and I take Munich
and Kiel, then Germany is out -- you'll get London and Denmark, and Belgium,
I should think. That leaves me with
Home(3) + serbia/greece (5) +Italy/tunis (9) Germany (12) + Holland/Paris
(14). Where are my other 4 centers? Especially if you don't attack Cal in
the north, I can't get 18, I dont think.
Do you really think eliminating Paul will give me a solo? I just don't see
it. I am NOT trying to be clever or deceptive here. When I pulled out of
the MAO I gave up any chance (IMO) of a solo.
I really want to know what you think about this -- I am trying to engineer a
three way draw.
Chris
Message from Germany to England, Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> > 'ruffians':
> >
> > Paul, Paul, Paul...
> > I am actually getting quite tired of trying to work with you. But, I will
> > make a last attempt. This coming fall can result in no supplycenter gain
> > for you on my loss. I can cover Edi and you cannot reach Lpl. Also I cannot
> > gain anything from you. Please let this make sense and start work with and
> > not Austria! I am assuming you want to convoy your army over to the
> > mainland. Ok, I will continue to pressure my way into the Med IF I can
> > trust you. There is really no need for me fighting Austria while you are
> > getting slain by him while attacking me. See my point?
>
> If I thought you were serious about cracking into the Med, last season need not
> have
> happened. I warned you that a move to the Med would just be a bounce, and I
> advised you to go with F Mao-Naf so that it could support F Spa sc-Wes in the
> following season. You declined to even discuss this.
> By removing your F Spa nc last winter, instead of A Fin, you cheated
> yourself
> of a chance to move F Spa nc-Mao, following up on Mao-Naf. You would have had
> a much stronger position in the south vs. Austria.
> Instead, you settled for Fortress Scandinavia even after I had removed F
> Bal.
> I never believed that you had any intention of returning to StP; you needed Cal
> on
> your side vs. Austria too badly.
> So I thought about it. What if I could talk Chris into a convoy to Edi in
> the
> Spring? He might have moved it to Lpl in the Fall, giving me a shot at Edi (if
> you
> wouldn't have moved to Nwg). The other part of the deal was that Chris would
> support me to War, helping to break Russia.
> I mean't have been in on a winning partnership instead of a collection of
> small
> fry fighting the big guy. That was my frame of mind last season.
>
> >
> >
> > Please tell me if your honest intentions in this game is to give the
> > victory away to Chris, cause if that is the case I could as well signoff
> > from the game.
>
> I have never intentionally "thrown" a game to anyone, and I don't want to start
> here.
> What angered me was Cal talking in those terms, and no one seemed to blink an
> eye....
>
> > Your trust in him is starting to seem a little bit
> > redicolous. BUT, as I said, there is still time to make me change that
> > view. Show me some goodwill and some real intentions to work with me and
> > I'll start looking at you with respect again.
> >
> > Okay, I gave G/A one more shot in the vain hope that I could be in a stronger
> > overall position. It was my only hope in that regard, and now my delusions
> > of grandeur must be set aside. A huge dose of humility has been dealt to me,
> > and now I either work with you or (implicitly) allow Austria to win.
>
> So now I must get serious about helping E/R/T vs. A. I might start out with
> F Nth-C-A Lon-Hol supported by F Bel. A Pic could return to Bur.
> A Den could try to cover Kie, while A Pru could cut Ber as a support for
> Austrian Hol-Kie (although I recognize that A Mun can still serve in that
> capacity).
> By convoying A Lon-Hol myself, I free your F Eng to move to Mao. You can
> have F Spa sc support F Mao-Wms and finally enter into the Med theatre.
> My A Pie can try sneaking into Tus.
>
> Okay? I harbor no more illusions about Chris (actually they were
> delusions,
> since the A/G plans were mine in their inception).
>
> Paul