| Press for Spring of 1908 in ghodstoo |
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Movement
Private message from England to Turkey:
You there?
The Judge is back.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to France:
Hey, it looks like the Judge is back.
I wrote to Turkey, but haven't heard anything back from him. I'm going to
try to use him to put some pressure on Germany to 'cooperate', so that I
can get into Nth and Bal, if possible. As you said, there are many
possibilities, but I think my favorite involve my fleets getting into Bal
and Nth. Of course, I won't mention Baltic to Turkey.
GKJ
Private message from Germany to Austria:
Any plans, suggestion, or requests for the next turn?
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to Italy:
Any plans, suggestion, or requests for the next turn?
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to England:
Any plans, suggestion, or requests for the next turn?
-Pitt
Private message from Germany to Turkey:
Any plans, suggestion, or requests for the next turn?
-Pitt
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
You still awake there? (grin)
What do you have in mind this turn?
Cal
Private message from Italy to Germany:
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Any plans, suggestion, or requests for the next turn?
Nothing specific aside from fight France... :)
Cal
Private message from England to Germany:
Yeah, I guess we'd better get started.
I would like to go Lon-Nth. And I guess I think I should just sit tight in
Kie, preferably with some support--though I don't think France will try to
dislodge me in the Spring.
If you go Edi-Nwg, you could get Nwy in the Fall, although it would be
tricky to get it without losing Stp to Turkey or France. And my F Nth could
snag Belgium.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from England to France:
Hm, no, I am more inclined to do Lon-Nth.
I have been trying to get something 'coordinated', but Hohn doesn't answer
and Pitt only asked me what I wanted to do.
If I get no response at all, I think that's what I would like to order:
Kie-Bal and Lon-Nth. Is that ok with you?
GKJ
Private message from France to England:
Had any thoughts about tactics for the coming turn? Last I heard, you were
in favor of lon-eng and kie-bal. Is that what you've ordered?
Private message from France to Italy:
Sorry about A Mar. The judge failure messed me up. I did not get your
response until after the moves had processed, and my "set wait" did no good
with the deadline passed.
I now understand your position, and it's very sensible. I wish I could
convince you to be more aggressive (against Turkey, that is) but I can
understand that you'd be reluctant to take risks at this point.
I think you are wise to keep your units close to home.
John, France
Private message from Italy to France:
Not sure if this got through. Pardon me if this is a duplicate message.
> Message from [email protected] as France to Italy in 'ghodstoo':
>
> It's fairly obvious that Turkey will soon be looking at your centers for
> easy pickings. He can see that I have a good chance of stopping him from
> moving further west. Even if he does make headway, it' will be tough
> sledding, and he'll always have to worry about you in the backfield. So,
> unless you have more faith in Hohn than his behavior in this game warrants,
> you might consider preparing for the coming Turkish attack.
Right now, you stand to have the best shot at winning the game
outright. With Pitt collapsing rapidly on all fronts, you can pick up
his centres and have a shot at Scandinavia and even St Pete's. With
your unit in Tyrolia, you are across the stalemate line and, if you can
pick up any of Venice, Vienna or Trieste (or for that matter Tunis), you
will have your 18 centres.
Hohn understands this and he knows that, if he stabs me, I will throw
that 18th centre your way. I really can't see him able to stab me for
ALL of my centres on one turn. Even if he could, he'd have to use so
much of his forces to do so, you'd be able to advance across the
stalemate line. He'd end up watching you grab that 18th dot just as he
hits 15 or 16. Definitely not in his best interest and that's what I'm
depending on.
At the same time, I'm not going to press an attack on you in the Med so
hard that it takes me far from my centres. While Hohn knows he has much
to lose by attacking me, I don't need to tempt him like that. You
needn't fear me trying to break through your defenses and attacking your
homeland. Even if I could (unlikely), that's not in MY best interest.
> I reiterate my view of the game: this will end in a draw, unless we allow
> Turkey to win it. I do not see France having any chance to win, so I want
> to be part of the draw.
I disagree with the part that you cannot win. You can win unless I make
myself part of a stalemate line. Your part in a draw is a virtual
certainty, however.
> With that said, I renew my offer of support and friendship. I intend to
> build in Marseilles, but I can build either a fleet or an army. I would
> like your opinion of what I should do. It might sway my decision.
I'd rather you built a fleet so we can get on with the business of
building a Mediterranean stalemate line. But that's my (very) biased
opinion. :)
> Please also inform me how you see the coming year or two. Am I way off?
What do *I* hope for the next couple of years? I'd like to build up one
or two more centres and create a stalemate line in the Med that a) you
can't break through, and b) Hohn dare not attack for fear that you would
get Tunis. I'd also like to see the two of you eliminate England and
Germany and face off against each other in the Prussia to Tyrolia
neutral zone.
Once that happens, we can call a three way stalemated draw.
So, am I dreaming?
Cal
PS: btw, whatever happens, congrats on a well played game.
Private message from Master to Turkey:
Hi guys,
As you see, I have pushed the deadline for Spring (I believe that is
next) back until Friday. We are continuing to interact with summer
vacations and other little distractions that people appear (from my
point of view) to be managing as best they can with an eye toward
keeping the game moving. I must insist that everyone do their best
to make this July 25 deadline (including sending copies of their orders
to me if the Judge should repeat its slowdowns of recent past) since
another player could require a delay of the Fall deadline that follows.
Moreover, I will be away at a conference August 3-4-5, so I may have
to set the Fall deadline for August 6th, if that delay is required.
Then, I believe, we will run into the short vacation that Cal has
previously announced (am I remembering that right?).
Anyway, keep me up to date, please make EVERY effort to get your orders
in on time for Friday, and we'll do the best we can.
Thanks for your patience,
Jim
Private message from France to England:
GKJ,
I have not had much time to look over the board the last week or so. I
didn't ask for it, but I am grateful for the delay. That'll give us some
time to talk this through. What was the thinking behind lon-nth?
My concern is to make sure TI can't break into the Atlantic or pick off Spa
or Mar. I was thinking F Lon could help out. Then again, we've got that
pesky German fleet to contend with, so maybe Lon-Nth is the right move.
Private message from England to Master:
Oh, damn, that's bad. Because now the move will process Friday night, but
the retreat deadline will be Monday night, so I will not have a chance to
enter Fall movement orders before I leave Monday morning.
Could you set current deadline to Thursday instead, or does that not
address whatever problem you're addressing?
-Jamie
Private message from Master to England:
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Master in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Oh, damn, that's bad. Because now the move will process Friday night, but
> the retreat deadline will be Monday night, so I will not have a chance to
> enter Fall movement orders before I leave Monday morning.
>
The wording of the message should have made clear that I was aware of
this potential problem. One possibility is that there will be no
retreats. Another possibility is that I can "convince" whoever
owes a retreat to submit it right away over the weekend. My intent
was to try to do that. Also, if the retreat doesn't process until Monday,
then the following DEADLINE for Fall will be Monday August 4th.
You will be back then, won't you? Although I will be away then,
I won't change the deadline if you will be able to get your orders in
on that day. You may want to (your discretion, of course) ask
relevant players whether they will be around on that Monday and be sure
to negotiate with you then.
> Could you set current deadline to Thursday instead, or does that not
> address whatever problem you're addressing?
>
> -Jamie
>
No, because the player involved hasn't submitted his orders yet,
and will be away through Thursday, back Friday. He had hoped to
get them in before he left, but didn't. Although in a "regular"
game I probably would be pushing a little bit harder, my sense
is that for this demo game the next couple of moves will go a
very very long way toward deciding things (this is not news to
anyone) and I think it is best to be a little patient right now.
Thanks, I hope you understand. If you wish, of course, I would
put it to a player vote.
Jim
Private message from France to Austria:
I think you are correct that your suggestions would lead to some big
problems later. I've ordered tyr s vie. I am sure this is not the best
thing we can do, so let me know what you'd like. A Tyrolia is at your
disposal.
It appears that Trieste will certainly fall. Perhaps tyr-boh, leaving
tyrolia open for the retreat?
Private message from England to Master:
Ok, I get it.
If the deadline for the Fall movement is Monday 4 August, I will be back by
then, and I *might* be able to get the moves in. It's just that I would
have very little time to work things out, since I wouldn't return until
Saturday 2 Aug.
Well, I'll make the best of it.
Jamie
Private message from Master to Turkey:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Italy to Austria, England, France,
> Germany and Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
>
> > Message from [email protected] as Master to Austria, England, France,
> > Germany, Italy and Turkey in 'ghodstoo':
>
> > Then, I believe, we will run into the short vacation that Cal has
> > previously announced (am I remembering that right?).
>
> Not til September 1 (roughly).
>
> Cal
>
Whoops, Labour Day (spelled "your" way) is of course a holiday for us
too. I thought you were going to be away for Simcoe Day (is that what
it is called?) too. Is that August 4th?? Never mind..... return to
your regularly scheduled program....
Your slightly addle-brained GM,
Jim
Private message from England to France:
>What was the thinking behind lon-nth?
Well, if the German fleet leaves Edi (Edi-Nwg), I could go there from Nth;
if not, I would have two fleets against Denmark. If I bounce Germany in
Nth, that's a service in itself. It seems to me that Nth is the strongest
offensive position for my fleet, if I can get in. If you do Hol-Hel, it's
looking pretty grim for Germany.
>My concern is to make sure TI can't break into the Atlantic or pick off Spa
>or Mar. I was thinking F Lon could help out.
Yes, it could do that. I'll put it in Eng if you feel it's necessary. It's
a question of whether you want to be offensive against Germany, or
defensive against the others. And that may turn on how you feel about Italy.
If we go defensive, the game will rapidly become pretty stale. Then I
figure someone would probably break. Who? Would Turkey try to eliminate
someone? Would Italy turn? I don't know, neither of those looks very
promising. If you choose to go offensive, well, I suppose Italy *might*
just keep coming and coming, and maybe you'd find yourself in trouble in
the MAO or something... but how long could that last? Maybe you prefer to
move into a kind of stale position now, just to see what happens.
> Then again, we've got that
>pesky German fleet to contend with, so maybe Lon-Nth is the right move.
My gut instinct says to try to shorten Germany's lifespan as much as
possible, and play it from there. Get Denmark, and see if we can tempt
Turkey into Stp, and Germany is left with just a few scattered centers,
relatively trivial to mop them up. One fewer player to contend with, one
fewer variable.
But, let me stress, it's your call, I'll just order the fleet to English
Channel if you want. (But if Germany goes to Nth, then what? Or will you
cover Nth from Hol?)
GKJ
Private message from Master to England:
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Master in 'ghodstoo':
>
> Ok, I get it.
>
> If the deadline for the Fall movement is Monday 4 August, I will be back by
> then, and I *might* be able to get the moves in. It's just that I would
> have very little time to work things out, since I wouldn't return until
> Saturday 2 Aug.
>
> Well, I'll make the best of it.
>
> Jamie
>
I do want to make sure that I know what you want me to do before you
leave. You can think about it for a bit, if you like. I will be
at a conference in Newport (sun and fun!) on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday,
so if you DON'T want Monday to remain the deadline you need to tell
me BEFORE you leave. I will set it for Tuesday or Wednesday as you
suggest. Again, you may want to wait to see how Spring comes out and
whether there are any retreats.
Thanks,
Jim
Private message from France to England:
I think you should order lon-nth. Italy has said he won't stray too far
from home. Without his help, Turkey won't be able to get into the
Atlantic.
Private message from England to France:
Yeah, that's what I think.
Ok, so ordered.
And Kie-Bal, right? So feel free to fill in behind.
GKJ
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Just a quick note to let you guys know I AM here, but my mail server was
down all day yesterday. Right now, I have to go to work, so I'll write
tonight after my baseball game.
Ciao
Cal
Private message from England to Master:
Jim,
I'll let you know over the weekend if I do want a postponement. Probably
not, chances are I can manage without it.
I bet someone will be late tonight. The Judge says not all orders are in.
In the event that the Spring movement hasn't processed before I go, I am
going to leave PHASEd orders for the retreat phase. It is pretty unlikely
that I'll be dislodged from Kiel (and fail to enter Baltic as ordered), but
just in case. And if I do that, I am going to send you my intended retreat,
too. Is that ok? Because the PHASE syntax is a bit tricky, and I'm never
incredibly confident that I've got it right.
-Jamie
Private message from England to France:
So, we're coming down to the wire, I'd like to tie up some loose ends.
I've ordered Lon-Nth and Kie-Bal, and I haven't heard from anyone since
last I wrote to you. So I don't expect to be changing my order.
I bet someone will be late. The others seem to have lost interest!
As I said, I will be away next week. I'll check in a few times over the
weekend before I leave Monday morning.
If the move processes on time tonight, and the retreats are fairly obvious,
then maybe you and I can choose a Fall move for me over the weekend. In
that case I would not hold up the game by my absence. Since I will return
on Saturday (Aug 2nd), and the Fall movement deadline would be on Monday
the 4th, I could also wait until *next* weekend to enter my orders.
If the current move processes late, I ought to have no timing problems. Hm,
unless.... It's possible that I'll be bounced in Baltic and dislodged from
Kiel. Ok, if the Spring movement phase hasn't processed, I'll leave phased
orders for the retreat phase. That always makes me a bit nervous, but this
one should be straightforward enough. I'll have the fleet retreat to
Holland if (a) Hol is open and (b) it can't retreat to Denmark or Berlin.
Ok? (It's a long shot that it would have to retreat in any case.)
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Master to England:
Thanks, Jamie. I do understand your order and it ***looks*** right.
I will indeed "watch" over it.
Jim
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Sorry guy, but this is going to be quick. My mail server went down
> AGAIN (f%$#) this evening when I planned to write a detailed letter to
> the two of you. Now that my ball game is over (we won 24-1, thank you
> very much) it's too late for all that.
> Basically, my position is this. Edi is not going to be willing to trust
> us again (he isn't THAT stupid, by a long way) so I'd be skeptical of
> any offers to hit Tyrolia. I'd prefer to simply support Ven in place
> and make the fleet moves you proposed.
> Thoughts? Hopefully, I'll be able to get back to you tomorrow evening.
If he supports TRI-VEN, TYR S TRI-VEN, then we will bounce him from
PIE. You retreat to ROM, and we see what we can do about retaking VEN
in the fall. TRI will be yours.
Alternatively, if you want to loan me TRI for Spring, we can do
VEN-PIE, ALB-TRI, ADR S ALB-TRI, and guarantee a retake of VEN in fall
in the event that they do TRI-VEN, TYR S TRI-VEN. That's the only
possible way VEN can fall.
I think we should try to be more active, because we have a good chance
of destroying Edi's army in TRI this spring.
What do you want GOL to do? Support TYS to WES, right?
Hohn
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Sorry guy, but this is going to be quick. My mail server went down
AGAIN (f%$#) this evening when I planned to write a detailed letter to
the two of you. Now that my ball game is over (we won 24-1, thank you
very much) it's too late for all that.
Basically, my position is this. Edi is not going to be willing to trust
us again (he isn't THAT stupid, by a long way) so I'd be skeptical of
any offers to hit Tyrolia. I'd prefer to simply support Ven in place
and make the fleet moves you proposed.
Thoughts? Hopefully, I'll be able to get back to you tomorrow evening.
Cal
Private message from France to England:
Sounds good. Keep your orders as they are. I doubt you'll be dislodged
from Kiel. Stand-off, maybe.
Private message from Master to Turkey:
Hey, come on, I thought the extension was reasonable, but more?
Is there a problem I don't know about??
Jim
>
> :: Judge: USIN Game: Ghodstoo Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: S1908M Fri Jul 25 1997 23:30:00 EST Boardman: 1997KT
>
> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Turkey's orders.
> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Italy's orders.
> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Germany's orders.
>
> These powers will be considered abandoned and free for takeover
> if orders are not received by Fri Sep 5 1997 14:30:00 EST.
>
Private message from England to France:
Yeah, I knew someone would be late, but I didn't realize it would be three
someones.
Oh well. Now I guess I won't need a postponement.
GKJ
Private message from England to Master:
I'll be away this week, until Saturday night (Aug 2). To be realistic, I
don't expect to participate until Monday Aug 4.
Gentle King Jamie
Private message from Germany to Master:
And just discovered that they *still* weren't registered by the judge...
Trying again now.
>FYI, my orders were in before the deadline, too. I resubmitted them on
>Saturday after seeing the late message.
>
>-Pitt
>
>End of message.
>
>Movement orders for Spring of 1908. (ghodstoo.030)
>
>Germany: Army Denmark, No Order Processed.
>Germany: Fleet Sweden, No Order Processed.
>Germany: Army Prussia, No Order Processed.
>Germany: Fleet Edinburgh, No Order Processed.
>Germany: Army Berlin, No Order Processed.
>
>
>Orders not received for all units. If complete orders are not
>received by Fri Jul 25 1997 23:30:00 EST, you will be considered late.
>You will be considered abandoned if nothing is received by
>Fri Sep 5 1997 14:30:00 EST.
>
>
>
Private message from Germany to England:
>> :: Judge: USIN Game: Ghodstoo Variant: Standard
>> :: Deadline: S1908M Fri Jul 25 1997 23:30:00 EST Boardman: 1997KT
>>
>> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Turkey's orders.
>> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Italy's orders.
>> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Germany's orders.
>>
>> These powers will be considered abandoned and free for takeover
>> if orders are not received by Fri Sep 5 1997 14:30:00 EST.
FYI, my orders were in before the deadline, too. I resubmitted them on
Saturday after seeing the late message.
-Pitt
Private message from Italy to Turkey:
Okay guys, this is crap. My orders were sent in last night several
hours before the deadline. I realize I did not get confirmation, but I
DID send the orders in. I have now resent them.
Cal
USIN Diplomacy Judge wrote:
>
> News about USIN can be found at
> http://kleiman.indianapolis.in.us/usin.htm
>
> All unmoderated games will be removed.
> Judge keeper is [email protected].
> Judge address is [email protected]
>
> :: Judge: USIN Game: Ghodstoo Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: S1908M Fri Jul 25 1997 23:30:00 EST Boardman: 1997KT
>
> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Turkey's orders.
> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Italy's orders.
> Diplomacy game 'ghodstoo' is waiting for Germany's orders.
>
> These powers will be considered abandoned and free for takeover
> if orders are not received by Fri Sep 5 1997 14:30:00 EST.
Private message from Master to Master:
This is a test.
Private message from Master to Turkey:
The Judge apparently has been both up and down for significant periods
over the last few days. Unfortunately, part of its "down" behavior
has been to lose mail sent to it. Germany now has orders in, but
Italy and Turkey still don't. It seems to be working aOK now, so
please try again. I can and will request dedication points back
for GIT if you wish.
Sorry for the problems. Note England's message that he is out of
town this week. We are going to try to avoid a delay, but will see
how it plays out. I may just request an extra day or two.
Thanks for your patience.
Jim
Private message from Germany to Master:
>I can and will request dedication points back for GIT if you wish.
Not for me but thanks for offering.
BTW, I was talking to Jack Sinnott and Dave Partridge recently and I think
they're looking at mid to late August for another Dip Incident. Will you
be coming if they do?
-Pitt
Private message from Master to Germany:
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as Germany to Master in 'ghodstoo':
> >
> >
> > >I can and will request dedication points back for GIT if you wish.
> >
> > Not for me but thanks for offering.
>
> OK, but I did want to offer.
> >
> > BTW, I was talking to Jack Sinnott and Dave Partridge recently and I think
> > they're looking at mid to late August for another Dip Incident. Will you
> > be coming if they do?
> >
> > -Pitt
> >
> Absolutely. Please don't have it over Labor Day weekend, since I want
> to go to Brad Wilson's Dip gathering in Pennsylvania. If you talk
> to them (and I may do it too), remind them that my szine prints
> next weekend and I'd like to publicize it.
>
> Jim
>
My apologies. I'd submitted orders, but they must have bounced or
something. Then I had a very busy weekend and didn't have a chance to
resubmit the orders. They are now in, and I suspect the turn will
process very soon.
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
Dude, we are going to have to start communicating better, I think.
The below was the last I heard from you. Thus, since I hadn't
received confirmation that you wanted to attack Trieste (indeed, since
I hadn't received confirmation that you had received my letter at
all), I didn't support the move. I still thought you were going to
support VEN to hold. We could have gotten TRI, had we coordinated.
Also, what was up with the fleet moves? According to our original
spate of messages, I thought we were going TYS-WES? I'm not sure what
good TYS-ROM did.
Hohn
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:46:41 -0500
From: USIN Diplomacy Judge
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: Diplomacy notice: ghodstoo
News about USIN can be found at
http://kleiman.indianapolis.in.us/usin.htm
All unmoderated games will be removed.
Judge keeper is [email protected].
Judge address is [email protected]
:: Judge: USIN Game: Ghodstoo Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: S1908M Fri Jul 25 1997 23:30:00 EST Boardman: 1997KT
Message sent to Italy:
Private message from Turkey to Italy:
Cal,
> Sorry guy, but this is going to be quick. My mail server went down
> AGAIN (f%$#) this evening when I planned to write a detailed letter to
> the two of you. Now that my ball game is over (we won 24-1, thank you
> very much) it's too late for all that.
> Basically, my position is this. Edi is not going to be willing to trust
> us again (he isn't THAT stupid, by a long way) so I'd be skeptical of
> any offers to hit Tyrolia. I'd prefer to simply support Ven in place
> and make the fleet moves you proposed.
> Thoughts? Hopefully, I'll be able to get back to you tomorrow evening.
If he supports TRI-VEN, TYR S TRI-VEN, then we will bounce him from
PIE. You retreat to ROM, and we see what we can do about retaking VEN
in the fall. TRI will be yours.
Alternatively, if you want to loan me TRI for Spring, we can do
VEN-PIE, ALB-TRI, ADR S ALB-TRI, and guarantee a retake of VEN in fall
in the event that they do TRI-VEN, TYR S TRI-VEN. That's the only
possible way VEN can fall.
I think we should try to be more active, because we have a good chance
of destroying Edi's army in TRI this spring.
What do you want GOL to do? Support TYS to WES, right?
Hohn
Private message from Turkey to Master:
Jim,
Goddamnit, I hate it when things get all fucked up like this.
Cal didn't respond to my diplomacy. Thus, I was operating under the
assumption that he was doing what he said he'd do.
Then, he doesn't do what I proposed, he doesn't do what he said he'd
do, but he does some third thing altogether?? I mean, it's not like
he was hostile to me, so he wasn't stabbing. That is just bad, bad
miscommunication.
And what's up with Jamie?
I am really thinking that France will win now, or that at best we can
only force a draw situation.
Hohn
Private message from Master to Turkey:
Hello, do you have a problem that I can help you with? You still don't
have orders in, according to the Judge. I know you probably sent them,
but they were lost!
Thanks,
Jim
Private message from Master to Italy:
Cal,
You are moving to Tyrolia, Rome, and Trieste; and supporting the
Turkish fleet from Ionian to Tyr? That's what the Judge says,
but it also has you with an error flag. Could you clear it please,
so we can continue? Thanks!
Jim
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