| Press for Fall of 1901 in pouchtoo |
Movement
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Whew. Turkey and Austria both played nice to me, and England is not *quite* going all-out Churchill. But you were right, John is in for some trouble, looks like. This next round should be fun. Jamie
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I am disappointed with my own opening. Too nice to everyone. DMZ'ed Piedmont, et al., and Tyr and even Ven/Tri. My little world is extremely little. Manus
Message from Russia to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
Good thing I warned you, huh? Lotta good it did. If you're working on England, let me know whether you are aiming to get him to attack F or just to leave you alone. He might decide that a F/G war is a good opportunity to begin funneling armies through Norway. Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Sultan, I thought that went pretty well. I was biting my nails over trusting you to leave the Black Sea vacant, given what everyone was telling me about your northward predilections, but I'm glad I did. Italy is certainly making it abundantly clear that he's going to play Lepanto, huh? No other possible attacks are left for him! I can't say I like the way things are shaping up in the north, but I think I'll keep playing mainly in the south and worry about that later. Tsar Jamie p.s. From your recent broadcast, I see what you mean about all that junk at the end. I think you might solve that problem by ending your mail to the Judge with the word "signoff". And use the "endpress" command at the end of all press. I *think* that will do it.
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Kaiserungarn, Ah, very good. I'm happy, you're happy, everybody's happy so far. Except Germany. I think I want you to have your A Bud support my F Rum to hold. Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':
Coming out swinging? Or, massive deception to mask an evil FEG? Time will tell! Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
King Kal, I assume you have stopped worrying about that FG alliance. Fleet in Norway, not army, please. Ok? Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Oh, come on. You didn't *want* to take over Austria in the opening, because you were afraid of the horrible Juggernaut, remember? And you thought it would be foolish to open westward in a game like this one, and I think you are right. You have a nice, flexible position, and things are proceeding safely, and you are sure to get your share of Turkey when the axe falls on his turkey little neck, and you won't have to worry about any northern fleetbuilder for quite a while. And you have the best possible ally, don't forget that. So you don't pick up Trieste or Marseilles in 1901, big deal. I assure you, at least one of those will be yours in time. I admit that it would be more interesting if you had an army in Tyrolia, though. I'll give you that one. Why not discuss it with Austria and send one heading that way now? Tsar Jamie (moonlighting as psychotherapist)
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >I assume you have stopped worrying about that FG alliance. Pretty darn good assumption, I'd say...>Fleet in Norway, not army, please. Ok? Promise. One thing I might point out after looking at the Fall moves is this: England (moi) has F/G at odds and Russia with a full southern attack. Russia (toi) has Germany involved westward, Austria & Italy seemingly going after Turkey, Turkey being threatened by the two I just mentioned and a friendly English neighbour who is much more likely to choose a side in the west than attack north. What this all boils down to is that you and both have solid opportunities for expansion and no present threat to our security. I figure that means we should put that situation to our mutual advantage. To whit (I always wanted to say that), once the current situations develop a little further and our respective neighbours get completely involved, I can foresee a E/R juggernaut sweeping down out of the north crushing all opposition in our wake. Okay, so the cough syrup may have been a little strong this morning. Either way, it's something we should look at. If nothing else, it would probably take the rest of the board by surprise, an E/R seemingly out of nowhere. Comments? King Kal
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Oh, don't worry about my attitude -- I was mostly joshing about having a bad, boring opening. > And you have the best possible ally, > As do you.... > don't forget that. > I won't. :-) > So you don't pick up Trieste or Marseilles in 1901, big deal. I assure you, > at least one of those will be yours in time. > (Salivation.) > I admit that it would be more interesting if you had an army in Tyrolia, > though. I'll give you that one. Why not discuss it with Austria and send > one heading that way now? > Okey-doke. I just may do that.... It'd be nice to have something to do with my extra unit. > Tsar Jamie (moonlighting as psychotherapist) > Uh oh. What's the charge? Manus
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>>Fleet in Norway, not army, please. Ok? > > >Promise. Ok, good, now I can stop thinking about the north. > One thing I might point out after looking at the Fall moves ?? You mean, the Spring moves? Or, "after looking at the various possible Fall moves"? >England (moi) has F/G at odds and Russia with a full southern attack. >Russia (toi) has Germany involved westward, Austria & Italy seemingly going >after Turkey, Turkey being threatened by the two I just mentioned and a >friendly English neighbour who is much more likely to choose a side in the >west than attack north. True. Not unusual for England, but quite a surprise for Russia, to have that sort of security. Of course, it is not *obvious* that Austria and Turkey will be at odds, but it is pretty clear that Turkey will be focusing on the threat from the Mediterranean side, and not on me. >What this all boils down to is that you and both have solid opportunities >for expansion and no present threat to our security. I figure that means we >should put that situation to our mutual advantage. To whit (I always wanted >to say that), once the current situations develop a little further and our >respective neighbours get completely involved, I can foresee a E/R >juggernaut sweeping down out of the north crushing all opposition in our >wake. I can see that. Especially considering the fact that there's no possible stalemate line against us. (My favorite part of playing Russia :-)) >Okay, so the cough syrup may have been a little strong this morning. Either >way, it's something we should look at. If nothing else, it would probably >take the rest of the board by surprise, an E/R seemingly out of nowhere. Indeed. Well, let's see. Obviously, it will be a few years before anything like a serious thrust by us is possible. One nice thing is that we would hardly ever have to cooperate right out in the open, I mean, we wouldn't be supporting each other's moves except in case of an invasion of Germany. So the thing would be extremely well masked. The alliance would really mainly consist of our always choosing the 'right' next target, and never interfering in the other's projects (except possibly in Germany). Off hand, I think we'd need maybe some Italian help at some point. Or Austrian help, depending on various factors, but probably Italian if everything goes reasonably well for both of us. And then in the ending it might be you and me racing for Tunisia, or even preparing a 17-17 split (is this really feasible with E and R? I've never thought about it) and poor old Italy desperately hoping that his central position controlling the winning centers would be enough to get him a share of a draw... but this may be too painful for you to contemplate. :-) Hm, I must have that same brand of cough medicine. No, seriously, I always like thinking about these Big Picture plans, even though we both know that they are so often foiled by unforeseen developments. And I like the picture you drew, it's my favorite big picture so far. Tsar Jamie
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Greetings! Well, we DMZ'ed Venice and Trieste just fine. It looks like our friendship is secure. Given that, I would like to discuss with you the possibility of me breaking our DMZ. :-)
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>> And you have the best possible ally, >> >As do you.... Hey, that must mean we have the same ally! I wonder who it is. >> Tsar Jamie (moonlighting as psychotherapist) >> >Uh oh. What's the charge? Reckless endangerment? Turkicide in the first degree? Tsar J
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
Now that was not very friendly.
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> >> And you have the best possible ally, > >> > >As do you.... > > Hey, that must mean we have the same ally! I wonder who it is. > If you find out, let me know. I'm dying to learn. > >Uh oh. What's the charge? > > Reckless endangerment? Turkicide in the first degree? > Guilty. ...Well, guilty-to-be? Wrote Austria about Tyrolian possibilities. When (i.e., if) I hear back from him, I'll let you know. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Wrote Austria about Tyrolian possibilities. When (i.e., if) >I hear back from him, I'll let you know. Not holding my breath. It would be a lot easier to play this game if Austria would write. He hasn't said anything to me since the move, either, and practically nothing before. In fact, if Turkey had been more talkative, I think I would have lobbied you to change your tack and go after Austria first. But Steve is also mute, so what the hell, may as well go with the plan. Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >Hm, I must have that same brand of cough medicine. It's "Jack" something... um, Daniels! That's it! Jack Daniels Rumatiz medicine... @-) >No, seriously, I always like thinking about these Big Picture plans, even >though we both know that they are so often foiled by unforeseen >developments. And I like the picture you drew, it's my favorite big picture >so far. Yeah, mine too. It has a certain "elegance" about it. The thing to do now is just put it on the back burner until our respective situations develop. We'll stay in touch. King Kal
Message from England to France in 'pouchtoo':
Well, that was a bit of an eye opener. To me at least. I can understand John going for Burgandy if he didn't want you there, but to go to Denmark at the same time? Weird. Now he really only has Denmark as a guaranteed build. Hmmm, mysteriouser and mysteriouser. Anyway, it makes things easy for us vis-a-vis Belgium. I trust our previous deal is still on, so I'll just convoy in this turn. I assume you'll be taking a shot at Munich (just in case)? Have you heard anything from anybody? I think everybody is waiting for the other person to write in this game. ttyl King Kal
Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
Looks like you guessed right about Hohn, eh? Too bad he supported the Burgandy move. Would you have any objection if I convoyed my army into Belgium this turn? You aren't in a position to pick it up and I can (at least) make sure that Hohn won't have it either. Also, that second build (should I get it) will make it easier for me to have the firepower to attack him with in S02 (which I have definitely decided to do, btw). Comments? King Kal
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I feel a bit better now that F/G appears to be simply a product of my paranoid mind... :) Turkey sure looks to be cooked. Italy opening with an apparent Lepanto. Austria trusting Italy enough to leave Trieste open. Russia moving both armies straight south. I'm glad *I* don't have the yellow blox this game! Heard any interesting gossip? I haven't heard much of anything yet, aside >from John and Hohn both being REAL NICE to me (at least for the moment)... ttyl King Kal
Message from England to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Let's see... Russia moving three units south... Italy opening with an apparent Lepanto... Austria trusting Italy enough to not even cover Trieste... Just three more reasons to wish you hadn't drawn Turkey, eh? King Kal
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Cyrille: Not a lot for us to talk about so far this game, but I still wanted to keep communications open. Looks like a pretty good first turn for you. Italy didn't attack and Russia isn't in Galicia. Not a bad start. Keep it up and good luck! King Kal
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Jamie, You wrote: >I thought that went pretty well. I was biting my nails over trusting you to leave the Black Sea vacant, given what everyone was telling me about your northward predilections, but I'm glad I did. > I am as well. It goes to show that you can't believe everyone and especially not Hohn. However, now we've got to be a bit more precise about the nature and intention of our relationship. I, especially in light of the Western situation, wish to forge ahead with the R-T. I am concerned by the non-move into Gal as it gives the impression that you and Austria are tight. > >Italy is certainly making it abundantly clear that he's going to play Lepanto, huh? No other possible attacks are left for him! > Well, that's not precisely true. He could convoy to Greece. A serious Lepanto involves landing an army into greater Turkey and that's just a possibility right now. Italy's opening, I believe consigns him to a game without major breakout possibilities. The hold in Rom is terrible. I liketo use the second army vs. Russia (nothing like an Italian in War in '02). Fortunately for us, these Italians are quite nice. > >I can't say I like the way things are shaping up in the north, but I think I'll keep playing mainly in the south and worry about that later. > The good news: Germany is probably so scared that you will walk into Swe. The bad news: France and England opened strongly, Germany flailed and Italy stuck his head in the sand. Depending on how E-F split the builds, you may be facing King Kal in force by mid '03. If nothing else, France is already in a very nice position. If he can convince E to let him have three builds, convoy to Nwy and bounce G out of Hol, wow! And if G does something stupid along the way, stand by... I am looking for a commitment from you; then we can discuss our various tactical options. Sultan Steve.
Message from Turkey to England in 'pouchtoo':
King Kal, >Let's see... > >Russia moving three units south... >Italy opening with an apparent Lepanto... >Austria trusting Italy enough to not even cover Trieste... You left out Russia and Austria not fighting over Gal. > You two certainly have all the options. So far, Italy's looking feeble, Germany's on the ropes and I'm fighting for fifth place. It's early, but you and his Hohnnes look good. Any chance of a convoy to Nwy? Any tips? Take care, Sultan Steve
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Cyrille, Okay, now what? You've certainly managed to keep your options open. = I'm hoping I can coax you into making a (much) more definitive statement = this turn. And, I'd like it to be a statement for me, not Russia. I am = not greedy. I'm perfectly willing to split the centers and move in a = way that makes you comfortable. I just want someone to work with me. = Make it easy on both of us and "just say 'yes'". Steve
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Kaiserungarn, Are you listening? I am worried that you aren't getting my mail. Please tell me what you want to do in the Fall. Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Sultan Steve, >I, especially in light of the >Western situation, wish to forge ahead with the R-T. I am concerned by the >non-move into Gal as it gives the impression that you and Austria are tight. I was hedging. Isn't that obvious? >Well, that's not precisely true. He could convoy to Greece. A serious >Lepanto involves landing an army into greater Turkey and that's just a >possibility right now. It's possible, but it doesn't make sense. If he had any plan to attack Austria that brazenly, surely he would have an army bordering Trieste right now. I can't imagine a more Austria-friendly opening than the Italian one. >I liketo use the second army vs. Russia (nothing like an Italian in War in >'02). I like to put it Tyrolia, too, but usually planning to use it to balance things in the north. If Germany is under fire, I use it to support Munich; if Germany looks too aggressive, I use it to harass Munich. It's really too bad the actual Italy doesn't have A Tyo right now. I don't care if France grows a lot. (In fact, it might be good for us. If we do get kind of locked up against Austria and Italy, we want Italy looking over his shoulder.) I do care if England has too easy a time. You think France will get Belgium, but I think England will convoy to Belgium. England is neutral so far between Germany and France; I believe France will offer Belgium as an incentive. This winter I might build F Stp(nc) to correct the situation. But that depends on how things look in the south. >I am looking for a commitment from you; then we can discuss our various >tactical options. You have your commitment. Here's how I see the situation. With strong and strongly allied France and England, I couldn't afford to join a 3-way alliance with Austria and Italy even if they offered, because once they finished cutting you up Italy would have to turn west, and I'd surely be fighting Austria and England, both. By telling you that I'm complimenting you, in case you didn't notice. I could just promise and commit and so forth, but I'm showing you *why* I'm going with the R/T instead. What do you think I should do with the F Rum? My inclination is to rotate the three units: Rum-Sev, Sev-Ukr, Ukr-Rum. A better move is Rum-Bla, Sev-Rum, Ukr-Gal, but I suspect you will insist that the Black Sea remain vacant. As for you, since you'll get just one build, I suggest you order Con-Aeg, Ank-Con, and build F Smy. Otherwise you'll have real trouble with the Italian fleets. Tsar Jamie
Message from France to France in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to France in 'pouchtoo': > Now that was not very friendly. I agree, you trying to move to BUR after telling me you were OK with it but would ask for my support into BEL was definitely an unfriendly move. Good thing I was careful. What now, John? Ball's in your court. Wanna fight? Or do you want to try to patch things up? Hohn
Message from France to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to France in 'pouchtoo': > Now that was not very friendly. I agree completely. You trying to move to BUR after telling me you were OK with it and would in fact want my support into BEL in Fall was definitely an unfriendly move. Good thing I was careful. What now, John? Ball's in your court. Wanna fight? Or do you want to try to patch things up? Hohn
Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
Sure, convoy away. Better you in there than France. Best of luck. Kaiser J
Message from France to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, > Message from [email protected] as England to France in 'pouchtoo': > Well, that was a bit of an eye opener. To me at least. I can understand > John going for Burgandy if he didn't want you there, but to go to Denmark at > the same time? Weird. Now he really only has Denmark as a guaranteed > build. Hmmm, mysteriouser and mysteriouser. Plus he needlessly antagonized me. Had he just asked for the mutual bounce, I probably would have given it to him. But he said he was OK with it, and I took him at his word. Good thing I took out a little Marseilles insurance. ;) > Anyway, it makes things easy for us vis-a-vis Belgium. I trust our previous > deal is still on, so I'll just convoy in this turn. I assume you'll be > taking a shot at Munich (just in case)? We could do it that way. Alternatively, we could totally trash John by bouncing him in HOL while I take BEL. I'm hesitant to even suggest this, as I don't really want three builds (I know, poor baby), and I know you'll be uncomfortable with the idea. But the opportunity to slam him this hard, this fast...it's sooooooo juicy! We'd have initial disparity, for sure. But we'd rectify the situation immediately in 1902. And I hope you know I wouldn't be dumb enough to stab you, thus making enemies of you AND John when I could have a solid ally and a DEAD John, instead. By the time I'd even be _tempted_ to stab you (i.e. when John is completely neutralized), we'd have assuredly equalized centers and power by then, which would obviously dissuade me. I'll also agree to build no fleets in BRE, certainly. It's just a thought. If you're not willing, I'll certainly abide by the original agreement. > Have you heard anything from anybody? I think everybody is waiting for the > other person to write in this game. A one-liner from John. You, and Jamie. That's it. I think you're right (I personally have been swamped, as usual). Any other thoughts on the turn? My personal ones are that everyone is opening conservatively (well, except John, and he paid for his gamble). Hohn
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
Last minute word came to me that you were likely to attack. If you recall, you said it was okay if I bounced you in Bur, so that's what I tried to do. I knew you were moving there, so my move cannot possibly be construed as an attempt to get into Bur myself. Supporting your move is the hostile act, not my defensive move in response to what turned out to be solid information. That's not to say the situation is irretrievable, but let's call a spade a spade. I never wanted to fight. My wishy-washy strategy was to take the neutrals and see what shaped up. So far, not so good. I am very interested in disengagement. What do you propose? John
Message from France to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
John, > Message from [email protected] as Germany to France in 'pouchtoo': > Last minute word came to me that you were likely to attack. If you > recall, you said it was okay if I bounced you in Bur, so that's what I > tried to do. I knew you were moving there, so my move cannot possibly > be construed as an attempt to get into Bur myself. Supporting your move > is the hostile act, not my defensive move in response to what turned out > to be solid information. > That's not to say the situation is irretrievable, but let's call a spade > a spade. Come on. If you want to call a spade a spade, let's look back on what you said previously: > I am reconciled to you moving to Bur. I would appreciate your help in > taking Belgium. In regard to England, I'd prefer to leave options open > until we see the first round. If that's okay with you, I think we are > set.
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
Hohn, you wrote the following: >>But you lied to me, John, or at the very least, you attempted to mislead me. Your attempt to construe my support of PAR-BUR as hostile when you had told me that my moving to BUR was OK with you anyway is disingenuous, and flatly rejected. Unless you are prepared to take personal responsibility for your own diplomatic statements, I'm afraid we have little else to talk about. I can deal with, "OK, I tried to mess with you, sorry, let's try to move on from here." I have no desire to engage any further than I already have in drawn out "he said, she said" arguments, however. The tone and substance of your prior message to me regarding BUR/BEL is clear.<< Now, I think it would be quite easy for overheated rhetoric to get in the way of rational action at this point. My last message told you the truth. I was apprised of possible attack just prior to the last move. I tried to do the least possible to meet the rumored challenge, which was to do the bounce in Burgundy. If you had not supported the move, the result would have been a simple standoff and no harm done. I did not try to mess with you. It is quite true also that I did not move into position to take Belgium as I said I would, but I wonder what you would have done, given such information? In light of the rumor, I did interpret your support for Par-Bur as hostile. I can understand your reasoning, however, and I see no reason to question your motives. Hmmm. Perhaps my info source was trying to poison the well. My bad, then, for being gullible. I agree to your suggestions for disengagement. Your proposal is fair and sensible. I wish now I'd gone ahead with my original orders and defended in Fall if I thought it necessary. John
Message from France to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
John, > Now, I think it would be quite easy for overheated rhetoric to get in > the way of rational action at this point. I'm a blunt writer, John. I think you know that by now, and hope you understand it's nothing personal. > My last message told you the > truth. I was apprised of possible attack just prior to the last move. > I tried to do the least possible to meet the rumored challenge, which > was to do the bounce in Burgundy. If you had not supported the move, > the result would have been a simple standoff and no harm done. I did > not try to mess with you. It is quite true also that I did not move > into position to take Belgium as I said I would, but I wonder what you > would have done, given such information? In light of the rumor, I did > interpret your support for Par-Bur as hostile. I can understand your > reasoning, however, and I see no reason to question your motives. > Hmmm. Perhaps my info source was trying to poison the well. My bad, > then, for being gullible. I'm not taking issue with whether or not you received word of some kind of impending attack by me on you. I'm taking issue with the fact that you said you were OK with me moving to and getting into BUR, but then tried to bounce me. That is the lie/mislead I was referring to. And again, how can I "attack" you in Spring 1901? I'd already told you I was moving to BUR, and you'd already agreed to my being there. What could anyone else tell you about an attack by me that would make you any more uneasy, to the point where you want to try to invade my country in violation of our prior agreement? How is an attack by me on you even _possible_, under the parameters of the game and our negotiations? > I agree to your suggestions for disengagement. Your proposal is fair > and sensible. I wish now I'd gone ahead with my original orders and > defended in Fall if I thought it necessary. OK, sounds good. Let's try to move on from here, then. Hohn
Message from England to France in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as France to England in 'pouchtoo': >Plus he needlessly antagonized me. Had he just asked for the mutual >bounce, I probably would have given it to him. But he said he was OK >with it, and I took him at his word. Good thing I took out a little >Marseilles insurance. ;) I'm surprised he said he was okay with it. In his letters to me, he seemed really opposed to the idea. >> Anyway, it makes things easy for us vis-a-vis Belgium. I trust our previous >> deal is still on, so I'll just convoy in this turn. I assume you'll be >> taking a shot at Munich (just in case)? > >We could do it that way. Alternatively, we could totally trash John >by bouncing him in HOL while I take BEL. I've already thought of this, but I think I'd rather do it the way I suggested, pretty much for the reason you outline below: the disparity caused with you at three builds. Plus, do you REALLY want to get three builds and set yourself as a target? You'd be sending fire alarms to the guys in the East... >I'm hesitant to even suggest this, as I don't really want three builds >(I know, poor baby), and I know you'll be uncomfortable with the idea. >But the opportunity to slam him this hard, this fast...it's sooooooo >juicy! > >We'd have initial disparity, for sure. But we'd rectify the situation >immediately in 1902. And I hope you know I wouldn't be dumb enough to >stab you, thus making enemies of you AND John when I could have a >solid ally and a DEAD John, instead. I think with both of us against him and a bad result in S01, John is pretty much on the ropes anyway. >By the time I'd even be _tempted_ to stab you (i.e. when John is >completely neutralized), we'd have assuredly equalized centers and >power by then, which would obviously dissuade me. I'll also agree to >build no fleets in BRE, certainly. > >It's just a thought. If you're not willing, I'll certainly abide by >the original agreement. I'd prefer that, if you don't mind. >> Have you heard anything from anybody? I think everybody is waiting for the >> other person to write in this game. > >A one-liner from John. You, and Jamie. That's it. I think you're >right (I personally have been swamped, as usual). Was the one-liner from John fit for family consumption? grin >Any other thoughts on the turn? My personal ones are that everyone is >opening conservatively (well, except John, and he paid for his >gamble). I'd agree with your assessment. So far, only Turkey and Germany seem to be in any kind of trouble. ttyl King Kal
Message from England to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to England in 'pouchtoo': >>Russia moving three units south... >>Italy opening with an apparent Lepanto... >>Austria trusting Italy enough to not even cover Trieste... > >You left out Russia and Austria not fighting over Gal. I didn't want to depress you TOO much... >You two certainly have all the options. So far, Italy's looking feeble, >Germany's on the ropes and I'm fighting for fifth place. It's early, but >you and his Hohnnes look good. Any chance of a convoy to Nwy? Probably not. I want to see the situation in the West resolved a bit more before I think about taking on Russia. >Any tips? You know a good priest? :) I'll let you know if I hear anything you can use. King Kal
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Well, I feel a bit better now that F/G appears to be simply a product of my > paranoid mind... :) > For your sake, let's hope so. If you and Hohn are headed for Germany, maybe you guys will even toss li'l ol' me a bone. > Turkey sure looks to be cooked. Italy opening with an apparent Lepanto. > Austria trusting Italy enough to leave Trieste open. Russia moving both > armies straight south. I'm glad *I* don't have the yellow blox this game! > Well, I honestly haven't yet decided the whole Turkish issue. I've been lucky with Austria honoring the Tri/Ven DMZ, but I truly don't have any plans beyond Tunis. > Heard any interesting gossip? I haven't heard much of anything yet, aside > from John and Hohn both being REAL NICE to me (at least for the moment)... > That's more than I hear. Russia writes once in a while, and Hohn has been in touch. Turkey wrote back to my "don't be afraid of me; I have no plans" mail. But it's a very quiet game. :-( Manus
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
I just got an interesting piece of mail from someone who says you are thinking of asking me if I want to start with Greece rather than Tunis. For as silent as this game is, word does tend to get around, I guess, huh? Anyway, if this is indeed something you would like to discuss with me, feel free to contact me personally. Manus
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': >For your sake, let's hope so. If you and Hohn are headed for Germany, maybe >you guys will even toss li'l ol' me a bone. Don't worry. The welfare of the Italian peoples and their leader is never far from my mind... :) >> Turkey sure looks to be cooked. Italy opening with an apparent Lepanto. >> Austria trusting Italy enough to leave Trieste open. Russia moving both >> armies straight south. I'm glad *I* don't have the yellow blox this game! >> >Well, I honestly haven't yet decided the whole Turkish issue. I've been >lucky with Austria honoring the Tri/Ven DMZ, but I truly don't have any plans >beyond Tunis. It's good to know your plans are flexible. I know we'll be able to work together, perhaps even sooner than we expected. >> Heard any interesting gossip? I haven't heard much of anything yet, aside >> from John and Hohn both being REAL NICE to me (at least for the moment)... >> >That's more than I hear. Russia writes once in a while, and Hohn has been >in touch. Turkey wrote back to my "don't be afraid of me; I have no plans" >mail. But it's a very quiet game. :-( Hopefully, it will pick up after another turn or two when people start to get involved. King Kal
Message from Turkey to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, You wrote: >I just got an interesting piece of mail from someone who says you are thinking of asking me if I want to start with Greece rather than Tunis. For as silent as this game is, word does tend to get around, I guess, huh? Anyway, if this is indeed something you would like to discuss with me, feel free to contact me personally. Well, okay, what do you think about it? I have nothing else to do with Bul anyway, so I'm more than willing. And, frankly, if I could somehow believe I had gained favor in your sight, I'd be happy to build an army. I would request that you agree to go no further east by sea. I would also suggest a move of Rom-Ven (duh!) as the Austrian would no doubt be quite angry. I don't believe in being greedy nor in dividing centers that are not yet ours. Therefore, I will merely pledge to work closely with you and choose the best tactical/political option vs. Austria. Of course, all of this presumes Austria will not support himself in. He initially indicated some interest in going for Rum. I'll try to stoke those fires. This is merely one suggestion. I'm open to others and would like to work with you. I know you want to build a second fleet and I'm looking for ways to avoid feeling forced to compete with you. Work with me. Steve > >Manus >
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Cyrille, Well, the deadline approaches! I can't believe I've done anything to = hack you off, so I'll assume you've been busy. Have you any interest in Rumania? I've got no problem with you getting = three builds as long as they're all armies. I want an ally and I'm not = going to quibble over a center or two. I assume your intent on taking = Gre; no problem. What is your relationship with Italy? He seems quite willing to = negotiate, but I'm unsure of his reliability. The Russian is obviously = intent on the south, but didn't want to fully commit to either of us. = He's a major danger; that is why I'm proposing the move into Rum. It = also (I hope) would solidify our relationship. Let me know. =20 Steve =20
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Tsar Jamie, You wrote: >I was hedging. Isn't that obvious? Yeah, but I wanted confession. >It's possible, but it doesn't make sense. If he had any plan to attack >Austria that brazenly, surely he would have an army bordering Trieste right >now. I can't imagine a more Austria-friendly opening than the Italian one. > By the way, Italy passed along that "someone" had mentioned to him that I was interested in supporting him into Gre. I don't care--just want you to know that he's a bit of a leaky faucet. >>I liketo use the second army vs. Russia (nothing like an Italian in War in '02). >I like to put it Tyrolia, too, but usually planning to use it to balance >things in the north. If Germany is under fire, I use it to support Munich; >if Germany looks too aggressive, I use it to harass Munich. It's really >too >bad the actual Italy doesn't have A Tyo right now. >> Yup. Hohn is on top of the world at the moment. I can only hope that Cal, who knows how good Cho is, will stab early and hard. >I don't care if France grows a lot. (In fact, it might be good for us. If >we do get kind of locked up against Austria and Italy, we want Italy >looking over his shoulder.) I do care if England has too easy a time. You >think France will get Belgium, ***I didn't say that. I would not have been surprised--until Cal told me he was putting the fleet in Nwy (which I believe)******* >but I think England will convoy to Belgium. I agree. >>I am looking for a commitment from you; then we can discuss our various >>tactical options. >You have your commitment. >> Excellent! >> >Here's how I see the situation. With strong and strongly allied France and England, I couldn't afford to join a 3-way alliance with Austria and Italy even if they offered, because once they finished cutting you up Italy would have to turn west, and I'd surely be fighting Austria and England, both. >By telling you that I'm complimenting you, in case you didn't notice. I >could just promise and commit and so forth, but I'm showing you *why* I'm >going with the R/T instead. >> Not only do I feel complimented, I think your assessment is right on the money. >>> >What do you think I should do with the F Rum? My inclination is to rotate the three units: Rum-Sev, Sev-Ukr, Ukr-Rum. A better move is Rum-Bla, >Sev-Rum, Ukr-Gal, but I suspect you will insist that the Black Sea remain >vacant. I will not insist that it remain vacant as long as you tell me what you will do with it in S'02. Are you sure you'll get Rum with no support? Is Austria merely holding? >As for you, since you'll get just one build, I suggest you order Con-Aeg, Ank-Con, and build F Smy. Otherwise you'll have real trouble with the Italian fleets. Who says I'm only getting one build? OK, you're right. I believe we will be fine. I've no fear of Italy (yet) and his playing an army short (practically speaking) will insure that we will defeat Austria, particularly if you get Gal and Rum this turn. If you do, I want an autographed 8x10 glossy. Sultan Steve
Message from Turkey to France in 'pouchtoo':
Hohn, You ARE the man! With the pressure on and the whole world watching, you = shut Germany down, Italy crawls into a whole and England obeys your = every command. Seriously, you are off to a great start. I tried to get = Cal to convoy to Nwy, but no dice. He could put Nwg in Nwy and bounce G = out of Hol, but you're not THAT good, are you? Steve
Message from France to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, > I'm surprised he said he was okay with it. In his letters to me, he seemed > really opposed to the idea. Well, what he told you and what he told me pretty clearly differed (which isn't too surprising, I suppose). ;-) > I've already thought of this, but I think I'd rather do it the way I > suggested, pretty much for the reason you outline below: the disparity > caused with you at three builds. Plus, do you REALLY want to get three > builds and set yourself as a target? You'd be sending fire alarms to the > guys in the East... I know. The only reason I suggested doing it was because it would make our job against John _so_ much easier. > I think with both of us against him and a bad result in S01, John is pretty > much on the ropes anyway. See, the thing is, if he gets DEN and HOL, it's _not_ such a bad result for him. He gets two builds, same as you and me. True, if both of us are against him, we'll take him down eventually anyway; but it will take us longer, and in a game like this, I suspect every turn will count. Basically, the way I see it, letting him have HOL and having you in BEL just allows us all the option of fence-sitting for one more year. I'd personally rather have things declared, both because that will make me more comfortable, and because as I said above it will allow us to move more quickly on John (and eliminate him all the more quickly). I feel good about our alliance, Cal. I do. But until we're formally declared, until we move boldly against John, I'm sure you know that that army you're convoying into BEL could be used just as easily against me as it could be against John. And, if John builds one fleet and one army as I suspect he will if he builds two, then I'm also sure you know that that fleet could be used against _you_. See, that's why I prefer outright action when I'm confident in the alliance, as I am with you. Fence-sitting is not as powerful, tactically speaking, and it also leaves room for doubts, and those doubts can sometimes doom otherwise promising alliances. Now, I know you have your own security concerns--and it's my respect for you and your concerns that made me give you my commitment to supporting you into BEL, a commitment which I will certainly stand by, no matter what, if that's what you ultimately decide--but again, I ask you, would I ever consider stabbing you after making an enemy of John and building three this year? There's no way. I'd be slitting my own throat. Manus would be wary instantly, as soon as I built three, and John's predisposition toward me is amply demonstrated by his stab into BUR. If I were suicidal enough to turn against you as well, I'd have no allies and two, possibly three enemies. I'd really like to think I'm not quite that nuts. ;-) > >It's just a thought. If you're not willing, I'll certainly abide by > >the original agreement. > > I'd prefer that, if you don't mind. I understand, and I'll assume that's what we're going to do, unless my words above sway you. If they do, please just let me know and I'll change the plan. > >A one-liner from John. You, and Jamie. That's it. I think you're > >right (I personally have been swamped, as usual). > > Was the one-liner from John fit for family consumption? grin Heh. He said, "Now that wasn't very friendly." I of course responded with some sarcastic remark, and we had a bit of a fight over semantics and technicalities. Then he offered to "disengage," and for the time being, I've told him that was fine. > >Any other thoughts on the turn? My personal ones are that everyone is > >opening conservatively (well, except John, and he paid for his > >gamble). > > I'd agree with your assessment. So far, only Turkey and Germany seem to be > in any kind of trouble. Steve's a canny player, and I trust his ability to wiggle out of just about anything. John, well, he's hurting if he only gets one build. Otherwise, we have a serious fight on our hands. Hohn
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Tsar Jamie, >Hm. That's interesting. >I didn't tell him that. I've just checked my logs to make sure. OK, the only other possibility is that I mentioned it to E, which I don't believe I did (but I've not yet researched). In any event, the Italian has realized that he's painted himself into a very minor role and would like to change that. I'm working on the Greece angle with him, though I'm inclined to support you into Rum (I just wanted you to ask). If he'll go for it, I don't really care if it's successful or not. It will give us a huge edge on A-I. I've not heard from Cyrille either. I gather that Italy's in the dark as well. Again, this bodes well for us. I have to tell you that I'm not a big fan of your fleet "hanging out" (my term) in the Black. I can stomach it for this turn, but I would request in return that you build your army in War. This would help to preclude you being tempted to convoy into Ank or something similar. Also, you need War unless you get Gal this turn. Rumania's not in much danger unless Austria's got Gal or can afford to mount a credible attack on Bul. We have the edge. We're okay. Really. Assuming you get two builds, you'd be foolish not to throw something in the North, even if it's just A STP. Sev instead of War? I don't consider myself paranoid, but that would be expecting a lot from me. Sultan Steve
Message from Turkey to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, >Thanks for your message. I am beginning to regret my non-commital Spring, >and am anxious to work with you with a committed direction. We could indeed >keep Austria out of Greece as you propose, but the cost would be my 1901 >build. Not necessarily. To KNOW, however, would require info from Cyrille and he's not writing. > >You are right that with my Tunis build, I would feel safer building a second >fleet. So would I, but "safer" doesn't always win. How about this as a compromise? Take the fleet to Tunis. You can then build your second fleet and I won't have to prepare for a possible invasion. Now that we have a couple of extra days, let's try to hammer this out. Steve
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
> >keep Austria out of Greece as you propose, but the cost would be my 1901 > >build. > > Not necessarily. To KNOW, however, would require info from Cyrille and he's > not writing. > No, he sure isn't. > >You are right that with my Tunis build, I would feel safer building a > >second fleet. > > So would I, but "safer" doesn't always win. How about this as a compromise? > Take the fleet to Tunis. You can then build your second fleet and I won't > have to prepare for a possible invasion. > I think this would work fine for me. I'll do some thinking on it. Sorry so short -- horribly busy at work at the moment. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Still no word from Austria. I tried writing to him directly, since he reported some difficulty getting Judge press a while ago, but no dice. I don't suppose you want to change the whole plan and eliminate Cyrille first, huh? It's just such a pain trying to make big plans with someone who doesn't talk at all. (On the other hand, if we do manage to root out Turkey, an absolutely silent Austria will ensure that neither of us is tempted to abandon the IR alliance!) Tsar J
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Sultan Steve, >By the way, Italy passed along that "someone" had mentioned to him that I >was interested in supporting him into Gre. I don't care--just want you to >know that he's a bit of a leaky faucet. Hm. That's interesting. I didn't tell him that. I've just checked my logs to make sure. >I will not insist that it remain vacant as long as you tell me what you >will >do with it in S'02. Are you sure you'll get Rum with no support? Is >Austria merely holding? Unfortunately, I have no idea whatsoever what Austria will be doing. (I haven't heard a word from him since the S'01 results!) So, no, I'm not sure I'll get Rum without supporting. I suppose you have other plans for your A Bul than supporting my army into Rumania, huh? As for what I would do with a F Bla in S'02: my plan is to use it to support a new A Sev into Rum, while A Rum - Ser or Rum - Bud, for support-cutting purposes or even an attack; or else just S A Rum, or if neither of those is necessary, I'd put it back in Sev where it belongs. (Upon request I could have it support you to hold in Bulgaria, or support A Con-Bul if you were trying to move the A Bul.) Much as it would be helpful to have the extra fleet in the Med, I don't think it's feasible. If I tried to sail it through Con, I bet it would get stuck, or anyway the chances of that are much too high. (I feel sure you will agree.) Later, maybe, when you've cleared out some space in Aegean, or when we might temporarily trade centers to let my fleet out. Or you could just squish it (dislodge it and I'd disband it). That would be fine with me. It's amusing, but not terribly important tactically, for me to get that fleet into play. >Who says I'm only getting one build? OK, you're right. I believe we will >be fine. I've no fear of Italy (yet) and his playing an army short >(practically speaking) will insure that we will defeat Austria, >particularly >if you get Gal and Rum this turn. Hm, yes, that's a good point. I was a little worried about our getting bogged down. Hm. Well, if Austria adds Greece and Serbia, I'm not sure we'll be able to make progress against him. He'd presumably build two armies. With a lucky guess I could make some trouble for him, but it's not something I can count on. If Italy gets Greece, then I agree we have the upper hand. Oh, I get it. :-) Tsar Jamie
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Still no word from Austria. > Ditto here. I now have two items outstanding -- a "can I move to Tyr" message and another issue (which I can't remember right now). > I don't suppose you want to change the whole plan and eliminate Cyrille > first, huh? It's just such a pain trying to make big plans with someone who > doesn't talk at all. (On the other hand, if we do manage to root out > Turkey, an absolutely silent Austria will ensure that neither of us is > tempted to abandon the IR alliance!) > I leave it to you. To be honest, either way is perfectly fine with me. Going after Austria first would work well for me in that it would allow me to gain some trust with Turkey (my opening seems to have frightened him no end). He has offered to support me to Greece, but of course Cyrille can support himself in). I have no front against either power yet, and it wouldn't bother me to set one up against either one. Manus
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Hello again: Thanks for your message. I am beginning to regret my non-commital Spring, and am anxious to work with you with a committed direction. We could indeed keep Austria out of Greece as you propose, but the cost would be my 1901 build. You are right that with my Tunis build, I would feel safer building a second fleet, despite this being bad for working on the Austrian and despite the fact that it may cause you some worry. I want very much to get past this and work actively with you. To build more armies (if we work against Austria -- if he is with us and you two head for Russia, I would stick to fleets and perhaps head west), my second build must come from Austria (there goes non-commitalness, huh?), and I am thankful to you for your offer of assistance into Greece. Wishing to hear your thoughts on all the above, Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hmmmm. Hm hm hm. Well, it's tricky. You have no good attacks on Austria. If you tried to convoy, and either Austria supported a move to Gre or Turkey double-crossed you, you'd be kind of screwed. I wonder whether we can both finish the year without really committing either way. I could move an army to Rum and move my fleet to Black, you could convoy to Tun and maybe move the other army back to Venice. Hm, but then you'd be committing yourself by building. And sitting on the fence so long might just make Cyrille and Steve join up. Argh. Let's decide tomorrow. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Jamie: Steve is writing much more than Cyrille, and his latest is a suggestion that I take Tunis with the fleet. I told him flat out at the gamestart that my first build will be a fleet, and he says he is willing to work with me (us) even with two Italian fleets, if the first of them lands in Tunis and leaves the armies in the boot. My whole rationale for telling him I wanted a second Turk-friendly fleet was to keep him from having naval aspirations, keep him bottled up in the corner for an A/I/R attack. Now that we may be having a change of heart, a show that my fleets really are Turk-friendly would be good anyway. But it might tip our re-thinking to Cyrille. On the other hand, worst case it just delays a Lepanto thrust for a season, making it all the more surprising if it does happen.... Hmm. What to do, what to do.... Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Given the lack of correspondence, four more days is just four more days to > wait. :) > I hear ya. (And that's about ALL I hear.) Manus
Message from France to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Steve, > Message from [email protected] as Turkey to France in 'pouchtoo': > You ARE the man! With the pressure on and the whole world watching, you = > shut Germany down, Italy crawls into a whole and England obeys your = > every command. Seriously, you are off to a great start. I tried to get = > Cal to convoy to Nwy, but no dice. He could put Nwg in Nwy and bounce G = > out of Hol, but you're not THAT good, are you? Thanks buddy. Are you going to OrcCon this weekend? Hohn
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Sultan Steve, My plan was to build A War and A Sev. I do not particularly *want* to get involved in the North. In fact, I was hoping not to. I was hoping to have my F Swe just sit there and maybe support a neighbor, have him support me. Let the sparks fly, show the northerners that I am totally involved in the South, then as soon as Austria is on the ropes I'd jump in and make my presence felt in El Norte. However, if you are violently opposed to A Sev, then I'll build A Stp, A War. And then, sure, I don't mind moving the F to Sev in Spring '02. If I'm to be fighting Austria with just three armies (Austria will have at least three), I want to try to get Italy in on it. I assume you have no objection if I start to lobby Italy hard to get those armies of his bearing against Trieste, right? Along those lines, do you want him to convoy to Greece, or to move his fleet there? Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, Cyrille isn't giving us much of a choice. I would still rather ally with him, but I don't see how we can. So let's say that unless we get a flurry of Austrian notes in the next couple of days, we're changing the plan. (Changing back again will require both of us to agree.) I see what you mean, if you land a fleet in Greece, that will be about the end of the chances for a real AIR witch hunt. Hm. I guess my instinct is that you ought to convoy to Tunis and order Rom-Ven. That still leaves both good options. I will try to leave my units in an ambiguous position, too, while giving the main impression that I am planning to help Turkey stave off the fiendish AustroItalian Conspiracy that is obviously brewing (Why isn't Cyrille talking to me or to Steve? He must be talking to *somebody*! I wasn't sure what to do, but now I see that I *have* to join forces with Turkey just for defense. That sort of thing.) Anyway, let me know what you decide. Or don't let me know, just go ahead! Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Your suggestions were exactly what I was considering doing. Convoy to Tunis and send Venice to Rome. I think that my leaning is now toward the more talkative Turkey, but my moves should allow me to continue my claim Austrian friendship if need be (i.e., if Cyrille sends me any mail) for at least another season. Manus
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Tsar Jamie, You wrote >My plan was to build A War and A Sev. I do not particularly *want* to get >involved in the North. In fact, I was hoping not to. I was hoping to have >my F Swe just sit there and maybe support a neighbor, have him support me. >Let the sparks fly, show the northerners that I am totally involved in the >South, then as soon as Austria is on the ropes I'd jump in and make my >presence felt in El Norte. Only problem is that leaves StP vulnerable any time England wants it. And, he's not likely to care for you propping up Germany. You can try to ride the fence, but weakness in the North is likely to invite English naughtiness. As for Austria, I have two armies as well you know. > >However, if you are violently opposed to A Sev, then I'll build A Stp, A >War. And then, sure, I don't mind moving the F to Sev in Spring '02. I much prefer it. > >If I'm to be fighting Austria with just three armies (Austria will have at >least three), I want to try to get Italy in on it. I assume you have no >objection if I start to lobby Italy hard to get those armies of his bearing >against Trieste, right? Not at all. I'm already on that and may have secured his promise to take a fleet to Tunis rather than convoy. This would be huge in the effort vs. Austria. > >Along those lines, do you want him to convoy to Greece, or to move his >fleet there? He doesn't want to go unless Austrian communications make it clear it would work. So far, there haven't been any. Sultan Steve
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, I have decided on a course of action. I'm going to go ahead and convoy to Tunis (rather than dock the fleet there) and move my Rome army to Venice. I know you would prefer that I land the fleet, but this way I will be up against Greece for 1902 efforts. I don't want the fact that I'll be in the ION to frighten you. I would prefer to build a fleet in Naples (ION-ADR, NAP-ION would be the probability), but will at least consider building it in Rome if you are scared of a Lepanto thrust into your waters. Though Austria doesn't speak, if I build in Naples, he will think I am pro-A. By building in Rome, I just look indecisive. I think I can make him okay with Rom-Ven. So we will hopefully have his trust going into the next year. Manus
Message from Turkey to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, > >Okay, I have decided on a course of action. I'm going to go ahead and convoy >to Tunis and move my Rome army to Venice. I can't stop it, but this is demanding a LOT of trust on my part and none on yours. You maintain (if you build F Nap) the ability to Lepanto, which virtually forces a build of F Smy. That's why I suggested the fleet move, so that my build could be something else. >I know you would prefer that I land the fleet, but this way I will be up >against Greece for 1902 efforts. I don't want the fact that I'll be in the >ION to frighten you. I would prefer to build a fleet in Naples (ION-ADR, >NAP-ION would be the probability), but will at least consider building it in >Rome if you are scared of a Lepanto thrust into your waters. How could I not be "scared" (I prefer "concerned" by the way)? I'm just asking for one (count'em 1) sign of trust here; something I can work with. If F Rom leaves Austria thinking you're neutral, maybe he'll offer something to woo you back! Maybe he'll write! I'm not threatening or anything of the sort. I just wonder, if the roles were reversed, on what basis would you be trusting Italy to not go through with the Lepanto promised in the initial negotiations? I don't want to build a second fleet. I want to work this out. I'm just not sure how to do that if you convoy and build F Nap. Help me! Steve
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Well, dang. I really truly want to make sure you know I'm your friend. In hindsight, opening to the TYS would have been the way to go now, but it's obviously too late for that. I always like to at least abut Greece in the opening in case both A and T decide it could go Italian. I do realize where you're coming from, though, but I want to make sure we are both having something to do. If I put my fleet in Tunis, I have a year before it can do anything at all. A fleet in Rome is a year and a half away from any action anywhere. If we are to attack Austria, it makes no sense to me to move away from there and lose a year. I'd like to agree to build an army, but it just wouldn't work. Three armies and a fleet is no way to go for Italy. I was afraid this would happen, and this is the reason I came to you before anything else in the game and said "I intend to build fleets and will open to the ION." I have been up front with you about it from the beginning, hoping that this would show my desire for friendship. I am real sorry that I have only raised your level of concern rather than lowered it. I consider it a major diplomatic failure on my part. I know you want to see a sign (more than just my words) that my seagoing intentions lie ION and westward and no further east, and I wish I could come up with such a sign to show you which doesn't take me out of position for actually making some progress. My moves are already in for Apu-Tun and Rom-Ven but if we can come up with something you like better and that gives me a good position for next Spring, I'm all for it. Dang, I just got busy at work and will need to resume this conversation later. Aauugghh! Manus
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Sultan Steve, I know, leaving Stp open can be tempting to England. It would be a calculated risk. Anyway, I'm game for building A Stp, A War. So no problem there. I've suggested to Italy that it would be a very good idea for him to get those armies into a more aggressive posture. It's a shame that they can't get into the really good position they'd be ready for if he'd done something more ordinary with the A Ven (like hold!). But in any case, he seems amenable. I think he is a little worried about the idea of AI vs RT, considering that Cyrille isn't talking. He would like to make friends with either you or me now. So he ought to be open to at least a little persuasion, which will make things easier. I guess we're more or less set now. Let me know if you have any requests or if there are any new developments. Tsar J
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Tsar Jamie, I'm cool. The only development is Italy's insistence on playing a Lepanto and insisting that he's going to swing into Austria instead of me. On the face of it, it's great. But, I can't afford to not build F Smy (and might not anyway) when he'll have the ability to convoy into my backdoor if I don't keep pace. I had him taking the fleet back to Tun, but he changed his mind. Little matter with a comatose ally, Italy poses a small threat. Sultan Steve
Message from Turkey to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, >Well, dang. I really truly want to make sure you know I'm your friend. >In hindsight, opening to the TYS would have been the way to go now, but it's >obviously too late for that. OK, help me out here. What is the difference between opening to TYS and moving to Tun now? Tactically, assuming the pick-up of Tun, there is none. >I do realize where you're coming from, though, but I want to make sure we are >both having something to do. If I put my fleet in Tunis, I have a year before >it can do anything at all. A fleet in Rome is a year and a half away from >any action anywhere. If we are to attack Austria, it makes no sense to me >to move away from there and lose a year. All true. But, even you must admit that it would be a HUGE leap of faith for me not to build the second fleet given the circumstances your proposing. With what I am proposing, you'll be in position for a F'02 move into Gre (hopefully with my support. I'd promise it now but that might be foolhardy given my complete lack of knowledge of what the board will look like.) and a shot at Tri if you move into Ven now. If Russia moves as promised, Austria may have other, more pressing concerns than your A Ven. > >I'd like to agree to build an army, but it just wouldn't work. Three armies >and a fleet is no way to go for Italy. I was afraid this would happen, >and this is the reason I came to you before anything else in the game and said >"I intend to build fleets and will open to the ION." I have been up front >with you about it from the beginning, hoping that this would show my desire >for friendship. I am real sorry that I have only raised your level of concern >rather than lowered it. I consider it a major diplomatic failure on my part. Well, the term "Lepanto" was a little scary. I believe you, but I'm not sure I want to stake my gaming life on it yet. > >I know you want to see a sign (more than just my words) that my seagoing >intentions lie ION and westward and no further east, and I wish I could come up >with such a sign to show you which doesn't take me out of position for actually >making some progress. My moves are already in for Apu-Tun and Rom-Ven but >if we can come up with something you like better and that gives me a good >position for next Spring, I'm all for it. > Well, again, consider A Rom-Tus (or hold), A Apu-Ven, F Ion-Tun. Build F Nap. Then, F Tun-Ion, F Nap-Tyh, A Ven-Tyl, A Rom-Ven. There are some good possibilities for the fall. Steve
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
I think we're making progress! > OK, help me out here. What is the difference between opening to TYS and > moving to Tun now? Tactically, assuming the pick-up of Tun, there is none. > You've got a point there. I didn't think my statement out enough. I always open to ION because I like to test the Grecian waters. You're right that an opening to TYS puts me a season off my usual pace, and that's why I didn't. > All true. But, even you must admit that it would be a HUGE leap of faith > for me not to build the second fleet given the circumstances your proposing. > Yes, I suppose you're right. If you choose to build a second fleet, I will not (as most Italians would) consider it an act of war. Rather, I will view it as a defensive measure, and my moves will make it clear that our paths will not cross. > With what I am proposing, you'll be in position for a F'02 move into Gre > (hopefully with my support. I'd promise it now but that might be foolhardy > given my complete lack of knowledge of what the board will look like.) > My reason for wanting to stay in the ION is to make the possibility be a Spring one (though we might not exercise it until Fall, depending on how long we want to string the Silent Cyrille along) rather than a Fall one. > and a shot at Tri if you move into Ven now. > Indeed I am moving into Venice. > If Russia moves as promised, Austria > may have other, more pressing concerns than your A Ven. > I'm counting on it. :-) > Well, the term "Lepanto" was a little scary. I believe you, but I'm not > sure I want to stake my gaming life on it yet. > Understood. My apologies for tossing the scary word out there. Just wanted to acknowledge that Apu+ION in S01 might make you think the word, but that I have no intentions along those lines. I will understand if you protect your interests (as I probably would) but am very happy that we were able to talk about it all along so that we can work together no matter what army/fleet configuration we both choose. > Well, again, consider A Rom-Tus (or hold), A Apu-Ven, F Ion-Tun. Build F > Nap. Then, F Tun-Ion, F Nap-Tyh, A Ven-Tyl, A Rom-Ven. There are some good > possibilities for the fall. > My thinking sends Rom-Ven, Apu-Tun. "Half-Lepanto"? :-) I want to keep Austria (if his head is in the game at all) thinking that I am a friend to him. In '02, my new Naples fleet could go to ION while ION goes to ADR and in Fall I could convoy Tun-Tri or take it from Ven (w/ADR support) while you help me into Greece. I apologize for the rocky start, but I think by the end of '02 we will be very comfortable with each other. Manus
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Steve, That's a little disappointing, but it doesn't surprise me. I think Italy now sees that it's got to be an RIT alliance at the start, and he's just trying to position himself for the 'breakup' that comes when Austria begins to disappear. He wants to be the dominant Mediterranean power, so that you and I will fight each other instead of going our separate ways (with your separate way lying through Italy, and mine maybe through Germany with a little assist to your land division, I'm sure you get the picture). I hope that's what he's thinking, anyway. It's a superficially plausible plan, but I think you'll agree that it's not very well thought out. But we can discuss the details after the current phase is better established (like, when you're in Serbia and I'm in Budapest). Unless you'd rather get them all out on the table now? Tsar Jamie
Message from England to France in 'pouchtoo':
Geez, sorry this took so long, but I'm sure YOU can relate to long hours at work... :) Anyway, it was worth it. Just got a raise and a promotion! I admit your arguments in favour of going to Hol would make things harder for John, but I still want to stick with the original plan. I just honestly think that second build I can get will offset any advantage John may get with a second build of his own. I suppose, if I'm being honest with myself, the wimpy start I got in the last game that turned into a gamelong wheelspin is probably in the back of my mind, but I still think that we will have John by the short and curlies. If Russia had opened with a less southernly committed attack, I'd go along with you because then John would have a potential ally, but since Jamie did, John doesn't and I can live with that. As for your legitimate concern that I will be effectively "undeclared" in our war against John, I can understand that. In the Great White North, we call that "pulling an Edi"... if you catch my drift.... But anyway, that's something else I guess I have to ask you to do. My future actions will redeem me in your eyes. >> >Any other thoughts on the turn? My personal ones are that everyone is >> >opening conservatively (well, except John, and he paid for his >> >gamble). It bloody hard to get a read on a game when it's as damned close to GunBoat as this one seems to be. Even Jamie is only writing when written to and that's unusual (if Ghodstoo was any indication). Actually, that's another reason I want to work with you. Even though you go through "blackouts" when you get busy at work, for the most part you are a consistant communicator and will generally reply promptly. The only time John ever wrote me last game with any semblance of frequency was when he was trying to get me to stab you towards the end game. You and I both know that the most frequent writers get the best results. >Steve's a canny player, and I trust his ability to wiggle out of just >about anything. John, well, he's hurting if he only gets one build. >Otherwise, we have a serious fight on our hands. See above... As for Steve, yeah, I know, I've watched him in FTF action on several occasions (although I've never been in a game with him til now, I know how good he is; mind you, I rank you and him as about even). Next time you and I meet face to face, remind me to tell you a story about CanCon and Steve. These letters will be archived and this is "not for broadcast"... heh heh. Anyway, tty after the results. King Kal
Message from France to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, Sorry, swamped again, so I'll keep this short. OK, I'm totally fine with the plan, and I respect your reasoning. I'll do something (WHAT exactly, I'm not sure yet ;) ) non-BEL with BUR, and snag Iberia. Hohn
Message from France to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, > Geez, sorry this took so long, but I'm sure YOU can relate to long hours at > work... :) Anyway, it was worth it. Just got a raise and a promotion! By the way, congrats on this! That's awesome! I'm talking to Steve about going to World DipCon in May. Are you planning on going? Hohn
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Tsar Jamie, I'm alright with things the way they are. Sultan Steve
Message from Turkey to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, I'm okay, you're okay. Steve
Message from England to France in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as France to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Cal, > >> Geez, sorry this took so long, but I'm sure YOU can relate to long hours at >> work... :) Anyway, it was worth it. Just got a raise and a promotion! > >By the way, congrats on this! That's awesome! > >I'm talking to Steve about going to World DipCon in May. Are you >planning on going? > >Hohn I was planning on going but the schedule I have now may prevent it. I work midnights with Thu/Fri off. But, who knows? Lots can happen between now and then. Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
>Diplomacy game 'pouchtoo' is waiting for Austria's orders. >Diplomacy game 'pouchtoo' is waiting for Italy's orders. Hmmmm. >My apologies. I would have sworn up and down my orders were in! >They are now. > >Manus Hmmmm. Oh well, we'll soon see! Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
>Diplomacy game 'pouchtoo' is waiting for Austria's orders. >Diplomacy game 'pouchtoo' is waiting for Italy's orders. Hmmmm. >My apologies. I would have sworn up and down my orders were in! >They are now. > >Manus Hmmmm. Oh well, we'll soon see! Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
As long as we've got this extra time.... Are you ordering your A Bul to support me Sev-Rum? Tsar J
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Yes, your tsarness. Sultan S
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
FOR YOUR EYES ONLY! You know, I have to say that my experience with FTF'ers show them to be (in general) a very hot-tempered, not-so-nice, I'm right, you're wrong, bunch. This Cooley fellow apparently fits that mold. I don't want to drive any wedges between the communities, because I participate in both, but for my money, we PBEM'ers are the class act of the hobby. Manus
Message from Master to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
You know, if you start a press with 'FOR YOUR EYES ONLY!' it's almost a guarantee that I'll read it. I read through some of the Ghodstoo press yesterday. Incredible how much there is! Rick
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave, That's all I know about you. Nice intro you got. I'm the guy who = thinks it makes no sense not to start over, but I lost. So far, it would appear that the feared Hohn Cho (F) is off to a fine = start. Cyrille, your predecessor, had some thoughts of taking Rumania, = but apparently expired before they came to fruition. I am looking for = an ally--any ally. I would love to work an A-T and would agree to = (almost) any conditions. I think Russia is trying to straddle the fence = between you and I to maximize his options. Again, I am open to = anything. Steve ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BD4045.D0AF1C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablesignon tpouchtoo=20 jcalvinpress to aDave,That's all I know about you. = Nice intro=20 you got. I'm the guy who thinks it makes no sense not to start = over, but I=20 lost.So far, it would appear that the = feared Hohn Cho=20 (F) is off to a fine start. Cyrille, your predecessor, had some = thoughts=20 of taking Rumania, but apparently expired before they came to = fruition. I=20 am looking for an ally--any ally. I would love to work an A-T and = would=20 agree to (almost) any conditions. I think Russia is trying to = straddle the=20 fence between you and I to maximize his options. Again, I am open = to=20 anything.Steve------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BD4045.D0AF1C60--
Message from Italy to Master in 'pouchtoo':
> You know, if you start a press with 'FOR YOUR EYES ONLY!' it's almost > a guarantee that I'll read it. > Well, I have seen a picture of Jamie on his Web page, and though he doesn't wear glasses, I still knew that "YOUR EYES" in this case would number four. :-) Personally, she no matta me whether we start over or not. For this reason, I find it hard to believe that the call should be labelled so 100% cut-and-dried. But it's no water off my back (whatever that means). > I read through some of the Ghodstoo press yesterday. Incredible how > much there is! > I shoulda been in that game. This one has little press, and frankly, I am just not into it. Hopefully both of these will change.... Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Thanks for climbing aboard. Assuming we don't restart the game, here's the lowdown on things. I got one (maybe two) messages from Austria before he disappeared, but in that brief contact, we managed to do a lot. We agreed to DMZ Venice, Trieste, and (with Germany) Tyrolia. We also talked Lepanto. I asked if he wanted to do a Key, but he demurred. So I opened with the wonderful "A ROM H" opening. I got bored. From intelligence around the board, it was learned that Germany is going to be in for a rough ride (the steamroller is revving up). So with my Rome army doing little of anything, I wrote to Austria asking permission to go to Venice and then to Tyrolia so that he (now you) and I might either get in on the German feast, if there is to be one, or support a German Munich if we decide that is better. One or the other to slow down the E/F steamroller. I never heard back from Austria, but I went ahead and put my orders in assuming it was okay. So I'm moving Rom-Ven and convoying to Tunis. Turkey is none too happy that I opened Lepanto-like. I've tried to convince him I have no concrete plans (because I don't) but I will bet dollars to navy beans that he'll build F SMY. :-( I am hoping, then, that ROM-VEN might convince him to leave the waters to me for an extra turn or two, but I doubt it will be enough. I'd like, in short, to work with you, and what little view I have of my future has me heading into Venice/Tyrolia (looking anti-Austria to convince Turkey, but all with your full knowledge, and mostly to give my extra army something to do), and trying to get a hold on the Med. FYI, I have the standard DMZ with France, but I suppose if the steamroller gets too much momentum, I may have to be the one to break it. I don't know what you make of all this, but I suppose I will know as soon as you write back. Once again, welcome to the game! Manus
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Sultan Steve, 1. Unfortunately, my stupid joke turned out to be obscure. In my most recent broadcast, I was *merely* making fun of the fact that you had just broadcast the same message twice! 2. I personally have no objection to starting anew. It's just that I think it would have to be unanimous among the players to do that, otherwise it looks as though we are depriving those players who had the best starts of their advantages. In an earlier broadcast, I specifically mentioned King Kal, though as a matter of fact I don't think his opening position is above average for England. But some of our observers said that his was the best position, and he may possibly agree. I'm still happy to restart, personally. If everyone else agrees, I won't stand in the way. 3. In case the game does continue in the current position: I'll still commit to playing anti-Austria. Naturally I want to hear what this new guy says, but I don't think promises get cancelled whenever a new player shows up, so I will abide by our earlier agreement. 4. I think I'll say a little something more in a broadcast, to capitalize on the fact (and it is a fact) that some onlookers think that your most recent broadcast shows a rift in T/R relations. If I can encourage this appearance, I think it will make Italy more likely to take Austria as his first target. Let me know what you think of this idea, I won't say more in public until I hear from you again. Tsar J
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Tsar Jamie, Actually, I don't REALLY mind continuing the game, but I don't = understand why everyone's so against re-starting. It's not like we've = got a major stake in this thing time-wise. Anyway, I don't know the "new Cyrille". I would like to maintain our = agreement, if that is acceptable to you. I'll understand and won't = (necessarily) get paranoid if you want to see what the other guy offers = first. That's your call. Sultan Steve
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Steve, >Dave, > >That's all I know about you. Nice intro you got. I'm the guy who = >thinks it makes no sense not to start over, but I lost. > Well, can't say I know a whole lot about you either (<:. I've seen your name around I know, perhaps in TAP? I've been in the hobby for probably 7 or 8 years now, but I quite playing through the judges 5 years ago when I changed jobs and have been doing postal and FTF only since then. Just to let you know, so you don't think I'm ignoring you, my email is at work and my boss is not sympathetic to playing games during working hours. That means that I tend to send/receive messages in the morning before work starts or in the evenings when it's over. I do check it everyday, but I don't have access on the weekends. This week however, the boss is away, so I should be able to catch up quickly and get things going. >So far, it would appear that the feared Hohn Cho (F) is off to a fine = >start. I know he's a big name on the judges, but as I said, I've been off them for years, so I haven't run into him. Of course I once had a high ranking on the judges myself, so I know how little that means (<:. I did follow ghods in TAP, so that's my sum experience of Hohn Cho. Just enough to know to watch out for him. > Cyrille, your predecessor, had some thoughts of taking Rumania, = >but apparently expired before they came to fruition. I am looking for = >an ally--any ally. I would love to work an A-T and would agree to = >(almost) any conditions. I think Russia is trying to straddle the fence = >between you and I to maximize his options. Again, I am open to = >anything. > Well, given the Russia opening, there does not appear to be anyway I can take Rum, even with your support, so an attack there would seem rather ill advised. I'm not at all adverse to an A/T, even though I did just get reamed in on as Austria in the Diplomacy World demo game, but it's pretty hard to pull off if both Italy and Russia are playing a southern game. What we need to do is to convince either/both of them to make moves on their other fronts. A big, big plus would be if we could get Germany to bounce Russia out of Sweden. That would force him to use his build in STP, and would open up the options for us considerably. We should also both work on getting Italy to head west, playing as much as possible on the Fearsome French reputation. If we really want to do this, an early attack is also best, which would mean my moving to Gal and you moving to Bla and Arm. Are you open to this? The big problem of an A/T is of course that T ends up wrapped around A, leaving him rather vulnerable. Since I'm still picking the blades out of my back from the last time I tried that, I'd want to take a pretty cautious approach as far as my own defense. Having you expand into Russia with armies and towards Italy with fleets would make me rather uncomfortable. How do we work around that and keep things equitable enough that you'll be okay with it? From my perspective, given the strength of your position in an A/T, it's reasonable that your early growth is slower so that I can have enough force to head north and still protect my homeland. What are your ideas on this? Looking forward to a good game! -Dave
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Manus, Thanks for the rundown. I'd kind of assumed some sort of A/I pact from the opening (<: . I'm definitely in favor of an A/I, particularly if there is a strong E/F forming, even more so given the reputations of those two! The question is really how to maximize our growth so that we are ready for the inevitable French incursion into the Med. Given the openings, I'd expect that we'll see France taking Por and Spa. England could convoy into Belgium without Germany being able to do anything about it, but if I were them, I'd have him go to Holland instead to bounce the German and prevent a build. That means France might even get three builds, although I doubt it's too likely. With that kind of start against Germany, and Russia in the south, you might even see France heading south in 1902, I'd certainly be pushing for it as England. Based on that, I have no problem with you going to Ven, but I think you might need to go to Pie, not Tyr next. Sounds like we probably will not want to do anything to speed the fall of Germany, and if we are going to prop him up, I can probably better spare the army there than you can. Having armies in both Pie and Tyr is a lot stronger for us as well. When you say you have a standard DMZ with France, does that include TYS or not? The problem with Lepanto is that it takes a long time to get Italy a second build, leaving you vulnerable to France, especially with fleets going east. There's something to be said for moving a new fleet to TYS, but if we want to take out Turkey, then you need to be in Ionian and Eas/Aeg. My suggestion for the moment is that you move as intended (armies to Tun and Ven), then build F Nap. I'll take Gre and have to consider whether or not to try for Gal (thoughts on that?). I'll do my best Diplomatically to turn the Turk back towards Russia, and of course you need to do the same. If he comes out into Aegean, we are going to have a hard time of it unless we can get Russia to join us. For next year, a lot will depend on what France builds. You need to apply as much pressure as possible (without annoying him of course (<: ) to get him to not build in Mar, or, if he's getting three to make sure it's an army. If he does build there, then I'd suggest that you move the army to Pie, perhaps even telling him you are doing so and arranging a bounce. If he does come your way we could even consider you taking Trieste for a build, depending of course on what happens with R and T. If there seems to be any hope of working with Russia, then I'm disinclined to take Gal as that would just cement the R/T. Let's see what we can both do to cement the idea of an AIR vs EF set up. Regards, Dave P.S. My email is from work and generally I can only check it in the mornings before we start or in the evenings. This week is an exception as the boss is away. I don't have any access on the weekends, but I do check twice a day during the week. Just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you later on. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I just heard from Dave, and I must say I'm impressed. He speaks long and clear on the possibilities for an A/I, wanting very much to keep Turkey bottled up and to get you (Russia) into an AIR alliance to combat a strong E/F. He warns about the possibility of an early French presence in the Med, and says that he's fine with my upcoming move Rom-Ven (which I told him about). Gotta run, Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
> Thanks for the rundown. I'd kind of assumed some sort of A/I pact from > the opening (<: . > Exciting, wasn't it? :-) > When you say you have a standard DMZ with France, does that include TYS or > not? > It includes a prohibition against my having a fleet in BOTH TYS and Tun at the same time without approval, a similar one against France having fleets in BOTH MAO and Spa/sc at the same time, and it includes a ban on fleet builds in Rome and Marseilles without prior approval. Whew! Sorry so short -- hope to respond to your mail more fully later, but for now, work work work.... Manus
Message from Italy to France in 'pouchtoo':
In filling the new Austrian in on my diplomatic situation, I summarized
the DMZ I have with you as below. I want to run it past you because I
admit I inserted a clause in the translation, but it's one that I imagine
you're fine with, and so I'd like to get your approval on it:
Neither France nor Italy shall, without prior consent of the other:
(1) build a fleet in Rome or Marseilles,
(2) move any unit into Piedmont,
(3) move a fleet into the Gulf of Lyon, the Western Mediterranean, or
North Africa,
(4) station a fleet in BOTH the Tyrrhenian Sea and Tunis,
(5) station a fleet in BOTH the Mid-Atlantic and on the south coast
of Spain.
As you can see, I added point 5, which is the French equivalent of point 4.
Just wanted to see if this is okay with you. If so, I would like us to
consider it as part of our agreement.
Manus
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Hi new guy. > Hi yourself! I strained my memory trying to decide where your name is familiar from but think I've finally got it. I quit playing on the judges about 5 years ago, but one of the last games I played in was a play test of a variant called Juggernaut. I believe you and Tim Snyder co-authored it, or is my memory as faulty as ever? Anyway, a pleasure to be here. > Quick recap: > in the opening, I agreed with Austria that we'd make Turkey our first > target. He (Cyrille) suggested some moves for me, I made them. Then he > stopped talking. > > I'm sure you'll understand my situation: I feel that I have to reassess > everything now, but I certainly don't plan to penalize you for Cyrille's > disappearance. > > Italy appears to be an abject coward, but you'll have to figure that stuff > out for yourself! > I can certainly understand that you do need to reassess. Having said that, I'd like to make my case for staying with Cyrille's plan. While I have not played with most of the people in this game (Cal being the exception), their reputations do preceed them. The moves and the information that I've been getting (quite an outpouring so far!) seems to point towards and E/F forming, do you think this is the case? If it is, then I think that an AIR, at least for the moment is going to be necessary. England is in position to limit Germany to a single build, and France could possibly get three. With my preliminary evaluation of Italy the same as yours (I was going to say "extremely cautious", but just because I was being polite), I think we have to worry about France coming into the Med early on, and probably doing rather well against Italy. Given all that, I think we need to get Turkey out of the way quickly for a number of reasons: 1) So that you are free to build in the north and slow down England/shore up Germany. 2) So that Italy can spare his attention for the west. 3) In the case that Italy proves either spineless or incapable of putting up a good defense, to remove Turkey from the backfield so that I can take out Italy and assume the defense of the Med. In the long run, I like the A/R alliance a lot. It's a little slower to get going in the Med than the A/I, but has the great advantage of those northern fleet builds. If we play a fast offensive game, I think we can beat out an E/F. In the short term, I think we should go with an AIR to take out Turkey and evaluate the threat from E/F. Specifically, I'd suggest that we make the attack on Turkey as hard and fast as possible, with Italy setting up for the Lepanto, my taking Greece this turn, and you pushing south. The best moves in my opinion would be: Russia: Sev - Arm, Rum - Bla, Ukr - Rum Austria: Bud s Ukr - Rum, Alb - Gre, Ser s Alb - Gre That would pretty much guarantee the fall of Turkey rather quickly. > Very best wishes, and hopefully, > Tsar Jamie Well, I hope you're Tsar Jamie as well, or I'm in big trouble (<:. Best regards, Dave P.S. Just in case you're free the weekend of March 7/8, that is the date of the next Diplomatic Incident in Boston. We'd love to have you come. I'm expecting Jim Burgess to be coming up from Providence on Saturday so maybe you could carpool or take the train together. P.P.S. My email access is from work and generally I can only do gaming before or after the work day starts. This week is an exception as the boss is away. I don't have access on the weekends. I do check it twice a day and don't expect any problems in keeping up with things, just didn't want you to think that I suddenly started ignoring you next week! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Italy to France in 'pouchtoo':
Oops. Just to be pedantic about something that doesn't really need to be, our agreement also forbids moving an army into North Africa. NAf should move out of point 3 and up into point 2. All correct? Manus
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Hi yourself! I strained my memory trying to decide where your name is >familiar from but think I've finally got it. I quit playing on the judges >about 5 years ago, but one of the last games I played in was a play test >of a variant called Juggernaut. I believe you and Tim Snyder co-authored >it, or is my memory as faulty as ever? Yeah, that was me! I knew that I knew your name too, but I never would have remembered that it was from Juggernaut. Yes, I do think there is an E/F, not forming but formed. I don't know what to do about it. I'd like to help prop up Germany, but on the other hand I expect to be busy in the South and don't want to have any trouble in the North if I can help it. If I try to help Germany and fail, I'll certainly be next on England's list. If I leave them alone, I think maybe England might decide to use his positional advantage against France next (envisioning French moves into the Med). I agree with you about needing the AIR. I am a little wary of leaving you really big and strong at the end of the opening, but under the circumstances it appears to be the best approach for me. (My thinking is that I would build northern fleets as soon as Turkey has been rendered harmless, and you would push your armies into Germany, or maybe the remnants thereof if Germany succombs to the F/E.) Off hand, I'm a little worried about your suggested move, because I'm a naturally conservative player. I admit that it is by far the best anti-Turkish move, but to be brutally honest, it leaves me very wide open in case you've really decided that you should be on Turkey's side in this fight. Hm. Give me another day or two to mull it over. I *think* I'm with you on this. Tsar J p.s. I think I'll have to pass on the Incident (again!). With three kids, my weekends are kind of busy.
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Well, I just heard from Dave, and I must say I'm impressed. He speaks >long and clear on the possibilities for an A/I, wanting very much to keep >Turkey bottled up and to get you (Russia) into an AIR alliance to combat >a strong E/F. He warns about the possibility of an early French presence >in the Med, and says that he's fine with my upcoming move Rom-Ven (which I >told him about). Hm, yeah. Listen, if France does plan to occupy the Med next, I'm afraid I think we have to do something about that, no matter which way we decide to align in the South. I mean, either we eliminate Austria, and then you have to face France and you might get pincered by F and T, or we eliminate Turkey, you go fight France, and then I'm up against England and Austria. I don't see any other way. (Unless I could persuade Austria to attack you :)) I hate to do it, but maybe I ought to assist England into Germany, and hope he'll take that as a good reason to stab France soon. That would ease everything up. Or can you think of some other idea? I guess I could prop up Germany and take Norway, then I could hold out in the north with minimal forces and maybe take on either Austria or Turkey myself if you turned west. The other thing to worry about (I know I haven't given you enough yet) is that it does not seem as though you will be able to get a Turkish center any time soon, even if we do go AIR. You'd be stuck at four centers until the end of '03. Yike. That's too vulnerable. If we go with IRT, maybe you could take Greece and flank Trieste. We'd promise Serbia to Turkey, I'd stay at 6 for the year but that's not so bad since I'd have four in the south and nobody threatening me. If you guys took Ser and Gre and you had Tri flanked at the end of '02, I'd probably get Bud or Vie in '03. Yeah, but Turkey isn't going to help you get Greece, that would be stupid of him. To give you the better position after Austria falls. Another thought: maybe I should be working Hohn to prepare an attack on England. My line would be obvious: France can't wait around hoping England will remain friendly, that always ends up badly. Hm. Tough game. Hey, maybe we could start over! Tsar J
Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':
Hohn, I feel that I'm beginning to get myself into a good diplomatic position in the south (knock on wood). Here's this problem I've been worrying about. Suppose that you and King Kal invade Germany, as to all appearances you are about to do. Then either I sit around and let you do it, or I try to help Germany survive, or I actually support Kal into Denmark or something. If Germany is overrun fast, then I'm afraid I face King Kal and a southerner at once, and I don't expect to be strong enough to do that (I might be reasonably large, but not large enough to fight on two fronts when everyone else is fighting on one). But if I support John, then either I succeed, in which case I'm really screwing up your personal game plan by freezing you until some southerner comes for you in the Mediterranean, or I fail, in which case [see above scenario about fighting Cal plus someone in the south]. I hate all of these scenarios. But what's the alternative? I bet you would *like* to get a surprise stab in against Cal in 1903 or so. Because I bet you don't want to see an endgame with England strong, since those are always bad for France. But I bet you don't feel like you'll be able to do it, because you think some Medi-power would take grossly unfair advantage of you. Somehow it seems like our two concerns should be mutually remediable. I can see a number of possibilities. Is there anything that occurs to you? (Needless to say, I may be deceiving myself, it's quite possible I'm about to feel the knife myself and won't be around to work with you in '04. Doesn't seem like that's true, but, you know how it is.) Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Yeah, that was me! > I knew that I knew your name too, but I never would have remembered that it > was from Juggernaut. > Well, I remember it because I got to play the Juggernaut. As I remember, I had I/R and I had a lot of fun with the game because I formed an A/I vs an R/G and then gave Russia the solo. Even in the EOG no one guessed that R had been part of the Juggernaut. Did you keep the variant going? Has it been played much? > Yes, I do think there is an E/F, not forming but formed. > Thanks for the confirmation. > I don't know what to do about it. I'd like to help prop up Germany, but on > the other hand I expect to be busy in the South and don't want to have any > trouble in the North if I can help it. If I try to help Germany and fail, > I'll certainly be next on England's list. If I leave them alone, I think > maybe England might decide to use his positional advantage against France > next (envisioning French moves into the Med). > That would obviously be your call. If you think you can influence it that way, then holding off until just after the stab would be a good move. Of course, in an AR, you can't stay down south too long, makes the natives restless (<:. > I agree with you about needing the AIR. > I am a little wary of leaving you really big and strong at the end of the > opening, but under the circumstances it appears to be the best approach for > me. (My thinking is that I would build northern fleets as soon as Turkey > has been rendered harmless, and you would push your armies into Germany, or > maybe the remnants thereof if Germany succombs to the F/E.) > > Off hand, I'm a little worried about your suggested move, because I'm a > naturally conservative player. I admit that it is by far the best > anti-Turkish move, but to be brutally honest, it leaves me very wide open > in case you've really decided that you should be on Turkey's side in this > fight. Hm. > As I saw it, you really only had two good choices in the south. The first is to have Sev and Ukr support Rum, the only way to protect it in the face of an A/T, and then T gets into Bla and Arm anyway if there is an A/T (the last time I tried one, in the Diplomacy World demo game, I got a broadsword in the back from my Turkish ally), or the all out attack. A single support on Rum isn't worth anything as it can be overwhelmed. To let you know up front, when I've formed an alliance I have a tendency to think in terms of the moves that will work best for the alliance as a whole. That means that I sometimes forget to consider how the moves might look to my ally in reference to our relative positions. If my suggestions look like I'm trying to set you up, please point it out rather than assuming the worst. I don't have a problem with taking a slower approach if necessary, I just tend to think in a rapidly offensive style because I've found it works quite well. Should you not be comfortable with the wide open attack on Turkey, I'd still like very much to work with you. I'm equally willing to say that you need not tell me how you want to do it. In that case though I would prefer not to use Bud to support Ukr to Rum as I would not want to tip my hand to Turkey if you opted for the hold. That makes it a little more risky, but I don't see Turkey opting to bounce you for Rum without a commitment from me. Regards, Beirmeister Dave > p.s. I think I'll have to pass on the Incident (again!). With three kids, > my weekends are kind of busy. > I know what you mean. I have two myself (4 & 2) which is why I host my own little con rather than going to one. This way I can get away with only one night out and usually arrange for the in-laws to drop in while I'm gone. There's no carry over, so if the mood strikes, feel free to come by either day. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Austria to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
Greetings! First the brief intro. I used to play on the judges about 5 years ago, but dropped out due to a job change and easy email access. Since then I've been playing actively postally, and running a local con in Boston twice a year to get my FTF fix. The one consistent thing that I've been hearing in this game already is that you are facing an E/F that is gunning for you. Don't know what that is worth as I'm the newcomer and people tell me all kinds of things about everyone else (<:. Anyway, I wanted you to know that as long as that is the case you certainly don't need to worry about any pressure from the south, and, in fact, if I can resolve things quickly enough down here I might be able to lend an army for support should you desire it. Not much else to say now except hi, and I'm looking forward to a good game. Regards, Dave P.S. I access my email now from work and can only do that before or after the working day, and not all on the weekends. I do check it twice a day, so I don't expect this to be a problem, just letting you know that I'm not ignoring you if you don't get a quick response. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hello Cal! Greetings once again. Due to lamentable circumstances we didn't get to do much in our Black Hole game in Costaguana. I'm looking forward to making up for that here. There's not much that Austria and England can do together in the early years, and that often leads to them being locked into opposing alliances and never even considering how well they can work together in the mid-game. I'd like to avoid that and keep the lines open with you. Our distance can make us very good allies as the chances of a stab are greatly reduced. However the opening moves shake out, we should consider how joint action might work for us in a few years, particularly should Italy and France lock horns in the Med. Looking forward to the game, -Dave _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Austria to France in 'pouchtoo':
Vive le Empereur! (Or some such, my high school french is rather rusty.) I don't think we've ever played together as I can't make it to the big cons (small children don't leave much time for gaming). I used to play a lot on the judges but dropped out about 5 years ago due to loss of easy email. Since then I've been playing a lot postally and organizing a small local con in Boston to get my face to face fix. While an A/F is not that common an alliance, I have found that it can work reasonably well as long as France does not make too large a commitment into the Med. Were this still Winter 01 I'd be strongly advocating that an F/G vs E to help position us for the possibility, but it appears to be too late for that. However, simultaneous attacks on E and I in a few years could still lead to a very powerfull alliance, and I don't want to rule that out. So, let's keep the lines open and see where the first few years lead us. Best regards, Dave _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Germany to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Welcome to the game, and thanks for taking over the position. I am not sure E/F are solidly united. It could be that F is more inclined that way now. He thinks I violated my word on the first turn. I tried to explain, but who knows if he accepted? In any case, I appreciate your offer of help. I would be very happy to see Austria on my side in this one. John
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
On the JUGGERNAUT variant: I think there were only two games played, and in both the Juggernaut was Russia and someone else. >To let you know up front, when I've formed an alliance >I have a tendency to think in terms of the moves that >will work best for the alliance as a whole. That >means that I sometimes forget to consider how the moves >might look to my ally in reference to our relative >positions. If my suggestions look like >I'm trying to set you up, please point it out rather than >assuming the worst. I had that problem in Ghodstoo. As England, I allied with Pitt Crandelmeier, playing Germany, and we invaded France early and hard. I convoyed to Belgium. That made him very nervous, so he stabbed me. I remember being very disappointed that he hadn't instead told me, "I don't like your being in Belgium, give it to me instead." I would have. (I think. :-)) >I don't have a problem with taking a slower approach >if necessary, I just tend to think in a rapidly >offensive style because I've found it works quite well. Yeah. Actually, I want to be very careful not to be the 'leader' in this particular game. Always a problem with Russia, and especially so in this game I expect. But I don't mind subduing Turkey very early if we can manage it. >Should you not be comfortable with the wide open >attack on Turkey, I'd still like very much to work >with you. I'm equally willing to say that >you need not tell me how you want to do it. >In that case though I would prefer not to use >Bud to support Ukr to Rum as I would not want to tip my >hand to Turkey if you opted for the hold. That makes it >a little more risky, but I don't see Turkey opting to >bounce you for Rum without a commitment from me. Aha. Yes, good. That's fine. Ok, either I will go with your plan, or I will let you know that I want to be a little more conservative and that you can use A Bud for whatever you want. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, I am personally not convinced that there ism uch danger of an entry by France into the Med anytime soon, but the point is well taken that if France and England are too tight (tighter than I can make myself with France) then we will have a problem, and I'm glad to know you're on my side if this happens. The way I see it, we choose between Austria and Turkey, and I grow to be as friendly with France as possible in the meantime, while you do the same with England. Then, as you say, perhaps we help our respective partners against each other, perhaps even feigning a war between you and I. All too far in the future to say anything for sure, but my policy for now will be to cultivate French friendship and subtly try to make sure that after Germany is dispatched, his next target should be England (suggesting, eventually, the possibility of contacting you, if he doesn't bring it up first). > The other thing to worry about (I know I haven't given you enough yet) is > that it does not seem as though you will be able to get a Turkish center > any time soon, even if we do go AIR. You'd be stuck at four centers until > the end of '03. Yike. That's too vulnerable. > This is definitely possible (to be left without a build for a while). As long as my alliances are firm, I'm actually okay with that. My philosophy as Italy is three-fold -- patience, patience, patience. Turkey has to break out to succeed, but Italy has to sit back and wait for slow growth. > If we go with IRT, maybe you > could take Greece and flank Trieste. We'd promise Serbia to Turkey, I'd > stay at 6 for the year but that's not so bad since I'd have four in the > south and nobody threatening me. If you guys took Ser and Gre and you had > Tri flanked at the end of '02, I'd probably get Bud or Vie in '03. Yeah, > but Turkey isn't going to help you get Greece, that would be stupid of him. > To give you the better position after Austria falls. > Understood. My only chance for growth anytime soon is probably Trieste. Dave has actually offered to loan it to me if I need it to build western (I assume this offer is void if I show any anti-Austrian moves :-). Anyway, flanking it may not even be necessary. It seems perhaps my fate in this game is to always have a unit with nothing to do, so perhaps it will indeed be this way. > Another thought: maybe I should be working Hohn to prepare an attack on > England. My line would be obvious: France can't wait around hoping England > will remain friendly, that always ends up badly. Hm. > As indicated, E/F partnership is fine as long as it doesn't last. I will also point out repeatedly the strong terms of the DMZ Hohn and I have set up, and how good it has been to us, and how England is so scary, etc., etc. > Tough game. > Hey, maybe we could start over! > LOL! Manus
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': > > >Hello Cal! Hi David! Nice to hear something from Austria besides silence! ;) >Greetings once again. Due to lamentable circumstances we didn't get to >do much in our Black Hole game in Costaguana. I'm looking forward to >making up for that here. Sounds good to me. >There's not much that Austria and England can do together in the early >years, and that often leads to them being locked into opposing alliances >and never even considering how well they can work together in the mid-game. >I'd like to avoid that and keep the lines open with you. Our distance can >make us very good allies as the chances of a stab are greatly reduced. >However the opening moves shake out, we should consider how joint action >might work for us in a few years, particularly should Italy and France >lock horns in the Med. I'm always open to the unexpected alliances and I especially love looking to the long term. We'll keep in touch and see what develops. I'll give you a game summary in a couple of days. Better you should have a chance to gather your own impressions of what's going on. Feel free to ask any questions. I also like cross-board info exchanges. Talk to you soon. King Kal
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
So, which way are you leaning? Here's my basic feeling. I really like the idea of being rid of Turkey forever. On the other hand, I am not thrilled at having a fairly large Austria with a gigantic army sitting on my flank. That's why I can't quite decide. On the bigger picture: what do you think about the idea of my building A Stp in the winter and actually trying to take Norway? The idea is that just my two or three units plus Germany's can stand off an E/F combination. So maybe France gets frustrated and flips over to the Witch-elimination approach. In the mean time, I have made a loyal friend of John. Of course, the downside is that I have a very angry England and I don't know quite what he'd do. And maybe I'm mistaken, maybe G/R can't really hold off a concerted E/F. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> So, which way are you leaning? > Sadly, but not surprisingly, I guess I'm standing straight up. :-( > Here's my basic feeling. I really like the idea of being rid of Turkey > forever. > As do I. We descendants of Columbus want the waters down here to smell of garlic. > On the other hand, I am not thrilled at having a fairly large > Austria with a gigantic army sitting on my flank. That's why I can't quite > decide. > I'm with you. One thing to keep in mind is that Austria has offered me Trieste for the asking. Perhaps I can "ask" at a time that turns out to be inopportune for him (assuming we do Turkey first). Trouble is, even though we've played only a single move, and had only but little in the way of press, I feel like whichever way we go (Austria or Turkey) will see me betraying a trust, something I usually don't do right off the bat. I haven't promised not to Lepanto, but I've sure been talking friendly. As for Austria, we have a good and already honored DMZ, which could extends to a center-loaning alliance. > On the bigger picture: what do you think about the idea of my building A > Stp in the winter and actually trying to take Norway? The idea is that just > my two or three units plus Germany's can stand off an E/F combination. So > maybe France gets frustrated and flips over to the Witch-elimination > approach. In the mean time, I have made a loyal friend of John. > I wouldn't do this without letting France know beforehand, subtly feeling him out for how much help he might be if England had troubles or something. I don't want a run for Scandinavia to be seen as an attack on E/F, when it is just an attack on E. > Of course, the downside is that I have a very angry England and I don't > know quite what he'd do. And maybe I'm mistaken, maybe G/R can't really > hold off a concerted E/F. > Well, here's a possibility. Talk long and hard with England about the following type of thing. You want in on the German party that he and France seem to be having, but you want to cull German favor and surprise him. Offer to pass German intelligence to E/F. So you tell him that you would like to build A StP and attack Norway in SPRING 1902 (NOT costing him a center), thus ensuring that Germany will tell you his most intimate secrets. Then, in the Fall, when Germany expects England to attack Norway to take it back, you say that your true desire is a surprise convoy Nor-Den using his North Sea fleet and your support from Sweden. As for what you TRULY do that Fall, you (and Germany?) can decide. Just an idea. I guess with the pace of the game we have time to try these kind of things. And a tres chic tactic for a demo game, anyway. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Trouble is, even though we've played only a single move, and had only >but little in the way of press, I feel like whichever way we go (Austria >or Turkey) will see me betraying a trust, something I usually don't do >right off the bat. I'm in a similar situation. I even have a fairly 'neutral' move available, but if I do that one I'm afraid they'll *both* see me as betraying a trust! And that's the one thing we really don't want. On the other hand, there is a pretty good chance I could get away with it... on the other hand (I have three), what's the point, really? I'm certainly going to betray one of them, why not in '01? Ugh. >I wouldn't do this without letting France know beforehand, subtly feeling >him out for how much help he might be if England had troubles or something. >I don't want a run for Scandinavia to be seen as an attack on E/F, when it >is just an attack on E. Hm. Yeah, but he'd tell Cal, and then Cal would defend Norway. >Well, here's a possibility. Talk long and hard with England about the >following type of thing. You want in on the German party that he and >France seem to be having, but you want to cull German favor and surprise >him. Offer to pass German intelligence to E/F. So you tell him that you >would like to build A StP and attack Norway in SPRING 1902 (NOT costing him >a center), thus ensuring that Germany will tell you his most intimate >secrets. Then, in the Fall, when Germany expects England to attack Norway >to take it back, you say that your true desire is a surprise convoy Nor-Den >using his North Sea fleet and your support from Sweden. Holy cow. I don't think Cal is sufficiently credulous for that kind of thing. I see Manus as sort of semi-committing to the attack on Germany, but quite opportunistic enough to jump on England if it looks like he's got a good chance to come out ahead. The more obvious approach, slurping up a German center, has a couple of drawbacks. First, it would leave England positioned to start convoying into my territory, and not terribly well positioned to take on France (though really England is practically always well positioned to take on France, I guess). Second, of all the northerners I much prefer John as an ally. Well, I'll figure that part out. So how are we going to decide whether it's AIR or TIR? I think all the info is in now. Shall we each consult our innermost heart and write down our answers on slips of paper then exchange them? Shall we flip a coin and see whether we are crestfallen when it comes up heads? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Hi new guy. Quick recap: in the opening, I agreed with Austria that we'd make Turkey our first target. He (Cyrille) suggested some moves for me, I made them. Then he stopped talking. I'm sure you'll understand my situation: I feel that I have to reassess everything now, but I certainly don't plan to penalize you for Cyrille's disappearance. Italy appears to be an abject coward, but you'll have to figure that stuff out for yourself! Very best wishes, and hopefully, Tsar Jamie
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>> Is that advice about the game, or about my personal life? >> >I doubt that you need either. :-) I was gonna say that. :) Listen, if Steve really will fly off the handle, I'm delighted. If he suddenly turns from a fearsome opponent into a third-rate "I'm gonna get you no matter what I do" player, I'm pretty confident that that would be an advantage. Nothing so comfortable as an entirely predictable opponent. But I personally think he's putting on a show. (For whom? I don't know.) I've written to Dave, too. We'll have to see what develops. I'm inclined to stick with the anti-A program, myself. We've got Steve kind of stuck now, and I'd like to force him to carry through with this plan that is pretty obviously not to his advantage. But let's see what Dave says. -J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> First of all, who is Dave? Do you know? > Not a clue. I've already sent him a message, though, giving him the rundown on things (mentioning only pro-Austrian tendencies in myself, of course). > Second, > > Is that advice about the game, or about my personal life? > I doubt that you need either. :-) Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hi. First of all, who is Dave? Do you know? Second, >FOR YOUR EYES ONLY! > >You know, I have to say that my experience with FTF'ers show them to be (in >general) a very hot-tempered, not-so-nice, I'm right, you're wrong, bunch. >This Cooley fellow apparently fits that mold. I don't want to drive any >wedges between the communities, because I participate in both, but for my >money, we PBEM'ers are the class act of the hobby. Is that advice about the game, or about my personal life? :-) -J
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave,
>Well, can't say I know a whole lot about you either (<:. I've seen your
>name around I know, perhaps in TAP
Well, this is my first e-mail game. I've played via snail mail for many
years ('tho not many games at a time) mostly in CCC. My rep has been
established in ftf. I'm the current Avaloncon champ and have won more than
a dozen other convention Dip tourneys.
>so you don't think I'm ignoring you, my email is at work and
>my boss is not sympathetic to playing games during working hours.
I understand completely. I work graveyard and have no access to e-mail at
work. I also work overtime, so may not always be prompt.
>
>I know he's a big name on the judges, but as I said, I've been off them for
>years, so I haven't run into him. I did follow ghods
>in TAP, so that's my sum experience of Hohn Cho. Just enough to know to
>watch out for him.
I've played against him for years. His best ability won't come into play
here. He is able to convince players that they are helpless to stop him
even if he has relatively few pieces (9 or less). It's funny (and maddening
sometimes) to watch.
>
>Well, given the Russia opening, there does not appear to be anyway I can
>take Rum, even with your support.
Assuming Russia stays put, you are correct.
I'm not at all adverse to an A/T, even though I did just
>get reamed in on as Austria in the Diplomacy World demo game, but it's
>pretty hard to pull off if both Italy and Russia are playing a southern
>game. What we need to do is to convince either/both of them to make moves
>on their other fronts. A big, big plus would be if we could get Germany
>to bounce Russia out of Sweden. That would force him to use his build
>in STP, and would open up the options for us considerably. We should also
>both work on getting Italy to head west, playing as much as possible on
>the Fearsome French reputation.
>
>If we really want to do this, an early attack is also best, which would
>mean my moving to Gal and you moving to Bla and Arm. Are you open to this?
Yes I am.
>The big problem of an A/T is of course that T ends up wrapped around A,
>leaving him rather vulnerable. Since I'm still picking the blades out of
>my back from the last time I tried that, I'd want to take a pretty cautious
>approach as far as my own defense. Having you expand into Russia with
>armies and towards Italy with fleets would make me rather uncomfortable.
>How do we work around that and keep things equitable enough that you'll be
>okay with it? From my perspective, given the strength of your position in
>an A/T, it's reasonable that your early growth is slower so that I can have
>enough force to head north and still protect my homeland. What are your
>ideas on this?
Even without your previous experience, this is a difficult alliance for
Austria. However, I am a patient Turkey. I am willing to concede you most
of the builds as you are assuming most of the risks. As I said, I would be
willing to be very flexible in working to keep you as comfortable as
possible. For this to work, there must be a high trust quotient and I know
it is incumbent upon me to give more than get.
Steve
Message from Turkey to Master in 'pouchtoo':
Rick, I'm gradually getting this, although I still forget to end my missives appropriately. >Turkey: Steve Cooley. Noted FTF player. My introduction to Steve was at AvalonCon '97, where I watched him win best player based upon two >2-way draws in three games. That's a good start. I could point out more than another dozen tournament victories, several top board finishes at DipCon, one meager postal win, etc., but it's probably best to have the least rep. These guys are pretty good. Especially Hohn. Steve >
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> >I feel like whichever way we go will see me betraying a trust... > > I'm in a similar situation. > Misery loves company, I suppose. > I even have a fairly 'neutral' move available, but if I do that one I'm > afraid they'll *both* see me as betraying a trust! > Can't win for losing. > And that's the one thing > we really don't want. On the other hand, there is a pretty good chance I > could get away with it... on the other hand (I have three), > I got you beat. Two on my person and two in my name (Manus, of course, being Latin for "hand"). > what's the > point, really? I'm certainly going to betray one of them, why not in '01? > Yeah, that's what I keep telling myself. But which? > Ugh. > Ugh is right. > >I wouldn't do this without letting France know beforehand > > Hm. Yeah, but he'd tell Cal, and then Cal would defend Norway. > Yeah, that's the risk. > >Well, here's a possibility. ... > > Holy cow. > I don't think Cal is sufficiently credulous for that kind of thing. > Didn't like that, huh? :-) > I see Manus as sort of semi-committing to the attack on Germany, but quite > opportunistic enough to jump on England if it looks like he's got a good > chance to come out ahead. > For me, I assume you mean Hohn. I will make sure he knows his south is save (since I want my west safe) and hopefully this will convince him he's safe gobbline both German and English centers with your help. Maybe it's time we approach him about an F/I/R. > So how are we going to decide whether it's AIR or TIR? I think all the info > is in now. Shall we each consult our innermost heart > Trouble there is that, like all Diplomacy players, I have no innermost heart. :-) Still at a loss, and glad my moves for this turn are okay with everyone, meaning I can put off the decision if you can. No matter which way we lean, I would be grateful if you could lobby Turkey against building F SMY, which I imagine is in his plans given my Lepanto-esque opening. So if you could at least talk heavy "armies into Austria" to him, my fleets would feel better about things. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>I got you beat. Two on my person and two in my name (Manus, of course, >being Latin for "hand"). Yeah, I'd been meaning to ask you about that. I was suspecting that your name might be a pseudonym! I'll ask my friend Podus Foot about it. >> I see Manus as sort of semi-committing to the attack on Germany, but quite >> opportunistic enough to jump on England if it looks like he's got a good >> chance to come out ahead. >> >For me, I assume you mean Hohn. Oh yeah, sorry. Ok, so we actually have three options. We could try to stay neutral, or we could go aggressively with AIR or aggressively with TIR. I guess I'm leaning *away* from the neutral option. But that's the one you are going with, right? So I guess it's up to me. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> >I got you beat. Two on my person and two in my name (Manus, of course,
> >being Latin for "hand").
>
> Yeah, I'd been meaning to ask you about that. I was suspecting that your
> name might be a pseudonym! I'll ask my friend Podus Foot about it.
>
ROTFL! The story is just that my dad, James, thought "Manus" would be a good
name. Turned out (to his pleasant surprise) that it's an old Irish name
anyway. Strangeness in naming must run in the family. My son is
McManus Jameson Hand ("son of Manus, son of James Hand").
> Ok, so we actually have three options. We could try to stay neutral, or we
> could go aggressively with AIR or aggressively with TIR.
>
That's about the size of it.
> I guess I'm leaning *away* from the neutral option. But that's the one you
> are going with, right? So I guess it's up to me.
>
Well, I guess you could put it that way. I'm as gung ho for one as the
other, and at the moment, my moves are set for this phase and will work
whichever way we choose, so I have the luxury you may not have of being
able to wait another turn to see where the pieces land.
Manus
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Hi there. I hope you weren't thinking I'd just stopped talking (even though in a sense I had). I was thinking it all over, and also I was trying to get a sense of what Italy plans to do. His coming move will be noncommital, but I believe he intends to carry through a Lepanto opening. Therefore, I am prepared to make the bold move you suggested, viz., Rum-Bla, Ukr-Rum, Sev-Arm. My alternative was Rum-Bla, Sev-Rum, Ukr S Sev-Rum. This has the advantage of keeping Turkey in the dark about my plans. I liked that. But I would have to tip my hand in the Winter anyway, by building A Sev. Steve would know that if I were going to attack Austria I would build A War. Carrying on a deception by building A War then attacking Turkey anyway would be rather silly. I was, as you know, also concerned that you might have a big plan with Turkey as well as with me, and that you might decide there was more in it for you if you got to build up a big land force and move into Moscow and Warsaw. I'm still a little concerned about that. But I've convinced myself that this would not be a very good plan for you, mainly because you would have to expect Italy to help me. Even with the advantage of a tempo of surprise, I think you would be committing yourself to a very long and painful struggle, one which would allow a couple of northerners to consolidate their positions and basically gain control of the game. So I says to myself, would Dave do something like that? And I says, no, he wouldn't, he thinks like me. So then I felt better. So, in short, I'm on board. Boy is Steve gonna be mad. If you want, we can talk about 1902, since it is pretty obvious what the position will be after the coming move. It looks to me like you get the first bite, and then I get the second, and poor Italy remains rather small, having to wait for the crumby pickings at the end. We could do it differently, but adopting your well-known approach of thinking about what's best for the alliance as a whole, I think that's what we should do. Get you into Bulgaria, then me into Ankara, and leave Italy to manouver in the water and strike in '03. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Steve,
> Well, this is my first e-mail game. I've played via snail mail for many
> years ('tho not many games at a time) mostly in CCC. My rep has been
> established in ftf. I'm the current Avaloncon champ and have won more than
> a dozen other convention Dip tourneys.
>
CCC was the very first szine I joined. I've been playing there for over
5 years now, although I'm sure we've never shared a game. I've never been
able to go to a big tournament, just don't have the time, that's why I run
my own local con in Boston. Diplomatic Incident IX is coming up March 7/8
as a matter of fact to I'll be getting my ftf fix. I've done fairly well
at them, although Pitt Crandlemire ran me a bit ragged at the last one.
I've been trying to feel out what is going on with the rest of the players.
I'm fairly certain that Italy is going to go for the Lepanto, and I really
can't say anything to convince him otherwise without raising a lot of
suspicion. I also think your call on Jamie is right. He seems to be very
cautious and I think he's going to sit on things and see how they play out.
My reading is that he sees AI vs T and FE vs G and figures he can just stay
the odd man out and pick up things on the edges for a while.
Given that, and given that you are the logical power to be the naval half
of an alliance, I'm wondering about this years moves. Attacking Russia
if he's going to sit on the fence while Italy is coming your way doesn't
seem to make a lot of sense. What do you think Jamie would do if he
saw AT working together against Italy? I have to think he'd head our
way, but I think we could cover it for long enough to give us some room.
Let's assume that you make the expected move to Aegean this year. Jamie
will be building in the north as Sev is occuppied, and you can make the
"obvious" build of F Smy while continuing to maintain cordial relations
with him. I build two armies (no surprise) and everything looks fine to
him. Then, in 1902, I suggest to Italy that I support him to Aegean,
guessing that you will go for EAS. Instead, I move to Tyr, support you
to Ionian and move to Gal (Bud is safe as he has a fleet in Rum), you
move to EAS to keep the retreating Italians out, and move Ank to Arm
where it can cut support. You can take Rum guaranteed (Arm - Sev,
Gal - Ukr, Ser s Bul - Rum) and I can take Ven (Gre or Ion can cut any
support from the retreating fleet). With EF and G tied up, taking out
Russia is just a matter of time, and getting the jump on Italy and out
into the Med before France can lock it up seems more important.
What do you think?
-Dave
_________________________________________________________
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Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
So... still there? Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> So... still there? > Yes indeed, just no mail access over the weekend! I received your last note and will be happy to support your army Ukr to Rum. I agree with you on your assessment of Italy, he'll be slow and cautious, but will most likely go with the Lepanto. It's harder to say what Turkey will do. I've been less than encouraging, so as to keep him inclined to move that fleet out to Aegean and not back towards Black. I hope you've maintained good relations with him. No one else seems to have anything of note to say, so guess I'll try to remember how to send in orders and get this thing on the road. Regards, Dave _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, Hard to believe, but we may actually see a move in this game. I believe the deadline is tomorrow night. I was looking things over and I had a thought you might find of interest. I am fairly secure against France, what with Russia and Italy turning elsewhere. So you and I could take some strong action in the north without much worry about losing ground. For instance, if I were to bounce Russia out of Sweden, while you convoyed Yor-Norway, and ordered Nwg-Bar, Russia would be just about helpless to defend the north. France would not have much to do except perhaps enter the Med against Italy, which I would be all for. What do you think? John, Germany
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
Hohn, I have been solicited to join in a strong anti-Russia campaign. If I could be reassured of our commitment to cooperate, I think I would go for it. That is, I would like your explicit commitment that you will not order bur-ruh. As I recall, you have said bur would do "something else." That's plenty of info for me if I just sit tight, but not if I want to join the Anti-R coalition. I am supposed to bounce Russia out of Sweden and then move on Warsaw in the following year. My plan now is to hold in Munich, as we agreed, take Holland (assuming E does not bounce me out) and hold in Denmark. If all goes well on the western front, I will send at least one army, perhaps two, against Russia in the Spring. Have you heard any discussion of this? I'm worried that someone is jerking me around. In any case, how does this fit with your designs? Would you prefer that I go for it or that I don't? John, Germany
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
Correction, the plan is not to hold in Den but den-swe. Just to avoid any confusion. JB
Message from France to France in 'pouchtoo':
John, I promise you I will not move to RUH or to MUN. I have heard some rumors of an anti-Russian campaign, but didn't really credit those rumors until now. If you get two builds, I assume you'll build F KIE and A BER, then? If so, we're totally fine and I look forward to working closely with you. If not, we probably have more to talk about. ;-) Hohn
Message from France to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Jamie, Little time right now, but suffice it to say, I know what you mean and am in complete agreement. Good luck to you on your turn! Hohn
Message from France to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Welcome to the game! My apologies for my silence recently; I've been swamped at work. In any event, I am more than happy to keep communications lines open, and hope we will be able to work together in strong fashion in the near future. Good luck on your moves. Hohn
Message from France to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, I have no real problem with your proposal, save to say that I will probably need to have two fleets at _some_ point (not necessarily immediately), just for my own defensive concerns. Where do you suggest I park them, if only one of SPA/MID is permissible? I'd also like to propose an amendment on your end, that only one fleet be allowed in TYS, TUN or TUS. I find it unlikely that you'd want to park a fleet in TUS in any event, but hey, since we're being anal about things, I figured what the heck. ;-) Sorry for my silence so far, by the way; I've been swamped at work. Take care! Hohn
Message from France to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
John, I promise you I will not move to RUH or to MUN. I have heard some rumors of an anti-Russian campaign, but didn't really credit those rumors until now. If you get two builds, I assume you'll build F KIE and A BER, then? If so, we're totally fine and I look forward to working closely with you. If not, we probably have more to talk about. ;-) Hohn
Message from France to Master in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Master to France in 'pouchtoo': > Talking to yourself? > ========================================================================== > Message from [email protected] as France to France in 'pouchtoo': > John, Gah. I still haven't broken the "Cal is Italy, John is France" habit >from Ghodstoo. Thanks for the catch. Hohn
Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':
>Little time right now, but suffice it to say, I know what you >mean and am in complete agreement. Oh, uh, Good! Good! I'm glad you see it my way! What a relief! (I have no idea what we're talking about. I assume you're responding to something I wrote you. I'll have to check on my work computer tomorrow.) >Good luck to you on your turn! Merci, spacibo. Et toi. Tsar J
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
If all goes well, I would build as you suggest. Should be an interesting turn. John
Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':
Oh, I found the note of mine to which you were obviously responding. I'd forgotten about that particular bit of soul-bearing. Ok, great! I'll sleep much easier now. (I hear you chuckling!) Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Yes indeed, just no mail access over the weekend! Oh yeah, you told me that, sorry. > I received your last >note and will be happy to support your army Ukr to Rum. Roger. > I agree with >you on your assessment of Italy, he'll be slow and cautious, but will >most likely go with the Lepanto. It's harder to say what Turkey will >do. I've been less than encouraging, so as to keep him inclined to >move that fleet out to Aegean and not back towards Black. I hope you've >maintained good relations with him. Pretty good so far, yes. >No one else seems to have anything of note to say, so guess I'll try to >remember how to send in orders and get this thing on the road. You're an old hand. I can see pretty clearly what's going to have to happen next year, I think. It looks pretty cut and dried, unless Italy plans some kind of trick. By the way, if all goes according to plan, I'll build A Stp this winter. But I don't know what actions I'll take in the north, if any. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> I can see pretty clearly what's going to have to happen next year, I think. > It looks pretty cut and dried, unless Italy plans some kind of trick. > By the way, if all goes according to plan, I'll build A Stp this winter. > But I don't know what actions I'll take in the north, if any. > My only real concern is that Turkey might move to Bla and bounce you. I've been deliberately wishy-washy so as not to give an impression of a good ally and hope that along with your own hopefully good relations that we'll be all set. I don't expect too much trickery out of Italy, He is planning on moving to Ven, but as long as he builds a fleet in Naples then I don't see any problems. Regards, Dave
Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, I think I am in good position to move on the plan I suggested to you. But I need your say-so one way or the other. John
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave, Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Between real life and this flu that I've had for the past couple of days, the game has taken a back seat. > >> that's why I run >my own local con in Boston. We were in Mass last summer, will be this summer and hope to move there someday. We love it. I am onboard with everything that you said and I believe that it is exactly that kind of a shock that will carry us far. NO ONE will be expecting "the Spanish Inquisition"--that's what will make it so effective. If you're Catholic, please don't take offense at my Monty Python reference. But, I believe the only way to get ahead in a game like this is to do the unexpected. As I've said before, I don't get hung up on center counts (within reason), so I'm willing to work with you in keeping your own sense of safety. I'm glad you're in the game. Steve
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Tsar Jamie, I dunno if I ever got back to you. I think so. I am so sick right now, I can't remember. Got the flu/fever thing. Go ahead and disparage me all you want in the press! The new Austrian may be a bit more pliable. I don't think he's looking to attack you (yet), but has indicated a willingness to do so next turn. However, he does seem to be leaning toward a move into Gal. Don't know what I can say to talk him out of that without sounding like I'm in your pocket. All the best, Sultan Steve
Build
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Hate to do it when you're feeling sick. I had to choose, and unfortunately you stopped communicating during the crucial four or five days. And this new Archduke was very persuasive. And your old Ank-Bel friend, Hohn, warned me that you'd be a dangerous neighbor to have if I ever got to an endgame. (But that wasn't really an issue for me, to be honest.) See you on the battlefield, Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
King K, Hm, just how committed to this venture is L'Empereur Hohn? My other flank seems to be working out ok. I hate to pull my first stab so early. (No, really, I do!) But I had to choose RA or RT, and I kind of figured that RT would get me in trouble in this game. Boy is Steve gonna be pissed, though. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
Hm, so far not *too* bad. Listen, I'll build A Stp. This ought to give Cal a little to think about without my having to actually open a northern fighting front. And it might influence Hohn. We'll have to start real diplomacy if it becomes clear you'll need more than my flexing one tiny muscle in the general vicinity. I don't know how willing I'll be to do more. I think I'll probably have to. My southern flank is looking good, but that could change rapidly if France decides to play Mediterranean. Interesting situation. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Doge baby, I decided I had to pick my side right away. All cool in the Asian corner, but do you feel the slightest bit uncomfortable about the French moves? I mean, he could build two fleets now and be heading straight for you, letting John and Cal bang heads. Hm. Ok, probably not. Sorry, didn't mean to frighten you.
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Whew. I wonder whether you're as relieved as I am. Italy's playing along, too, and he'd be a fool to swap sides now. I'm hoping you'll build a fleet. I'll build armies in the far north and south. And I'm certain Italy will build F Nap. Any bets on what Turkey will build? If he's consumed with anti-Romanoff rage he'll build F Ank. But that would be a weak build. Hm. I can't guess. I like the way the North is shaping up, too. France isn't committing, and for all he's shown he could be about to launch a Mediterranean campaign! Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Hm, just how committed to this venture is L'Empereur Hohn? I have my doubts. He tried hard to get me to bounce John out of Holland and I refused, citing a desire for a good start in this game. I suspected, based on how Hohn played/reacted last game that this would bother him no end. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if he has reconciled with Germany and I'm about to get hit. John tried really hard to get me to attack YOU this turn (Me: Army to Norway; Him: Fleet to Sweden). I refused by simply ignoring the letter (only got it yesterday), but I'm pretty sure he was trying to deke me north so he and Hohn could attack. It sure feels like Hohn's handiwork... >My other flank seems to be working out ok. I hate to pull my first stab so >early. (No, really, I do!) But I had to choose RA or RT, and I kind of >figured that RT would get me in trouble in this game. > >Boy is Steve gonna be pissed, though. I was waiting for you to do that after his snarky press during the wait for a new player. Surprised he wasn't though... Ah well, all the better for you. Hopefully, you can finish him off quickly as I may need to holler for help! King Kal
Message from England to France in 'pouchtoo':
Hmmm, let's see now. First, John tries to get me to drop the attack on you that he has so stridently urged on me and asks me to move north in force against the Russian... And then you come up with this Freudian (?) slip: "France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Turkish Army Ankara -> Belgium." Now, I sez to myself, "Self? Doesn't this have all the earmarks of a Hohn-led Franco-German alliance? Given that Hohn didn't like me NOT committing myself to an attack on Holland, isn't an F/G reconciliation the most logical thing for him to do, given the clever yet mistrusting player that he is? And wouldn't it be a subtle move for him to get John to try to maneuver me out of position and make me easy pickings from the south?" And self answers "Yup." Methinx I had better see a couple of light blue armies built this Winter or the alarm bells go off... A "forewarned" King Kal
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Manus! Looks like Turkey may be easy pickings after all. I just wonder if you won't find it completely covered in Russian armies by the time you get there? Should you entertain any thoughts of turning westward towards "certain coasts", I think I can be there to back you up... King Kal
Message from France to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, BUR S ANK-BEL was a _joke_. I thought it had more class than BUR HOLDS, which is boring. You were uncontested. What's the big deal? As for builds, I intend to build A PAR, F MAR. Since we've decided to play the "fence sitting" game I so desperately wanted to avoid, I figured I'd maintain some flexibility while simultaneously refraining >from tipping John off. Then we can hit him with surprise in Spring. I don't know why you're suddenly so nervous; you have your two builds, I did exactly what I said I would, and we're following a strategic course which was dictated by _you_. In fact, I must confess substantial distress at your apparent change of heart. The nervousness I detect is precisely why I wanted our alliance against John open and declared, last turn. I remain committed to the alliance. However, in light of your apparent second thoughts, I must request that _you_ build F EDI, and an army in either LVP or LON. A fleet in LON or LVP would make me extremely nervous right now, and I'd have to move defensively. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks. Hohn
Message from France to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, Pursuant to our treaty, I request permission to build F MAR. I will park my two fleets in SPA(sc) and POR, I suspect. The problem is, I'm stuck with respect to builds. Two armies will antagonize John, badly and too early. I don't want to do that right now. A fleet in BRE will antagonize Cal, badly. Thus, my quandary. I hope you know that I realize it is folly for France to attack Italy at this stage in the game, especially with my fleet in POR as it is. Please let me know if you will allow the build. I would greatly appreciate it, and to demonstrate my gratitude, I am still willing to support you into MUN, should you so desire it. Hohn
Message from England to France in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as France to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Cal, > >BUR S ANK-BEL was a _joke_. I thought it had more class than BUR >HOLDS, which is boring. > >You were uncontested. What's the big deal? > >As for builds, I intend to build A PAR, F MAR. Since we've decided to >play the "fence sitting" game I so desperately wanted to avoid, I >figured I'd maintain some flexibility while simultaneously refraining >from tipping John off. Then we can hit him with surprise in Spring. > >I don't know why you're suddenly so nervous; you have your two builds, >I did exactly what I said I would, and we're following a strategic >course which was dictated by _you_. In fact, I must confess >substantial distress at your apparent change of heart. The >nervousness I detect is precisely why I wanted our alliance against >John open and declared, last turn. > >I remain committed to the alliance. However, in light of your >apparent second thoughts, I must request that _you_ build F EDI, and >an army in either LVP or LON. A fleet in LON or LVP would make me >extremely nervous right now, and I'd have to move defensively. Wish I had more time to discuss this, but I have tyo head off to work. In short, I remain committed to the alliance (ie no second thoughts) and I agree that the season played out exactly as I requested. Full marks to you for that. It was just that John's request to move north didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense given the opening tiff with you in Burgandy and, had I been in your position, it's what I might have tried if I decided to go against England. As for the builds, I have no problem with a Fleet in Edi. If I change my mind, I promise I will discuss it over with you first. Fair enough? Hurriedly yours, King Kal
Message from Italy to France and Turkey in
'pouchtoo': For the record, my moves were discussed with Turkey beforehand. Turkey knew exactly what the Italian moves would be, and I am of the opinion that they do no harm to Italo-Turkish relations. Manus
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Doge baby, > Tsar-ee-o! > I decided I had to pick my side right away. > Yeah? Which one you choose? :-) > All cool in the Asian corner, but do you feel the slightest bit > uncomfortable about the French moves? I mean, he could build two fleets now > and be heading straight for you, letting John and Cal bang heads. Hm. Ok, > probably not. Sorry, didn't mean to frighten you. > Well, given that he already asked Turkey if he wants any help against an apparent A/I/R alliance, yeah, I guess I'm a bit worried about Hohn.
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Your Tsarness, It would seem that treachery is a specialty of the house. Ah, well. Another disadvantage of e-mail...in an ftf game, I would have picked up = on your dastardly designs. Well, I've certainly had fun. See ya 'round--tho' not if your lucky. I'll do what I can to give you as little as possible. I doubt that = you'd have much of interest to say, so you needn't bother. As for the persuasiveness of the new archduke, well let's just say your = credibility is not getting any better. I think your rousing good start = may get you a little unwanted attention. Worst wishes, Steve
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave, Well, Jamie certainly was decisive! Are you guys neighbors or = something? How did Gal stay open? I feel as though I'm in a very bad "Twilight = Zone" episode. Maybe you've seen it...where a once competent player is = slaughtered in front of the entire world. Obviously, at this point, I go to a very defensive game. If you want anything, you got it. If, on the other hand, you don't care how big = Russia gets, that's okay too, just don't lie to me. Please. Steve
Message from Turkey to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, You wrote: > >For the record, my moves were discussed with Turkey beforehand. Turkey >knew exactly what the Italian moves would be, and I am of the opinion >that they do no harm to Italo-Turkish relations. I concur. And, I can promise you that I will not challenge you for supremacy in the Med (duh!). Jamie really took care of that, didn't he? My position looks to be pretty hopeless. England won't be much of a distraction, Germany's of no value, Austria may be Russia's #1 guy, so that leaves you. I may be reading the board wrong (done it before), but I believe Dave's going to go after you sooner rather than later. You ought to at least consider building an army. It'll be pretty ugly if Austria moves to Tyl this turn. With no friction in Gal, he's got armies to burn. I'd love to support you into Greece. I'll be the best puppet you ever had Regards, Steve
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave, my man, Why me? What did I do? You go to work everyday, try to raise your kids = right and what kind of thanks do you get? My son's in the Marines man! = Come on! Where is the love? Okay, lost it for a minute there. Please let me know what I can do to = stave off this holocaust. Thanks, Your humble servant, steve ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BD46E9.F9C36B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablesignon tpouchtoo = jcalvinpress to aDave, my man,Why me? What did I do? = You go to=20 work everyday, try to raise your kids right and what kind of thanks do = you=20 get? My son's in the Marines man! Come on! Where is = the=20 love?Okay, lost it for a minute = there. Please=20 let me know what I can do to stave off this holocaust.Thanks,Your humble servant,=20 steve------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BD46E9.F9C36B60--
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Well, given that he already asked Turkey if he wants any help against an >apparent A/I/R alliance, yeah, I guess I'm a bit worried about Hohn. That's just smoke. Sound and fury. I think you ought to move the army to Tyrolia. I don't know what's going to happen up there, but I think you're going to want to be able to have some effect. It could help keep Austria honest, too. I had this thought last night, that I should build two fleets, because Russia never does that. Then I thought a little more and remembered why Russia never does that. Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>John tried really hard to get me to attack YOU this turn (Me: Army to >Norway; Him: Fleet to Sweden). I refused by simply ignoring the letter >(only got it yesterday), but I'm pretty sure he was trying to deke me north >so he and Hohn could attack. It sure feels like Hohn's handiwork... I agree he was probably trying to deke you north (great expression), but I have no guess as to whether it was Hohn's handiwork. >Hopefully, you can finish him off quickly as I may need to holler for help! Yeah. I don't see how I could be too much help, though. Maybe in 1903 I could. I've suggested to Manus that his extra army belongs in Tyrolia. If there's really an F/G alliance that won't be too helpful to you, but every little thing counts. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> >Well, given that he already asked Turkey if he wants any help against an > >apparent A/I/R alliance, yeah, I guess I'm a bit worried about Hohn. > > That's just smoke. Sound and fury. > That's what I thought too. Hard on that, though, came a request (per my agreement with him) for permission to build F Mar.... Haven't answered him yet. > I think you ought to move the army to Tyrolia. I don't know what's going to > happen up there, but I think you're going to want to be able to have some > effect. It could help keep Austria honest, too. > I will discuss it with Dave, but he was against the idea last time I mentioned it. Manus
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
The plot was called off at the last minute, as you can see. So I had to leave Russia alone. I hope I don't regret this down the road. What next? John
Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
Yeah, I knew I was suggesting a big step a little too late in the process. And it'd be hard for you to forego Belgium and two builds. So what next? John
Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':
Interesting situation. It's a very balanced game. Sure, Turkey is looking pretty awful, but besides him everyone has chances. Manus got just one build but has no enemies. (That I know of! You might have a different idea!) I have six units but a growing and dangerous Austria. Ideally, I'd like to take my gains in the south and stay out of the northern mess for at least another year. But various things you might do would make that difficult. I don't expect you're going to tell me your plan. Let's see, hmmm. Do you have any advice for me? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hm, Hohn asked for permission for F Mar, did he? That's very useful information, thanks. (It might very well mean he's decided to go after England first after all. That's my bet, in fact. Three to one odds.) Let's try to make a definite plan with Dave about how to execute Turkey. What I don't want to see is a situation in which it just so happens that the most efficient way to dispatch the Ottoman's is for Austria to keep gobbling up the centers. Maybe you could get Greece when Dave takes Bulgaria. I'd feel much better about that. I'll be quite worried if he finishes '02 with six units and you with four. Ciao, Doge baby Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Hello, and welcome to Winter! I am writing for two reasons. First, I want to re-open discussions on me moving to Tyrolia. France reiterated his offer of support into Munich, and if France does start treating me poorly, it would be nice to extend my front against him north, to own something along the Maginot line. I have nothing against Germany, though, so I am very undecided about everything. Second, how would you feel about me taking Greece as you slide out? I would frankly feel better if I was involved in this kind of way (not that I expect any coming disparity in our sizes should have any bad effect on our relationship or anything). I also recall your offer of a loan of Trieste. If I go to Tyrolia and take Greece from you, I can virtually guarantee that Turkey will confide in me (and I, of course, confide in you). If we want to extend that situation (and if there are sufficient units), you could wrest Greece back from me (how sad that I retreat to AEG!) while I (if I can't decide about Munich, or if German survival is something we wish to promote) steal Trieste, making us look for all the world like we're at each other's throats. I guess I see my position at the moment as the possible inside man with Turkey. He has already sent me private press that makes it certain I can indeed occupy that role. Not to worry -- I am keeping an eye on France........ Manus
Message from France to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
John, > The plot was called off at the last minute, as you can see. So I > had to leave Russia alone. I hope I don't regret this down the > road. That's fine. As you can see, I did what I said I would do anyway. For now, let's stick with the plan we'd talked about: you build F KIE A BER, and I build A PAR F ???. Once we establish those builds, we can move on from there. Just so we're clear, my understanding of our agreement is that if you build an army in KIE, or if I build two armies, we're at war. Obviously, I hope that won't be the case. Thoughts? Hohn
Message from France to England in 'pouchtoo':
Cal, > Wish I had more time to discuss this, but I have tyo head off to work. > In short, I remain committed to the alliance (ie no second thoughts) and I > agree that the season played out exactly as I requested. Full marks to you > for that. It was just that John's request to move north didn't seem to make > a whole lot of sense given the opening tiff with you in Burgandy and, had I > been in your position, it's what I might have tried if I decided to go > against England. > As for the builds, I have no problem with a Fleet in Edi. If I change my > mind, I promise I will discuss it over with you first. Fair enough? All sounds good. Luck to us! Hohn
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
Hohn, You said that if I build A Kie, we are at war. But tell me, are you totally comfortable with that English army in Belgium? If so, then what should I think? John
Message from France to France in 'pouchtoo':
John, > You said that if I build A Kie, we are at war. But tell me, are you > totally comfortable with that English army in Belgium? If so, then > what should I think? I'm _not_ totally comfortable with it. But I also know that between us, we can boot it out whenever we want. And if we _do_ want to boot it out, that would make the build of F KIE all the more critical, no? Hohn
Message from France to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
John, > You said that if I build A Kie, we are at war. But tell me, are you > totally comfortable with that English army in Belgium? If so, then > what should I think? I'm _not_ totally comfortable with it. But I also know that between us, we can boot it out whenever we want. And if we _do_ want to boot it out, that would make the build of F KIE all the more critical, no? Hohn
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
I'm glad to hear you find the English army at least somewhat objectionable. I think it needs to take a bath. How about you?
Message from Germany to France in 'pouchtoo':
Y'know, too, Hohn, booting the English army out of Belgium would be a fun way to confound this confounded rating system! Given my low standing, I'd sure enjoy that. John
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Hm, Hohn asked for permission for F Mar, did he? > He did. I'm inclined to acquiesce, though I will need to keep a close eye on things. > That's very useful information, thanks. (It might very well mean he's > decided to go after England first after all. That's my bet, in fact. Three > to one odds.) > Yeah, it sure looks like it. > Let's try to make a definite plan with Dave about how to execute Turkey. > Agreed. > What I don't want to see is a situation in which it just so happens that > the most efficient way to dispatch the Ottoman's is for Austria to keep > gobbling up the centers. Maybe you could get Greece when Dave takes > Bulgaria. I'd feel much better about that. I'll be quite worried if he > finishes '02 with six units and you with four. > You and me both. I have already written Dave mentioning the "I take Greece as you slide out" and pushing the fact that I can use this to perhaps prove anti-A intentions to Turkey. If you could independently broach the same subject (an Italian Greece), that would be good. Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >I agree he was probably trying to deke you north (great expression), but I >have no guess as to whether it was Hohn's handiwork. Deke is like, a hockey expression, eh? d:) >I don't see how I could be too much help, though. Maybe in 1903 I could. Things will have broken one way or the other by then, I think. I THINK I'm still in the position of being able to pick between Hohn & John, but the builds will tell. Given a choice, I'd sooner attack France as that would set Germany up as a victim of choice for you and to combine on, but we'll see how it shakes out. As I said, I should still have options. >I've suggested to Manus that his extra army belongs in Tyrolia. If there's >really an F/G alliance that won't be too helpful to you, but every little >thing counts. Now there's a sweet thought... heh heh King Kal
Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Yeah, I knew I was suggesting a big step a little too late in the >process. And it'd be hard for you to forego Belgium and two builds. Yeah. >So what next? Next, I guess we wait to see what the builds are this Fall. Can I count on you to stick to armies? King Kal
Message from England to France in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as France to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Cal, > >> Wish I had more time to discuss this, but I have to head off to work. >> In short, I remain committed to the alliance (ie no second thoughts) and I >> agree that the season played out exactly as I requested. Full marks to you >> for that. It was just that John's request to move north didn't seem to make >> a whole lot of sense given the opening tiff with you in Burgandy and, had I >> been in your position, it's what I might have tried if I decided to go >> against England. >> As for the builds, I have no problem with a Fleet in Edi. If I change my >> mind, I promise I will discuss it over with you first. Fair enough? > >All sounds good. Luck to us! Agreed. d:}) How do you figure Italy will react to the fleet in Marseilles? Or are you planning on a southern move? Ciao 4 now King Kal
Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Next, I guess we wait to see what the builds are this Fall. Can I count on > you to stick to armies? That's a very interesting question. France says if I build two armies, we are at war. Are you ready to take him on? Because if you want to go north, a fleet would help take Scandinavia, and I would probably not have France to contend with, because my build would indicate peaceful intentions toward him. By the same token, if you are not ready to take on France, then if I build two armies, I'll be facing him anyway. So again, building a fleet is the wise course, so I have some chance of not facing France's attack. I also understand that a German fleet looks quite dangerous to England. So if I build one, perhaps you and I would be at war. So no matter what I do, I antagonize you or France. And my actions are seen as a blatant threat to one or the other of you, which would make it much easier for the two of you to ally against me. No one said playing Germany would be easy, I guess. How about this: if you build F Liverpool, I'll build two armies, and then we all know what's up. Kaiser John
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Whew. > >I wonder whether you're as relieved as I am. > Ayup. My biggest concern was not that you wouldn't do what you said, but that Turkey would move Con - Bla. That would have really messed things up. >Italy's playing along, too, and he'd be a fool to swap sides now. > Well .... more on that later. >I'm hoping you'll build a fleet. > Okay, it's later (<:. I'm getting some pretty weird signals from Italy. Not having played with Manus before I don't know if this is just his style or what, but his proposals this turn included his moving to Tyrolia, then attacking Munich with French support (this has apparently been offerred). Then there were the ideas of his sliding into Trieste and/or Greece in order that we would appear to be at odds so he could be the "inside man" in regards to Turkey. Seems to me that with the three of us working together, there's no need for any such shenanigans, we can just take out Turkey by brute force. There's no way he's going to build a fleet in Smy, so we should be able to force Aegean. My only concern now is that I'm not certain I want to see Italy in both Ionian and Aegean. Makes me worry about Greece! I've let him know that I'd like to take a much straighter line, maybe you can work on him a bit and stress the dangers of an E/F. Anyway, I don't think that a fleet build this year would be a good idea. First, I want the army in case of Italian treachery, and secondly it might just boost him over the edge if he is considering turning on me. >'ll build armies in the far north and south. And I'm certain Italy will >build F Nap. Any bets on what Turkey will build? If he's consumed with >anti-Romanoff rage he'll build F Ank. But that would be a weak build. Hm. I >can't guess. > I really can't see a fleet build with what he's facing. My best guess might be an army in Ank. He can use fleet Aegean to cover Smyrna and work on breaking up the AIR. >I like the way the North is shaping up, too. France isn't committing, and >for all he's shown he could be about to launch a Mediterranean campaign! > Yes, noticed his sit back approach. On the other hand, there is some committment in his not contesting Belgium. It'll be interesting to see what happens this spring. How do you think we should go about the Turkish attack? If you are going to build an army in Sev, then one idea is for you to move Arm - Syr, Sev - Arm. That does leave you very wide open in the middle though. Given their non-committal moves, do you think there is a chance we'll be facing a western triple? I'd lobby hard for a German fleet build in Kiel if I were you. Even then, a slide from Munich to Sil would be rather threatening. Just something to keep an eye on. If I can trust Italy, then it would seem the obvious attack is Ser - Bul, Rum s Ser - Bul, Bla - Con, Ion - Aeg, Gre s Ion - Aeg. That would guarantee the destruction of Bul. Arm can go just about anywhere. Syr if you want to commit Sev to the Turkish war, otherwise probably Smyrna. With my army Bul in the fall we should be able to guarantee that you take a center. Italy is sounding rather wishy washy to me, so I'd really like to Blitzkrieg Turkey here and cement a solid alliance between you and I. Any suggestions for the north? Do you think I should move up to Boh? I could potentially support Germany from there, or attack if he heads your way for some reason. Well, that's enough trying to guess what's going to happen for now. I'm looking forward to your ideas on things, particularly your feel on what Italy is going to do. Regards, Dave von BeirMeister.
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Manus, Thanks for the note. I still don't have a problem with you moving to Tyrolia, assuming of course that you build a fleet in Naples. Another army in Rome would probably start to concern me. I'm still not sure about attacking Munich though, if the E/F does firm up then helping knock down Germany is probably not a good idea. On the other hand if we can form a solid AIR, then we may just want to go for whatever we can get. I still think that a slide into Pie might be a better move for the fall. As far as sliding into Greece goes, it seems to me that that would be rather counter-productive. First of all, I'm not going to be able to move out on my own, there is a Turkish fleet in Aegean! I'd much rather have us go for a classic Lepanto attack on Turkey. A fleet build in Smy is highly unlikely, it would leave Ank wide open, so we should have no problem supporting you into Aegean. With the E/F threatening, the best thing for us is to quickly eliminate Turkey so we can turn to the west. I'd like to see you involved in that attack for a number of reasons. First of all, it is a source of centers for you and we need you to build more fleets to keep France at bay. Secondly, I'd like to get your army ashore there so that when Turkey is gone we have more force in place to keep Russia from getting ambitious. While your offerring of being the inside man versus Turkey would be useful in many circumstances, in this case I think we can just take the brute force approach with Russia working with us for the moment. Subterfuge is fun, but passing over two centers when it's not needed reminds me a bit of what we call a practice finesse in bridge. I think in this game of sharks that there's a lot of incentive for us to have a firm alliance. A good AI is one of the best setups there is, but it's strength is in it's position and we just need to have solid tactics and stick by each other, not try and get too tricky. Hope you're amenable to a more straight forward approach. Look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Dave
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
I know the word 'deke', but you don't see it often in Diplomacy! > I THINK I'm >still in the position of being able to pick between Hohn & John, but the >builds will tell. You didn't hear this from me, but.... The word on the street is that France will build two fleets. So I wouldn't count on being able to choose your ally. > Given a choice, I'd sooner attack France as that would >set Germany up as a victim of choice for you and to combine on, but we'll >see how it shakes out. As I said, I should still have options. Hm, but I think you'd also be in pretty good shape if Germany were the first out. Although you and I wouldn't be able to combine against France, I could probably arrange things so that Italy was available at the right moment, if you see what I mean. It's all the same to me, frankly. I think I have to concentrate on Austria, (a) keep him on the 'right side', and (b) watch to make sure he doesn't get too big for me to handle. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Steve, Sorry about that. I really was being honest about my intentions at the beginning. Then Jamie rather dramatically jumped off the fence and that changed things a bit. With him willing to commit so completely, the difficulties of an A/T became a bit harder to ignore. That doesn't mean that I'm committed to seeing you wiped out, just that I couldn't see passing up the opportunity to make sure Russia was pointed elsewhere. I'm always open to ideas so let's keep talking. Regards, Dave _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
My read of Italy was not the same as yours, but I'll have to reconsider, maybe you're correct. The Ven-Tyo move I suggested to him myself. My apologies if it's given you a headache. I did not suggest that Manus take Munich, though. My thinking was that Italian influence should be used to 'stabilize' the north, preventing any two-on-one coaltion from succeeding too quickly in eliminating the lone defender. Of course, my small northern contingent could be coordinated. So, for instance, if Germany is the odd man out, presumably two Russian units plus one Italian unit plus five German units can hold out against whatever force E/F could put together. Or, if Hohn switches sides, some harassment of Germany, just a little, would make an invasion of England very difficult. But if you don't want the army in Tyrolia, that's cool. Italy's suggestion about taking Greece or Tri is his own, but he did mention it to me. My understanding was that he felt that you were going to be getting something from Turkey right away and Italy wouldn't, so he'd take something from you to equalize your alliance at 5-5, rather than 6-4. My conclusions: 1) I didn't think these two suggestions were especially suspicious or threatening; 2) It's completely up to you whether to go along, I'm not *supporting* Italy's requests or anything like that; 3) The point about Italy's being the 'inside man' with Turkey does sound somewhat implausible, and I agree with you that it's totally unnecessary and we should go with the straightforward approach. Next, about your construction plans: >First, I want the army in case of Italian treachery, and >secondly it might just boost him over the edge if he is considering >turning on me. So you're thinking that A Tri is better defensively against Italy, but F Tri is better offensively. Is that right? I'm not sure that's true. I'll tell you why I like the fleet build (just personally, from my own perspective). We'll hobble Turkey this year and finish him in '03. If you have just the one fleet then, you'll have a rather large number of armies awfully near my border. I trust you, but I don't want your temptations to grow too large! I'm not saying, by the way, that the only acceptable option from my perspective is for you to attack Italy after Turkey is on the ropes. You and I could attack Germany together, my fleets your armies. But you wouldn't need a huge land force for that. And ultimately you're going to be fighting Italy or me, and I'd really like to see you with some significant naval power so you'll have a real choice when it comes down to it. You go ahead and allay my worries, then build an army. And by the way, you should voice any similar or parallel concerns you have about my forces. I do plan to build a northern fleet as soon as it's realistic. (The only reason I don't plan to do it now is that I have to side with either England or Germany when I build a fleet, and I don't want to do that this season.) On the Turkish attack: I see it about the same way you do. I think I like the really straightforward approach, where I cut Con S Bul and you take Bul, then you help me into Ank in the Fall. That's a sure two centers between us, and it's tremendously unlikely that we could do better than that. And destroying the A Bul also looks to be the best approach. But let me do a little analysis and get back to you. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Quickly (sorry, I am just a bit busy here at work at the moment), I believe I have no problem with your plan for a straightforward approach. More later, Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
You keep likening me to that #!*^% in the White House and our alliance is over :-) Manus
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
We could just do it this way: Bla S Arm-Ank Rum S Ser-Bul Gre S Ion-Aeg So either Bul falls or Ank does, and we get the other in the Fall. I do think I'll leave my A Sev back, because of that 'weak in the middle' problem. It's not that I think there's an FEG, but I do think we might see F vs. E and then Germany might decide it's a good time to march east while his other neighbors are occupied. Probably not, but what a disaster if he did and I had nothing to cover Warsaw. On a similar note, I'm thinking maybe I'll build in Moscow rather than Stp. The mere possibility of Mos-Stp *should* keep England from trying to slip into Stp, and also the possibility of Mos-War *ought* to keep Germany from trying anything cute. Back to the main issue: >If I can trust Italy, then it would seem the obvious attack is >Ser - Bul, Rum s Ser - Bul, Bla - Con, Ion - Aeg, Gre s Ion - Aeg. Yeah, that's fine too. The only advantage my way has is that if Turkey decided to try to save the A Bul from being destroyed by supporting himself Bul-Con and moving Con-Smy, we might just possibly get both Ank and Bul. But that's a long shot. >Italy is sounding rather wishy washy to me, so I'd really like >to Blitzkrieg Turkey here and cement a solid alliance between >you and I. I agree. And there's always the chance that France will launch some movement into the Med, leaving us without Italian help. > Any suggestions for the north? Do you think I should >move up to Boh? I could potentially support Germany from there, >or attack if he heads your way for some reason. Huh. That hadn't occurred to me (and I didn't notice that comment when I first read the note). I don't know. I can't see any down side, so I guess you may as well do it. Your call. Tsar J
Message from Italy to France in 'pouchtoo':
Did I respond yet to your request for permission to build F Mar? Manus
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Hello down there. Well I see that Dave is claiming me as part of a tripatrite alliance against you. Hmmm. I freely admit that I am being heavily lobbied to join A/R, but I have made no committments. I just wanted you to know that I will only join their party, and then reluctantly, if it becomes clear that you cannot survive. In the meantime, I will at least be giving Austria something to think about, while gathering >from A/R some intelligence that...well, just might find its way into Turkish hands. Frankly, the Russian attack on you -- especially coupled with the Austrian assistance -- came as a complete (and rather unpleasant) shock to me. I was kept out of all discussions. Russia, up until the last minute, was mailing me about how he could not decide what to do, leaning toward a non-commital move. If I'm going to be dragged into in an A/I/R (no offense), I would like the "I" part of the alliance to mean something and have some hope of survival. How are you doing drumming up support from elsewhere (England, Germany)? Manus
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
> You keep likening me to that #!*^% in the White House and our alliance > is over :-) Yeah, I knew that was a little harsh, but I couldn't let that whole flood of messages go by unanswered (<: . > > Quickly (sorry, I am just a bit busy here at work at the moment), I believe > I have no problem with your plan for a straightforward approach. More later, > Manus > I think that is best as far as the attack goes and would like to just support your fleet to Aegean. However, I understand that without planning any treachary you may be concerned about the imbalance in our relative center count and I don't want to have you uncomfortable. First off, I guarantee you Turkish centers. Secondly, I can send an army to Boh and use that to support you to Munich if you'd like? As far as the builds go, what do you think would be best. Obviously I will build an army in Vie, but what should I build in Tri? When (note, when, not if!) it comes to war with France, having a mixture of fleets can be useful as it allows the use of the "forward retreat". At this point, I'm really interested in maitaining a three way alliance with AIR and I don't want to disturb either of you as I'm concerned about the west. A mass of Austrian armies might concern Jamie unduly, a fleet might concern you, so I'm openly asking for opinions from both of you. What do you think? Regards, Dave
Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England in 'pouchtoo': >> Next, I guess we wait to see what the builds are this Fall. Can I >> count on you to stick to armies? > >That's a very interesting question. France says if I build two >armies, we are at war. Are you ready to take him on? Because if you >want to go north, a fleet would help take Scandinavia, and I would >probably not have France to contend with, because my build would >indicate peaceful intentions toward him. By the same token, if you >are not ready to take on France, then if I build two armies, I'll be >facing him anyway. So again, building a fleet is the wise course, so >I have some chance of not facing France's attack. > >I also understand that a German fleet looks quite dangerous to >England. So if I build one, perhaps you and I would be at war. So >no matter what I do, I antagonize you or France. And my actions are >seen as a blatant threat to one or the other of you, which would make >it much easier for the two of you to ally against me. > >No one said playing Germany would be easy, I guess. > >How about this: if you build F Liverpool, I'll build two armies, and >then we all know what's up. Put up or shut up, eh? :) Well, I had hoped to hide my intentions from Hohn for another season and strike in S02, but I can't afford to take the chance that you decide to work with him. Therefore, I am willing to build F Lpl in return for your promise to build a couple of armies. As you say, then we'll "all know what's up". As I said last turn, I have decided to throw my lot in with you and let things lie where they fall. I certainly don't want to get into the war that would follow if you were to build a fleet(s). We'll see if that works out in my favour or not but the decision is made. At least I've been willing to put my cards on the table. Fair enough? As for the northern sphere, I agree that we will have to deal with Russia as soon as France has been reduced or eliminated. Gentle Tsar Jamie is in FAR too good a position now to be ignored for more than a year or two. I just prefer to deal with the West first. Actually, that's one of the reasons why I decided to work with you instead of Hohn as you would be a much more effective partner in the inevitable fight against Russia. That's one of the virtues of the E/G alliance. So, what do you think? I'm in this for better or worse. Wot say you? King Kal
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >You didn't hear this from me, but.... >The word on the street is that France will build two fleets. >So I wouldn't count on being able to choose your ally. I can't say as I'm surprised. Hohn is reacting as expected to my refusal to bounce John in Holland. Oh well, it couldn't be avoided. Thanks for the tip. >Hm, but I think you'd also be in pretty good shape if Germany were the >first out. Although you and I wouldn't be able to combine against France, I >could probably arrange things so that Italy was available at the right >moment, if you see what I mean. > >It's all the same to me, frankly. Fair enough. As I said, the builds will make the Western situation a whole lot clearer (I hope). >I think I have to concentrate on Austria, (a) keep him on the 'right side', >and (b) watch to make sure he doesn't get too big for me to handle. Let me know if you need any agitprop spread... [g] King Kal
Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
Two armies it is. BTW, expect A Stp. Your partner in arms, Kaiser John
Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Two armies it is. > >BTW, expect A Stp. > >Your partner in arms, > >Kaiser John Thanx for the tip. King Kal
Message from France to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, > Message from [email protected] as Italy to France in 'pouchtoo': > Did I respond yet to your request for permission to build F Mar? Not yet. :-) Hohn
Message from Turkey to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, Briefly, as I have to go to work. Russia and Austria get at least one each this year. The best you could hope for is Smy. They can deny that to you and stab pretty hard if you build a fleet now. Germany's got his own problems. England may be a distraction to Russia. Later, Steve
Message from Italy to France in 'pouchtoo':
Sorry for the delay. Short of it is okay. Long of it will come tomorrow. (I want to talk until you make me feel good.) Manus
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Jamie, > >My read of Italy was not the same as yours, but I'll have to reconsider, >maybe you're correct. > > ... > >My conclusions: > >1) I didn't think these two suggestions were especially suspicious or >threatening; >2) It's completely up to you whether to go along, I'm not *supporting* >Italy's requests or anything like that; >3) The point about Italy's being the 'inside man' with Turkey does sound >somewhat implausible, and I agree with you that it's totally unnecessary >and we should go with the straightforward approach. I'm really not sure what to think about Italy. Overall I don't think he's necessarily planning a stab. Just Greece or Trieste isn't too bad and I understand his concern about imbalance (actually, since you will be at 7, how about I give him Trieste and take one from you, say Warsaw? (<:. Just kidding about Warsaw, and while it would be nice to have that balance, I think getting you another build for the north is very important), however, he actually suggested doing both! Maybe he was just testing to see how gullible I am? My concern with Tyrolia is where it leaves for me to go? If you and Italy are propping up Germany as you suggested, just what are all those Austrian armies in the middle going to be doing? I don't want us to embark down a road that is going to force us into a fight, we may want to keep the AIR alive a bit longer. That's why I'd rather see Italy getting a center or two from Turkey and concentrating to the east. I have more than enough units to prop up Germany in the center. > >Next, about your construction plans: > >>First, I want the army in case of Italian treachery, and >>secondly it might just boost him over the edge if he is considering >>turning on me. > >So you're thinking that A Tri is better defensively against Italy, but F >Tri is better offensively. Is that right? I'm not sure that's true. > No, actually I think the army is better for both. But I also think the majority of Italy's are programmed to see an Austrian build of a fleet as a threat. Thus I get better defense/offense and keep the Italian happy. I get to eat the cake too! >I'll tell you why I like the fleet build (just personally, from my own >perspective). We'll hobble Turkey this year and finish him in '03. If you >have just the one fleet then, you'll have a rather large number of armies >awfully near my border. I trust you, but I don't want your temptations to >grow too large! > Fully understood. >I'm not saying, by the way, that the only acceptable option from my >perspective is for you to attack Italy after Turkey is on the ropes. You >and I could attack Germany together, my fleets your armies. But you >wouldn't need a huge land force for that. And ultimately you're going to be >fighting Italy or me, and I'd really like to see you with some significant >naval power so you'll have a real choice when it comes down to it. > >You go ahead and allay my worries, then build an army. > Okay, Allay #1: I'm much to unsure of Italy to turn my back on him and attack you. Allay #2: When looking for a long term ally in this game you are displaying the qualities I look for, Italy is displaying the qualities that make me reach for my sword (<:. Allay #3. Were I planning on attacking you, I'd actually do it this turn. I'd have kept my mouth shut about your build in Sev not being so safe and then would have moved into Gal from Vie and gone into Rum with Turkish support. War and Rum would be mine this year. Not going to happen! >And by the way, you should voice any similar or parallel concerns you have >about my forces. I do plan to build a northern fleet as soon as it's >realistic. (The only reason I don't plan to do it now is that I have to >side with either England or Germany when I build a fleet, and I don't want >to do that this season.) > The build in Sev would have concerned me a little as it was a large concentration in the south, however not overly as it would have been useful against Turkey. I think Mos is a much better build though. Your reasoning in the north is excellent and I fully endorse it. >We could just do it this way: >Bla S Arm-Ank >Rum S Ser-Bul >Gre S Ion-Aeg > >So either Bul falls or Ank does, and we get the other in the Fall. > >>If I can trust Italy, then it would seem the obvious attack is >>Ser - Bul, Rum s Ser - Bul, Bla - Con, Ion - Aeg, Gre s Ion - Aeg. > >Yeah, that's fine too. The only advantage my way has is that if Turkey >decided to try to save the A Bul from being destroyed by supporting himself >Bul-Con and moving Con-Smy, we might just possibly get both Ank and Bul. >But that's a long shot. > I think I like the first proposal better (the one that guarantees Rum) as it gives us a chance to give Italy a center if we want, or at least to promise him one (<:. I think we've got the makings of a fine alliance here. We both seem to take the long term approach and I think your natural caution will well temper my natural overexuberance, leading to a very well balanced strategy. If we can keep the western pot boiling for a year or two this could go rather well! Regards, Dave
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>I'm really not sure what to think about Italy. Overall I don't think >he's necessarily planning a stab. Just Greece or Trieste isn't too bad >and I understand his concern about imbalance (actually, since you will >be at 7, how about I give him Trieste and take one from you, say >Warsaw? (<:. Just kidding about Warsaw, Ha ha ha! > and while it would be nice to >have that balance, I think getting you another build for the north is >very important), Right. This is what I hate about playing Russia. You *have* to grow faster than your allies, because you are always playing in two separate spheres. But this always makes allies nervous, reasonably so. That's a reason for concentrating on one sphere, you (I) can do ok without getting too huge to be trusted. > however, he actually suggested doing both! Maybe he >was just testing to see how gullible I am? Are you sure he suggested that? It's crazy. >My concern with Tyrolia is where it leaves for me to go? Yes, that's a point. Well, you could go to Boh, as you suggested earlier. Then you could order Tri-Vie, Boh-Vie and protect against an Italian stab, too. >Okay, Allay #1: I'm much to unsure of Italy to turn my back on him and >attack you. I like that one. > Allay #2: When looking for a long term ally in this game >you are displaying the qualities I look for, Italy is displaying the >qualities that make me reach for my sword (<:. Ok, I guess I can believe that. > Allay #3. Were I >planning on attacking you, I'd actually do it this turn. I'd have >kept my mouth shut about your build in Sev not being so safe and then >would have moved into Gal from Vie and gone into Rum with Turkish >support. War and Rum would be mine this year. Not going to happen! I didn't like that Allay so much. :) I did notice that, of course, and I knew you would. But ya gotta trust somebody. >The build in Sev would have concerned me a little as it was a large >concentration in the south, however not overly as it would have been >useful against Turkey. I think Mos is a much better build though. >Your reasoning in the north is excellent and I fully endorse it. Uh. My plan was to build in Mos and Sev. I take it you don't like that? Listen, I pretty much have to build in Sev, I think. The obvious plan is Sev and Stp, but I was thinking Sev and Mos would prevent Germany from thinking east. I would be willing to go back to the Sev and Stp plan if you're concerned. I can still order Stp-Mos in the Spring and be able to cover War if Germany moves Ber-Pru or something ugly like that. But speak up fast, the orders get processed tonight and I currently have B A MOS, B A SEV. (My plan) >>Bla S Arm-Ank >>Rum S Ser-Bul >>Gre S Ion-Aeg (Your plan) >>>Ser - Bul, Rum s Ser - Bul, Bla - Con, Ion - Aeg, Gre s Ion - Aeg. >I think I like the first proposal better (the one that guarantees Rum) >as it gives us a chance to give Italy a center if we want, or at least >to promise him one (<:. (I assume the 'first' plan is yours.) Guarantees Rum, does it? What kind of a slip was that, exactly?? Ok, I'll pretend you said 'Bul'. But let's see. If we just get you into Bul, can we really guarantee Italy a center? I guess we can if Turkey hasn't built F Ank. We could do Bla S Aeg-Con, Bul S Aeg-Con, Arm-Ank. But if he has F Ank that's no good. We'd still have a perfectly good move (Bul S Aeg-Con, Bla S Arm-Ank) but no guarantee for Italy. That's ok, I'm not sure we want to guarantee anything for Italy. And if we are *able* to do it, he might insist. Whereas if we aren't able, he can't insist. Well, it's no big deal, I think your plan is just as good for me anyway, except if Turkey makes a bad move, which would be a silly thing to plan for. >I think we've got the makings of a fine alliance here. We both seem to >take the long term approach and I think your natural caution will well >temper my natural overexuberance, leading to a very well balanced >strategy. If we can keep the western pot boiling for a year or two >this could go rather well! Righto. My gut instinct is that it will be boiling. I think Hohn is working as hard as he can to get it settled, but neither Cal nor John can be easily manipulated. What I like about the northern situation is that Hohn isn't likely to settle for any arrangement that doesn't leave him in the lead, and the others aren't likely to accept any deal with Hohn that doesn't provide at least equality. Those factors should lead to a slowish progression. If it comes up E/G vs F, that will be a long hard road for the AngloSaxons and we ought to be able to take care of business before anyone comes crashing into our sphere. Hey, has Steve been talking to you? Understandably he told me not to bother writing to him, and I haven't, but he doesn't seem like the sort to roll over. If not to you, is he talking to Manus? Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Doge, Has Steve been writing to you? If not, I bet he's lobbying Dave pretty hard. He isn't the roll-over-and-die type, do you think? Also: Dave thinks (or at least says he thinks) that you are asking him for both Gre and Tri. Say it ain't so! It's making him nervous (or at least he says so). He offerred to move Vie-Boh if Germany needs some 'balancing'. I guess that's good. And Dave and I have been putting together a plan to annihilate Turkey. It's an obvious one. I'd help him into Bul from Ser in the Spring, and he'd help me into Ank by Bul-Con cutting support, in the Fall. And he'd support Ion-Aeg in the Spring too. The Ser-Bul move destroys the Turkish A Bul, and we leave Turkey with two units next year. Your center doesn't come until then. As I said, I prefer to see you get one, but I don't see how to do it. Unless it's Gre or Tri. We're negotiating my build. I'd like to build in Sev and Mos. He thinks this might be too much concentration too close to him. But I think it's a good move. I'm looking at the board and seeing my middle very wide open to a possible German drang nach osten, so I thought A Mos would make that less attractive to John. And since I have no particular desire to go right for Norway, it's no disadvantage over A Stp since I can just order Mos-Stp in the Spring if John still seems friendly. Dave will build two armies, as you probably know. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
I hope you will build F Kie. You hope I won't build A War (or F Stp[sc]). Tsar J p.s. I hate it when you don't talk to me.
Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':
I don't know what to build. Well, yes I do, but I don't know where. I think I'm going to do something that looks really dumb. If Steve sends you anything, please tell me. I hate these long diplomacy periods. The waiting kills me. I am especially looking forward to seeing your adjustments, by the way. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Manus, Here's something I just noticed. I had thought the movement deadlines were going to be a week after the previous phase, but in fact Rick has set things up so that the adjustments fall on Fridays and the movement phase always falls on Tuesday. So we aren't going to have very long to decide on moves after we see the builds. So start thinking, and especially if you have an alternative plan to the one I outlined a short while ago, tell me pretty fast. I mean, soon, you don't have to tell me fast, I get confused when you do that. -Jamie
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave: Jamie tells me that you understood I was asking for both Greece and Trieste. I have no time to write right now, but needed to whip something to you to say that this is not the case! No indeed! Don't nervous because of little old me; I have no delusions of grandeur nor am I subject (yet?) to fits of megalomania of that sort! Gotta run.... Manus
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Manus, Sorry if I misread it. Unfortunately I've already tossed the message. I read it as you'd like one or the other and if we did both that would really work well to convince Turkey we were at odds. Did seem just a touch meglomanic to me (<:. No harm done though. I'm still firm on wanting to keep AIR together and wipe out Turkey. Then I think we coordinate to keep the west boiling and maybe even hit them with a three prong attack. Any thoughts on that Trieste build? -Dave > Dave: > > Jamie tells me that you understood I was asking for both Greece and Trieste. > I have no time to write right now, but needed to whip something to you to > say that this is not the case! No indeed! Don't nervous because of little > old me; I have no delusions of grandeur nor am I subject (yet?) to fits of > megalomania of that sort! > > Gotta run.... > > Manus >
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Sorry for the misunderstanding. As for your build, I'd prefer an army, and Jamie says he is under the impression that's what it would be. I'll drop F NAP and head for Tyr, so you can help me into Munich from Boh. At least that's my working plan. Jamie sent me an outline of the Turkish attack, and it sounds good to me as long as I don't get left too far behind. But if we avoid any misunderstandings like I caused, we should all stay happy. No more time to write right now. :-( Manus
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> > Right. This is what I hate about playing Russia. You *have* to grow faster > than your allies, because you are always playing in two separate spheres. > But this always makes allies nervous, reasonably so. That's a reason for > concentrating on one sphere, you (I) can do ok without getting too huge to > be trusted. > That's okay, I understand things like that. As I mentioned at the beginning, I tend to think in terms of the overall alliance and that goes both ways, not just to my advantage! > > however, he actually suggested doing both! Maybe he > >was just testing to see how gullible I am? > > Are you sure he suggested that? It's crazy. > I deleted the mail already. That was the impression I got, but he's assurred my that was not his intention, so we're all okay at this point. > > >The build in Sev would have concerned me a little as it was a large > >concentration in the south, however not overly as it would have been > >useful against Turkey. I think Mos is a much better build though. > >Your reasoning in the north is excellent and I fully endorse it. > > Uh. > My plan was to build in Mos and Sev. > I take it you don't like that? > > Listen, I pretty much have to build in Sev, I think. The obvious plan is > Sev and Stp, but I was thinking Sev and Mos would prevent Germany from > thinking east. I would be willing to go back to the Sev and Stp plan if > you're concerned. I can still order Stp-Mos in the Spring and be able to > cover War if Germany moves Ber-Pru or something ugly like that. But speak > up fast, the orders get processed tonight and I currently have B A MOS, B A > SEV. > No, I was typing too much too fast. I meant to say that the build in Sev DOES (not WOULD) worry me some, for the above reasons, but I'm okay with it as I assume you will be with my army in Trieste. Accomodations must me made (<:. Please go ahead with Sev and Mos. I am going with two armies. Manus has said that he prefers the army build, as do I for previously mentioned reasons. > (I assume the 'first' plan is yours.) > Guarantees Rum, does it? What kind of a slip was that, exactly?? > I really do need to start proofreading my mail! Not freudian, just composing on the fly. > Ok, I'll pretend you said 'Bul'. > > But let's see. If we just get you into Bul, can we really guarantee Italy a > center? I guess we can if Turkey hasn't built F Ank. We could do Bla S > Aeg-Con, Bul S Aeg-Con, Arm-Ank. But if he has F Ank that's no good. We'd > still have a perfectly good move (Bul S Aeg-Con, Bla S Arm-Ank) but no > guarantee for Italy. > > That's ok, I'm not sure we want to guarantee anything for Italy. And if we > are *able* to do it, he might insist. Whereas if we aren't able, he can't > insist. > > Well, it's no big deal, I think your plan is just as good for me anyway, > except if Turkey makes a bad move, which would be a silly thing to plan for. > > We actually don't need to decide this now. Let's wait and see what he builds, then finalize it. > Righto. > My gut instinct is that it will be boiling. I think Hohn is working as hard > as he can to get it settled, but neither Cal nor John can be easily > manipulated. What I like about the northern situation is that Hohn isn't > likely to settle for any arrangement that doesn't leave him in the lead, > and the others aren't likely to accept any deal with Hohn that doesn't > provide at least equality. Those factors should lead to a slowish > progression. If it comes up E/G vs F, that will be a long hard road for the > AngloSaxons and we ought to be able to take care of business before anyone > comes crashing into our sphere. > Agreed. > Hey, has Steve been talking to you? Understandably he told me not to bother > writing to him, and I haven't, but he doesn't seem like the sort to roll > over. If not to you, is he talking to Manus? > He sent me two notes. The first was, let's go get the Russian. The second was, "Hey wait a minute, why aren't you in Gal, what are you doing supporting Russia to Rum." I sent back a note designed to keep the lines open and see if he had anything he wanted to propose. Haven't heard anything back. -Dave
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Building in Mos and Sev: ok, good. >We actually don't need to decide this now. Let's wait and see what he >builds, then finalize it. Ok. However, here's something I just noticed. The movement deadline will be Tuesday night. When Rick said the moves would be a week each, he meant including the minor phases. Movement deadlines will always fall on a Tuesday, adjustments always on a Friday, so we'll really have only a couple of (week)days of diplomacy for Spring movement phases. (For the Fall it will be longer since Retreats are on Thursdays and there won't be an Adjustment phase.) So we should move the negotiation process along. As I said, I don't mind using your plan, it all comes out about the same either way. What could cause trouble is if Italy has an alternative plan. We might be in a rush if he comes up with one, say, late on Monday. (Steve) >He sent me two notes. The first was, let's go get the Russian. The second >was, "Hey wait a minute, why aren't you in Gal, what are you doing supporting >Russia to Rum." I sent back a note designed to keep the lines open and >see if he had anything he wanted to propose. Haven't heard anything back. Aha. So then I suppose he decided that Italy was his only friend, that he wants to tip things in favor of Italy and against us. That doesn't worry me much. So anyway, we seem to be more or less on the same wavelength and ready to proceed. The most interesting thing to me that will emerge from the adjustments is the French builds. But that will only affect my northern plans and I should be able to decide how to react to French builds very quickly. Do svedonya, Tsar J
Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Cal, > >Hard to believe, but we may actually see a move in this game. I believe >the deadline is tomorrow night. > >I was looking things over and I had a thought you might find of >interest. I am fairly secure against France, what with Russia and Italy >turning elsewhere. So you and I could take some strong action in the >north without much worry about losing ground. > >For instance, if I were to bounce Russia out of Sweden, while you >convoyed Yor-Norway, and ordered Nwg-Bar, Russia would be just about >helpless to defend the north. France would not have much to do except >perhaps enter the Med against Italy, which I would be all for. > >What do you think? I saw this too late to do anything about it. I slept all day yesterday thanx to this @%&*@ cold and by the time I got up today, the results were already out. Regardless, I don't think I would have gone along with it. I'm not big on Western Triples (which is what this would have turned into) and I don't think we should let Hohn up off the carpet if we can get him down. I'll write again when I've had a chance to really look at the moves. King Kal
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Ok. > However, here's something I just noticed. The movement deadline will be > Tuesday night. When Rick said the moves would be a week each, he meant > including the minor phases. Movement deadlines will always fall on a > Tuesday, adjustments always on a Friday, so we'll really have only a couple > of (week)days of diplomacy for Spring movement phases. (For the Fall it > will be longer since Retreats are on Thursdays and there won't be an > Adjustment phase.) So we should move the negotiation process along. > > As I said, I don't mind using your plan, it all comes out about the same > either way. What could cause trouble is if Italy has an alternative plan. > We might be in a rush if he comes up with one, say, late on Monday. > The last note I had from him said that he did not think he had any problems with the straightforward approach I was proposing. He has committed to building in Nap and I expect his moves to be Ion - Adr, Nap - Ion, Ven - Tyr. Which way we do the attack should not be affected by that. Right now I think we are planning on: Ser - Bul, Gre s Ion - Aeg Rum s Ser - Bul, Bla - Con, Arm - Ank/Smy If he builds a fleet in Ank, then I think I might favor Arm - Ank, Bla s Arm - Ank as it will have no where to retreat and can be destroyed. If he builds an army there as I expect, then forcing him out has no great benefit, although he does have to cover Smyrna to keep you from sliding in. Maybe there is a benefit to your approach. We can guarantee to take Bul in the Fall no matter what happens in the spring. Let's see, you kick the army out of Ank, if he covered Smy with Aeg, then it is destroyed, else, it falls back to Smy and Aeg retreats to Eas, unless of course he attacks Greece with Bul to cut support. Then, the fall turn goes: Ank - Con, Bla s Ank - Con, Ser - Bul, Rum s Ser - Bul, Ion - Aegean and we've got two centers. Okay, you've (I've) convinced me. Let's go with your plan. I'll think about it on the weekend (maybe, I'll be playing face to face all weekend and may end up brain fried!) and we'll touch base on Monday. Have a good weekend. Auf weider ho:ren Dave
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'pouchtoo':
Sorry -- I'm building F Nap. Don't know what it's going to do yet, and the sad fact is that I haven't had time to even think about this game recently; despite all my short Mouse Trap mails, I've actually been horrible busy at work. :-( Manus