Movement

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

> Austria: Army Venice -> Apulia.
>
Cal, I'm gonna murder you a thousand times!  :-)

Manus (crap.)

Message from England to England in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>> Austria: Army Venice -> Apulia.
>>
>Cal, I'm gonna murder you a thousand times!  :-)
>
>Manus (crap.)

Well, if you recall, that'll be about one murder for every caveat I put on
what I told you... ;)

Kommiseratingly,

King Kal

Message from Italy to England, France and

Germany in 'pouchtoo':

It is amusing to have observers commenting, is it not?

Hohn, feel free to move Spa-Mar, and Cal, feel free to move MAO-Spa/sc.
I'll see you both in the Russian-dominated next world.  :-)

Hard to believe that even when we're making moves in alliance that are
practically scripted for us, the observers still do not see that the
only focus we can afford to have is to quell the Russian expansion and
break A/R.

Amused,
Manus

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

> Austria:  Army Venice -> Apulia.
>
Well, darn.

I'd have used a slightly stronger expletive, but for the possibility
that the press will someday be published.

You know, though....now would be a real nice time to stab Jamie.
He'd never expect it.

I don't have that much worth taking, and you will surely soon
live to regret putting him into the Med.  You better think about
putting him back before it's too late.

Because it'll be too late before too long.  Mark my words.

Manus

Message from Italy to England, France and

Germany in 'pouchtoo':

> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Observer in 'pouchtoo':
>
> My rating: AREF(GI)T
>
YOu and me, Jon.  You and me.  :-)  At least we keep good company.  :-)

Manus

Message from England to France, Germany and Italy in

'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England, France and
>Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>
>It is amusing to have observers commenting, is it not?


Absolutely.  Some of them can be so dead on one turn and then, in the next
turn, the same ones are sooo far off.

>Hohn, feel free to move Spa-Mar, and Cal, feel free to move MAO-Spa/sc.
>I'll see you both in the Russian-dominated next world.  :-)


If it's all the same to you, I'd just as soon not throw up the white flag
just yet, Manus.  France's fleet will be much more useful in the Western Med
than it would be a) taking a centre off you and b) owning a centre he can't
build for.

>Hard to believe that even when we're making moves in alliance that are
>practically scripted for us, the observers still do not see that the
>only focus we can afford to have is to quell the Russian expansion and
>break A/R.


Well, as one observer said, A/R may have trouble surviving the next year.  I
don't know that that's so (ask Manus about the info I've been getting from
them...), but we can always work at it.

More later, when I've had a chance to stare at the board.

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>> Austria: Army Venice -> Apulia.
>>
>Cal, I'm gonna murder you a thousand times!  :-)


Well, that will be about one murder for each caveat I put on my "tip". 

King Kal

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Well, that turn certainly proceeded according to the script, eh?  :)

In fact, although I hadn't expected it at first, I think that THIS could be
the turn we expose the "master plan" to the world.  I need your comments on
the following moves:

Russia:   A Ber-Mun, s by A Sil; A Ukr-Gal; A Smy-Con; F Eas-Aeg.
England:  F Mid-Spasc; A Bur-Mar; A Bel-Hol; F Nwy H.
Germany:  A Ruh & A Kie s A Ber-Mun.
Italy:    A Pie-Tyo; F Tyn-Nap.

Okay, now MY comments.

1) Taking Munich & Constantinople away from Austria is important.  If we
keep him from a build this turn, you will probably have a free shot at
Budapest from Galicia.  A build in Sevastopol in the Fall will allow you to
cover Rumania and start your advance on the Balkans.

2) I THINK I can get Germany to go along with these moves.  He knows he's
pretty much cooked and I'm hoping I can call in one last favour.  Obviously,
a lot depends on his cooperation, so I'll let you know what he says after I
sound him out.

3) Manus, from his quick note to me this morning, is almost ready to throw
in the towel.  I think he'll do the above moves if I can give him the merest
sniff of a A/R breakup.  Probably need your diplomatic help here, my friend.

4) Even without Germany's help, I think this will probably be the last Fall
turn where we have a chance to do any sort of quick and unexpected damage to
Austria.  If he gets a build or two, his homeland will be covered and any
stab will have to be the trench warfare type.  Also, you're going to score
at least one (Den!), maybe two (Con!?) and possibly even three (Mun?) builds
this turn.  What better time?

5) For MY part, I expect to have two or three builds coming.  I'll never
have a better opportunity to build the fleets I'll need (if all works out,
my builds will be F Lpl, F Lon & A Edi - cool for you?  I'll trust you to
NOT build in St Pete's) to consolidate the Med against the red scourge.

6) Shall I mention your commitment to make the first move?  Nah...  ;)

Komments?

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':

Long shot here, but I have a question for you.

If Russia is willing to turn on Austria this turn, would you be willing to
support him into Munich?  I know it wouldn't bode well for your future
prospects to see a strong(er) Russia, but it's the only chance I can see of
breaking up the dynamic duo.

I'm waiting for a reply from Russia at the moment.  I told him that I'd be
sticking by your decision if you're not willing to make the move (assuming
he even goes for it, of course).

I'll understand if you decline.

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

King K.,

I will have to study the situation on Monday.

I must say that your suggestion looks awfully good at first hearing, though.

My main worry is whether Kaiser John really would go along with it. I have
my doubts.

My stab will either be this year or in the Spring of next year. As you say,
if Austria is going to get a build I have to make sure it's a fleet or my
stab will be awful. On the other hand, if he's not going to get a build,
this is the move to stab him.

Crucial turning point coming up. Back to you Monday.

(My computer is 'all fixed', and I even got a nice upgrade for about $50,
but unfortunately Windows now can't find my modem, so I can do any internet
stuff at home :-()

Tsar J

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

Wow, nice move.

We'll make plans on Monday.

Tsar J

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>I will have to study the situation on Monday.
>
>I must say that your suggestion looks awfully good at first hearing,
though.


Glad to hear it. :)

>My main worry is whether Kaiser John really would go along with it. I have
>my doubts.


I figure it's about 50-50.  If he says no, then we'll have to take a close
look at just how many builds Austria is likely to get.  If we can hold it to
zero, this is the time to do the foul deed.  Do you guys have any
arrangements for Con?  IE a mutual bounce?  If not, you'd be okay there and
Munich may even be irrelevent.  He gains Mun and loses Con, ergo no build.
Am I missing anything?

>My stab will either be this year or in the Spring of next year. As you say,
>if Austria is going to get a build I have to make sure it's a fleet or my
>stab will be awful. On the other hand, if he's not going to get a build,
>this is the move to stab him.


Yup.

>Crucial turning point coming up. Back to you Monday.


Waiting with baited breath (just had fish n chips...)

>(My computer is 'all fixed', and I even got a nice upgrade for about $50,
>but unfortunately Windows now can't find my modem, so I can do any internet
>stuff at home :-()


Hmm, I don't work Internet tech support for nothing, y'know.

1) Make sure all other comm programs are shut down.  Hit CTL-ALT-DEL and
shut down everything EXCEPT "Explorer", the main Windows 95 program.  This
is especially true for a program called RNAAPP (although this may take 15-20
minutes to actually release the modem from it's control).

2) Remove any modem initialization strings from the Modem section of Control
Panel.  Click Start/ Settings/ Control Panel/ Modems/ Properties/
Connection/ Advanced/ Extra Settings.  If there is nothing there, type in
"&F" (without the quotes).  If this still doesn't work, let me know the
brand name of your modem and I'll get you a proper initialization string.

3) Remove the modem driver and reinstall.   Do this from the Modem
Properties of Control Panel, similar to #2 above.  Remove the driver by
clicking "Remove" and then reinstall it by pushing "Add".  It helps to have
the original driver disk when you do this.

4) If this still doesn't work, try removing the modem and then having
Windows 95 reinstall it from the Add Hardware section of Control Panel.

5) As a desperate measure, RTFM!

6) If even THAT doesn't work, take it back to the shop and raise pluperfect
hell.

G'luck

Tekno King Kal

Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':

My gut reaction is that my only hope for survival is if we can cut a
deal with Austria, not Russia. Russia will have me for lunch.

But this is not my last word. I'll ponder the situation.

Kaiser

Message from Italy to England, France and

Germany in 'pouchtoo':

> >Hohn, feel free to move Spa-Mar, and Cal, feel free to move MAO-Spa/sc.
> >I'll see you both in the Russian-dominated next world.  :-)
>
> If it's all the same to you, I'd just as soon not throw up the white flag
> just yet, Manus.  France's fleet will be much more useful in the Western Med
> than it would be a) taking a centre off you and b) owning a centre he can't
> build for.
>
I was speaking with tongue FIRMLY in cheek.  We all know that Spa-Mar and
MAO-Spa/sc would give the game to Russia.  All of us except the observers,
I was saying.

My white flag is still packed away.  If I pull it out anytime soon, it will
be to put the torch to it.

Manus

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

> >Cal, I'm gonna murder you a thousand times!  :-)
>
> Well, that will be about one murder for each caveat I put on my "tip". 
>
Yep.  Darn.  Dave played you to play me.

Manus

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

Ok, I've been able to think it through a bit.



(From your second mail to me:)

>I figure it's about 50-50.  If he says no, then we'll have to take a close
>look at just how many builds Austria is likely to get.  If we can hold it to
>zero, this is the time to do the foul deed.

First of all, if you actually ask Germany and he says no, the whole trick
may be spoiled. I mean, he might blab, then I wouldn't get Con or Mun,
Austria would build A Bud, etc. Awful.

However, as you've noted, it might be workable without German help.

> Do you guys have any
>arrangements for Con?  IE a mutual bounce?  If not, you'd be okay there and
>Munich may even be irrelevent.  He gains Mun and loses Con, ergo no build.


Austria can't bounce me in Con, really, because he needs that army to guard
Greece. I suppose he could use the F Aeg, but I presume he is going to take
a try at Ionian. (He was supposed to move Tri-Adr, by the way; this might
conceivably be a trick to have Tri occupied in the Winter? But it's very
unlikely, at this point, that Italy will move to Adr.)
And, as you say, if I take Con, Austria doesn't build.

>Am I missing anything?

As a matter of fact, there is one small issue you've overlooked (see below).

(Now your first mail to me)

>Russia:   A Ber-Mun, s by A Sil; A Ukr-Gal; A Smy-Con; F Eas-Aeg.
>England:  F Mid-Spasc; A Bur-Mar; A Bel-Hol; F Nwy H.
>Germany:  A Ruh & A Kie s A Ber-Mun.
>Italy:    A Pie-Tyo; F Tyn-Nap.

Is that F Mid-Spasc a typo? Or do you know for sure that France will leave?
Seems like you ought to move to Por. Well, I'm sure you won't do anything
silly :).

>
>Okay, now MY comments.
>
>1) Taking Munich & Constantinople away from Austria is important.  If we
>keep him from a build this turn, you will probably have a free shot at
>Budapest from Galicia.  A build in Sevastopol in the Fall will allow you to
>cover Rumania and start your advance on the Balkans.

Agreed. Taking at least one of those is crucial.

>2) I THINK I can get Germany to go along with these moves.  He knows he's
>pretty much cooked and I'm hoping I can call in one last favour.  Obviously,
>a lot depends on his cooperation, so I'll let you know what he says after I
>sound him out.

As I said, my real worry is not that he'd refuse but that he'd tattle.

>3) Manus, from his quick note to me this morning, is almost ready to throw
>in the towel.  I think he'll do the above moves if I can give him the merest
>sniff of a A/R breakup.  Probably need your diplomatic help here, my friend.

Interesting.
Again, I don't want to spread this 'secret' around. Nothing dumber than
telling the whole world you're about to stab someone. Especially if you are!
I suppose I could try to reassure Manus while being very vague about the
date of an A/R breakup.

Here's the small point you seem to have missed. The Italian moves you
suggest are not safe. Austria could take Rome, by Apu S Ven-Rom, Tyo-Apu.

The safe moves for Italy are as follows:

Ion-Nap, TyS S Rom, Rom S Pie-Ven

or else

Pie-Ven, Rom-Ven!, Ion-Apu, TyS-Nap

(so Austria's support is cut no matter which way he tries to take Rome; the
move Rom-Ven is in case Austria tries Ven S Tyo-Pie.)

>4) Even without Germany's help, I think this will probably be the last Fall
>turn where we have a chance to do any sort of quick and unexpected damage to
>Austria.  If he gets a build or two, his homeland will be covered and any
>stab will have to be the trench warfare type.  Also, you're going to score
>at least one (Den!), maybe two (Con!?) and possibly even three (Mun?) builds
>this turn.  What better time?

Right. Except, there may be one more chance. If Austria does get a build, I
feel confident that he'll build F Tri. His army in the Balkans would be
freed up to keep me from waltzing in, but I'd still have a significant
advantage. The problem, I think, would be that I would be building an army
this Winter, and Austria will know that means trouble. (He thinks I'll
build F Stp, of course. I haven't been botching up my diplomacy with him,
you know.) As I hinted, my idea would be to begin my stab in the Spring.
But not in the Winter!

>5) For MY part, I expect to have two or three builds coming.  I'll never
>have a better opportunity to build the fleets I'll need (if all works out,
>my builds will be F Lpl, F Lon & A Edi - cool for you?  I'll trust you to
>NOT build in St Pete's) to consolidate the Med against the red scourge.

Yes, those are the builds for you that I would prefer. And no, I won't
build in Stp! (Even if by some miracle I got four builds, I would waive the
fourth. Of course, I can't get four. Earlier I considered Sev-Rum instead
of Sev-Ukr, in which case I'd have had a chance for a bigger stab; but I
decided it telegraphed the stab too much.)

>6) Shall I mention your commitment to make the first move?  Nah...  ;)

:-)
I will, for sure.

And I do feel that this is very likely the right moment, too. I still have
*some* small doubt, still have *some* feeling that I ought to wait and do a
Spring stab after Austria has built a fleet. I know you probably don't want
another fleet in the Med, but I assure you he would be disbanding fleets in
seasons to come! I'll rethink things a couple of times this week, in any
case.

Tsar J

p.s. Thanks for the modem tips. None of them worked, so I'm afraid I'll
have to build F Stp.

Actually, here's the deal. The computer sometimes thinks that the COMM2
port doesn't work or doesn't exist. (My wife does all this stuff, she's the
computer pro in the family, so try to bear with me.) In the control panel,
the COMM2 port exists and appears to be installed correctly. Johanna says
when she tries the diagnostic, typing "MODE COMM2", it says "ILLEGAL NAME".

I think she's taking it in today, to the place that replaced the
motherboard and did the upgrade. They swear they had the modem working, but
I suspect that's just what they always say, "Sure, we got it to work fine
here."

Jamie

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

So.

I was a little disappointed that your fleet Tri didn't move, but it seems
rather unlikely that Italy would try to move to Adr this season, so I'm not
too worried.

I could conceivably get both Den and Kie, though it's not likely. Hm.
England is going to get three builds. If he builds F Lvp and an army, then
one fleet will come toward me if I build F Stp. And he'll try to make it
difficult for me to take Kie next year. The result would probably be that I
snag Nwy but have to fight to hold it rather than making more progress. If
I wait, I can probably get him to shift those fleets west and southwest a
little, and there's a fair chance he won't build *next* year. And I think
he'd let/help me take Kie.

I dunno. What do you think about having A Mun S GERMAN A Kie, and I go for
Kiel so I get no build?

If I were you I'd go for position rather than try for an Italian center
this year, but if you want to try for it I have no objection. (Just BTF.)

Tsar J

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

Greetings King,

Well, seems things went according to plan, always a surprise!

I do of course still have my concerns about Russia.  While he could not
launch much of a stab this year, only acquiring one center, he could
position well for an attack next year.  I think it would be a big help
to both of us if he did not get a build this year.  Unfortunately, the
German moves did not make this an easy task.  Germany can still defend
his centers against Russia with the following:

Kie - Den, Ska s Kie - Den, Ruh - Kie, Hol s Ruh - Kie

The only danger would be Bal, Ber and Mun all attacking Kie, and I think
I can arrange for that not to happen (<:.

Do you think you can arrange something like this?  Do you feel that you
need to attack Germany this year?  If you attacked Hol, the above would
fail.  You could try to convince Germany to attack Kie from Hol,
but I'm not sure what the rational would be.

I'd really prefer to not see a Russian build.  If there is going to be
one, then I need to know so I can prepare my own defenses better.

Regards,
Kaiser D

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>
> I was a little disappointed that your fleet Tri didn't move, but it seems
> rather unlikely that Italy would try to move to Adr this season, so I'm not
> too worried.
>
I went around and around on how I should launch the attack.  If he'd bounced
me in Apu it would have been a pain.  However, since it worked I think it
was a good move and gives me the best attack.  I don't think he'll go to
Adriatic, he needs to worry about Nap and Rom.

I did have some concern as this has left me even more open to your forces.
Why did the army move from Sev?  I assume it will return there in the Fall?

> I could conceivably get both Den and Kie, though it's not likely. Hm.
> England is going to get three builds. If he builds F Lvp and an army, then
> one fleet will come toward me if I build F Stp. And he'll try to make it
> difficult for me to take Kie next year. The result would probably be that I
> snag Nwy but have to fight to hold it rather than making more progress. If
> I wait, I can probably get him to shift those fleets west and southwest a
> little, and there's a fair chance he won't build *next* year. And I think
> he'd let/help me take Kie.
>
> I dunno. What do you think about having A Mun S GERMAN A Kie, and I go for
> Kiel so I get no build?
>

There are a number of ways that you could get no build, a lot depending on
what England does.  If he and I stay out of it, then Germany can still
protect Kiel and Denmark.  If England tries to grab Hol, then things get
trickier.

Perhaps I can use this to put England more at ease.  Suggesting that he
move so as to deny you the build without making an overtly hostile move.
That would help to convince him that he's not facing an already accomplished
AR.  What do you think?

I can certainly consider supporting Germany.  It might look a bit odd however
if I did that then built a fleet and made no other moves towards you.  I think
Kal would see something fishy in that.

> If I were you I'd go for position rather than try for an Italian center
> this year, but if you want to try for it I have no objection. (Just BTF.)
>

I'll be thinking about it for a bit.  Can I count on Army Sil to support
Army Berlin?

Regard,
Kaiser D

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Why did the army move from Sev?

Only because it wasn't doing anything in Sev. Ukr is closer to action, I
can at least move to War. And Ukr isn't any closer to your centers than
Sev, is it?

>  I assume it will return there in the Fall?

Uh, I guess. :) Wasn't planning to. Ok, sure. In Sev it makes me a little
safer in case *you* stab *me*. (Putting your fleet in Con, for instance.)


>There are a number of ways that you could get no build, a lot depending on
>what England does.  If he and I stay out of it, then Germany can still
>protect Kiel and Denmark.  If England tries to grab Hol, then things get
>trickier.

I think England will try to grab Hol, yes. (And he'll succeed.)


>Perhaps I can use this to put England more at ease.  Suggesting that he
>move so as to deny you the build without making an overtly hostile move.
>That would help to convince him that he's not facing an already accomplished
>AR.  What do you think?

Hmmm.
Don't like that so much. I mean, you make the plan, then you carry it out,
and suddenly England thinks he's got me right where he wants me and
launches his attack....
My idea was more like this: England sees some minor problems brewing
between A and R, and England has just done something nice for R (tried to
help me get into Denmark), so E figures, "Ah, now I can safely leave Nwy
unguarded."


>I can certainly consider supporting Germany.  It might look a bit odd however
>if I did that then built a fleet and made no other moves towards you.  I think
>Kal would see something fishy in that.

I know, that's the problem.

>I'll be thinking about it for a bit.  Can I count on Army Sil to support
>Army Berlin?

No, of course not. What do you mean?
Oh, do you mean Sil S MUN? Yes, that's fine. You didn't mean Pru S Ber, did
you? Because I might want to move Ber-Kie.

Tsar J

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

> Only because it wasn't doing anything in Sev. Ukr is closer to action, I
> can at least move to War. And Ukr isn't any closer to your centers than
> Sev, is it?
>
> >  I assume it will return there in the Fall?
>
> Uh, I guess. :) Wasn't planning to. Ok, sure. In Sev it makes me a little
> safer in case *you* stab *me*. (Putting your fleet in Con, for instance.)
>

I guess I had sort of assumed that army wasn't really going to be in on
the action in the north and having it in Sev meant that I didn't even
need to consider that you might do something nasty like build a fleet there.
Of course you can stab me even more effectively with armies, so perhaps
I shouldn't bother worrying!

I do try to keep in mind your perspective of the board as well.  I think
first of course of the possibility that you'll take a shot at Con, then
realize that I could go to Rum, so we both have to worry.  On the whole
I still think I'm rather more vulnerable with no armies really in a position
to protect my homeland.  Of course Manus has pointed out to me in great
detail what danger I am still in.

>
> >There are a number of ways that you could get no build, a lot depending on
> >what England does.  If he and I stay out of it, then Germany can still
> >protect Kiel and Denmark.  If England tries to grab Hol, then things get
> >trickier.
>
> I think England will try to grab Hol, yes. (And he'll succeed.)
>
>
> >Perhaps I can use this to put England more at ease.  Suggesting that he
> >move so as to deny you the build without making an overtly hostile move.
> >That would help to convince him that he's not facing an already accomplished
> >AR.  What do you think?
>
> Hmmm.
> Don't like that so much. I mean, you make the plan, then you carry it out,
> and suddenly England thinks he's got me right where he wants me and
> launches his attack....
> My idea was more like this: England sees some minor problems brewing
> between A and R, and England has just done something nice for R (tried to
> help me get into Denmark), so E figures, "Ah, now I can safely leave Nwy
> unguarded."
>
>
Okay.  You have three units in position, one of which has to go for Den
and one for Kie.  All that is left is a guess as to what Bal should do.
You won't get a build if Germany guesses correctly, and it should be possible
to arrange this.  Perhaps *I* should leak to Germany?  Or we should just
do our best to determine what Germany is going to do, then make the wrong
guess!

The other option of course is to try and convince England not to go for
Hol this turn and to be satisfied with his other gains.  Don't know if
we could do anything with that.

Option 3 is to go ahead and get the build and build a southern ST Pete fleet,
but I don't think England would find that overly reassuring.  It's so
annoying having to take into account other power's concerns isn't it (<:.

> >I can certainly consider supporting Germany.  It might look a bit odd however
> >if I did that then built a fleet and made no other moves towards you.  I
think
> >Kal would see something fishy in that.
>
> I know, that's the problem.
>
> >I'll be thinking about it for a bit.  Can I count on Army Sil to support
> >Army Berlin?
>
> No, of course not. What do you mean?
> Oh, do you mean Sil S MUN? Yes, that's fine. You didn't mean Pru S Ber, did
> you? Because I might want to move Ber-Kie.
>
Sorry, it's Monday!  Yes, I did mean Sil s Mun.  And of course, support
for Aeg - Ion.

Kaiser D

Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':


>Well, seems things went according to plan, always a surprise!


And always a pleasant one. :)

>I do of course still have my concerns about Russia.  While he could not
>launch much of a stab this year, only acquiring one center, he could
>position well for an attack next year.  I think it would be a big help
>to both of us if he did not get a build this year.  Unfortunately, the
>German moves did not make this an easy task.  Germany can still defend
>his centers against Russia with the following:
>
>Kie - Den, Ska s Kie - Den, Ruh - Kie, Hol s Ruh - Kie


Germany would have to GET an army in Holland first.  Check the board again.

Regardless, a Russian build looks unlikely unless he decides to stab you for
a single centre (Con).  If Germany supports Den with Ska & Kie with Ruh, it
would take intervention on your part or mine to get Russia a build.

>The only danger would be Bal, Ber and Mun all attacking Kie, and I think
>I can arrange for that not to happen (<:.
>
>Do you think you can arrange something like this?  Do you feel that you
>need to attack Germany this year?  If you attacked Hol, the above would
>fail.  You could try to convince Germany to attack Kie from Hol,
>but I'm not sure what the rational would be.


I can take Hol without upsetting the German support scheme in Rusia's
favour.

>I'd really prefer to not see a Russian build.  If there is going to be
>one, then I need to know so I can prepare my own defenses better.


As I said, unless he stabs for that solitary centre, I don't see him
building this year.

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from England to France, Germany and Italy in

'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England, France and
>Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>
>> >Hohn, feel free to move Spa-Mar, and Cal, feel free to move MAO-Spa/sc.
>> >I'll see you both in the Russian-dominated next world.  :-)
>>
>> If it's all the same to you, I'd just as soon not throw up the white flag
>> just yet, Manus.  France's fleet will be much more useful in the Western
Med
>> than it would be a) taking a centre off you and b) owning a centre he
can't
>> build for.
>>
>I was speaking with tongue FIRMLY in cheek.  We all know that Spa-Mar and
>MAO-Spa/sc would give the game to Russia.  All of us except the observers,
>I was saying.


Ah, okay,  It's not always easy to see that bulge in your cheek via
e-mail... ;)

>My white flag is still packed away.  If I pull it out anytime soon, it will
>be to put the torch to it.


I'll bring the marshmallows.

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

> Germany would have to GET an army in Holland first.  Check the board again.
>
Oh great, make me feel stupid on a Monday.  Teach me to not double check
things.  I don't know how I managed that, but I misread it as Ruh - Hol
instead of Ruh - Kie.  Oh well, never mind (<:.

Kaiser D the Befuddled.

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Whoops. I just looked at the board again and realized that I had misread
the results.  Somehow I thought Germany had moved Ruh - Hol instead of
Ruh - Kie.  With the current position, it should not be any problem for
you to not get a build.  Just have Sweden support Bal to Den and try
Ber - Kie.  I can even support Ber - Kie and it won't matter, they'll
both bounce.

This won't even appear overly stupid on your part as you need to be
concerned about a joint G/E attack on Sweden, so attacking Den to
cut support is reasonable.  All Germany has to do is to support Den
to hold and everything bounces.  Even if he attacks Swe, it bounces
as the support is cut.  Unless you expect him to do something really
outrageous, it should be a stalemate.

Kaiser D

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':


>Ok, I've been able to think it through a bit.
>(From your second mail to me:)
>
>>I figure it's about 50-50.  If he says no, then we'll have to take a close
>>look at just how many builds Austria is likely to get.  If we can hold it
to
>>zero, this is the time to do the foul deed.
>
>First of all, if you actually ask Germany and he says no, the whole trick
>may be spoiled. I mean, he might blab, then I wouldn't get Con or Mun,
>Austria would build A Bud, etc. Awful.


Okay, I have asked and gotten a reply.  Don't worry about him blabbing.  I
phrased it to look as if, although you would go along with the plan if he
was willing, there was only a very SLIGHT chance that you would be likely to
believe him.  Between the way I phrased it and the somewhat wildness of the
plan, you definitely have "plausable deniability" with Austria.  Just say
"Well, what ELSE is Germany likely to say?  He's trying to break us up!"

As to his reply, he said he would rather try to ally with Austria as you
were likely to "have him for lunch", but that wasn't his final word.  He's
going to "ponder" the situation and get back to me.  The phrasing seems to
mean to me that the odds of his going along are now about 30-70 against.

>However, as you've noted, it might be workable without German help.


I think so.  Austria has written to me to say that while you make him
nervous, he doesn't see a stab happening this turn.  All the more reason to
do it, no?

>> Do you guys have any
>>arrangements for Con?  IE a mutual bounce?  If not, you'd be okay there
and
>>Munich may even be irrelevent.  He gains Mun and loses Con, ergo no build.
>
>Austria can't bounce me in Con, really, because he needs that army to guard
>Greece. I suppose he could use the F Aeg, but I presume he is going to take
>a try at Ionian. (He was supposed to move Tri-Adr, by the way; this might
>conceivably be a trick to have Tri occupied in the Winter? But it's very
>unlikely, at this point, that Italy will move to Adr.)
>And, as you say, if I take Con, Austria doesn't build.


I agree with your reasoning here as regards the availability of Con.

>>Am I missing anything?
>
>As a matter of fact, there is one small issue you've overlooked (see
below).
>
>(Now your first mail to me)
>
>>Russia:   A Ber-Mun, s by A Sil; A Ukr-Gal; A Smy-Con; F Eas-Aeg.
>>England:  F Mid-Spasc; A Bur-Mar; A Bel-Hol; F Nwy H.
>>Germany:  A Ruh & A Kie s A Ber-Mun.
>>Italy:    A Pie-Tyo; F Tyn-Nap.
>
>Is that F Mid-Spasc a typo? Or do you know for sure that France will leave?
>Seems like you ought to move to Por. Well, I'm sure you won't do anything
>silly :).


No typo.  I want to have Manus down two centres this turn as I don't want
him to be a factor in the Med any more and I'm very sure that Hohn is moving
out.  Manus seems quite blinkered to the idea that I can do anything OTHER
than try to stop the A/R juggernaut.  Hohn probably has his doubts about me
(gee, wonder why?), but I think he'll play the part Manus asks him to play
(F Spasc-Wes, that is).

>>2) I THINK I can get Germany to go along with these moves.  He knows he's
>>pretty much cooked and I'm hoping I can call in one last favour.
Obviously,
>>a lot depends on his cooperation, so I'll let you know what he says after
I
>>sound him out.
>
>As I said, my real worry is not that he'd refuse but that he'd tattle.


I don't think he will.

>>3) Manus, from his quick note to me this morning, is almost ready to throw
>>in the towel.  I think he'll do the above moves if I can give him the
merest
>>sniff of a A/R breakup.  Probably need your diplomatic help here, my
friend.
>
>Interesting.
>Again, I don't want to spread this 'secret' around. Nothing dumber than
>telling the whole world you're about to stab someone. Especially if you
are!
>I suppose I could try to reassure Manus while being very vague about the
>date of an A/R breakup.


Manus has since said his comments were tongue-in-cheek and he intends to
fight on until the end.  Sounds good to me and the sooner the better... :)

Let's leave off the idea of asking Manus for support in the "Munich Ploy"
should we decide to do it.  I'm pretty sure I have enough pull with Austria
to make sure he doesn't dig in with everything he's got to defend Munich
should we decide to go for it.

>Here's the small point you seem to have missed. The Italian moves you
>suggest are not safe. Austria could take Rome, by Apu S Ven-Rom, Tyo-Apu.
>
>The safe moves for Italy are as follows:
>
>Ion-Nap, TyS S Rom, Rom S Pie-Ven
>
>or else
>
>Pie-Ven, Rom-Ven!, Ion-Apu, TyS-Nap
>
>(so Austria's support is cut no matter which way he tries to take Rome; the
>move Rom-Ven is in case Austria tries Ven S Tyo-Pie.)


Good points.  I'll suggest these to Manus.

>>4) Even without Germany's help, I think this will probably be the last
Fall
>>turn where we have a chance to do any sort of quick and unexpected damage
to
>>Austria.  If he gets a build or two, his homeland will be covered and any
>>stab will have to be the trench warfare type.  Also, you're going to score
>>at least one (Den!), maybe two (Con!?) and possibly even three (Mun?)
builds
>>this turn.  What better time?
>
>Right. Except, there may be one more chance. If Austria does get a build, I
>feel confident that he'll build F Tri. His army in the Balkans would be
>freed up to keep me from waltzing in, but I'd still have a significant
>advantage. The problem, I think, would be that I would be building an army
>this Winter, and Austria will know that means trouble. (He thinks I'll
>build F Stp, of course. I haven't been botching up my diplomacy with him,
>you know.) As I hinted, my idea would be to begin my stab in the Spring.
>But not in the Winter!


Unfortunately, this IS the last chance to do the dirty deed with proper
timing for MY units.  I am going to have to commit to SOMETHING next turn
unless I just want my units to diddle around, sitting in Mid.  While the
logical move after I take Spa & Mar would be to continue into the Med,
that's the one thing that will most definitely alienate Austria.  Best you
get it started this turn so I can charge into Wes & Lyo the following
Spring.

Re:[F Lon, F Lpl, A Edi]

>Yes, those are the builds for you that I would prefer. And no, I won't
>build in Stp! (Even if by some miracle I got four builds, I would waive the
>fourth. Of course, I can't get four. Earlier I considered Sev-Rum instead
>of Sev-Ukr, in which case I'd have had a chance for a bigger stab; but I
>decided it telegraphed the stab too much.)


I saw that and agree that it would sent up a red (white?) flare.

>>6) Shall I mention your commitment to make the first move?  Nah...  ;)
>
>:-)
>I will, for sure.
>
>And I do feel that this is very likely the right moment, too. I still have
>*some* small doubt, still have *some* feeling that I ought to wait and do a
>Spring stab after Austria has built a fleet. I know you probably don't want
>another fleet in the Med, but I assure you he would be disbanding fleets in
>seasons to come! I'll rethink things a couple of times this week, in any
>case.


Better he doesn't build at all and we make our move sooner, I think.  Like I
said, diddling around for a turn or two would be a real waste of the
momentum we could get if we go for it this turn.

>p.s. Thanks for the modem tips. None of them worked, so I'm afraid I'll
>have to build F Stp.


Ah, the rewards of tech support... ;)

>Actually, here's the deal. The computer sometimes thinks that the COMM2
>port doesn't work or doesn't exist. (My wife does all this stuff, she's the
>computer pro in the family, so try to bear with me.) In the control panel,
>the COMM2 port exists and appears to be installed correctly. Johanna says
>when she tries the diagnostic, typing "MODE COMM2", it says "ILLEGAL NAME".


Probably have to remove and reinstall the Com Port, I imagine.  If none of
the stuff I said worked, it's time for the hardware folks to take their best
shot at it anyway.

>I think she's taking it in today, to the place that replaced the
>motherboard and did the upgrade. They swear they had the modem working, but
>I suspect that's just what they always say, "Sure, we got it to work fine
>here."


That's what *I* would say...  They probably burned it out with a 16 hour
session of Quake or something... ;)

Kordially komrade,

King Kal

Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>
>> Germany would have to GET an army in Holland first.  Check the board
again.
>>
>Oh great, make me feel stupid on a Monday.  Teach me to not double check
>things.  I don't know how I managed that, but I misread it as Ruh - Hol
>instead of Ruh - Kie.  Oh well, never mind (<:.


Okay, sorry about that.  Let me know which day is good to make you feel
stupid on, okay?  

King Kal

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

> Okay, sorry about that.  Let me know which day is good to make you feel
> stupid on, okay?  
>

The sixth Tuesday of any month is good.  (<:

Have you given any thought to next year yet?  I'm not going to have the
units in position to hit Russia as I doubt I'll get anything from Italy
this year.  Next year should give me some and let me get set up.  I know
that he's got an eye on Den and Kie.  That would only leave Por for you
to pick up, and other than that you'll either need to head into the
Med (NOT good!) or start a move on Russia.  Do you anticipate just taking
the one center leaving just the three of us and Manus with a center or
two, or do you think it make sense to contest for Kie and Den.

In many ways I don't really want to know what you are going to do so I
can't be accussed of passing it on, but I do need to have some idea of
timing so I can have my forces properly positioned.

Regards,
Kaiser D

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

I can only assume from your silence that you're about
to stab Jamie for all he's worth.  Godspeed to you!

Very happy to be re-allied with you,
Manus (who asks only for Smyrna and Ankara from the spoils; oh and
       maybe Greece if you wouldn't mind, but that's a long way off)

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

That A Ukr is no big deal to me. I'd rather not have it further from my
front than it has to be, but Sev is not a lot further than Ukr anyway,
since I figure I'd probably move it into action via Mos.

>I do try to keep in mind your perspective of the board as well.  I think
>first of course of the possibility that you'll take a shot at Con, then
>realize that I could go to Rum, so we both have to worry.

Yeah, I know. It bothers me a little, but you'll notice that I didn't even
*ask* if I could move that army back to Rum. :) It would be nice if I could
just remove RUM from the map, leaving a big hole there.

On (roughly) that topic, you're moving your army out of Turkey now. I don't
mine moving mine around the back door to Sev, or just to Armenia. Of
course, I wanted it in Smy partly because you wouldn't tell me what fleet
action you were doing, how you were going to protect Gre, but  now it isn't
needed there. (I was also thinking just maybe it could be convoyed, but
that doesn't look very promising, does it?) If you want me to do that, I
think I'd rather do it next Spring, so that England doesn't see that I'm
essentially making it impossible for myself to stab you. That's assuming I
do take a center and build F Stp. At that point I can stop worrying about
little things that might project my intentions.

> On the whole
>I still think I'm rather more vulnerable with no armies really in a position
>to protect my homeland.

Maybe, though you are not at all vulnerable to anyone else. That's the
difference, the big one from my perspective. But such is Russia's fate
.

> Of course Manus has pointed out to me in great
>detail what danger I am still in.

He hasn't been saying anything to me.
John does want to give me just one more chance....


At the moment, I think my best bet is just to go ahead and try to take the
center(s) and build the fleet if I do get it(them). I haven't decided
finally, though.


>Sorry, it's Monday!  Yes, I did mean Sil s Mun.  And of course, support
>for Aeg - Ion.

Right, both of those are settled.

Tsar J

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

Yeesh. Well, ok, I guess Dave isn't likely to get spooked even if John does
say something to him.


>Austria has written to me to say that while you make him
>nervous, he doesn't see a stab happening this turn.  All the more reason to
>do it, no?

Yeah, that has a certain logic to it.


(On Mid-Spa)

>No typo.  I want to have Manus down two centres this turn as I don't want
>him to be a factor in the Med any more and I'm very sure that Hohn is moving
>out.

Wheeeew.
Ok. I like the idea of having Hohn help you with his fleet, anyway.

> Manus seems quite blinkered to the idea that I can do anything OTHER
>than try to stop the A/R juggernaut.  Hohn probably has his doubts about me
>(gee, wonder why?), but I think he'll play the part Manus asks him to play
>(F Spasc-Wes, that is).

Sure, makes sense. Hohn knows that if you're going to take an Iberian
center, it's going to be Spain not Por; and an extra center is no use to
him! I'm a little surprised he doesn't want to go to Gulf of Lyon instead,
just so he has some vague distant prospect of regaining a home center.


>Let's leave off the idea of asking Manus for support in the "Munich Ploy"
>should we decide to do it.  I'm pretty sure I have enough pull with Austria
>to make sure he doesn't dig in with everything he's got to defend Munich
>should we decide to go for it.

Right. I agree.


>Unfortunately, this IS the last chance to do the dirty deed with proper
>timing for MY units.  I am going to have to commit to SOMETHING next turn
>unless I just want my units to diddle around, sitting in Mid.  While the
>logical move after I take Spa & Mar would be to continue into the Med,
>that's the one thing that will most definitely alienate Austria.  Best you
>get it started this turn so I can charge into Wes & Lyo the following
>Spring.

I see that. But, remember, even if I don't decide to go for it this move,
I'll do it next move (Spring 06). And your builds won't be very commital
either way.

But I am more and more leaning toward this season for the stab. (Every time
I type a line, I scroll up to the top to make *SURE* I've written "press to
e" and not "press to a"! This is a good sign that my subconscious is
getting nervous, therefore that it has already decided for me that this is
the big move....) (Now that I made the thought conscious, I'm going to be
constantly worried that *you* will send something to Austria by mistake.
Please check fifteen times every message.)


Tsar J

p.s. Modem update:
Apparently the modem itself was screwed, overheating. The guys at the shop,
having said that it worked when they had it last, can't claim that it was
damaged by the electrical surge! I think we'll have to pay for a new board
only. (Or is that a card?) Now with the new motherboard, new mouse, new
cpu, new board, and an extra 32 MB of RAM, this little deal is costing me a
bit more than I'd thought. Still, we were due for an upgrade, the computer
is 18 months old after all. Wouldn't it be cool if you could upgrade your
car after 18 months for about $200? "Yeah, we bumped you up to 250
horsepower, so of course you had to have a new suspension and transmission,
and we figured you'd want antilock breaks. It comes to $130 plus labor." Of
course, it would suck if it took three minutes to start the car up every
time you turned it off.

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

> Next year can be pretty easily do-able for me.  I'll have the units and the
> time to position them properly.  Also, contesting of Kiel & Denmark will
> almost certainly be on the menu for the Fall of next year.  It's a bit early
> to talk about how we'll split up the German "carcass" as the tactics of the
> situation will greatly dictate THAT disposition.
>
> In short, if you can have your units in position to attack Russia on the
> Kiel, Warsaw & Balkan fronts (or whatever you think will work out best
> tactically) we should be able to pull this one off.  Of course, it will be
> up to you to maintain good diplomatic relations with Jamie until that time.
>

I can retain good relations fairly easily I think, as long as he keeps them
up with me!  Since he's expecting conflict with you sooner or later, this
should not cause him to panic or suspect me, that won't happen until I
swing east instead of west.  Next year would probably be largely positional
on my part, although I might be able to slip in for one dot.  I'll have
to evaluate whether it's better to try for one or to let him shift his
attention north and hit for more the next year.  The main question I was
interested in was if you would contest the German centers.  If you are
(I'm now assuming yes), that means no forth coming builds for Russia,
which is a help.

Kaiser D

Message from England to France, Germany and Italy in

'pouchtoo':

Well, I've been doing my damnedest to poke a stick between Austria & Russia,
but it just ain't working, certainly not in any tangible way.  Therefore, I
guess I better stop dawdling and get my a's (and f's!) in gear.  ;)

Manus, I need to know just how much strength fleet-wise, you want me to send
into the Med.  I suppose we're past the point where it's silly to worry
about making you "nervous" about an English naval presence in the
Mediterranean, but I figure I better ask for form's sake.

Presumably, Hohn will be moving to Wes or Lyo and my fleet in Mid will
follow to Naf or Wes.  I'm going to move F Bre to Mid for sure, but in the
Spring I can move it either to Nat or follow my other fleets south.  I'd
like some input on this from the "Forces of Good".  My personal inclination
is to send both fleets south before A/R can correct the naval imbalance.

Other tactical suggestions are welcome.  John?  Hohn?

Kordially komrades,

King Kal

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':


>>Unfortunately, this IS the last chance to do the dirty deed with proper
>>timing for MY units.  I am going to have to commit to SOMETHING next turn
>>unless I just want my units to diddle around, sitting in Mid.  While the
>>logical move after I take Spa & Mar would be to continue into the Med,
>>that's the one thing that will most definitely alienate Austria.  Best you
>>get it started this turn so I can charge into Wes & Lyo the following
>>Spring.
>
>I see that. But, remember, even if I don't decide to go for it this move,
>I'll do it next move (Spring 06). And your builds won't be very commital
>either way.


Not sure I agree with that.  F Lpl & F Lon looked awfully committal to
France when I built them in Fall 1901... I doubt Austria, who, remember,
made me take a "blood oath" to stay out of the Med, would take it very much
differently...

>But I am more and more leaning toward this season for the stab. (Every time
>I type a line, I scroll up to the top to make *SURE* I've written "press to
>e" and not "press to a"! This is a good sign that my subconscious is
>getting nervous, therefore that it has already decided for me that this is
>the big move....) (Now that I made the thought conscious, I'm going to be
>constantly worried that *you* will send something to Austria by mistake.
>Please check fifteen times every message.)


Laugh.  I've already been doing that.  Now YOU just listen to your
subconscious!  :)

>p.s. Modem update:
>Apparently the modem itself was screwed, overheating. The guys at the shop,
>having said that it worked when they had it last, can't claim that it was
>damaged by the electrical surge! I think we'll have to pay for a new board
>only. (Or is that a card?) Now with the new motherboard, new mouse, new
>cpu, new board, and an extra 32 MB of RAM, this little deal is costing me a
>bit more than I'd thought. Still, we were due for an upgrade, the computer
>is 18 months old after all. Wouldn't it be cool if you could upgrade your
>car after 18 months for about $200? "Yeah, we bumped you up to 250
>horsepower, so of course you had to have a new suspension and transmission,
>and we figured you'd want antilock breaks. It comes to $130 plus labor." Of
>course, it would suck if it took three minutes to start the car up every
>time you turned it off.


Sounds like a Canadian winter...  ;)

Kordially komrade,

King Kal

Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':


>Have you given any thought to next year yet?  I'm not going to have the
>units in position to hit Russia as I doubt I'll get anything from Italy
>this year.  Next year should give me some and let me get set up.  I know
>that he's got an eye on Den and Kie.  That would only leave Por for you
>to pick up, and other than that you'll either need to head into the
>Med (NOT good!) or start a move on Russia.  Do you anticipate just taking
>the one center leaving just the three of us and Manus with a center or
>two, or do you think it make sense to contest for Kie and Den.
>
>In many ways I don't really want to know what you are going to do so I
>can't be accussed of passing it on, but I do need to have some idea of
>timing so I can have my forces properly positioned.


Next year can be pretty easily do-able for me.  I'll have the units and the
time to position them properly.  Also, contesting of Kiel & Denmark will
almost certainly be on the menu for the Fall of next year.  It's a bit early
to talk about how we'll split up the German "carcass" as the tactics of the
situation will greatly dictate THAT disposition.

In short, if you can have your units in position to attack Russia on the
Kiel, Warsaw & Balkan fronts (or whatever you think will work out best
tactically) we should be able to pull this one off.  Of course, it will be
up to you to maintain good diplomatic relations with Jamie until that time.

Kordially,


King Kal

Message from Italy to England, France and

Germany in 'pouchtoo':

> Well, I've been doing my damnedest to poke a stick between Austria & Russia,
> but it just ain't working, certainly not in any tangible way.
>
:-(

> Therefore, I
> guess I better stop dawdling and get my a's (and f's!) in gear.  ;)
>
I suppose so.

> Manus, I need to know just how much strength fleet-wise, you want me to send
> into the Med.  I suppose we're past the point where it's silly to worry
> about making you "nervous" about an English naval presence in the
> Mediterranean, but I figure I better ask for form's sake.
>
I appreciate you asking, but I agree with you that at this point, the more
you can send the better.  Given the unfortunate success of Dave's move out
of Venice, I will need all the strength I can borrow to ensure I can get my
little boot back.

If we can fill the Med with fleets before Dave and Jamie do, we will have the
upper hand and can use it to punish them.  So sail as much force as you can
down here.

> Presumably, Hohn will be moving to Wes or Lyo and my fleet in Mid will
> follow to Naf or Wes.  I'm going to move F Bre to Mid for sure, but in the
> Spring I can move it either to Nat or follow my other fleets south.  I'd
> like some input on this from the "Forces of Good".  My personal inclination
> is to send both fleets south before A/R can correct the naval imbalance.
>
I concur.  Two English fleets, one French fleet, and my outgunned navy
all down in the warm waters working together (to the shock and dismay of
our observers, who don't seem to understand alliance play) can hopefully
turn the tide against the two meanies.

Holding on for dear life until you can come rescue me,
Manus

Message from Italy to England and France in

'pouchtoo':

> Presumably, Hohn will be moving to Wes or Lyo and my fleet in Mid will
> follow to Naf or Wes.
>
Just make sure you both don't go for WES!  :-)  I leave it to you two
to discuss this little (but vital to our defense) point.

Manus

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

Hey, dude. You just made a tiny little mistake. Did you notice?

You typed "press to r" instead of "press to e".


No sweat, though. Nothing in there I wouldn't have guessed would be there,
no big surprises. I suppose you are just assuming that anything you send to
King Kal has a good chance of getting to me, in any case. (You ought to.)
I'm certainly supposing that my messages to him are being synopsized to you.

Still, that's a horrible feeling, when you get back that acknowledgement
>from the Judge and it has the wrong power's name on it. Isn't it?
:)


Tsar J
p.s. In case you really didn't notice and don't know *which* of the many
damning notes you've written for England actually got to me instead: it's
the one where you say you'll probably try some low-key sort of stab next
year, and that you're happy to hear that King Kal will be contesting Kie
and Den next year too. I still have it. Do you want it back? :)

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Hey there! *sheepish grin*

Well, as you said at the start, there's usually at least one of those.
I didn't even notice, I usually just blow away the responses.

I don't think I need it back thanks (<:.

Please note that I did not say I'll try a low key stab, just that I
might consider one and that I'd probably have to wait until the next
year.  While it is of course embarassing to have mis-sent it, as you
said, we all know that we are all talking to each other.  My goal as
you can see from that is to avoid having to commit to an attack on you.
I have the problem of having to get through Italy to get to England
and as we both know, you two, if you are going to fight, are going to
be at odds sooner than that.

Obviously, I'd like to see that happen because if you two are fighting,
neither of you is coming my way.  On the other hand, as we have discussed
before, I do not see a percentage in jumping on you as England will be
getting the gains faster than I.  Sure I could try to jump you in Turkey,
but England doesn't need to come that far south to get 18, he can do it
with just Mos and Stp.  I'm counting on you realizing that as well to
keep you from coming at me (<:.

I know you are between us and I know that will tend to make you a bit
paranoid, that is one of the reasons I've moved my armies so far west.
I will get only only build this year, and it will be a fleet as promised
so you know you'll have the breathing room you need.  I'm trying to stay
in touch with England about his plans so that I'll know just what he is
going to do in regards to Germany next year.  Maybe after he stabs Germany
this year we can even consider trying to use Germany against him?

So, sorry to air my dirty laundry in your backyard.  I hope it hasn't
strained things.  If I do hear anything specific from England I will
let you know.  I think there will be conflict over Germany for the
simple reason that I have made very clear that if any English unit
enters the Med it will cast an AR alliance in solid stone.

Regards
The Sheepish Kaiser

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

> p.s. In case you really didn't notice and don't know *which* of the many
> damning notes you've written for England actually got to me instead: it's
> the one where you say you'll probably try some low-key sort of stab next
> year, and that you're happy to hear that King Kal will be contesting Kie
> and Den next year too. I still have it. Do you want it back? :)

Oh good, it wasn't the one where I promised to land the paratroopers in
Moscow this year (<:.

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

> Next year can be pretty easily do-able for me.  I'll have the units and the
> time to position them properly.  Also, contesting of Kiel & Denmark will
> almost certainly be on the menu for the Fall of next year.  It's a bit early
> to talk about how we'll split up the German "carcass" as the tactics of the
> situation will greatly dictate THAT disposition.
>
> In short, if you can have your units in position to attack Russia on the
> Kiel, Warsaw & Balkan fronts (or whatever you think will work out best
> tactically) we should be able to pull this one off.  Of course, it will be
> up to you to maintain good diplomatic relations with Jamie until that time.
>

I can retain good relations fairly easily I think, as long as he keeps them
up with me!  Since he's expecting conflict with you sooner or later, this
should not cause him to panic or suspect me, that won't happen until I
swing east instead of west.  Next year would probably be largely positional
on my part, although I might be able to slip in for one dot.  I'll have
to evaluate whether it's better to try for one or to let him shift his
attention north and hit for more the next year.  The main question I was
interested in was if you would contest the German centers.  If you are
(I'm now assuming yes), that means no forth coming builds for Russia,
which is a help.

Kaiser D

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

It's no problem, really.

As long as you're predicting (rather than promising), and your predictions
are about the end of next year (rather than about this coming turn), I
figure that's about the best A/E relations I could expect, from my point of
view! King Kal has already told me that you seem to be "gearing up" for a
stab. Let's just keep that in low gear.

In any case, I think I'd better try to get a German center now if I can!
Otherwise I can expect Kiel and Denmark to be 'contested' next year, huh?
;-)

Tsar J

Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>I can retain good relations fairly easily I think, as long as he keeps them
>up with me!  Since he's expecting conflict with you sooner or later, this
>should not cause him to panic or suspect me, that won't happen until I
>swing east instead of west.  Next year would probably be largely positional
>on my part, although I might be able to slip in for one dot.  I'll have
>to evaluate whether it's better to try for one or to let him shift his
>attention north and hit for more the next year.  The main question I was
>interested in was if you would contest the German centers.  If you are
>(I'm now assuming yes), that means no forth coming builds for Russia,
>which is a help.


Just so you don't misunderstand, I won't be contesting them THIS turn and,
since John can hold them himself, Russia shouldn't build.

Next year, however, is a different story.

King Kal

Message from Italy to England, France and

Germany in 'pouchtoo':

> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Observer in 'pouchtoo':
>
> ...
>
> 	Italy is in a real difficult position now, it will be interesting
> to see what kind of moves he comes up with.
>
Make me look good, guys.

Manus

Message from France to England and Italy in 'pouchtoo':

> Hohn, I'll head for NAF unless you tell me otherwise.

Sounds good.  SPA(sc)-WES for me.  Sorry so short, work is hell.

Hohn

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

>
> Just so you don't misunderstand, I won't be contesting them THIS turn and,
> since John can hold them himself, Russia shouldn't build.
>
> Next year, however, is a different story.
>

Yes, I understood that, but thanks for clarifying anyway.

Give my regards to the Spanish.

Kaiser D

Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

Greetings oh Prince of Pasta

> I can only assume from your silence that you're about
> to stab Jamie for all he's worth.  Godspeed to you!
>
  Someday....

For now, just assume that work is weighing me down.  Darn real world
keeps intruding.

> Very happy to be re-allied with you,
> Manus (who asks only for Smyrna and Ankara from the spoils; oh and
>        maybe Greece if you wouldn't mind, but that's a long way off)

Tell you what, why don't you claim London, Edinburgh and Liverpool?  I
have no problem with you owning as many centers as you want north of the
Paris/Munich line. (<:

Kaiser D

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

What tactics do you have in mind for the north?  My fleet in Norway is at
your disposal.

Kordially Komrade

King Kal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

Well, what you suggested seems fine. You just use F Nwy to nudge F Ska,
cutting support.

I don't suppose A Bel is available for Bel-Ruh, huh?

Tsar J

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

So, why don't you have A Mun S A Ber-Kie. If by some chance it goes, great,
I'll take that as a sign from the gods that I should just take the German
centers and build.

Tsar J

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

> Tell you what, why don't you claim London, Edinburgh and Liverpool?  I
> have no problem with you owning as many centers as you want north of the
> Paris/Munich line. (<:
>
Well, would you mind terribly if I started with, say, Venice?  It's
pretty close to Munich, and all.

Manus

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>Well, what you suggested seems fine. You just use F Nwy to nudge F Ska,
>cutting support.
>
>I don't suppose A Bel is available for Bel-Ruh, huh?


Nah, it has plans for obtaining the recipe for Hollandaise sauce.

As for F Nwy-Ska, it's already been ordered... ;)

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

Can't make Hollandaise with that F Nth, huh?

Tsar J

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>Can't make Hollandaise with that F Nth, huh?


Wellllllllll, I suppose I could...

Have you made your decision vis-a-vis Austria yet?  Hmmm?  ;)

Seriously, if I'm going to show THAT much public cooperation with you, I
want to know you're going to be moving on Austria THIS turn.

King Kal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

>Seriously, if I'm going to show THAT much public cooperation with you, I
>want to know you're going to be moving on Austria THIS turn.

Fair enough.

Ok, let's see. Hmmmmm.

Yeah, I think I'm prepared to do that.
I mean, if you got three builds, and I got Con, Den, *and* Kie, that would
be a very nice way to reveal the Master Plan, don't you think? :-) Three
builds each. And you'd still have the benefit of my being the real stabber.
Your stabee (Kaiser John) would be gone! Another elimination; that's also a
nice flourish.

Tell you what, I've asked Austria to order Mun S Ber-Kie. If he says yes,
then I'll stab him and you'll cut Ruhr's support, and spend the next few
moves not having to worry about diplomacy, only tactics.

Ooooh, I hope he says yes, I'd really like to just 'play chess' for a
while! And I'm sure he'll agree, why wouldn't he? Even assuming he doesn't
want me to build, he'd have to figure that Germany will successfully defend
Kiel.

I'll confirm later, probably tomorrow, but I think we have ourselves a plan.


[Checking.... yep, "press to e" there it is right up at the top.]

Tsar J

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':


>Tell you what, I've asked Austria to order Mun S Ber-Kie. If he says yes,
>then I'll stab him and you'll cut Ruhr's support, and spend the next few
>moves not having to worry about diplomacy, only tactics.
>
>Ooooh, I hope he says yes, I'd really like to just 'play chess' for a
>while! And I'm sure he'll agree, why wouldn't he? Even assuming he doesn't
>want me to build, he'd have to figure that Germany will successfully defend
>Kiel.
>
>I'll confirm later, probably tomorrow, but I think we have ourselves a
plan.


Okay, I like the concept, but what happens if Austria says no?  I'm still
completely convinced that THIS is the turn to go for it regardless of his
answer.  Are you saying it's off until Spring if he cops out?

Of course, if he does say yes and follows thru, next turn will be an
all-time Diplomacy classic. :)

Fingers crossed.

Kordially komrade

King Kal

Message from England to France, Germany and Italy in

'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England, France and
>Germany in 'pouchtoo':


>I concur.  Two English fleets, one French fleet, and my outgunned navy
>all down in the warm waters working together (to the shock and dismay of
>our observers, who don't seem to understand alliance play) can hopefully
>turn the tide against the two meanies.
>
>Holding on for dear life until you can come rescue me,


Message received and acknowledged.

Hohn, I'll head for NAF unless you tell me otherwise.

Kordially komrades,

King Kal

Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

> > Tell you what, why don't you claim London, Edinburgh and Liverpool?  I
> > have no problem with you owning as many centers as you want north of the
> > Paris/Munich line. (<:
> >
> Well, would you mind terribly if I started with, say, Venice?  It's
> pretty close to Munich, and all.
>

No, no,  NORTH of the Munich/Paris line, not including it.   Besides, these
canals are really rather putrid.  I wouldn't advise reoccupying it for at
least a few years until we get a chance to clean it up.

Dave

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

> I wouldn't advise reoccupying it for at least a few years ...
>
All kidding aside (?), it sounds like perhaps we can actually start
talking about a reoccupation by my expatriates at some future time
(coupla years)?  Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but
if you're thinking to belatedly just ask for my permission to occupy
Venice for a while, I will be happy to discuss the issue, as one ally
to another....

Oh and thanks for cleaning the canals.  I owe you one,
Manus

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

Greetings King,

Russia has asked me to support Ber to Kie.  If he also supports with Bal
and hits Den with Sweden, then he's going to get in.  This could mean
that Germany's best defense is not Ska s Den, but Den s Ska - Swe.
Of course, Russia might support Swe - Den and cover Swe with Gob and
that would fail.  Who knows, it's a crap shoot.  But I figured in the
spirit of cooperation I should let you know what I know and you can
decide what you want to tell the German.

Happy hunting.

Kaiser D

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

> So, why don't you have A Mun S A Ber-Kie. If by some chance it goes, great,
> I'll take that as a sign from the gods that I should just take the German
> centers and build.
>
Since I've been asked to let the King know if I were going to do anything
in Germany I probably ought to tell him.  On the other hand, I can
point out that you can still do a couple of things, like use Bal to
support Ber - Kie, or use Bal to support Swe - Den and have Gob go
to Swe, so it still leaves it as a crap shoot for Germany.  If I don't
get involved it is of course easy for Germany to hang on.

Thoughts?
Kaiser D

Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':


>Russia has asked me to support Ber to Kie.  If he also supports with Bal
>and hits Den with Sweden, then he's going to get in.  This could mean
>that Germany's best defense is not Ska s Den, but Den s Ska - Swe.
>Of course, Russia might support Swe - Den and cover Swe with Gob and
>that would fail.  Who knows, it's a crap shoot.  But I figured in the
>spirit of cooperation I should let you know what I know and you can
>decide what you want to tell the German.


Okay, good.  I'll look at the board and try and figure out what's best.

I take it you are going to honour Russia's request?  If not, what are you
going to tell him?

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Since I've been asked to let the King know if I were going to do anything
>in Germany I probably ought to tell him.

Hummm.
Will he tell Germany, do you think?

> On the other hand, I can
>point out that you can still do a couple of things, like use Bal to
>support Ber - Kie, or use Bal to support Swe - Den and have Gob go
>to Swe, so it still leaves it as a crap shoot for Germany.  If I don't
>get involved it is of course easy for Germany to hang on.
>
>Thoughts?
>Kaiser D

Well, if you think King Kal is apt to use the info to help Germany
coordinate a defense, I guess I'd rather you didn't tell.
But if you think you must tell, I guess I'd still rather have you support
my move. It's just that I finally convinced myself that I *do* want the
build, so now I'm going to be disappointed if I don't get it. :)

So was that clear? Here are my preferences.

If King K won't tell Germany, then by all means go ahead and inform him of
your Mun support.
If he will tell, then I prefer (you don't tell King Kal) to (you do), but
still prefer (you tell King Kal and support me) to (you don't support me).

Tsar J

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Okay, here's what I think I will do.

I will support you.

I think the odds are about 60-40 that KK will NOT tell Germany.  I will
tell him, but I will mention that you are thinking about both different
attacks and weighing them about equally.  That reduces them to about a
20% chance of not giving you the center.

Kaiser D.

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

Greetings King,

I can't come up with a good excuse for not supporting Russia, so I will
do so.  As for what you do with the info, that's your call.  Tell Germany
or don't as you think best.  I really don't know which attack Russia
will try, he's been considering both and I can't push to know which one
without him querying my motives.

Kaiser D

Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':


>I can't come up with a good excuse for not supporting Russia, so I will
>do so.  As for what you do with the info, that's your call.  Tell Germany
>or don't as you think best.  I really don't know which attack Russia
>will try, he's been considering both and I can't push to know which one
>without him querying my motives.


Okay, fair enough. :)

King Kal

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

Ok, that's fine.

Is there anything else we have to settle?

Tsar J

>Okay, here's what I think I will do.
>
>I will support you.
>
>I think the odds are about 60-40 that KK will NOT tell Germany.  I will
>tell him, but I will mention that you are thinking about both different
>attacks and weighing them about equally.  That reduces them to about a
>20% chance of not giving you the center.
>
>Kaiser D.

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

>Okay, I like the concept, but what happens if Austria says no?

Not a question we have to worry about, since he's just told me he'd do it.

He also told me that he feels obliged to tell you anything he is going to
do "in Germany". So expect him to mention it. Act surprised. But don't try
to talk him out of it. :)



Tsar J

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>
>>Okay, I like the concept, but what happens if Austria says no?
>
>Not a question we have to worry about, since he's just told me he'd do it.
>
>He also told me that he feels obliged to tell you anything he is going to
>do "in Germany". So expect him to mention it. Act surprised. But don't try
>to talk him out of it. :)


Yup.  Actually got his message before yours... ;)

Okay, I'm sending in the amended moves (F Nth-Hol; F Nwy-Ska; A Bel-Ruh).

Like I said, a Diplomacy classic... :)

Kordially komrade,

King Kal

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

> Is there anything else we have to settle?
>
Yeah, I forget, who gets London (<:

Kaiser D

Message from Italy to England, France and

Germany in 'pouchtoo':

Okay, I'm going to get my moves in today.  Anyone want to kibbitz?
(Please?)  Obviously I need to keep an SC open to put that build
down that we engineered for me.  Anyone want to suggest the moves
they think give me the best chance of this?

Manus (kind of afraid to look, myself)

Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':

I have a downed computer until probably tonight. The monitor quit on
me. I have not thought about tactics for this turn much . Please
advise.

Kaiser

PS I want to get my ordres in so you can see them before you leave.

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

No?  Darn.  I guess all kidding wasn't aside, huh?

Seriously, though, although you outguessed me on the Venice move last
turn, we're going to bog down very quickly here, and one of us will
have to join the other's cause or we'll just watch the world move
around us.  I could join your cause, except that it seems to be devoted
to my own destruction, so I think the better choice is for you to
start thinking about tossing in with the rest of us against Jamie
before it gets to be too late.

Manus (the guy still playing the A/I :-)

Message from England to France, Germany and Italy in

'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England, France and
>Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>
>Okay, I'm going to get my moves in today.  Anyone want to kibbitz?
>(Please?)  Obviously I need to keep an SC open to put that build
>down that we engineered for me.  Anyone want to suggest the moves
>they think give me the best chance of this?


All I can see is this:

A Pie-Ven
F Ion-Apu
F Tyn-Nap
A Rom-Nap

Any support for an attack on Rome will be cut and, unless Dave decides to
support one of your units to Naples, it will be left open for a build.

Of course, you'll probably lose Ionian, but you'll have backup from Hohn & I
to get it back.

Komments?

King Kal

Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>I have a downed computer until probably tonight. The monitor quit on
>me. I have not thought about tactics for this turn much . Please
>advise.
>
>Kaiser
>
>PS I want to get my ordres in so you can see them before you leave.

Appreciated. :)

How about this for tactics?

A Den-Swe
F Ska s A Den-Swe
A Kie s Austrian A Mun-Ber (just as a gesture?)
A Ruh s A Kie

Komments?

King Kal

Message from Italy to England, France and

Germany in 'pouchtoo':

That's what I was thinking too.  But I just bet Dave will support one
of my units to Naples.  Oh well, you only live once.

(Unless you're James Bond, I suppose.)

Manus

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

Actually, ION-Apu will cut any support for Rom-Nap or TYS-Nap, so we should
be in good shape.  I'll retreat ION to Tun or ADR, and build A Nap.  With
you and Hohn speeding into the Med to stop up the gaps and push them back
out of ION, we'll eventually be fine.

And the observers can eat cake!

Manus

Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>Actually, ION-Apu will cut any support for Rom-Nap or TYS-Nap, so we should
>be in good shape.  I'll retreat ION to Tun or ADR, and build A Nap.  With
>you and Hohn speeding into the Med to stop up the gaps and push them back
>out of ION, we'll eventually be fine.
>
>And the observers can eat cake!


With mint frosting!  (Sorry, Star Trek: TNG reference)

Komedikally (I hope),

King Kal

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

One more thing, which probably goes without saying.

I know that the way the game is going, you are starting to look
real good.  In fact, if it came down to an EAR, I would toss all
I have your way.  I'm writing to say that I truly appreciate your
efforts to push my invaders off me, and well, I hope that once
they're off, you don't decide to eat me alive.  :-)  I think
our partnership in particular has been full of all the good
stuff of alliance play, and I'd like to see how far we can take
it.  If I get back on my feet, I hope you will at least consider
an E/I alliance before going with E/R or E/A.

(Says the guy with only four units and two -- soon to be three --
SC's just sitting there wide open.)

Manus

Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>One more thing, which probably goes without saying.
>
>I know that the way the game is going, you are starting to look
>real good.  In fact, if it came down to an EAR, I would toss all
>I have your way.  I'm writing to say that I truly appreciate your
>efforts to push my invaders off me, and well, I hope that once
>they're off, you don't decide to eat me alive.  :-)  I think
>our partnership in particular has been full of all the good
>stuff of alliance play, and I'd like to see how far we can take
>it.  If I get back on my feet, I hope you will at least consider
>an E/I alliance before going with E/R or E/A.


Sniff.  Kinda brings a tear to my eye (scenes of general hugging all
round...) :)

>(Says the guy with only four units and two -- soon to be three --
>SC's just sitting there wide open.)


Hard to say just where the game is going to end up, but I agree with you on
how well we have worked together.  I won't forget it when it comes time to
commit either down south or up north.

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from England to Germany and Italy in

'pouchtoo':


Any chance on you guys getting moves in fairly soon?  I have a ball game
tonight and work tomorrow so I won't be able to send any mail out unless I
can see the results in the next couple of hours.

King Kal

Message from Italy to England and Germany in

'pouchtoo':

My moves are in.

Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':

Don't have the map in front of me. I submitted the suggested orders.
Will I lose Kiel?

Kaiser

Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>Don't have the map in front of me. I submitted the suggested orders.
>Will I lose Kiel?
>
>Kaiser

Depends mostly on Austrian support and what Russia does with his fleet in
Baltic.

King Kal

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Wow, this is almost too easy.  Both Manus and John wrote to me today and
asked me to suggest moves for them and both agreed to my suggestions.  John
even submitted them blindly as he had no board at work.

Sure hope you went along with everything. :)

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

>Sure hope you went along with everything. :)

Haven't actually submitted moves yet. But I'm sure gonna go along. :)
I'll try to do it before I leave today.

(When I installed the new modem, my Dial-up Networking configurations came
out all wrong. But I think I know how to fix them now. It would sure be
nice to be able to see the results late Friday afternoon or evening, and
not have to wait until Monday morning!!!)

Tsar J

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>
>>Sure hope you went along with everything. :)
>
>Haven't actually submitted moves yet. But I'm sure gonna go along. :)
>I'll try to do it before I leave today.
>
>(When I installed the new modem, my Dial-up Networking configurations came
>out all wrong. But I think I know how to fix them now. It would sure be
>nice to be able to see the results late Friday afternoon or evening, and
>not have to wait until Monday morning!!!)


Damn!  I've been sitting here all afternoon hoping to see them NOW.  I'm not
going to have time tonight or tomorrow before I go away.

No chance of sending them in right away???

Cal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

I just sent them, as a matter of fact. But somebody else hasn't sent his. :-(


Remind me what your schedule is again, will you? When exactly will you be away?


Jamie

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>I just sent them, as a matter of fact. But somebody else hasn't sent his.
:-(
>
>
>Remind me what your schedule is again, will you? When exactly will you be
away?


Takes half an hour to process, no?

I'm playing ball tonight and going to work tomorrow.  I'll be leaving for up
north right after work and coming back either next Friday evening or
Saturday morning.

King Kal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

>Takes half an hour to process, no?

Yes, but the Judge says that one or more players have not submitted orders.
It says that in a LISTing.

>I'm playing ball tonight and going to work tomorrow.  I'll be leaving for up
>north right after work and coming back either next Friday evening or
>Saturday morning.

Hm. Ok.
That's going to be interesting, because I'm going away shortly after that,
myself. I'll be leaving on Tuesday the 23rd, I think. Anyway, Monday the
22nd will very likely be the last time I can check in before I go. And I'll
be away until about July 5th.

So unless the whole game is put on hold for a long time, we won't have much
time to discuss things in the coming moves. We won't have a *lot* to
coordinate, but I think we'll have at least a few things, and naturally
we'll want to be talking just to make sure our alliance doesn't get too
strained! And there's no doubt in my mind that Dave will be saying
everything he can think of to persuade me that you're going to win if I
don't stab you. (And vice versa to you, of course.) Assuming, that is, that
you have actually entered the moves you said you would, and that Dave
hasn't already smelled a rat and ordered Bul-Con! Yeesh. Can't think about
those things.

So anyway, it's kind of a shame our vacations are popping up at exactly the
wrong time.

Gee, maybe I shouldn't stab Dave after all....

:-) :-) :-)

No, no, I'm in now, I'm committed. Just remember that I have a lot more on
the line this move than you have!

I guess next week I will write you various things, and you'll just have to
read them when you return. Then we'll have a short while to finalize plans
for the following movement phase (the retreats and adjustments shouldn't
require much thought or talk). And then I'll leave you to fend off all the
propaganda Dave will be whipping up. Ugh, don't like that idea. You're
lucky, I think Dave is going to be away just about the same days you are,
so you won't have to worry about my being influenced by his powerful
propaganda apparatus.

Oh well! Hey, maybe we can talk on the phone while I'm away. When I go
away, I don't go as far away as you do!

Tsar J

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':


>Yes, but the Judge says that one or more players have not submitted orders.
>It says that in a LISTing.


Sigh.  All the more reason Hohn goes out next season...  John & Manus have
told me that their moves are in and I'm pretty sure Dave's are too...  That
leaves our habitual latecomer. :)

>>I'm playing ball tonight and going to work tomorrow.  I'll be leaving for
up
>>north right after work and coming back either next Friday evening or
>>Saturday morning.
>
>Hm. Ok.
>That's going to be interesting, because I'm going away shortly after that,
>myself. I'll be leaving on Tuesday the 23rd, I think. Anyway, Monday the
>22nd will very likely be the last time I can check in before I go. And I'll
>be away until about July 5th.


Seems like everyone is going to be away for at least a little while.  Man, I
won't even have a computer, let alone net access!  What am I going to do
with myself when I'm not working???  Probably have to listen to my mom talk
about what SHE did in the good old days before electricity...

>So unless the whole game is put on hold for a long time, we won't have much
>time to discuss things in the coming moves. We won't have a *lot* to
>coordinate, but I think we'll have at least a few things, and naturally
>we'll want to be talking just to make sure our alliance doesn't get too
>strained! And there's no doubt in my mind that Dave will be saying
>everything he can think of to persuade me that you're going to win if I
>don't stab you. (And vice versa to you, of course.) Assuming, that is, that
>you have actually entered the moves you said you would, and that Dave
>hasn't already smelled a rat and ordered Bul-Con! Yeesh. Can't think about
>those things.


Really!  We will have to coordinate fairly closely in the German area
against Austria, but my role there will minimal.

>No, no, I'm in now, I'm committed. Just remember that I have a lot more on
>the line this move than you have!


True enough, but we're in it together.  After this turn, no one else will
speak to us again!  (Aside from the propaganda you're talking about that
is...grin)

>I guess next week I will write you various things, and you'll just have to
>read them when you return. Then we'll have a short while to finalize plans
>for the following movement phase (the retreats and adjustments shouldn't
>require much thought or talk). And then I'll leave you to fend off all the
>propaganda Dave will be whipping up. Ugh, don't like that idea. You're
>lucky, I think Dave is going to be away just about the same days you are,
>so you won't have to worry about my being influenced by his powerful
>propaganda apparatus.


Frankly, I don't think there IS much they can say to make me turn around.
Our courses are pretty much established after this move.

>Oh well! Hey, maybe we can talk on the phone while I'm away. When I go
>away, I don't go as far away as you do!


I'm only going about 75 miles north of here (110 miles north of Toronto).
Not that far at all.

Anyway, talk to you after the moves which, if Hohn keeps his usual midnight
schedule, will be seen briefly tomorrow morning.

King Kal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

>Frankly, I don't think there IS much they can say to make me turn around.
>Our courses are pretty much established after this move.

Same here, actually. Still racks my nerves, though.

Tsar J

Message from France to Master in 'pouchtoo':

Rick,

I've been insanely busy this past week, and I haven't had time to
negotiate or even set up the board (first time this has happened in a
long time).  I've been working 16-hour days to close this multi-million
dollar deal.  And I'm pretty damn tired.

Hate to be a wet blanket, but having to sort through dozens and dozens
of broadcast messages about sports doesn't really help my time situation
or my mood.

Regarding the game, I think the odds are decent that Cal will stab me
this turn.  And I also think that Manus will lose another center.  And I
also believe the Chicken Little routine about the "imminent" win of the
Russian is a bit overstated.  Manus' mail on that subject sounded
amusingly overstated and had a major undercurrent of fear (fear of me
and Cal), IMO.  Maybe if Italy gets hit this turn, Austria will realize
that further advancement along that front by joint AR action _will_ make
the chances of Russian victory increase, and accordingly A might finally
move against R.  I don't know.

Anyway, for all of the above reasons, plus the fact that I'm cranky, I'm
going to MAR.  I don't like to leave games quietly, and I have a good
chance of having that happen if I go to WES.  I may not last much longer
anyway, since Cal will almost certainly be able to eliminate me next
year, but hey, them's the breaks.

There are probably some flaws in some of my reasoning, and Manus will
undoubtedly scream to high heaven and butcher me in the broadcast press,
but such is life.  I'm tired, and I'm going with it.

Hohn

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Okay, that's more than half an hour. What's going on?  The "list" command
still works so the Judge isn't down...

I'm konfused.

King Kal

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>Cal,
>
>I believe the moves will process in 30 minutes....
>
>Fingers crossed!


Excellent!  Who was the slowpoke?

King Kal

Build

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

FYI, here is what Jamie had to say about my retreat:

> I don't know what Cal will do, obviously. But I *hope* you will be needing
> Tunis covered!

Well, here's hoping Jamie gets surprised.

Manus

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

I'm back.

Let's see, I think I submitted my build order before I left. Yeah, I did.
But I set WAIT.

Anything interesting you want to tell me before I clear my WAIT flag?

Tsar J

Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

Hi, I'm back.

Yeah, I think your retreat was the best one for you. Did I not make that clear?

I don't know what Cal will do, obviously. But I *hope* you will be needing
Tunis covered!

Tsar J

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>I'm back.
>
>Let's see, I think I submitted my build order before I left. Yeah, I did.
>But I set WAIT.
>
>Anything interesting you want to tell me before I clear my WAIT flag?


The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!

But seriously, your fears about A/I double teaming me while you were away
were unfounded.  There was not one single note sent my way.  All is as it
was, even the observers are in a Valium stupor.

Cal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

Holy cow.

Ok, I'm clearing my WAIT flag then. Let's see if anyone else has one set.

Tsar J

Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>FYI, here is what Jamie had to say about my retreat:
>
>> I don't know what Cal will do, obviously. But I *hope* you will be
needing
>> Tunis covered!
>
>Well, here's hoping Jamie gets surprised.


He will.  He will.  

Cal

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

Whew.

My heart couldn't have taken another hour of adrenalin.

:-)

Now you can go on your vacation in happy peace and anticipation of a grand
endgame.


To the MasterPlan!!!!!


Tsar J

Message from Italy to England and France in

'pouchtoo':

WHAT??!?

WHY?!?!?

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Shit.

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

Well, I got screwed from the west.  I should have been building in Naples,
but I'm not.  So now I come to you offering to be a puppet.  What do you
say?  I wasn't having much success convincing you to join me, so how about
if I join you.  If you call off the dogs and let me have the centers I
have, I will do your bidding.  Count on me to be a loyal lackey if you
will just send your units somewhere else.

Reduced to this,
Manus

Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England and France in
>'pouchtoo':
>
>WHAT??!?


Well, that part's obvious... :)

>WHY?!?!?

I had NO idea that Hohn was going to move where he did (don't understand it
myself, quite frankly, and SURE as hell didn't anticipate it).

As for my part, that will be explained as the game works itself out.  Sorry
I can't be more specific than that.

Kordially,

King Kal

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

Oh, and by the way, was Smy-Con expected?  How about Sil-Gal?  And Ukr-Rum?

All part of the plan?

Nice plan.  (In combination with Bul-Gre and AEG-ION.)

We have common cause.  Like I've been telling you we would.
Get off me before you can't.  You have other problems now.

Mark my oft-repeated words, an A/I which is broken spells doom for both
parties.  I won't say I told you so (but I did).  Or at least I won't
say I told you so more than once per message from here on out.

Which isn't bad, because here on out doesn't look to be too much longer
now, does it.

Now, it's your turn to write to ME.

In a mood (can you tell),
Manus (who retracts his offer to puppet, but offers to go in with you
on a couple of burial plots)

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>
>Whew.
>
>My heart couldn't have taken another hour of adrenalin.
>
>:-)
>
>Now you can go on your vacation in happy peace and anticipation of a grand
>endgame.
>
>
>To the MasterPlan!!!!!


Um, have you looked at the results carefully yet?  Specifically around
Marseilles and Spain?

Shit.

King Kal

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

> >WHY?!?!?
>
> I had NO idea that Hohn was going to move where he did (don't understand it
> myself, quite frankly, and SURE as hell didn't anticipate it).
>
I owe him one for trying to stab me.  As for you....

> As for my part, that will be explained as the game works itself out.  Sorry
> I can't be more specific than that.
>
Don't bother.  I know how it will work itself out.  All hail the Czar.

Can you possibly  -- POSSIBLY! -- think otherwise?  If so, you have another
think coming.  The think I thought you thought.  The think I can't imagine
that you weren't thinking.

Do Svedanya (practicing),
Manus

Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

Actually, if Hohn hadn't surprised me with the Spa-Mar move, I'd have been
building three, you wouldn't have been the factor you are probably going to
be now (same for Dave) and Hohn would have been out next year.

Cal

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

> Actually, if Hohn hadn't surprised me with the Spa-Mar move, I'd have been
> building three, you wouldn't have been the factor you are probably going to
> be now (same for Dave) and Hohn would have been out next year.
>
Oh yeah.  That would have been just great for all of us, wouldn't it?

All of us named Jamie.  You think you can get on the same level as him by
screwing everyone and building three?  Not even close.  He'd eat you
for breakfast.  Dave is his midnight snack.

If Jamie convinced you to do this, I will bet any amount of money he also
convinced Hohn to move Spa-Mar.  Wanna lay odds?

I knew our dislodge of my fleet in Spring was one turn too early.  Jamie
saw exactly what was up and all Mr. Silver-tongue had to do is drop a
little sweet-sounding Russian in your ear and Hohn's ear and look what
happens.

Just look.

Manus (taking but a brief respite from the broadcast airwaves to handle
partial press)

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

>Um, have you looked at the results carefully yet?  Specifically around
>Marseilles and Spain?

Uh, no, I hadn't. I was so consumed with my own region.


>Shit.

Hm. Yeah.
Well, this would be just an awful time to say "I told you so" wouldn't it. :P.
I guess Hohn decided he'd be better off taking his chances with Manus. Or
that he wanted to make some impact on the game while he still could.

But is this really a big disaster, or what? You did take Holland. You have
no serious challenger on the whole western part of the board.

Let me take a good serious look. I hope you aren't going to panic and do
something you (or worse, *I*) will regret! :-)

Back to you shortly.

Tsar J

Message from Russia to Germany in 'pouchtoo':

Plot against *me*, will you?!?

:-) :-) :-)


See, I've learned my lesson: when preparing to stab John B., make good and
sure that at least two of his neighbors are really, really, truly going to
help. It took me a long time to be sure enough.

And don't leave any smouldering embers.


Auf wiedersehn, Kaiser Jeep. See you in Valhalla.

Tsar J

Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':


>
>> Actually, if Hohn hadn't surprised me with the Spa-Mar move, I'd have
been
>> building three, you wouldn't have been the factor you are probably going
to
>> be now (same for Dave) and Hohn would have been out next year.
>>
>Oh yeah.  That would have been just great for all of us, wouldn't it?


I am in this game to try to win, not provide "fun" for everyone else.

>All of us named Jamie.  You think you can get on the same level as him by
>screwing everyone and building three?  Not even close.  He'd eat you
>for breakfast.  Dave is his midnight snack.


I've got news for you.  I've been calling the strategy for E/R since Fall
1901.  And that includes the stab of Austria this turn.  Obviously Jamie
went along with the plans because they were in his best interests, but the
"master plan" was mine.

Before you say I was just dancing to the Russian piper, consider this:

If my moves had worked out as planned, I would have had Germany and France
out, you rendered ineffective, and Austria angry at Russia, NOT me.  If
anything, Dave might have been mad enough to throw the game my way.  Not the
worst of positions...

>If Jamie convinced you to do this, I will bet any amount of money he also
>convinced Hohn to move Spa-Mar.  Wanna lay odds?


Well, as I said above, it wasn't Jamie who convinced me.  Unfortunately,
that doesn't mean you're wrong that he tipped off Hohn.  If he did he
snookered me and I'll pay for it.  I doubt if there will be any coordinated
alliance against him (unless Dave is interested).  Your surprising (to me
anyways) snarly diatribes in the public press will preclude the likelihood
of you and I coordinating anything.

>I knew our dislodge of my fleet in Spring was one turn too early.  Jamie
>saw exactly what was up and all Mr. Silver-tongue had to do is drop a
>little sweet-sounding Russian in your ear and Hohn's ear and look what
>happens.


Not my ear.  And Hohn certainly isn't so easily swayed either.  If it's true
about Jamie tipping him off, it wasn't the "sweet talk" of it all, but
rather the chance to get me back that made Hohn take advantage of it.  You
are underestimating (if not downright insulting) anyone in this game if you
think simple "sweet talk" can influence anyone.

Cal

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

Ten thousand pardons, Kaiser Dave.
I know the sick feeling in my belly can't compare with the one in yours,
but I did feel all conflicted about the whole thing.

And I know you think that was a stupid time for me to stab. And I know you
aim to prove it.

But I also knew I didn't have much time left before you pulled the trigger.
I *had* to pull it first.

The game is young. King Kal may not be very happy about this. The worm may
yet turn.

Until then, see you on the battlefield,

Tsar J, the erstwhile ally

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':


>Hm. Yeah.

>
>Well, this would be just an awful time to say "I told you so" wouldn't it.
:P.
>I guess Hohn decided he'd be better off taking his chances with Manus. Or
>that he wanted to make some impact on the game while he still could.
>
>But is this really a big disaster, or what? You did take Holland. You have
>no serious challenger on the whole western part of the board.
>
>Let me take a good serious look. I hope you aren't going to panic and do
>something you (or worse, *I*) will regret! :-)


Panic, no.  But I do have some very legitimate questions/considferations.
All in all, this is probably a lousy time to be going away.

First off, you asked me to let you know if I have concerns about you getting
too far ahead?  Well, I got 'em big time.  In fact, without me getting those
builds, I see you as having little opposition should you decide to try for
18.

Oh, and Manus' little diatribe about you tipping Hohn off?  Well, I thought
of it before he did...  If you did, my hat's off to you cuz you snookered
me.  If you didn't, okay, but the big imbalance remains.

Needing some comments.

Cal

Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':

>Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'pouchtoo':
>
>You win some, you lose some.
>
>The Kaiser

Sorry guy.  If my moves had worked out, I'd have had Austria & Russia at war
with no anti-English sentiment anywhere on the rest of the board and three
builds.

I know what you mean by "win some, lose some".

Cheers and see you in a future game I hope.

Cal

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

First of all, I hope you don't take the tone of my messages as anything
more than in-game diplomacy.  I'm obviously annoyed by the turn of events,
but by your response, I am afraid that I may be personally offending you,
which I certainly don't wish to do.  You are playing well, and beating me,
and I'm just doing what I can to overcome it.  I'm not acting the
sore loser, just the aggreived party.  :-)

Now, to your mail:

> I am in this game to try to win, not provide "fun" for everyone else.
>
Fair enough.

> I've got news for you.  I've been calling the strategy for E/R since Fall
> 1901.  And that includes the stab of Austria this turn.  Obviously Jamie
> went along with the plans because they were in his best interests, but the
> "master plan" was mine.
>
Congratulations.  If you'd like, I can start giving you the credit in
my broadcasts.  What do you say?  :-)  My apologies for misplacing the
credit (am willing to rectify if you want the observers to appreciate
your play more; I do truly and honestly apologize).  In my opinion, though,
the game is still Jamie's to win, not yours, and so it was natural for
me to think that the stab benefitted Jamie, not you.

If you look at the board and come to agree with me that Jamie must be
stopped, I will gladly forgive and forget.  But if you think an E/R
will get you into a position to keep Jamie from getting 18, press on
and we shall see.  I suppose we both have different ideas of what we
shall see when that time comes.  I think we shall see Jamie covered
in roses.

> Well, as I said above, it wasn't Jamie who convinced me.  Unfortunately,
> that doesn't mean you're wrong that he tipped off Hohn.  If he did he
> snookered me and I'll pay for it.
>
As I say, I'm willing to lay odds on this one.

> I doubt if there will be any coordinated
> alliance against him (unless Dave is interested).  Your surprising (to me
> anyways) snarly diatribes in the public press will preclude the likelihood
> of you and I coordinating anything.
>
Not at all.  I do intend to keep them up, but in no way did I hope or
expect that they would stop us from reuniting.  In fact, just the opposite.
I was hoping to slap some faces to the danger, is all.  Your face for sure.
:-)  My apologies if my snarliness offends, but shall we let it APPEAR to
offend, and perhaps work to salvage something for both of us out of this
mess?

> about Jamie tipping him off, it wasn't the "sweet talk" of it all, but
> rather the chance to get me back that made Hohn take advantage of it.  You
> are underestimating (if not downright insulting) anyone in this game if you
> think simple "sweet talk" can influence anyone.
>
Once again, I apologize for the broadcasts if they simplify things.
They are satiric prose and meant to simplify things to put this game
in some kind of common perspective (mine :-).

Write back.  I truly hope I have not offended in any way.  Am willing to
broadcast any kind of message you would like to see in the way of apology
or explanation for my tirades.  Honest.

Manus

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

Greetings King,

Well, the Tsar has made his move.  It's obvious where I stand, and I think
it should be obvious that an E/R is not going to work out well for you.
Perhaps if you had gotten your southern builds it would have worked out.
It's annoying as I think we could have reduced it to the three of us and
had a good go round, but so it goes.

The question is, do you have any lingering doubts about the dangers of
the Tsar now or are we all set for an cooperative effort?  I would
definitely like to coordinate my army in Mun with your army in Bur.
I expect you'll need to do something about Hohn, but hopefully you can
put some pressure on Russia in the north immediately.

Shall we grind the Russian back into the dust and show him his folly?

Kaiser D

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

Ok, I've looked.

Wait, that broadcast from Manus:

I hope you don't think I really did rat on your Iberian intentions. That
would have been a very foolish thing for me to do.
Aha. Just got your mail.
No, I don't think that would have been a clever thing for me to do, at all.
Because now I am worried that I'll have no allies at all. Whereas if all
had gone as you'd planned, I'd have a nice comfortable war against Austria
and nothing else to worry about.
Ask Hohn. Maybe he'll lie and say I tipped him, but maybe he'll tell you
the truth.

So, yeah, ok. It's perfectly reasonable for you to be worried about my
being too far ahead now. In your immortal words, "shit".

Well, let's see.

It's true that you now face significant difficulties breaking into the
Mediterranean. However, you do have a guess next move, for Spa or Por.
Seems like Hohn is more likely to play Spa-Por, but he certainly could go
either way. (If you took Spain, France and Italy combined might have a
chance to retake it; but as a matter of fact, I think they wouldn't. Still,
it looks like a somewhat better chance for them. That's why I think Spa-Por
is more likely than, say, Spa S ITALIAN F someplace - Wes, or Spa-MAO.) If
you can get one of those, you're in much better shape.

Second, you do have a couple of armies to use. It's a long walk, but you
might get A Gas, A Bur before Italy (or France) actually enters Mar.

Third, I will play my hand *any* way you want. I can go really slow,
playing for position against Austria to make sure he doesn't start making
any progress, but refraining from overrunning him. I can work on running
around into Tyrolia, to try to assist your progress underneath Switzerland.
I can build F Sev, or A Sev, whichever you prefer. (Tactically, I think F
Sev is much better, just for the record.)
In other words, I'll avoid at all costs getting so far ahead that you'll
have to stab me.

Under no circumstances will I build in Stp, goes without saying (ok, maybe
it didn't go without saying, so I said it). I'll never move to Ruhr, so you
won't have to worry about protecting Holland. I won't move either northern
fleet to a threatening position.
In other words, I'll give you all the breathing room you want so you can
move whatever forces you need to move (and feel comfortable moving) to the
pressure point. If you want to leave a fleet behind up north, fine, no
problem.

I admit that I'm a little worried now, because I figure you must be at
least a little worried now. Can we salvage this? What will you have me do?

I always knew, right from the beginning, that a big challenge for me in
this game would be to avoid being the frightening leader. I thought I'd
managed to avoid it by a slow, conservative opening! And just when I
thought I could grab a couple of centers without being the big leader, this
happens. Oh well, that's Russia for you.

Tsar J

Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':

Dear Hohn,

Nice move.

I wonder what made you think of it. Crystal ball? Intuition?

The game is young. See you around.

Tsar J

Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

Dear Manus,

Stop slandering me. I have lawyers.

So, I take it this is not the development you've been waiting and hoping
for? Or is it???

I had the strong urge to tell you to hang on because Austria would be suing
for peace shortly. But of course, I couldn't.
Impressive tenaciousness, anyway. I expected no less.

Tsar J, now too much in the lead for his own good

Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':

I just re-read your message again, and gee, I'm even more afraid that I
really did have you worried that I was in some way personally offended
in a out-of-game way.  Please accept my apology.  I'm just saying "I
told you so" as loudly as I can.  As I say, you may still think I'm
wrong in saying so, but the broadcasts are my only avenue for saying
anything right now.  Friendless and abandoned, the poor Italian lashes
out.  :-)

I also feel bad for not giving you more credit for the E/R (which,
personally, I think merits you abandoning it immediately, but that is,
of course, up to you).  I hope my last broadcast, sent in response to
Jamie's broadcast, rectifies this at least a bit.

I am not wanting to close any doors with my self-satisfied broadcasts.
I truly am hoping to RE-OPEN them, and if you are reading into them that
the doors are locked between us, then my broadsides are failing miserably
in their mission.

Manus

Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

Okay, three free I told you so's.

I won't bother with the postmortem.  You said it was coming, I knew that
it would come some time.  However, I thought there was a good chance it
would not come this time as I thought, and still think, that it is too
soon.  In some ways, France may have actually saved you rather than
hurt you!  His bounce in Mar saved you a center, and cost England two
centers!  Had King Kal gotten those two I don't think there would have
been a chance to break up the ER.  With the current results however I
think we can turn England.

Obviously, I'm going anti-Russian and I'd like to do it with you.  I
propose an immediate cease fire.  Venice can revert to you whenever
it is appropriate, but I suggest that we not make that a priority and
instead see where it will do more good.

My pledge is simple, to work against Russia with you and hopefully
England.  I'll make no moves solely for Austria's benefit, and if we
end up with an AIE at the end (or AI?) that's more than acceptable to
me as the main goal is to humble Russia.

I'll not bother with defense in public, but I do think you are being a
touch overly harsh in your commentary.  England and I both had plans
in place and we both took some gambles.  I think Russia acted too soon
and I expect we can prove it.

As to the coming moves, my ideas at the moment are:

You retreat to Nap or Tun, doesn't really matter.
You move Pie - Tyr, Rom - Apu, double fleet attack on Ionian
I will convoy Apu to Alb, move Ven to Tri and head Tyr west, probably to Vie.
I have a couple of choices with Ionian:
    Gre - Ser, Ion - Gre
    Gre - Bul, Ion - Eas
I will not attack Aeg as I expect he may try to move his fleet there
and I want to be able to make a retreat into either Aeg or Smy after
you kick me out.

Eventually you may of course want to extract your pound of flesh.  Should
you do so, all I ask is that you wait until we've got Russia firmly on
the ropes.  I took a shot at the A/R and now that's dead, and I'd be happy
to carry the A/I all the way if you want.

Best regards,
Kaiser D

Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

> Dear Manus,
>
I *am* a dear, aren't I?  :-)

> Stop slandering me. I have lawyers.
>
Cal's a lawyer?  :-)

> So, I take it this is not the development you've been waiting and hoping
> for? Or is it???
>
Well, I'm trying to turn it into that.  Can't you tell.  I'm thinking
by yelling, "I told you so" as loudly as I can, maybe someone will listen.
Hasn't happened yet.  :-(

> I had the strong urge to tell you to hang on because Austria would be suing
> for peace shortly. But of course, I couldn't.
>
Don't feel bad.  I knew what was coming from you, and I was telling Dave
that every turn four or five times per turn.  I just didn't know what
Cal had planned.  That, I will probably never understand.  He takes
credit for the E/R (so I've apologized to him for labeling you the
mastermind), but frankly, if it's his plan, I think he must be remembering
it from a game when he played Russia or something.

> Impressive tenaciousness, anyway. I expected no less.
>
Aw, shucks.  I just like to play the game.

> Tsar J, now too much in the lead for his own good
>
Think about that I/R offer.....it at least has the benefit that no one
*else* will take it seriously  :-)

Manus

Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

> Ten thousand pardons, Kaiser Dave.
> I know the sick feeling in my belly can't compare with the one in yours,
> but I did feel all conflicted about the whole thing.
>
> And I know you think that was a stupid time for me to stab. And I know you
> aim to prove it.
>
> But I also knew I didn't have much time left before you pulled the trigger.
> I *had* to pull it first.
>
Well, the truth be told, there you are wrong.  I honestly had not committed
myself to pulling the trigger on you.  Of course I was stringing Kal along,
but you know through my typo that I was carefull not to make any concrete
promises.  I did think that you would wait a turn as I thought this was
too early, and I still think so.  As you say, I will now do my best to
prove that.

> The game is young. King Kal may not be very happy about this. The worm may
> yet turn.
>
I don't think he will be.  If you did engineer the Spa - Mar move then I'd
say it was a BIG mistake.  You'd have been far better off if England had
his two builds.  As it is it's obvious to him that he can't be an equal
partner so I expect you'll be all by yourself.

> Until then, see you on the battlefield,
>
Well yes, but you know it really isn't too late!  You have a nice jump in
the north.  Build your northern fleet, head for England and pull back in
the south and the AR can be reborn, but the opportunity will not be there
long.

Kaiser D

P.S. I'll be seeing you soon for lunch in Moscow, either at the ceremony
crowning us joint kings, or as the conqueror taking possession, your
choice!

Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

> Okay, three free I told you so's.
>
Cool!  How much for the others?  I may want to buy 'em by the dozen.  :-)

Won't tackle your whole mail yet (must meet wife for lunch), but will
cover these two points:

> I'll not bother with defense in public, but I do think you are being a
> touch overly harsh in your commentary.
>
Maybe.  But it's real real fun.  And maybe it's starting to work.  Don't
take any offense at it; it's all satire.

> Eventually you may of course want to extract your pound of flesh.
>
Not even in my long term plans.  I'm the A/I guy, remember?  :-)

England needs turning, and I need you to do it.  I have corresponded
with him at least five times since the moves so far (five each!) but
I am not yet clear on whether he thinks he must ditch the E/R or not.
Especially since I'm out to lunch and then on on-site meetings (granting
the pouchtoo world a much afternoon of silence :-), I need you to take
up the mantle of convincing Cal he has to turn.  Fair warning, though,
he's snaky, because I thought sure he was with me going anti-R last turn
and we found out otherwise.  We need to know for sure or we'll both die.

Gotta run (dammit, right when I actually had something strategic and
tactical to do rather than ranting),
Manus

Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

I'm not ignoring your last note.  I just have a lot of thinking to do, of
course.

Would you be willing to hand over Den & Kie as well as demilitarizing the
north?  That way, you wouldn't have to lose momentum versus Austria by
fighting a holding action and I'd be less concerned about you getting to 18.

I'll get back to you with more later.

Cal

Message from Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':

>>Sorry guy.

No problem.

>>If my moves had worked out, I'd have had Austria & Russia at war with no anti-English sentiment anywhere on the rest of the board and three builds.


You mean if they had worked out as you expected this turn? If so,
interesting. I'd like to know how that would have happened. It seems to
say the Russkie did you wrong too.

>>I know what you mean by "win some, lose some".

Yes, and things looked so promising there for a while.

>>Cheers and see you in a future game I hope.

No doubt. I'll order up a list to see what's starting.

BTW, I agree with Manus. Jamie will win now. I don't even think he's
stoppable.

The Former Kaiser of a Former Country

Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

>My satiric tirades may be giving you more credit than you deserve, but I
>think the game is yours.

They are giving me more 'credit' than I deserve, yes. There are some things
I still can't/won't tell you, but you have somewhat misjudged the
situation. Of course, reality doesn't matter, does it? Only the
*perception* of history matters. Didn't someone famous once say that?
Orwell? You are trying to establish your own Ministry of Truth. Well, go
for it!

If the game is mine, then gee, it's all worked out for the best, hasn't it?
:-) But do tell me how to win from here. My endgame must be getting rusty.

>  Despite anything else, I think Spa-Mar was yours,
>and you have my congratulations on engineering an unusable build for Hohn.
>One less enemy force, eh?  Nice.

I'm afraid you have forgotten one thing. You have forgotten that Hohn is
The Great Hohn Cho. He needs no ratty help from the likes of me, not even
wearing the hat of the one-center puppet.
Go ahead, ask him.

>Thanks for keeping one of my centers for me, though.  Honestly.

I wish I could take credit for that. I'm pleased to see it!

>  Perhaps
>this could be a sign of friendship?  Interested in an I/R, perhaps?  I don't
>have much to offer, but I do have the "ear of the public," you know.
>
>:-)

Don't smile when you say that, pardner.
Believe me, I understand the situation. I think the time may very well come
when I need your help badly. I won't be too proud to ask for it.


>Not a sore loser, but very much enjoying playing the "I told you so!"
>aggreived party, and hope everyone else is enjoying the show,

That's always enjoyable. You're certainly milking it for all it's worth!
Why don't you call Steve and tell him to join the fun? I feel there are
certain small fragments of my integrity that have not yet been called into
question.

Ooh, more from you. Good, because nobody else will talk to me now. :-)


>Cal's a lawyer?  :-)

Nooo, but.... (think about it)


>Think about that I/R offer.....it at least has the benefit that no one
>*else* will take it seriously  :-)

Hey, *any* time. Any time you want to take Venice, Greece, anything, I will
do everything I can to assist you.

Tsar J

Message from Germany to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

My mistake was not to plot against you enough.

Thanks for making it quick.

The Former Kaiser of a Former Country

Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

I'm not ignoring your note but rather I have LOTS of thinking or possibly
rethinking to do.

For the record, if my moves HAD been successful, I would have not only had
the three builds, but also would have essentially removed Hohn & Manus from
play.  Add to that you having more immediate concerns (Russian armies) than
stopping me, I would have been sitting pretty.

I'll get back to you.  I need time to think and fix my canoe... :)

Cal

Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':

[first part clipped]

I knew you'd say that.

>I don't think he will be.  If you did engineer the Spa - Mar move then I'd
>say it was a BIG mistake.  You'd have been far better off if England had
>his two builds.  As it is it's obvious to him that he can't be an equal
>partner so I expect you'll be all by yourself.

Actually, I can't argue with you there. But in fact, you'll be glad to
know, I did not engineer that move of Hohn's.
What everybody keeps forgetting is that that move was made by Hohn Cho, one
of the deadliest Diplomats ever to walk the map! He doesn't need any bears
whispering in his ear.


>Well yes, but you know it really isn't too late!  You have a nice jump in
>the north.  Build your northern fleet, head for England and pull back in
>the south and the AR can be reborn, but the opportunity will not be there
>long.

Yeah, you had to say that too.
I wish it could be so. But I will not build in Stp. Contrary to popular
belief, there is no way in hell I can win on my own now. I have to hope
that King Kal will give me a chance. Somehow, I think F Stp would
discourage him.


>P.S. I'll be seeing you soon for lunch in Moscow, either at the ceremony
>crowning us joint kings, or as the conqueror taking possession, your
>choice!

Blini are on me, in any case.

Tsar J

Message from England to Germany in 'pouchtoo':

>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England in 'pouchtoo':


>>>If my moves had worked out, I'd have had Austria & Russia at war with no
anti-English sentiment anywhere on the rest of the board and three builds.
>
>You mean if they had worked out as you expected this turn? If so,
>interesting. I'd like to know how that would have happened. It seems to
>say the Russkie did you wrong too.


Nah, the moves were coordinated up north as expected.  He only REALLY did me
wrong if Manus is correct about him tipping off Hohn.

As for how things were supposed to go, I better save that for the end game
statement.

>BTW, I agree with Manus. Jamie will win now. I don't even think he's
>stoppable.


Perhaps, but I sure hope you're wrong. :)

Cal

Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':

Hey, Jamie.  Geez, I am now almost sorry I have been calling for a jihad
against you.  Honest, I'm just playin' the game.  Seems like you might
have thought I was taking personal offense.  It's all in fun, and if I
get ANYthing out of my tirades, I'll be happy.  And I definitely count an
I/R as one of the best things I could get.

As it happens, I must leave the office all afternoon now.  Dammit.

Manus

Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':

> I'm not ignoring your note but rather I have LOTS of thinking or possibly
> rethinking to do.
>
Yes, don't we all (<:

> For the record, if my moves HAD been successful, I would have not only had
> the three builds, but also would have essentially removed Hohn & Manus from
> play.  Add to that you having more immediate concerns (Russian armies) than
> stopping me, I would have been sitting pretty.
>
I don't deny that.  I knew there was a danger of this, I thought I'd
kept my fences up well enough to prevent it happening.  Oh well.

> I'll get back to you.  I need time to think and fix my canoe... :)
>

I await.  I think there is going to be long gap anyway.  You'll be gone
next week and I'll be gone until Wed of the week afterwards.  I don't
have email on the weekends, so if do want a reply before then, please
send me something before 6:00 EST today.

Kaiser D

Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':

>I'm not ignoring your last note.  I just have a lot of thinking to do, of
>course.

Ok.
But we'd better talk a little more before the end of the day, or it's going
to be a disaster. :-(

>Would you be willing to hand over Den & Kie as well as demilitarizing the
>north?

!!!!!

Is that really necessary? You want me to sacrifice my only son, too? Hey,
Absalom, get over here....

>That way, you wouldn't have to lose momentum versus Austria by
>fighting a holding action and I'd be less concerned about you getting to 18.

I have twelve centers (ok, centres, I'm trying to stay on your good side).
It's not as though I had 16.

I don't believe I am anywhere near the threat to win that Manus is
imagining. I am certainly the leader. I am certainly much more of a leader
than I ever wanted to be. But I don't believe I can win alone, and I am
absolutely not going to try. Kaiser Dave has just suggested that I could
build F Stp and A Mos, and then give him back Bulgaria, and change the
whole complexion of the game. But I told him it's out of the question.

I'm going to play the next season (seasons -- winter and spring) on the
assumption that we are still allies and that you will need me to move
slowly and carefully and maybe give you help if you want it and I can do
it. If your moves confirm the assumption, great. Otherwise,
doubleplusungreat. I figure I can afford to make the assumption. If I'm
wrong and you shift north, , I'll just have to deal with it then
(and Dave will be laughing! he'd have Italy *wide* open and me with very
thing defenses!).

What I'd like to do is to take just one more bite of Austria. That will
leave him unable to retaliate (I think -- the position is more complicated
than I realized, but I believe I can play very safely if I make him remove
a unit). I could then play practically any way you wanted me to. I hate to
give up centers, but I could give you something each time I took things
>from Austria. (I'd want to take them back once you started getting stuff
>from Italy and France!) Or I could just wait. I like that, as you may have
noticed. I think it's an underrated strategy.

Ok, if you can show me that I'm really too much of a threat, then I guess I
have to give you whatever you demand. But I don't think it's true.

I thought you were impervious to propaganda.

Tsar J

Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':

Only playing the game, myself, Manus. You remember when Sultan Steve
lambasted me. You remember that I wasn't exactly offended!

R/I, any time, still. Say the word. Hell, I'll take R/anybody, first offer
accepted!
Hm, better write to Hohn....

We can discuss things next week. Some kind of hiatus, because both Cal and
Dave will be away. Wow, so that leaves just you me and Hohn Cho! Small
world. Interesting possibility. Anything you can put together, anything,
I'll go for it.

Tsar J





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Last updated on Wed, July 21, 1999.