| Press for Fall of 1907 in ruffians |
Movement
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
> Next Spring, we might want to consider your allowing my F Kiel-Den.
>Then, in the Fall, you could support yourself back in, and I could retreat
>the fleet otb. It
>would solve our problem with the needless German Fleet!
Yes, that would be a good plan. Do you think we will manage to run over to
the other side of stalemateline before A/I/R stops us?
/Christian
Message from England to France in
'ruffians':
>Broadcast message from [email protected] as France in 'ruffians':
Hi there. I didn't realize it was you playing France. You are the same
[email protected] as in RUSH, aren't you? :-)
/Christian
Broadcast message from England in
'ruffians':
>Broadcast message from [email protected] as Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ruffians':
>
>> > Broadcast message from [email protected] as France in 'ruffians':
>> >
>> > > England: Fleet Denmark -> Kiel. (*bounce*)
>> >
>> > damn. too bad that didn't work in a spring move, it would have been
>> > devastating. Nevertheless there is time to outguess Germany still for
>the
>> > fall, plus England will gain two builds minimum this year, which will
>make
>> > short work of the German position in 1908/09. Sail on, England, Sail
>on!
>>
>> Your press is more cutesy than it is pathetic, but only barely. Hardly
>worthy
>> of a
>> player of your stature, I must say.... Paul
>
>Now, now, Paul, you're starting to sound nervous... d;-})
>
>Cal
Well, since everyone is broadcasting...damn it didn't work this time
either. I have to try again in the fall. Paul - could you please move out
of Kie?
/Christian
Broadcast message from England in
'ruffians':
>he should be! With Russia having built a unit, and England not only up +2
>this coming winter, he should re-evaluate just how powerful a minor amount
>of press can be. Silence from Germany, Proposition from England, which one
>should I take? hmm, a no-brainer.
*laugh*
/Christian
Message from England to Italy in
'ruffians':
>Hej!
>
>S� vad h�nder?
>Inte beh�ver du v�l hj�lpa Tyskland till Mar va?!
Det finns det v�l ingen orsak att g�ra. Sannolikt kommer jag "r�ka" st�dja
fel enhet in i Mar. :-)
Har du �:s st�d f�r att h�lla Tunis?
/Dreyer
Message from France to England in 'ruffians':
> Hi there. I didn't realize it was you playing France. You are the same
> [email protected] as in RUSH, aren't you? :-)
yes, although I figured you knew this all along. I figured I owed you a
favour for the elimination in RUSH--you will end up in SPA+POR eventually
anyway, but this way it gives you a better shot at hitting Germany. With
Chris Martin playing Austria, I hope the time saved will be useful.
Broadcast message from France in 'ruffians':
> > Silence from Germany, Proposition from England, which one
> >should I take? hmm, a no-brainer.
>
> *laugh*
>
> /Christian
oops, you mean I wasn't supposed to publically acknowledge your plan that I
give you two quick builds so that you could mount an attack on Germany?
damnation, Enigma strikes again.
Message from Italy to England in 'ruffians':
> Det finns det v�l ingen orsak att g�ra. Sannolikt kommer jag "r�ka" st�dja
> fel enhet in i Mar. :-)
>
Bra, precis vad jag ville h�ra! *ler*
> Har du �:s st�d f�r att h�lla Tunis?
>
Det vet jag inte...
Och sen? Vad skall h�nda i forts�ttningen?
> /Dreyer
Mvh Roland
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as England in
> 'ruffians':
>
> >Broadcast message from [email protected] as Russia in 'ruffians':
> >
> >> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ruffians':
> >
> >> > Broadcast message from [email protected] as France in 'ruffians':
> >> >
> >> > > England: Fleet Denmark -> Kiel. (*bounce*)
> >> >
> >> > damn. too bad that didn't work in a spring move, it would have been
> >> > devastating. Nevertheless there is time to outguess Germany still for
> >the
> >> > fall, plus England will gain two builds minimum this year, which will
> >make
> >> > short work of the German position in 1908/09. Sail on, England, Sail
> >on!
> >>
> >> Your press is more cutesy than it is pathetic, but only barely. Hardly
> >worthy
> >> of a
> >> player of your stature, I must say.... Paul
> >
> >Now, now, Paul, you're starting to sound nervous... d;-})
> >
> >Cal
>
> Well, since everyone is broadcasting...damn it didn't work this time
> either. I have to try again in the fall. Paul - could you please move out
> of Kie?
>
> /Christian
Oh, MUST I? (sigh)
Paul
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
[email protected] wrote:
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> 'ruffians':
>
> > Next Spring, we might want to consider your allowing my F Kiel-Den.
> >Then, in the Fall, you could support yourself back in, and I could retreat
> >the fleet otb. It
> >would solve our problem with the needless German Fleet!
>
> Yes, that would be a good plan. Do you think we will manage to run over to
> the other side of stalemateline before A/I/R stops us?
>
> /Christian
If you can get some fleets into the Med after F/I are eliminated (or at least
badly
weakened this turn), and if I can hold on against Austria, we can possibly
join with Turkey to turn the tide against Austria and his minions.
Broadcast message from England in
'ruffians':
>> > Silence from Germany, Proposition from England, which one
>> >should I take? hmm, a no-brainer.
>>
>> *laugh*
>>
>> /Christian
>
>
>oops, you mean I wasn't supposed to publically acknowledge your plan that I
>give you two quick builds so that you could mount an attack on Germany?
>
Even if I had contemplated a co-operation with you I had abandoned all
plans by now! :-)
/Christian
Message from England to Italy in
'ruffians':
>> Har du �:s st�d f�r att h�lla Tunis?
>>
>Det vet jag inte...
>
>Och sen? Vad skall h�nda i forts�ttningen?
Bygga saker, flytta mot G. Annars inget speciallt. Synd att R skyddar
nord-fronten, nu m�ste jag avdela enheter dit.
/Dreyer
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
>If you can get some fleets into the Med after F/I are eliminated (or at least
>badly
>weakened this turn), and if I can hold on against Austria, we can possibly
>join with Turkey to turn the tide against Austria and his minions.
Seems allright to me. I am moving F Eng-MAO. Let�s get it going!
/Christian
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
By the way, I was thinking: If I tell Austria I will stab you, will he stab
Italy or Russia? Should I try it?
/Christian
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
Should I stab Germany, what would you do?
/Chris
Message from Italy to England in 'ruffians':
> Bygga saker, flytta mot G. Annars inget speciallt. Synd att R skyddar
> nord-fronten, nu m�ste jag avdela enheter dit.
>
L�ter bra, f�r kommer du in i medelhavet s� m�ste jag bek�mpa dig f�rst
och fr�mst. Inte G och A.
> /Dreyer
>
Mvh Roland
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> 'ruffians':
>
> By the way, I was thinking: If I tell Austria I will stab you, will he stab
> Italy or Russia? Should I try it?
>
> /Christian
Telling him is one thing; doing it is another! If you want to try it as a
"trick", to get
Austria to jump after I or R, no problem. If you really DO attack me, you lose
time
as my defense vs. Austria crumbles in the centerboard.
My truest defense against your stabbing me is demonstrating that I really
can hold Austria off in the center, while you finish off France and prepare to
move
fleets into the Med.
As I see it, the likeliest Austrian moves are A Gal-Sil supported by
Russian
A War; A Boh-Mun supported by A Tyr; A Pie-S-Italian A Mar.
My best possible defense against these moves is to order A Sil-Boh
supported
by A Mun; A Bur-S-A Mun; A Gas-Mar supported by your F Spa(sc); A Bel-Ruh;
F Kie-Ber.
If you don't move to Kie, I wind up in good shape to defend my homeland
while
still being no threat to you. Austria still has only two units (Sil and Tyr)
with which to attack Mun--not enough for him to break through.
Meanwhile, you move F Mao-Por and F Eng-Mao; you hold in Den while trying
a shot at StP.
In S'08, A Ruhr supports Mun while I finally move A Gas-Mar with support
from Bur and Spa! The Italian A Mar is annihilated. Ber is covered as the
Fleet
holds there. A Mun supports A Boh-Tyr to possibly surprise Austria again.
Meanwhile, you move F Edi-Nwg, F Mao-Wes and F Por-Mao-- setting yourself
up to advance on both fronts.
Yes, I am leaving myself wide open to your stabbing me in Bre or Bel or
Kie;
if I am to give an honest defense vs. Austria, I have to trust you 100% My
only
defense against your stab is that I really am being useful in holding A/R back
in the
vital centerboard area. I cannot be so useful once you stab for my dots.
What do you say? Paul
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
[email protected] wrote:
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as England in
> 'ruffians':
>
> >> > Silence from Germany, Proposition from England, which one
> >> >should I take? hmm, a no-brainer.
> >>
> >> *laugh*
> >>
> >> /Christian
> >
> >
> >oops, you mean I wasn't supposed to publically acknowledge your plan that I
> >give you two quick builds so that you could mount an attack on Germany?
> >
>
> Even if I had contemplated a co-operation with you I had abandoned all
> plans by now! :-)
>
> /Christian
Why should he be honest with France anyway, when it is road kill? --Paul
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
/Chris,
Hmm. Jump for joy?
Seriously. It would really change the dynamic, wouldn't it?
I guess I would be in favor of such a move. How could I help?
Chris
Message from Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal:
Yeah, I see it now. Tit for tat: you take in Turkey, and you
support Austria into
Sil.
But will England REALLY make things as easy for you guys as France
would
like? Somehow, I doubt it!
Paul
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
>
>Telling him is one thing; doing it is another! If you want to try it as a
>"trick", to get Austria to jump after I or R, no problem. If you really
DO attack me, you lose
>time as my defense vs. Austria crumbles in the centerboard.
I don't even consider stabbing you. I think you and I can force the
stalemateline! If I did stabb you Austria would win 18. That�s what
happened when Toby Harris was playing Austria and I was playing England in
WDC in Gothenburg. I don't wanna see that happening to my England again!!!
I have sent a little message to Chris telling him I might stab you.
Hopefully he does anything against I or R.
> My best possible defense against these moves is to order A Sil-Boh
>supported
>by A Mun; A Bur-S-A Mun; A Gas-Mar supported by your F Spa(sc); A Bel-Ruh;
>F Kie-Ber.
> If you don't move to Kie, I wind up in good shape to defend my homeland
>while still being no threat to you. Austria still has only two units (Sil
and Tyr)
>with which to attack Mun--not enough for him to break through.
Ok, I can stop moving to Kiel. However, this move makes it impossible for
us to disband your fleet next fall. Isn't i better if you just build an
army berlin for the sc in Mar?
Well, I�ll hold in Denmark and leave the decision up to you! Don't worry,
as I have described above, I have stabbed Germany too many times in a
situation like this!
/Christian
***********************************************************************
Christian Dreyer och Matilda Svensson
Trollebergsv�gen 91B
SE-227 31 Lund
SK�NE
SU�DE
Ph. +46 (0)46 - 15 15 23
Pop-konto: [email protected]
***********************************************************************
Message from England to Italy in
'ruffians':
>L�ter bra, f�r kommer du in i medelhavet s� m�ste jag bek�mpa dig f�rst
>och fr�mst. Inte G och A.
Om du inte tror att A hj�lper dig att h�lla Tunis kanske f�ljande verkar
kul...
A Rom-Ven
F TRN-Rom
D� g�r lilla A ner tv� centers...Kan ju inte vara fel...eller?N�sta drag
kan jag ge dig st�d f�r hold i Marseilles eftersom f�rst�llningen f�r G d�
�r on�dig...
/Christian
Message from England to France in
'ruffians':
>yes, although I figured you knew this all along. I figured I owed you a
>favour for the elimination in RUSH--you will end up in SPA+POR eventually
>anyway, but this way it gives you a better shot at hitting Germany. With
>Chris Martin playing Austria, I hope the time saved will be useful.
No I didn't realize. Anyway, what is Italy and Austria saying?
Will you get Tunis? If not, you could consider moving F Wes any other
place, such that might incidentally cut a support.
Or, i could move Mao-Wes if you move Wes-TRN.
/Christian
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
>Seriously. It would really change the dynamic, wouldn't it?
I think that would enable us (you and me) to have a two-way. The problem
would be how to prevent the other from getting a solo, wich we both of
course would want...Any thoughts? Russia is easily devided and stalemated
between us, but the rest?
/Chris
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Hej Cal,
I will attack StP this turn. If you let me in I can go no further. I will
put my fleet there and will concentrate on moving against Germany.The
problem is that I am a bit obsessed with having StP as England, to secure
my back. So if you are willing to let my fleet in and use your armies for
something else then I don't have to mount three or four units around StP
just to get it. That way we both get what we want, I get StP and you get me
into Germanys back. If you defend StP, noone gets what we want. You loose
StP eventually and you don't get me into Germanys back. This is of course
just a thought, but you might wanna consider it, as cunning as you have
shown to be so far in the game.
Let me know your thoughts!
/Christian
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
"Paul G. Rauterberg" wrote:
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> > 'ruffians':
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > >
> > >Telling him is one thing; doing it is another! If you want to try it as a
> > >"trick", to get Austria to jump after I or R, no problem. If you really
> > DO attack me, you lose
> > >time as my defense vs. Austria crumbles in the centerboard.
> > I don't even consider stabbing you. I think you and I can force the
> > stalemateline! If I did stabb you Austria would win 18. That�s what
> > happened when Toby Harris was playing Austria and I was playing England in
> > WDC in Gothenburg. I don't wanna see that happening to my England again!!!
> > I have sent a little message to Chris telling him I might stab you.
I am going to trust you. No problem!
>
> >
> > > My best possible defense against these moves is to order A Sil-Boh
> > supported by A Mun, A Bur-S-A Mun, A Bel-Ruh, F Kie-Ber, A Bre H and Army
> > Gas-Mar supported by your F Spa(sc).
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> > Ok, I can stop moving to Kiel. However, this move makes it impossible for
> > us to disband your fleet next fall. Isn't i better if you just build an
> > army berlin for the sc in Mar?
>
> Alas, if I use A Bur to support A Mun this Fall I may not have the strength to
> take Mar (assuming Aust A Pie supports Mar again). I can only try to be patient
> and
> take it next gameyear after my A Ruhr can support Mun, freeing A Bur to join your
>
> F Spain in supporting Gas-Mar. It IS a good idea to try Gas-Mar this Fall,
> though:
> if Italian A Mar orders support for French F Wes-Spa it will be cut and you'll
> keep
> Spain.
>
> >
> >
> > Well, I�ll hold in Denmark and leave the decision up to you! Don't worry,
> > as I have described above, I have stabbed Germany too many times in a
> > situation like this!
>
> I can hold in Kie one more turn, but if Austria moves to Sil AND I fail to pick
> up
> Mar, I must move F Kie to cover Ber in S'08. Much as I would like to get the
> fleet
> otb and replaced with an army, defending Ber will have to come first in 1908.
> Much as I would love to use A Bur to provide a second support for Gas-Mar
> this Fall, I simply cannot afford to risk losing Mun. After I have an army in
> Ruhr,
> Bur will be freed to help in the attack on Marseilles!
>
> --Paul
>
> >
> >
> > /Christian
> >
> > ***********************************************************************
> > Christian Dreyer och Matilda Svensson
> > Trollebergsv�gen 91B
> > SE-227 31 Lund
> > SK�NE
> > SU�DE
> > Ph. +46 (0)46 - 15 15 23
> > Pop-konto: [email protected]
> > ***********************************************************************
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Chris,
Hmm. A 2 way would certainly be a dynamic finish. A little brushing up
shows a number of options, revolving around StPete/Berlin/Munich/Tunis.
I like the Stalemate line where the west holds StP, and Germany, and the
East holds Tunis and Italy. It seems a reasonable division of forces at
this point.
If you were to attack Germany, I would be able to turn my full attention to
nailing down Turkey, and then finishing off Italy and Russia. I am willing
to go for it if you are. The article I am refrencing for stalemate lines is
this:
http://www.spoff.demon.co.uk/articles/stalemate.htm
A bit dry, but the info is there.
This will be a good opportunity to go for it for you. It would be a pretty
good one for me too!
Chris
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
> 'ruffians':
>
> I will attack StP this turn. If you let me in I can go no further. I will
> put my fleet there and will concentrate on moving against Germany.The
> problem is that I am a bit obsessed with having StP as England, to secure
> my back. So if you are willing to let my fleet in and use your armies for
> something else then I don't have to mount three or four units around StP
> just to get it. That way we both get what we want, I get StP and you get
me
> into Germanys back. If you defend StP, noone gets what we want. You loose
> StP eventually and you don't get me into Germanys back. This is of course
> just a thought, but you might wanna consider it, as cunning as you have
> shown to be so far in the game.
>
> Let me know your thoughts!
My thoughts? Well, I once heard that over 33% of e-mail traffic throughout
the world consists of people sending jokes to one another. How nice to see
you're adding to the total... d;-})
How can you seriously tell me that the price of your attacking Germany is
one of my home centres? I don' care how obsessed you may be. There are
still eight German centres that you could be feasting on as opposed to my
one. Yeah, you'd eventually get St Pete, but is it worth it? I'm not as
stupid as you and Paul think I am. If I let you get a foothold up north,
you and he would steamroll me right out of the game.
C'mon, make me an intelligent offer. If we attack Germany, you get at least
five centres out of the deal, probably six and there's NO WAY I can build
fleets fast enough up north to be a threat to you. Those German centres
would guarantee your place in any draw.
Time to get serious.
Cal
Message from Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Cal:
> Yeah, I see it now. Tit for tat: you take in Turkey, and you
> support Austria into
> Sil.
You've got to get more sleep. Where do you see me supporting Austria to
Silesia? I supported him to Galicia because he asked me to and because it
seemed the best way to keep the peace with him. And if you try to tell me I
violated the "spirit" of OUR agreement, I fail to see how supporting Austria
to GALICIA was any worse than your supporting yourself to Silesia last turn.
I did EXACTLY what I told you I was going to do. I defended myself against
England while trying to appease Austria AND you. If you don't like it,
that's your problem. Would you sooner I DID attack you?
> But will England REALLY make things as easy for you guys as France
> would
> like? Somehow, I doubt it!
Me too. I don't think England has a clue as to what he is trying to
accomplish in this game. Me, I'm just trying to stay alive and to be in a
position to grow if the opportunity presents itself. And at least I'm being
honest about it.
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Ok, Question time -- defend St Pete, or defend Sev? England can't be kicked
out of StPete -- Turkey can be kicked out of Sev.
Tough call -- it means I go into Ukraine, so that he can be kicked out next
season. Even then, he can cut Moscow's support for StPete.
What do you think?
Chris
Message from Austria to Italy in 'ruffians':
Roland
Yes, I will support you into Tunis. This is well-nigh disastrous for us.
England will probably pause to take Portugal, but then his fleets will be
ready to roll. It looks like I really did make the right decision in
letting you take Rome.
Best,
Chris
Message from France to England in 'ruffians':
> Will you get Tunis? If not, you could consider moving F Wes any other
> place, such that might incidentally cut a support.
>
> Or, i could move Mao-Wes if you move Wes-TRN.
I think you should consider taking Spain and Portugal this year. Italy will
likely be dislodged from Marseilles this next season and supposedly I am to
support him from Marseilles to Spain. I haven not decided If I'm gonna do
that yet, but it seems to me that you should lock down POR and SPA and get
those builds on the table--you may need them in another direction. With the
unsuccessful attack on Kiel, you will need several more units in the area to
get any further in that direction, and if you are going to attack Russia you
will need units there to do it. What I'm trying to do is help you get into
the key SPA/POR area so that you can lock that section of the stalemate line
down--your worst case scenario would then be a E/A/R 3way.
Message from Austria to Italy in 'ruffians':
Roland -- I am looking at the map, and it looks like we are going to lose
Marsaille this turn -- England will probably support Germany in, to keep him
from worrying about this much publicized stab.
Would you do me a favor? If you attack Burgundy, I can take Munich by
force, and make up for the loss of Rome.
What do you think?
Chris
Message from Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
>
>
>
> I did EXACTLY what I told you I was going to do. I defended myself against
> England while trying to appease Austria AND you. If you don't like it,
> that's your problem. Would you sooner I DID attack you?
Cal, I'm sorry if I misread the support you gave to Austria's move to Gal. It's
just
that I could make no other sense out his urgency in reaching Gal unless it was
pointed at Sil: what would he have said-- "I want to police the neutral zone
between us, so please support me to Gal"? Why didn't he say "I want to keep the
Hun's A Sil out of Gal, so let's bounce over that province and keep it clear"?
No, please DON'T take it as an invitation on my part to support his
Gal-Sil. If
he isn't asking for that support, he's probably just anxious to cut my A Sil's
support
for Mun (forcing me to make a decision between having A Bur support Mun or just
having Bur support a move to Mar). I'm sure that you can see why I might not
like the idea of having to support Mun all the time, especially with two units
if he
takes Sil! Aren't you grumbling about having to choose between supporting StP
or
Sev this Fall? Wouldn't you grumble louder if England had three units bordering
StP?
> > But will England REALLY make things as easy for you guys as France
> > would
> > like? Somehow, I doubt it!
>
> Me too. I don't think England has a clue as to what he is trying to
> accomplish in this game. Me, I'm just trying to stay alive and to be in a
> position to grow if the opportunity presents itself. And at least I'm being
> honest about it.
Who's not being honest about those same goals? England? Austria? They are the
ones who have chances for actual growth and offensive positioning.... Evidently
England promised France that he would stab Germany if France handed Iberia over
without a fight. Apparently France was so desperate to believe that I could be
"punished" for successfully stabbing him that he was willing to exit the game
and
simply watch it happen (or not) as an observer.
The point which I am making to England, and hopefully to you as well, is
that
Germany is more useful to you both alive than dead; holding out at centerboard,
I
can stifle/slow Austrian growth in this vital area. I can "keep him busy" with
his futile massing of units in my direction, as long as neither you nor England
choose to
give him a nudge "over the hill".
I am stating this as unambiguously as I possibly can.
Cool? --Paul
Message from Italy to England in 'ruffians':
> Om du inte tror att A hj�lper dig att h�lla Tunis kanske f�ljande verkar
> kul...
>
> A Rom-Ven
> F TRN-Rom
>
> D� g�r lilla A ner tv� centers...Kan ju inte vara fel...eller?
Jag vet... funderar p� det. Vi f�r se vad han s�ger.
>N�sta drag
> kan jag ge dig st�d f�r hold i Marseilles eftersom f�rst�llningen f�r G d�
> �r on�dig...
>
J�ttebra!
> /Christian
>
Mvh Roland
Message from Italy to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Roland
>
Greetings!
> Yes, I will support you into Tunis. This is well-nigh disastrous for us.
> England will probably pause to take Portugal, but then his fleets will be
> ready to roll. It looks like I really did make the right decision in
> letting you take Rome.
>
Thank you, yes I think you are right.
> Best,
>
> Chris
Mvh Roland
Message from Italy to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Roland -- I am looking at the map, and it looks like we are going to lose
> Marsaille this turn -- England will probably support Germany in, to keep him
> from worrying about this much publicized stab.
>
> Would you do me a favor? If you attack Burgundy, I can take Munich by
> force, and make up for the loss of Rome.
>
> What do you think?
>
Actually, I hope and think that England wont help Germany.
I will stay put. And also it is possible that France cuts the English
support. If there would be one.
> Chris
Mvh Roland
Message from Austria to Italy in 'ruffians':
Roland,
I had to read that last twice -- France will cut Englands support? France
will be supporting himself into Tunis, you can count on that!
You are asking me for help, and I am ready to give it. I am asking you for
help. and you are not. Even if Marsaille is lost, you can build a fleet,
you'll have three centers.
I need your help on this one, Roland!
Chris
Message from Italy to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Roland,
>
Greetings!
> I had to read that last twice -- France will cut Englands support? France
> will be supporting himself into Tunis, you can count on that!
>
I DO count on that, and I also count on England not helping Germany.
> You are asking me for help, and I am ready to give it. I am asking you for
> help. and you are not. Even if Marsaille is lost, you can build a fleet,
> you'll have three centers.
>
Is it worth the trade Mun for Mar?
If we lose Mar now, we will never get it back. And Mun is far from secure
IF you get it.
> I need your help on this one, Roland!
>
But it is the best hing to do?
> Chris
Mvh Roland
Message from Austria to Italy in 'ruffians':
Roland,
you raise some good points, but think on this --
IF England isn't going to help Germany,
AND Germany uses Burgundy to support Munich
THEN Marsaille is safe!
Germany certainly knows I am going to attack Munich. So, burgundy will
almost certainly be used to Support Munich.
And for me, it's not so much trading Marsialles for munich, it's trading
Rome for Munich!
And, given how heavily Germany is commited in France, Munich is a pretty
sure thing for me if I get there. Its is a risk, but I think a small one.
I think Gascony will support brest, just in case england tries to get
frisky.
If I have to pull a unit, we lose Marsaille anyway, just a year later, and
we lose the chance to take Munich!
I really think its worth it. But you have to make the call, ultimately. I
appriciate you beinghonest with me. I hope you don't choose to hold simply
because we have fought in the past. If Germany and France don't fight, they
can sweep over the board now that Iberia is broken.
Best,
Chris
Message from Italy to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Roland,
>
> you raise some good points, but think on this --
>
> IF England isn't going to help Germany,
>
> AND Germany uses Burgundy to support Munich
>
> THEN Marsaille is safe!
>
> Germany certainly knows I am going to attack Munich. So, burgundy will
> almost certainly be used to Support Munich.
>
> And for me, it's not so much trading Marsialles for munich, it's trading
> Rome for Munich!
>
> And, given how heavily Germany is commited in France, Munich is a pretty
> sure thing for me if I get there. Its is a risk, but I think a small one.
>
> I think Gascony will support brest, just in case england tries to get
> frisky.
>
> If I have to pull a unit, we lose Marsaille anyway, just a year later, and
> we lose the chance to take Munich!
>
> I really think its worth it. But you have to make the call, ultimately. I
> appriciate you beinghonest with me. I hope you don't choose to hold simply
> because we have fought in the past. If Germany and France don't fight, they
> can sweep over the board now that Iberia is broken.
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
Okey, we do it you way.
Mvh Roland
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
maybe you are right about the move to Berlin. It might just be more useful
there. As I said, the decision is your (as it is your sc:s we are talking
about defending!).
Russia is pushingme against you as hard as possible. I have told him no, I
will first take StP. He doesn't buy it though, he will defend StP anyway.
Too bad...:-)
Austria wants us (him and me) to have a 2-way with me holding StP and
Germany and he holding R+T+I +Tunis. Can't see it happening really, but I
am of course telling him it is a good idea. Hopefully he takes some Italian
sc:s soon so that Italys fleets are disbanded!
/Christian
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Cal,
I understand that you are upset?
My offer was actually a seious one. Once I am in StP I cannot loose it and
you cannot loose anything south of it (whothout me getting help from
Austria). I was trying to negotiate a safe-zone for both of us.
Look at it this way:
With us fighting over StP you use two or three units to hold it. That is
three units that could be useful elsewhere.
With me in StP with a fleet (nc) you loose one unit because of the
center-loss. That leaves one or two of the units used to defend StP inthe
example above free to do other stuff.
So actually, you are bying freedom for two units by accepting my offer.
A homecenter is not that important, you have three more to build in.
I have tried to be honest with you after my stab and gave you the needed
time to fight Turkey back. I still try to be honest with you and wants to
be safe in the northern area to make sure you and I can concentrate
together on Germany. With you in StP and me in Nwy+Fin we will always be
suspicious about each others intentions, but with me with a fleet (nc) StP
we can trust each other to fully concentrate on Germany. I may move fleets
to Bal/Hel. That�s it. My proposal was serious. At least I look upon it as
serious. If you feel an other way, no can do. I will not attack Germany
before StP is mine. Sorry.
/Christian
Message from England to France in
'ruffians':
Well, look at it this way. I do not support Spa(sc) with MAO, I am moving
to WES. If you move on to TRN or LYO you can get either MAR or Tunis next
turn. A french fleet in Tunis could be alive a long time!
If nothing else, you can attack Spa to make sure my support to Gas-Mar is
cut :-)
/Christian
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I will not move directly against Germany this move. I will however probably
misorder in Spain so that I support the wrong unit into Marseilles. My main
probelm is that i really don't like to attack Germnay before I have control
over StP. I am trying to convince Cal about the good things about giving
StP up to a English fleet Stp(nc) and then attack Germany togteher with
that problem out of the way. He doesn't listen though.
My reasoning is like this:
If Russia tries to defend StP he uses three units for a long time to defend
something he will loose eventually anyway.
If Russia gives me StP (with a fleet nc) he looses one unit due to
center-loss but can thus use two units more than otherwise to atack Germany
or Turkey.
Had you given up StP if you were him?
Anyway, if you want to go for the two-way, keep up the positions for
R-stabbing and we can move within two years (when I have finished StP by
force!). If you can convince Cal to leave StP now we can go for Germany
next spring!
/Chris
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Cal,
> I understand that you are upset?
You guess correctly.
> My offer was actually a seious one. Once I am in StP I cannot loose it and
> you cannot loose anything south of it (whothout me getting help from
> Austria). I was trying to negotiate a safe-zone for both of us.
Fine. You stay out of Norway and I'll stay out of St Pete's
> Look at it this way:
> With us fighting over StP you use two or three units to hold it. That is
> three units that could be useful elsewhere.
I'm not doing much else. If my raison d'etre becomes fighting over St
Pete's, so be it. My interest in this game took a big hit when FROG died
and I lost two builds.
> So actually, you are buying freedom for two units by accepting my offer.
I believe the French have a term for this: merde. Personally, I'm not quite
so polite.
> A homecenter is not that important, you have three more to build in.
C'mon, you're not talking to a novice here. Why don't you give me London so
*I* can feel more secure?
> I have tried to be honest with you after my stab and gave you the needed
> time to fight Turkey back. I still try to be honest with you and wants to
> be safe in the northern area to make sure you and I can concentrate
> together on Germany. With you in StP and me in Nwy+Fin we will always be
> suspicious about each others intentions, but with me with a fleet (nc) StP
> we can trust each other to fully concentrate on Germany. I may move fleets
> to Bal/Hel. That�s it. My proposal was serious. At least I look upon it as
> serious. If you feel an other way, no can do. I will not attack Germany
> before StP is mine. Sorry.
You may have thought your proposal was serious, but how could you expect
anyone above the level of novice to accept it? If you're going to insult my
intelligence with crap like this, we can forget about working together.
France may have fallen for your "Give me Iberia and I'll stab Germany" lie,
but I'm not him.
I'm sorry if I seem angry, but this really is a load of bullshit. I guess
we fight to the end of the game.
Cal
Message from France to Austria in 'ruffians':
how should we best handle the taking of Tunis? My info from England
indicates he will move F MAO - WES (i'm guessing for the superior position)
and will use F SPA to support Germany into Marseilles (strange when combined
with the move on KIE last season). Depending on how you see things working,
perhaps I can convolute things by using A NAF to move to TUN and using F WES
to move to MAO causing a large bounce and I would then keep POR for another
year---or end up in Tunis and MAO, also a big headache for England's
expansion into the Med.
Message from Austria to France in 'ruffians':
John,
Hmmm. Good points all. I think that England will probably take Portugal
now, and move F Engch to Mao. I think you'll be best off supporting the
Fleet into Tunis -- I have other plans for the F ionian, alas.
If I really thought you would get into the MAO, I'd say go for it -- but I
just cant see that happening.
Oh, and By the way, I have your "best Italy" from Dragonflight, we should
get together sometime so you can claim it!
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> Ok, Question time -- defend St Pete, or defend Sev? England can't be
kicked
> out of StPete -- Turkey can be kicked out of Sev.
>
> Tough call -- it means I go into Ukraine, so that he can be kicked out
next
> season. Even then, he can cut Moscow's support for StPete.
>
> What do you think?
I think I want to "smite" England even more than Cyrille. He has demanded
St Pete as the price for attacking Germany. He wants to feel secure - no
secure feeling, no attack on Germany. I told him that France may have been
dumb enough to fall for the "You give me Iberia, I attack Germany" crap, but
I wasn't about to. I swear, Cyrille, Christian, Paul and Roland are all
playing this as if it were a novice game. My EOG is going to have some
nasty things to say about the way my intelligence has been insulted in this
game... As if the E/G isn't the most obvious thing since Christian's naive
thoughts that he is working some secret master plan...
Do I sound pissed? Well, I am. You have no worries about me sticking with
you. As far as I'm concerned, you're the only player in this game (besides
myself) that deserves to be in a demo game. Sheesh!
I'm going to support St Pete's (No! Really?) against England and I'd like
you to use Ser/Gre to support me in Bulgaria. Would it be possible for us to
bounce Sev & Gal in Rum? I have this feeling Cyrille will try for Rum
instead of Sev. After all, I've been unrelenting in my opposition to him
all game and he has no reason to think I'd prefer to stop England's attack
on St Pete's over his on Sev. But then again he hasn't shown much tactical
imagination either. What do you think?
Disgustedly, your ally,
Cal
Message from Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Cal, I'm sorry if I misread the support you gave to Austria's move to Gal.
It's
> just
> that I could make no other sense out his urgency in reaching Gal unless it
was
> pointed at Sil: what would he have said-- "I want to police the neutral
zone
> between us, so please support me to Gal"? Why didn't he say "I want to
keep the
> Hun's A Sil out of Gal, so let's bounce over that province and keep it
clear"?
> No, please DON'T take it as an invitation on my part to support his
> Gal-Sil.
That unit in Gal probably IS pointed at Sil and I apologize for that, but,
as I said, it was the price of keeping peace for my side. I'm basically
without a friend that can do me any good and I'd rather not piss off
Austria.
> > Me too. I don't think England has a clue as to what he is trying to
> > accomplish in this game. Me, I'm just trying to stay alive and to be in
a
> > position to grow if the opportunity presents itself. And at least I'm
being
> > honest about it.
>
> Who's not being honest about those same goals? England? Austria? They
are the
> ones who have chances for actual growth and offensive positioning....
Evidently
> England promised France that he would stab Germany if France handed Iberia
over
> without a fight. Apparently France was so desperate to believe that I
could be
> "punished" for successfully stabbing him that he was willing to exit the
game
> and
> simply watch it happen (or not) as an observer.
England is trying the same bullshit on me. He has been claiming that he is
going to stab you for four consecutive turns now, but now he has written me
(received just after I wrote back to you) and made it clear that he has no
intention of attacking you unless I give him a feeling of security by
handing over St Pete's. I told him that if he is going to insult my
intelligence by talking to me like I was a novice, he can lose my address
and piss off. I'm actually pretty upset (in game terms) by what kind of
crap is coming out of his mouth.
> The point which I am making to England, and hopefully to you as well,
is
> that
> Germany is more useful to you both alive than dead; holding out at
centerboard,
> I
> can stifle/slow Austrian growth in this vital area. I can "keep him busy"
with
> his futile massing of units in my direction, as long as neither you nor
England
> choose to
> give him a nudge "over the hill".
> I am stating this as unambiguously as I possibly can.
I get what you're saying. What I can't help thinking is this: while it
looks like you and England could be a pretty good alliance, you are always
going to have to have eyes in the back of your head. It's a pretty rotten
feeling knowing that England can stab you whenever he wants and you can
neither stop his attack nor even pull a pre-emptive strike because of your
lack of fleets. Been there, done that. It sucks.
But, at the same time, you are making far too much of Austria's position. He
has an enemy in back (Turkey) who is still strong enough to hurt him badly
and neither Austria nor I can spare enough strength to kill him because of
you and England. Austria also has two very questionable allies in France
and Italy. Hell, with Austria sitting in Venice and Roland and he having
had a pretty crumby relationship all game (trust me on this), I'm not sure
Italy is an Austrian ally at all.
I know it's hard to consider someone to be not much of a threat when he's
kind of at your doorstep, but do you see what I mean when I say Austria
isn't the threat to the board that England is?
I'd say that, in terms of their chances to do well in the game, England is
way above everyone else, Germany is next (IF England sticks with you, you're
tied with Austria if he doesn't), Austria is third, R/T next and F/I
bringing up the rear. Sound about right?
> Cool?
I think you and I are cool, but I'd love to see the focus of this game
change a bit. In my perfect little world, you and Austria would bury the
hatchet, allowing him and I to bury the Turk. Then you and I could knock
England down to size while Austria grabs Italy and sails west through the
Med. Of course, since it's MY fantasy, I stab you both and win the game,
but if I want to be realistic, we just end it in a two or three-way draw
(whatever works best) <G>. Do you see any chance of this happening? If I
could talk Austria into moving away from you, how far would you go to meet
him halfway?
Comments?
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal -- I am supporting you to hold in Bulgaria -- I am expecting your
support from Gal -> Sil.
Christian writes and says "can you convince Cal to let St Pete go? I can
take it soon enough anyway. I am inclined to agree with him -- he wants to
take on Germany, and so he would probably take it with a fleet. This would
let you defend Sev, and take Cyrile down to 3, thus ensuring we can finish
him off. Once Christian has stp, he will probably pay attention to other
stuff. Cyrille wont stop.until he takes StPete. Still, it's up to you. If
you DO decide to support StPete, you should probably move Sev -> Rum, incase
Cyrille gets clever and convoys armenia there!
That would SUCK!
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
That's funny, I just sent an email to you discussing the same things!
We can bounce in Rum, if you'll hit Silesia for me.
There certainly has been some questionable play here! Heheheh. This sure
has been an interesting one, hasn't it? My EOG will be a laugh riot, I am
sure!
Best,
chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> That's funny, I just sent an email to you discussing the same things!
Yeah, I THOUGHT you responded kinda quick... d;-})
> We can bounce in Rum, if you'll hit Silesia for me.
Fair enough. What are the odds of Roland hitting Burgandy so you can take
Munich? Are you guys allied? I'm thinking he may steal Venice back on you.
> There certainly has been some questionable play here! Heheheh. This sure
> has been an interesting one, hasn't it? My EOG will be a laugh riot, I am
> sure!
Mine may lose me some "friends"... heh heh.
Cal
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Sorry then. I wasn't intending to "insult your intelligence".
You said "I stay out of Norway and you stay out of StP". How is that going
to happen? Wich one of us trust the other one to move out first?
/Christian
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
> 'ruffians':
>
> You said "I stay out of Norway and you stay out of StP". How is that going
> to happen? Wich one of us trust the other one to move out first?
Obviously the first step is for you to move ONE of your units away so you
don't have support on St Pete's. Then, if we don't feel we can trust each
other, we can just keep bouncing units in St Pete's and Norway, the way you
and Germany are doing in Kiel. This would free me to deal with Turkey and
you could attack Germany with all those juicy supply centres waiting there
for you in total safety.
Cal
Message from Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> > > > > Cool?
> > > >
> > > > I think you and I are cool, but I'd love to see the focus of this game
> > > > change a bit. In my perfect little world, you and Austria would bury the
> > > > hatchet, allowing him and I to bury the Turk. Then you and I could knock
> > > > England down to size while Austria grabs Italy and sails west through the
> > > > Med. Of course, since it's MY fantasy, I stab you both and win the game,
> > > > but if I want to be realistic, we just end it in a two or three-way draw
> > > > (whatever works best) <G>. Do you see any chance of this happening? If I
> > > > could talk Austria into moving away from you, how far would you go to meet
> > > > him halfway?
> > > >
> > > > Comments?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, if Austria were to stop supporting the Italian A Mar, and if he didn't
> > > move to
> > > Sil this season, I would have great incentive to build a second fleet. This
> > > could put
> > > immediate pressure on the English in Scandinavia, for starters.
> > > If both Austria and Germany concentrate upon fleetbuilding as a serious
> > > avocation, it could help each of us to put pressure on our respective corners.
> > > You
> > > might have a hand in each of those situations, to your own profit!
> > > I will write Austria again. Maybe this time he'll respond?
> > >
> > > Paul
Message from Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> > > > Well, if Austria were to stop supporting the Italian A Mar, and if
he didn't
> > > > move to
> > > > Sil this season, I would have great incentive to build a second
fleet. This
> > > > could put
> > > > immediate pressure on the English in Scandinavia, for starters.
> > > > If both Austria and Germany concentrate upon fleetbuilding as a
serious
> > > > avocation, it could help each of us to put pressure on our
respective corners.
> > > > You
> > > > might have a hand in each of those situations, to your own profit!
> > > > I will write Austria again. Maybe this time he'll respond?
I'll get on his back. Right now, the only ones gaining from you and he
being at odds are England & Turkey.
Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
I've been engaged in a bit of a dialogue with Germany and, while I wouldn't
say he can be trusted, I THINK I'm starting to convince him that the only
one's benefitting from the A/G war are England and Turkey. He says he's
going to write you. If he does, please give it some consideration. We
could really use the respite to finish off Turkey and get you some
Mediterranean fleets. See if you think anything can be worked out, okay? I
know you won't sell the store... d;-})
Later
Cal
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
Dear Chris:
As must be obvious to you, your growing encroachment towards my
homeland
is keeping me from building any more fleets and is even diminishing my
defensive
capabilities with regard to England. If I have to waste units defending
the home dots, I have less to work with in defending Hol/Bel/Bre, much
less in putting together some form of an offensive pressure on
Christian.
With France suiciding out in favor of England, and with the
possibility of
Christian's picking up StP, I am faced with a sizable foreign body
"behind my back". I certainly can't be comfortable with this!
The corner power behind YOUR back, Turkey, is less threatening but
is a
continuing thorn in your side. If we were not in this "Cold War", you
could be
eliminating Roland as a force behind your lines quite quickly. Using the
builds
you gained thereby, you could create a navy to stand up to England's
once he enters
the Mediterranean theatre!
Chris, if you allow me to finally take Mar I can build a second
fleet in Berlin.
By F'08, I can begin putting pressure on English held Scandinavia!
If you at least stay away from Sil, I can simply defend Mun with
one army while
using the others to defend Bre/Bel/Hol.
This Fall, I could support A Bur-Mar with Gas and have two units
bordering on
Spain. All this might not hurt England significantly, but it could
prevent his
explosion into a power gaining 3 centers per gameyear. Surely that is
in your
interest, as well as Russia's and mine?
You can keep armies in Boh and Tyr, if that helps you feel safe. I
can live with
two foreign units bordering Mun. But if you enter Sil, we have a
serious breach in
German security: I must devote two supports to Mun AND another unit to
the defense of Berlin. I will be left wide open to England's
encroachment.
Can we start a dialogue here, before our choices are simple war at
centerboard
and seeing an English victory?
Paul
Message from Russia to Austria and Germany in
'ruffians':
Hey guys,
I just want to add that I'm in favour of Paul's proposal. With you guys
fighting, England has free rein to do anything he wants, including making
silly demands for me to surrender St Pete's. Also, without Austria and I
being able to commit enough of our forces, Turkey becomes almost impossible
to kill. If we can work together, we can all make much more efficient use
of our units.
For my part, with England on one side and Turkey on the other, I have to do
a balancing act to stay on both of your sides. I can't afford to piss
anyone off and that severely limits my ability to actually DO anything. I'd
love the opportunity to work with both of you against E/T.
Can we work something out to demilitarize the Central Plain? Paul's offer to
let Chris maintain units in Boh/Tyr seems pretty equitable. I'd love to
free up my Warsaw army. I'm not going to "let" England into St Pete's and
if Germany can build a fleet, I think we can accomplish something to benefit
all three of us.
Comments?
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia and Germany in
'ruffians':
Gentlemen,
I must say, this is the most sensible discussion I have seen in this game in
some time. OF COURSE it benefits the central powers to work toghether. The
only reason I am marching on Munich is that the English/German alliance
looked quite strong.
The French retreat has changed all that, of course. I do have one
condition, however.
How do you suggest we go about this? I am about to lose Rome, and will have
to remove a unit if I do not gain one in return. I am not a center Grabber,
I can live with going back one step for the moment, if I have to, but I do
need more fleets as well.
I am willing to work out an arrangement on this, but I have to see some long
term benefits first. For example:
Paul, you take Marsaille, putting you up one. Cal and I could dislodge the
unit in Silesia, which would then retreat off the board. You are +2.
Kiel could move to the Helgoland bight, while Munich moves to Kiel, bouncing
with denmark of course, leaving you room to build 2 new fleets.
Next year, Munich and Warsaw dislodge my army from Silesia, which I retreat
off the board -- allowing me to build a new fleet.
This is the sort of arrangement I think has a chance of working -- remember,
christian builds 2 this year!
Best,
Chris
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
press to R
>
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Germany in
> > 'ruffians:
> >
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > I must say, this is the most sensible discussion I have seen in this game in
> > some time. OF COURSE it benefits the central powers to work toghether. The
> > only reason I am marching on Munich is that the English/German alliance
> > looked quite strong.
> >
> > The French retreat has changed all that, of course. I do have one
> > condition, however.
> >
> > How do you suggest we go about this? I am about to lose Rome, and will have
> > to remove a unit if I do not gain one in return. I am not a center Grabber,
> > I can live with going back one step for the moment, if I have to, but I do
> > need more fleets as well.
> >
> > I am willing to work out an arrangement on this, but I have to see some long
> > term benefits first. For example:
> >
> > Paul, you take Marsaille, putting you up one. Cal and I could dislodge the
> > unit in Silesia, which would then retreat off the board. You are +2.
> >
> > Kiel could move to the Helgoland bight, while Munich moves to Kiel, bouncing
> > with denmark of course, leaving you room to build 2 new fleets.
> >
> > Next year, Munich and Warsaw dislodge my army from Silesia, which I retreat
> > off the board -- allowing me to build a new fleet.
> >
> > This is the sort of arrangement I think has a chance of working -- remember,
> > christian builds 2 this year!
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Chris
>
> Okay guys, I'll go along with the plan. Everything I do at this stage is a risk
> anyway, so why not go for the gusto?
> I'll go for Mar and I'll retreat Sil otb to build two fleets. I'll send
> Mun to bounce
> England in Kiel.
> We have a deal!
>
> Paul
>
> End of message.
>
> Movement orders for Fall of 1907. (ruffians.032)
>
> Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
> Germany: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich.
> Germany: Fleet Kiel HOLD.
> Germany: Army Brest HOLD.
> Germany: Army Belgium -> Ruhr.
> Germany: Army Gascony -> Marseilles.
> Germany: Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
Message from Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
[email protected] wrote:
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> :: Judge: USEF Game: Ruffians Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: F1907M Tue Nov 16 1999 23:30:00 PST
>
> Message sent to Austria:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
> press to R
>
> >
> > >
> > > Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Germany in
> > > 'ruffians:
> > >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > >
> > > I must say, this is the most sensible discussion I have seen in this game in
> > > some time. OF COURSE it benefits the central powers to work toghether. The
> > > only reason I am marching on Munich is that the English/German alliance
> > > looked quite strong.
> > >
> > > The French retreat has changed all that, of course. I do have one
> > > condition, however.
> > >
> > > How do you suggest we go about this? I am about to lose Rome, and will have
> > > to remove a unit if I do not gain one in return. I am not a center Grabber,
> > > I can live with going back one step for the moment, if I have to, but I do
> > > need more fleets as well.
> > >
> > > I am willing to work out an arrangement on this, but I have to see some long
> > > term benefits first. For example:
> > >
> > > Paul, you take Marsaille, putting you up one. Cal and I could dislodge the
> > > unit in Silesia, which would then retreat off the board. You are +2.
> > >
> > > Kiel could move to the Helgoland bight, while Munich moves to Kiel, bouncing
> > > with denmark of course, leaving you room to build 2 new fleets.
> > >
> > > Next year, Munich and Warsaw dislodge my army from Silesia, which I retreat
> > > off the board -- allowing me to build a new fleet.
> > >
> > > This is the sort of arrangement I think has a chance of working -- remember,
> > > christian builds 2 this year!
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Chris
> >
> > Okay guys, I'll go along with the plan. Everything I do at this stage is a risk
> > anyway, so why not go for the gusto?
> > I'll go for Mar and I'll retreat Sil otb to build two fleets. I'll send
> > Mun to bounce
> > England in Kiel.
> > We have a deal!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > End of message.
> >
> > Movement orders for Fall of 1907. (ruffians.032)
> >
> > Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
> > Germany: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich.
> > Germany: Fleet Kiel HOLD.
> > Germany: Army Brest HOLD.
> > Germany: Army Belgium -> Ruhr.
> > Germany: Army Gascony -> Marseilles.
> > Germany: Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
>
> End of message.
>
> Movement orders for Fall of 1907. (ruffians.032)
>
> Germany: Army Munich -> Kiel.
> Germany: Army Burgundy -> Marseilles.
> Germany: Fleet Kiel -> Helgoland Bight.
> Germany: Army Brest HOLD.
> Germany: Army Belgium HOLD.
> Germany: Army Gascony SUPPORT Army Burgundy -> Marseilles.
> Germany: Army Silesia HOLD.
Message from Russia to Austria and Germany in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Germany
in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Paul, you take Marsailles, putting you up one. Cal and I could dislodge
the
> unit in Silesia, which would then retreat off the board. You are +2.
This whole proposal looks fine to me. The only question is: do I MOVE to
Silesia or support Bohemia there? My preference is that my unit end up in
Warsaw, but I'm open to suggestion.
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
did you look at this?
<<> Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
> Germany: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich.
> Germany: Fleet Kiel HOLD.
> Germany: Army Brest HOLD.
> Germany: Army Belgium -> Ruhr.
> Germany: Army Gascony -> Marseilles.
> Germany: Army Silesia -> Bohemia.>>
Those are the movement orders he had going -- now, evidently he is going to
change them. Or should we trust him?
Well, I say support A Galicia -> Silesia, and if he is playing us straight
fine, if not, we can take him down from there.
I'll be supporting you to hold in Bulgaria. Turkey at 3 will be alot easier
to deal with!
Chris
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
We're waiting on you again, Cyrille.
Chris
Broadcast message from Turkey in 'ruffians':
I propose a win for England and Austria, as they both seem to want it.
Broadcast message from Austria in 'ruffians':
Wheras you only ever wanted a 7 way draw? ;)
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
[email protected] wrote:
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Turkey in 'ruffians':
>
> I propose a win for England and Austria, as they both seem to want it.
Well then, I propose a win for Germany and Russia-- we're the ones working
hardest for it against all odds!
Or how 'bout a win for France and Italy? They have a right to dream!
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
How about a win for Germany and Russia? We've been working hardest at
it!
Or how about a win for France and Italy? They are wishing, anyway...!
Broadcast message from Turkey in 'ruffians':
Well, loking at the insults I received, I guess it's not common. But really,
this is my first non-stop game:-) I don't like to be NMR, but I have no more
dip, so it's really boring for me, but I don't want to give my centers, it's
not fair. How does it end generally?
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Turkey in 'ruffians':
>
> Well, loking at the insults I received, I guess it's not common. But really,
> this is my first non-stop game:-) I don't like to be NMR, but I have no more
> dip, so it's really boring for me, but I don't want to give my centers, it's
> not fair. How does it end generally?
Well, Cyrilles, you didn't do what I suggested before and it cost you. You
didn't
write back so I gave up on you. If you still want to live, you can let me
write your
moves for you or argue with me over what is best. That is playing Dip, my
friend.
Broadcast message from France in 'ruffians':
> Well, loking at the insults I received, I guess it's not common. But
really,
> this is my first non-stop game:-) I don't like to be NMR, but I have no
more
> dip, so it's really boring for me, but I don't want to give my centers,
it's
> not fair. How does it end generally?
usually we just declare Chris Martin the winner, although in this case
/Christian may give him a run for his money
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
>Broadcast message from [email protected] as Turkey in 'ruffians':
>
>I propose a win for England and Austria, as they both seem to want it.
Less proposals, more orders...
Cal
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
>Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> > Broadcast message from [email protected] as Turkey in 'ruffians':
> >
> > I propose a win for England and Austria, as they both seem to want it.
>
>Well then, I propose a win for Germany and Russia-- we're the ones working
>
>hardest for it against all odds!
I'll vote for this one on the condition that Paul learns how to edit earlier
messages... <G>
Cal
Message from Turkey to Germany in 'ruffians':
>Well, Cyrilles, you didn't do what I suggested before and it cost you. You
>didn't
>write back so I gave up on you. If you still want to live, you can let me
>write your
>moves for you or argue with me over what is best. That is playing Dip, my
>friend.
Is it an ironic tone:-) Honestly, I guess you wanted me to move Arm-Sev, to
slow Russia. That's what I tried to do, but how can we stop them, with
england playing really slowly (he does not even ensure the med!), and not,
or nearly not, in North against Russia?
BTW, do you know the correct syntax of the moves
T: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Constantinople -> Bulgaria (east coast).
Unrecognized source province ->
T: Fleet Constantinople -> Bulgaria (east coast).
Unrecognized source province ->
Is east coast not the english name? I waste time for days on that!
Broadcast message from Turkey in 'ruffians':
Well, why the delay? ... good question. What is, once again, the problem
with the judge with
T: Fleet Constantinople -> Bulgaria (east coast).
Unrecognized source province ->
Is it not the correct name in english?
The syntax analiser of the judge seemed not really well programmed, but I
can see that your messages are still actives. And by broadcast now,
Thanks a lot!
Retreats
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
To shorten this down to a phrase: what the fuck?!?
I don't understand you wanting to prolong a war with Germany. You've
probably forced him back into bed with England and that's no good for anyone
in the east. Heck, you've got ME thinking you're doing the long term thing
with England.
If Turkey was dead, I could see all this, but he's not. Whassup?
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia and Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul, Cal,
I swear I did not intend to end up in Munich. I just got home and have
looked over the results and thought that A silesia -> Bohemia would cut my
support in. I have no desire to force england and Germany to work together.
Let me look at the moves again and see what happened.
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia and Germany in
'ruffians':
Gentlemen,
Ok -- There were a number of miscues here, but none of them irreparable.
Italy is now OUT. I couldn't possibly be happier, Roland has been a thorn
in my side for WAY too long.
Paul, you copied your orders to us at the end of the email you sent last.
It included a move of Sileisa -> Bohemia.
Cal thought I was going to move Bohemia -> Silesia.
I thought he was going to support Galicia -> Silesia, and then you would
dislodge that unit in the spring. As it is, NO units were dislodged for
Either of us, but due to my stab of Italy, I will build a fleet now. I can
lose munich immediately next year, I will walk out and let Silesia in. I DO
NOT WANT TO RE-START HOSTILITIES.
(I can't help thinking: "We did not mean to bomb the chinese embassy"
DOH!)
Cal, I assure you I am all aboard for the destruction of Turkey.
Paul, I assure you I am all aboard for the destruction of England.
I am leaving bright and early tomorrow morning to teach in the catskills (I
know, very dirty dancing). I'll be back on Sunday, and I hope to stay in
touch then!
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria and Germany in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Germany
in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Paul, you copied your orders to us at the end of the email you sent last.
> It included a move of Sileisa -> Bohemia.
>
> Cal thought I was going to move Bohemia -> Silesia.
>
> I thought he was going to support Galicia -> Silesia, and then you would
> dislodge that unit in the spring. As it is, NO units were dislodged for
> Either of us, but due to my stab of Italy, I will build a fleet now. I
can
> lose munich immediately next year, I will walk out and let Silesia in. I
DO
> NOT WANT TO RE-START HOSTILITIES.
Well, part of the problem here is that, when I asked what was I supposed to
support, no one ever answered, so I put the order in that I did as my best
guess.
> Cal, I assure you I am all aboard for the destruction of Turkey.
>
> Paul, I assure you I am all aboard for the destruction of England.
Well, presumably your build will confirm that...
> I am leaving bright and early tomorrow morning to teach in the catskills
(I
> know, very dirty dancing). I'll be back on Sunday, and I hope to stay in
> touch then!
Is this one ballroom dancing or country line dancing? <G>
Cal
Message from Russia to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul: I'm don't know what to say right now. My first inclination is that
Chris is trying to screw us both and his latest letter doesn't totally
UNconvince me of that. Suffice it to say that I'm glad we at least get a
chance to look at his build before deciding if we're getting suckered. It's
occurred to me that A/E are actually in it together for the long haul. I
wouldn't put it past either of them.
If you don't believe Chris, or if he doesn't build the fleet, my army in
Warsaw is at your disposal to get Munich back to you.
Comments?
Cal
Message from Austria to Italy in 'ruffians':
Roland,
I hope you are not a)too surprised, or b) too disapointed. When I have
someone on the ropes, and I let them get back up, help them even, I don't
need them questioning my "suggestions". I'll say it again -- I would like
to have your fleet in the Med helping me. I don't figure you would do
anything but spit at me at this point, but if you want to stay in the game,
I will not take Rome as long as you order that fleet the way I want it
ordered.
Your build and disband will, of course, be my answer, though if you want to
berate me as a treacherous bastich, that is of course your right. ;)
Nothing personal -- I rather enjoyed our early years of sparring. I think
the A/I dynamic is one of the most fascinating on the board, and you have
always stood by your convictions. I respect that, I just can't let it get
in the way of World Domination! Muhwhahahahahahahah! ;)
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal, you didn't get my message saying "support galicia in"? Thats odd.
I got this:
<<
:: Judge: USEF Game: Ruffians Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: F1907M Tue Nov 16 1999 23:30:00 PST
Message sent to Russia:
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
did you look at this?
<<> Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
> Germany: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich.
> Germany: Fleet Kiel HOLD.
> Germany: Army Brest HOLD.
> Germany: Army Belgium -> Ruhr.
> Germany: Army Gascony -> Marseilles.
> Germany: Army Silesia -> Bohemia.>>
Those are the movement orders he had going -- now, evidently he is going to
change them. Or should we trust him?
Well, I say support A Galicia -> Silesia, and if he is playing us straight
fine, if not, we can take him down from there.
I'll be supporting you to hold in Bulgaria. Turkey at 3 will be alot easier
to deal with>>
Or did you not WANT to support my army Galicia into Silesia? He would have
been able to disband and build a fleet, but would he have? hmmmmm.
How do you want to play it from here? I build a fleet and then we play
convoy the army to Syria?
Let me know --
Oh, and it is Swing, Twostep, and country Waltz that I'll be teaching!
Best,
Chris
Chris
Message from Austria to France in 'ruffians':
Haha. Veeeeeeery funny. "Usually we just declare Chris the winner." LOL.
Pity it aint true!
Now if only Christian attacks Germany . . .
I offered Roland survival if he keeps the fleet. What do you think the odds
are he will take me up on it? ;)
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
Nope, I checked my files and I never received it.
Obviously, YOU didn't read his letter carefully (or he sent you a different
version?). The one *I* saw had that set of orders you quote and ANOTHER set
right after with the moves which were the ones he eventually used, so I KNEW
he had at least sent in a new set.
Here are the relevant parts:
> > Okay guys, I'll go along with the plan. Everything I do at this stage
is a risk
> > anyway, so why not go for the gusto?
> > I'll go for Mar and I'll retreat Sil otb to build two fleets. I'll
send
> > Mun to bounce
> > England in Kiel.
> > We have a deal!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > End of message.
> >
> > Movement orders for Fall of 1907. (ruffians.032)
> >
> > Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
> > Germany: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich.
> > Germany: Fleet Kiel HOLD.
> > Germany: Army Brest HOLD.
> > Germany: Army Belgium -> Ruhr.
> > Germany: Army Gascony -> Marseilles.
> > Germany: Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
>
> End of message.
>
> Movement orders for Fall of 1907. (ruffians.032)
>
> Germany: Army Munich -> Kiel.
> Germany: Army Burgundy -> Marseilles.
> Germany: Fleet Kiel -> Helgoland Bight.
> Germany: Army Brest HOLD.
> Germany: Army Belgium HOLD.
> Germany: Army Gascony SUPPORT Army Burgundy -> Marseilles.
> Germany: Army Silesia HOLD.
Mind you, he then sent me a private note asking how to send e-mail thru the
judge to two people at once. Maybe he sent you the original and me the
copy after he updated his orders. That's unfortunate, if correct.
> Oh, and it is Swing, Twostep, and country Waltz that I'll be teaching!
Yee haw. "I remember the night and the Tennessee Waltz..."
Cowboy Cal and the Blue Mountain Troubadours
(Believe it or not, my first professional job as a musician was in a band
with the above name (well, just the Blue Mountain Troubadours part). I was
appalled, but it paid well. I just wouldn't wear the clothes...)
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
Why this?
F Kie-Hel?
While Austria marches into Munich? And why did you capture Marseilles with
Bur?
Oh, bugger. You�re going to fight me while Austria gets 18?
Please let us pick up where we left. Build an Army Berlin and let us work
together!
/Christian
Message from Italy to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Roland,
>
> I hope you are not a)too surprised, or b) too disapointed. When I have
> someone on the ropes, and I let them get back up, help them even, I don't
> need them questioning my "suggestions".
So I was your puppet? With no right to have my own ideas and suggestions?
>I'll say it again -- I would like
> to have your fleet in the Med helping me.
You do? Strange way of showing it.
>I don't figure you would do
> anything but spit at me at this point, but if you want to stay in the game,
> I will not take Rome as long as you order that fleet the way I want it
> ordered.
>
Stay in the game? For how long, I wonder...
> Your build and disband will, of course, be my answer, though if you want to
> berate me as a treacherous bastich, that is of course your right. ;)
>
Well, could the definition be any other?
> Nothing personal -- I rather enjoyed our early years of sparring. I think
> the A/I dynamic is one of the most fascinating on the board, and you have
> always stood by your convictions. I respect that, I just can't let it get
> in the way of World Domination! Muhwhahahahahahahah! ;)
>
Sorry, but I do not think you will succeed. You have bred too many too
strong enemies around you.
> Best,
>
> Chris
The Pope
Adjustments
Broadcast message from Observer in 'ruffians':
I have been watching silently for some time now..... but I thought
I would weigh in as France and Italy move very close to oblivion
in this game.
First of all, I would comment that these demo games have had a
VERY strong tendency to end up in three way draws (some claim
that among expert players, given the stalemate lines, this is
the logical long run outcome of the game). I am sitting here
this fine Saturday morning contemplating what three way draw
is most likely and finding some VERY interesting analysis.
I won't share my conclusions at this point..... hey, you guys
can all figure it out ;-) but I think that the next game year
or two will be very interesting along that line.
Second, I want to remind all of you that another intent of this
series is to mix expert players from disparate mediums and hobbies.
This has ALWAYS resulted in some "funny" results as particular
expert players were taken out of their games or put in situations
that they found very frustrating. I just want to take this
opportunity (it seems a good juncture in the game to do it)
to THANK each of you for putting your "egos" and playing reputations
on the line where there were not any soft players to wipe off
the map easily. Mistakes? Yes, perhaps some have been made,
no one is perfect, but this has been a game thus far to have
lived up to the reputation of the series. I would caution all
of you to remind yourselves what a knife-edge game this is,
especially when played with great players. But, ultimately it
still is a game. I say all that because I see these attempts
to "take players out of their game", which all is WITHIN the
game. I think you all know what I mean here and I just want
to thank all of you for putting the time into the game and to
Rick for GMing it! I look forward to see how it plays out and
despite all this rhetoric, not to see any "early draws" ;-)
Diplomacy IS still THE game.
Jim-Bob
Message from Germany to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> BTW, do you know the correct syntax of the moves
>
> T: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Constantinople -> Bulgaria (east coast).
> Unrecognized source province ->
> T: Fleet Constantinople -> Bulgaria (east coast).
> Unrecognized source province ->
F Con-Bul(ec)
F Aeg s F Con-Bul(ec)
>
>
> Is east coast not the english name? I waste time for days on that!
Yes, but unfortunately the Judge doesn't speak full English-- it speaks "Judge"!
The biggest complaint that I had about your recent moves was the removal of
your A Gal (remember?). That was our biggest hope of making progress together
vs. R or A-- gone.
--Paul
Message from Germany to Austria and Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Germany in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> Ok -- There were a number of miscues here, but none of them irreparable.
> Italy is now OUT. I couldn't possibly be happier, Roland has been a thorn
> in my side for WAY too long.
>
> Paul, you copied your orders to us at the end of the email you sent last.
> It included a move of Sileisa -> Bohemia.
Those were the OLD moves, changed after our deal was made. How they got
printed I don't know....
>
>
> Cal thought I was going to move Bohemia -> Silesia.
He DID ask you to clarify which units were going where....
>
>
> I thought he was going to support Galicia -> Silesia, and then you would
> dislodge that unit in the spring. As it is, NO units were dislodged for
> Either of us, but due to my stab of Italy, I will build a fleet now. I can
> lose munich immediately next year, I will walk out and let Silesia in. I DO
> NOT WANT TO RE-START HOSTILITIES.
>
> (I can't help thinking: "We did not mean to bomb the chinese embassy"
> DOH!
>
> Paul, I assure you I am all aboard for the destruction of England.
I'll stick with G/A/R vs E and T, but I wish I would have had another fleet
build
coming! As things stand, England is out of position to hurt me right away...
but he
has those two builds coming!
In the Spring, I'll move A Sil-Mun and support myself into Den. England
will
likely send new fleets to Eng and Nth, and will probably retreat F Den-Bal after
I
dislodge it. I'll have my work cut out for me!
Paul
Message from Germany to Russia in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Paul: I'm don't know what to say right now. My first inclination is that
> > Chris is trying to screw us both and his latest letter doesn't totally
> > UNconvince me of that. Suffice it to say that I'm glad we at least get a
> > chance to look at his build before deciding if we're getting suckered. It's
> > occurred to me that A/E are actually in it together for the long haul. I
> > wouldn't put it past either of them.
> >
> > If you don't believe Chris, or if he doesn't build the fleet, my army in
> > Warsaw is at your disposal to get Munich back to you.
> >
> > Comments?
>
> Well, if he builds another fleet Tri this Winter all is not lost. I'm going on
> the
> assumption that if E/A are to be allied vs G, I'm as good as gone anyway... so I
> will
> move under the assumption that this is NOT the case, and will hope for the best.
>
> Perhaps a bit of good can come out of this. England might think that
> Austria is
> his ally against me, and might tell Chris about his planned moves. Chris can
> pass
> them on to us and we can make our own moves that much more effective.
> But jeez, I wish that I was making a fleet build!
>
> Paul
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Why this?
> >
> > F Kie-Hel?
> >
> > While Austria marches into Munich? And why did you capture Marseilles with
> > Bur?
> >
> > Oh, bugger. You�re going to fight me while Austria gets 18?
> >
> > Please let us pick up where we left. Build an Army Berlin and let us work
> > together!
> >
> > /Christian
>
> Okay, I was had! Austria promised Cal and I that he would stay out of Mun
> while
> dislodging my A Sil. I would then have built a second fleet, and have been
> more
> effective in slowing your growth. The idea was for the middle (G/A/R) to play
>
> against the ends.
> Neither Cal nor I are happy about the Austrian moves, believe me! I DO
> want
> to make amends with you and get even with Chris, if it is not too late.
> If you put a fleet in Nth this Spring, and I hold in Hel, you can
> dislodge the
> German fleet in the Fall. I can retreat it otb and turn it into an army, as
> we had
> originally planned!
> Since I gained Mar but lost Mun, I don't get a build this season. Russia
> is already promising me help in getting back into Mun, but his A War is a
> little out of
> position to do that.
> I assure you that I DO NOT want to throw the game to Austria. I will
> move
> immediately to regain that dot. The F Hel will not move at all.
>
> Paul
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
A few words of "farewell" to Italy: I should be saying that "I'm sorry
to see you
go", but I'm not... so I won't.
Message from Germany to Austria and Russia in 'ruffians':
Hi guys:
With England getting two builds this season, I expect that they
will be fleets in
Edi and Lon and that they will be headed for Nth and Eng.
A Gas will be available to defend Bre when needed, but this Spring
it could try
supporting A Bur-Spa (slowing the advance of English fleets into the
Med).
Chris, if you are serious about vacating Mun for my A Sil to go
there, why not
send A Mun- Ruhr? Once England has fleets in Eng and Nth, it could
support my A Bel, or bounce Bel over Hol.
The Austrian A Gal might be a big help to Russia if it moves to Ukr
this Spring.
Cal might need the help in re-capturing Sev.
But Cal's big problem might be if Turkey sends A Sev-Mos, to cut
Russian
support for his A StP (far be it from me to mention this to Cyrilles,
but Christian
may have no such scruples).
Paul
Broadcast message from Italy in 'ruffians':
> A few words of "farewell" to Italy: I should be saying that "I'm sorry
> to see you
> go", but I'm not... so I won't.
Hey, are you leaving? :-)
The Pope
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
I am willing to work together again! (As the loss for me was nothing...)
/Christian
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Paul,
> I am willing to work together again! (As the loss for me was nothing...)
>
> /Christian
Yes, I still think that a G/E alliance is worthwhile. Austria claims that
he took
Mun, after "making a deal with me", by accident-- don't you hate it when
people
insult your intelligence and play you for a complete fool?
Even Cal is upset about the Austrian stab: his priority is to limit
the powers of
the corner powers, and he sees the G/A war as playing into his enemies'
hands. He'
is willing to hit Aust A Gal with War while I support myself back to Mun,
but that
will only drive the Austrian army into Berlin! I have requested that he
wait until
the Fall before hitting Gal, while I move A Mar-Bur and Bel-Ruhr. This will
enable me to hit Mun with two supports, plus I will be able to cover Ber
with Sil.
I am still willing to hold in Hel, while you move another fleet to
Nth: in the Fall
you can dislodge the fleet and I'll retreat it otb to be reborn as an army
(probably in
Kie).
I would imagine that you will be swinging your fleets into the Med,
i.e., F Mao-
Wms, F Spa(sc)- Gol, F Por-Spa(sc)?
If you can get the Turkish A Sev to hit Mos, the Russian support for
StP would
be cut! I don't know if Cyrilles will want to risk this, but it is worth a
try!
Cheers,
Paul
Message from Turkey to England in 'ruffians':
So, it seems that we must play. Finally you go North. You take StPet now,
and would then help me on Mos (or at least cut an eventual support in Mos).
I guess you're OK. At least you can say yes, and see later:-)
Message from England to Turkey in
'ruffians':
Salut Cyrille,
Yes, I move to NTH, and I attack StP. I hope you will cut Moscos support.
Please?
Yes, I will use my ARMY StP to help you.
/Christian
>So, it seems that we must play. Finally you go North. You take StPet now,
>and would then help me on Mos (or at least cut an eventual support in Mos).
>I guess you're OK. At least you can say yes, and see later:-)
Message from Turkey to England in 'ruffians':
>Salut Cyrille,
Hi Christian,
>
>Yes, I move to NTH, and I attack StP. I hope you will cut Moscos support.
>Please?
With respect for your efforts to speak french, I cannot say no, even if it's
no really the saftiest move for me. But I will, as it his the only chance
you can ever pass in Stp. If it goes well, as soon as Moscow will fall, the
stalemate libe had been passed for you, and all I want now is to play
AGAINST R/A!
>Yes, I will use my ARMY StP to help you.
Thanks, we'll see later.
All the best,
Cyrille.
Message from Austria to Germany and Russia in
'ruffians':
Gents,
I am glad to hear that you are on board, Paul. Cal? What do you think?
The Fleet build is in.
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
Well, I made my move a little early, but when opportunity knocks, you have
to listen!
Can we agree that you will not enter the West Med for the moment? I am
building a fleet to go finish off Turkey with, and I should think you are
going to take advantage of the timing to hit Germany where it hurts.
Let me know if you'll DMZ the westmed for now, and how you'd like to
co-ordinate the assault.
Best,
Chris
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
>Let me know if you'll DMZ the westmed for now, and how you'd like to
>co-ordinate the assault.
Well, I'll need to see what is disbanded ere I can say anything about that.
If Italy and France keeps the fleets I might want to go there with a bounce
in aim. Nevertheless, I will let you know when the builds/removals are
presented.
/Christian
Message from England to Turkey in
'ruffians':
>With respect for your efforts to speak french, I cannot say no, even if it's
>no really the saftiest move for me.
Mais biensur, je peux parle Francais tout le temp s'il te fait mieux amiable.
(oui, je sais, mon Francias est tr�s "pauvre", mais je veux esseyer...)
/Christian
Message from England to Germany and France in 'ruffians':
Hi!
We need to get an army into Piedemont supported by army Marseilles (or a
fleet in Marseilles.) Whithout that we cannot hold the stalemate if it
comes to that. I assume Paul are supporting Gas-Bur with Marseilles? If you
also move Brest-Gas you are in position to move Mar-Pie, Gas-Mar next move.
Hopefully Chris doesn't see us going for stalemates so soon. From there we
can go for Tyrolia "from beneath"...We are lucky to be on the
not-so-messy-side of the board. Anyway, I also need a fleet to NAf to keep
the stalemate (to stand in NAf supporting French F Tunis.)
Paul, why don't you move F Hel-Kie, A Kie-Berlin, A Bel-Ruh, A Gas-Bur. In
the fall you kick Austria out and are back. From there you can move on into
Pru ad build a new army and the stalmate is there. All I need to do is put
a fleet in Lvn supported by StP and we can hold there forever.
With this picture:
F:
F Tun H
E:
F NAf S FRENCH F Tun
F WES S F LYO
F LYO S A Pie
F Spa S F LYO
We can hold south forever and we are on the right side of the line...!
All we have to do is help G sort things out and we have...
Tun+Germany+Bel+Hol+Par+Bre+Mar+England+Den+Swe+Nwy+Spa+Por+StP is ....18!
I assume the game rules allows us to set a three-way beween our 18 sc?
Comments?
/Christian
***********************************************************************
Christian Dreyer och Matilda Svensson
Trollebergsv�gen 91B
SE-227 31 Lund
SK�NE
SU�DE
Ph. +46 (0)46 - 15 15 23
Pop-konto: [email protected]
***********************************************************************
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
>
> Paul, why don't you move F Hel-Kie, A Kie-Berlin, A Bel-Ruh, A Gas-Bur. In
> the fall you kick Austria out and are back. From there you can move on into
> Pru ad build a new army and the stalmate is there.
Okay, that seems to cover everything until I can recapture Mun. After I am
into
Bur and Ruhr, retaking Mun should be no big task.
>
>
> With this picture:
> F:
> F Tun H
>
> E:
> F NAf S FRENCH F Tun
> F WES S F LYO
> F LYO S A Pie
> F Spa S F LYO
>
> We can hold south forever and we are on the right side of the line...!
>
> All we have to do is help G sort things out and we have...
>
> Tun+Germany+Bel+Hol+Par+Bre+Mar+England+Den+Swe+Nwy+Spa+Por+StP is ....18!
>
> I assume the game rules allows us to set a three-way beween our 18 sc?
>
We have a right to propose and vote for a three way draw, but I believe that
A,R
and/or T still have the right to veto it and propose a DIAS, don't they?
--Paul
Message from Germany to Austria and Russia in 'ruffians':
Hi Cal and Chris:
England has written. He is willing to "forgive" my minor
transgressions if I
join a E/G/F campaign for a three way draw. His theory is that if he
holds StP,
I regain all my home dots, and he supports France in Tunis, that makes
18 total and
it entitles us to a three way draw. Wouldn't you guys still be able to
veto the
proposal and insist on a DIAS if there is a east/west stalemate line
established?
This seems overly timid to me. I'd rather work towards a G/A/R,
eliminating
the small fry (F, I, T) at least.
Christian mentions going for Lvn this season (with a fleet!), while
encouraging
me to cover Ber, Ruh, Bur and Pie. He intends to move fleets to Wms and
Gol.
Paul
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
>We have a right to propose and vote for a three way draw, but I believe that
>A,R
>and/or T still have the right to veto it and propose a DIAS, don't they?
Then we have to let Chris kill Russia and Turkey and me taking Tun and have
threeway that way. That's a later question. (We could also go for a 17-17
G-E but I guess that would be a bit difficult given the current
situation...As long as we are on the side with 18 sc we can always press a
situation were we either win or are withing the draw.
/Christian
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
>
> >We have a right to propose and vote for a three way draw, but I believe that
> >A,R
> >and/or T still have the right to veto it and propose a DIAS, don't they?
>
> Then we have to let Chris kill Russia and Turkey and me taking Tun and have
> threeway that way. That's a later question. (We could also go for a 17-17
> G-E but I guess that would be a bit difficult given the current
> situation...As long as we are on the side with 18 sc we can always press a
> situation were we either win or are withing the draw.
>
> /Christian
Yes, if we have 18 between us and they cannot crack our stalemate line, we are
definitely to be counted amongst the winners. First we establish the line, make
it
impenetrable, and then it is up to Chris to see if the "small fry" can be
eliminated.
The role of Cal in all of this is yet to be foreseen.
Paul
Message from Turkey to England in 'ruffians':
>Mais biensur, je peux parle Francais tout le temp s'il te fait mieux
>amiable.
>
>(oui, je sais, mon Francias est tr�s "pauvre", mais je veux esseyer...)
>
>/Christian
Thanks Christian, on the delicate points, we'll keep english, but else, why
not trying Moliere's language.
Best,
cyrille
Message from France to Austria in 'ruffians':
I thought you might enjoy seeing this, i have no idea what is in England's
head such that he thinks like this! But it was worth a smile
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 8:22 PM
Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Germany and
> France in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Hi!
>
> We need to get an army into Piedemont supported by army Marseilles (or a
> fleet in Marseilles.) Whithout that we cannot hold the stalemate if it
> comes to that. I assume Paul are supporting Gas-Bur with Marseilles? If
you
> also move Brest-Gas you are in position to move Mar-Pie, Gas-Mar next
move.
> Hopefully Chris doesn't see us going for stalemates so soon. From there we
> can go for Tyrolia "from beneath"...We are lucky to be on the
> not-so-messy-side of the board. Anyway, I also need a fleet to NAf to keep
> the stalemate (to stand in NAf supporting French F Tunis.)
>
> Paul, why don't you move F Hel-Kie, A Kie-Berlin, A Bel-Ruh, A Gas-Bur. In
> the fall you kick Austria out and are back. From there you can move on
into
> Pru ad build a new army and the stalmate is there. All I need to do is put
> a fleet in Lvn supported by StP and we can hold there forever.
>
> With this picture:
> F:
> F Tun H
>
> E:
> F NAf S FRENCH F Tun
> F WES S F LYO
> F LYO S A Pie
> F Spa S F LYO
>
> We can hold south forever and we are on the right side of the line...!
>
> All we have to do is help G sort things out and we have...
>
> Tun+Germany+Bel+Hol+Par+Bre+Mar+England+Den+Swe+Nwy+Spa+Por+StP is ....18!
>
> I assume the game rules allows us to set a three-way beween our 18 sc?
>
> Comments?
>
> /Christian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***********************************************************************
> Christian Dreyer och Matilda Svensson
> Trollebergsv�gen 91B
> SE-227 31 Lund
> SK�NE
> SU�DE
> Ph. +46 (0)46 - 15 15 23
> Pop-konto: [email protected]
> ***********************************************************************
>
Message from France to England in 'ruffians':
> All we have to do is help G sort things out and we have...
>
> Tun+Germany+Bel+Hol+Par+Bre+Mar+England+Den+Swe+Nwy+Spa+Por+StP is ....18!
>
> I assume the game rules allows us to set a three-way beween our 18 sc?
>
> Comments?
other than the obvious lack of reason for me to help Germany do *anything*,
I want to be sure I understand what you are asking: are you asking that if
we three can sit on 18 then we can declare a 3way draw? Then the answer is
"no": a draw includes all the survivors. I think if you want a three way you
are going to have to look to the trio being England + Austria + Turkey.
It's the only one where all 3 of you can work together without the threat of
any one getting a solo, and it gives both Austria and England room to grow
towards the center.
If you continue to try and keep Germany as an ally, then I fear you will end
up with 4-way or a 5-way. It will take you too long to get around the edges
and by that time a solid pair in the East will appear. Chris (Austria) is
too good a player not to know what to do and to give Turkey and even Russia
to make sure that E/G do not enter the east before he can control the
outcome.